Forgive any spelling issues here friend - Bad sinus issues = worse than usual spelling
Revelation 20:1 states he is an angel though. Alaris just laid out a pretty ironclad case who Abaddon is. Not much to argue with there in my opinion. Not much to add either so I’m keeping it short.
Sometimes I forget the end summary.
Where is it written only Jesus can send devils into the Abyss? Nowhere. His Apostles cast out evil spirits....and to where are they cast?righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 2:36 am Luke 8:29-31
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he (Jesus) would not command them to go out into the deep. Or Abyss.
Rev 9:1
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to the angel was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 20:1
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
So Jesus, himself, can command evil spirits into the abyss which verse 31 clearly proves.
Again, here is the Lord smiting the first born in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
29 ¶ And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
Exodus 13:15
15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
It is the Lord that slew the firstborn in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
Alaris, I give you credit for saying that Abaddon is not an evil being. This much we agree on. I never said he was or ever hinted as such. But, in being the Holy Ghost, never. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost, yet he could have sent Legion into the abyss.
Apollyon
Destroyer, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word Abaddon, or “Destruction”; in Rev. 9:11 it is the name of the Angel of the Abyss (bottomless pit) made familiar to English readers by Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress.
Abaddon is the name of an angel directed by Jesus. He is the destroyer.
Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
So we agree that Abaddon = Jehovah/Christ = DestroyerAlaris wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 10:53 amWhere is it written only Jesus can send devils into the Abyss? Nowhere. His Apostles cast out evil spirits....and to where are they cast? Not the abyss. Casting out devils is not the same as sending them to a bottomless pit. Christ said "get thee hence, Satan" when Satan was tempting him in Matt 4:10. I, myself, have cast out devils.righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 2:36 am Luke 8:29-31
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he (Jesus) would not command them to go out into the deep. Or Abyss.
Rev 9:1
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to the angel was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 20:1
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
So Jesus, himself, can command evil spirits into the abyss which verse 31 clearly proves.
Again, here is the Lord smiting the first born in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
29 ¶ And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
Exodus 13:15
15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
It is the Lord that slew the firstborn in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
Alaris, I give you credit for saying that Abaddon is not an evil being. This much we agree on. I never said he was or ever hinted as such. But, in being the Holy Ghost, never. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost, yet he could have sent Legion into the abyss.
Apollyon
Destroyer, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word Abaddon, or “Destruction”; in Rev. 9:11 it is the name of the Angel of the Abyss (bottomless pit) made familiar to English readers by Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress.
Abaddon is the name of an angel directed by Jesus. He is the destroyer.
Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Christ has the power to send Lucifer to the abyss. He doesn't need any help, either.
Jesus gives keys to His servants all the time... This is how men learn to become Gods. We are all little gods right now. We will become greater gods, those of us who become heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
Psalm 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Doctrine and Covenants 88:29
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
Romans 8:16,17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Merry Christmas Righteous Republic. Give a read of all of D&C 1 and see if you can see this great mystery on full display. The voice of Jehovah is speaking. He is the same individual who is called "The arm of the Lord" and the arm of the Lord swings the sword of justice. The sword of Spirit. The Destroyer.
If one scripture says Jesus has the ability to send demons to the abyss and another says His angel has the keys.... Does Jesus lose His power when He shares His power and keys with His servants?righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 1:50 pmSo we agree that Abaddon = Jehovah/Christ = DestroyerAlaris wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 10:53 amWhere is it written only Jesus can send devils into the Abyss? Nowhere. His Apostles cast out evil spirits....and to where are they cast? Not the abyss. Casting out devils is not the same as sending them to a bottomless pit. Christ said "get thee hence, Satan" when Satan was tempting him in Matt 4:10. I, myself, have cast out devils.righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 2:36 am Luke 8:29-31
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he (Jesus) would not command them to go out into the deep. Or Abyss.
Rev 9:1
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to the angel was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 20:1
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
So Jesus, himself, can command evil spirits into the abyss which verse 31 clearly proves.
Again, here is the Lord smiting the first born in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
29 ¶ And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
Exodus 13:15
15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
It is the Lord that slew the firstborn in Egypt, not the Holy Ghost.
Alaris, I give you credit for saying that Abaddon is not an evil being. This much we agree on. I never said he was or ever hinted as such. But, in being the Holy Ghost, never. Jesus is not the Holy Ghost, yet he could have sent Legion into the abyss.
Apollyon
Destroyer, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word Abaddon, or “Destruction”; in Rev. 9:11 it is the name of the Angel of the Abyss (bottomless pit) made familiar to English readers by Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress.
Abaddon is the name of an angel directed by Jesus. He is the destroyer.
Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Christ has the power to send Lucifer to the abyss. He doesn't need any help, either.
Jesus gives keys to His servants all the time... This is how men learn to become Gods. We are all little gods right now. We will become greater gods, those of us who become heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
Psalm 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Doctrine and Covenants 88:29
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
Romans 8:16,17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Merry Christmas Righteous Republic. Give a read of all of D&C 1 and see if you can see this great mystery on full display. The voice of Jehovah is speaking. He is the same individual who is called "The arm of the Lord" and the arm of the Lord swings the sword of justice. The sword of Spirit. The Destroyer.
Exodus 15:3
3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.
1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
D&C 1:38Alaris wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 3:20 pmTake a look at the intro to D&C 61. For years I thought the "destroyer" was the devil. Nope. Agreed
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1?lang=eng
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on the bank of the Missouri River, McIlwaine’s Bend, August 12, 1831. On their return trip to Kirtland, the Prophet and ten elders had traveled down the Missouri River in canoes. On the third day of the journey, many dangers were experienced. Elder William W. Phelps, in a daylight vision, saw the destroyer riding in power upon the face of the waters.
Look at verse 5 -6.
5 For I, the Lord, have decreed in mine anger many destructions upon the waters; yea, and especially upon these waters.
6 Nevertheless, all flesh is in mine hand, and he that is faithful among you shall not perish by the waters.
Bonus verse:
28 Wherefore, let him do as the Spirit of the living God commandeth him, whether upon the land or upon the waters, as it remaineth with me to do hereafter.
Could not have said that better myself - I hope your day is going swimminglyrighteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 4:58 pmD&C 1:38Alaris wrote: ↑December 25th, 2019, 3:20 pmTake a look at the intro to D&C 61. For years I thought the "destroyer" was the devil. Nope. Agreed
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1?lang=eng
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on the bank of the Missouri River, McIlwaine’s Bend, August 12, 1831. On their return trip to Kirtland, the Prophet and ten elders had traveled down the Missouri River in canoes. On the third day of the journey, many dangers were experienced. Elder William W. Phelps, in a daylight vision, saw the destroyer riding in power upon the face of the waters.
Look at verse 5 -6.
5 For I, the Lord, have decreed in mine anger many destructions upon the waters; yea, and especially upon these waters.
6 Nevertheless, all flesh is in mine hand, and he that is faithful among you shall not perish by the waters.
Bonus verse:
28 Wherefore, let him do as the Spirit of the living God commandeth him, whether upon the land or upon the waters, as it remaineth with me to do hereafter.
38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
Jesus can send whomever to the abyss, or he can employ a servant/angel to do so, having been given the keys by Christ....it is the same.
Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 4:09 pm I did not say that Jesus was one of the 7 Spirits of God. I said that he is a Spirit of God that was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. I said that there are 8 spirits of God. People read Hebrews and believe that the angels being talked about are just any angels. Those are the Spirits of God that were from before the creation. Jesus was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. Jesus was given the keys of life. But, we need to be more technical. Jesus was not Jesus the man until he incarnated. Jesus was the Christ Spirit. It was the Christ Spirit that the Father breathed into Adam. Adam was not Jesus though. Adam was Adam having the Christ Spirit within. Jesus is Jesus having a very large portion of the Christ Spirit. We are all ourselves born with a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit. That is the kingdom of God within us. That is the Christ within. It was sown in us from our parents. Ultimately it came from Adam. When a couple has a child:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die (transform):
15:37 And that which thou sowest (at conception) , thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name (identity) remain.
righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 9:27 pmMichael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 4:09 pm I did not say that Jesus was one of the 7 Spirits of God. I said that he is a Spirit of God that was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. I said that there are 8 spirits of God. People read Hebrews and believe that the angels being talked about are just any angels. Those are the Spirits of God that were from before the creation. Jesus was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. Jesus was given the keys of life. But, we need to be more technical. Jesus was not Jesus the man until he incarnated. Jesus was the Christ Spirit. It was the Christ Spirit that the Father breathed into Adam. Adam was not Jesus though. Adam was Adam having the Christ Spirit within. Jesus is Jesus having a very large portion of the Christ Spirit. We are all ourselves born with a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit. That is the kingdom of God within us. That is the Christ within. It was sown in us from our parents. Ultimately it came from Adam. When a couple has a child:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die (transform):
15:37 And that which thou sowest (at conception) , thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name (identity) remain.
As Joseph Smith pointed out, there are not seven spirits of God, there are seven servants of God, a very different understanding of scripture. Christ is the firstborn spirit of God named Jehovah.
Adam is the name of the body of flesh that Michael, the archangel was born into. Michael is and has always been subordinate to Jesus/Jehovah. Michael helped in the creation of the world and was not an exalted being.
Christ is the body of the spirit Jehovah as explained in Mosiah 15:1-5
The kingdom of God is not within us, it is among us.
JST, Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, Lo, there! For, behold, the kingdom of God has already come unto you.
IMO, if we're going to teach from scripture, it is best done with proper research and better understanding of exactly what is written. Joseph Smith made clarifications so we can get the proper understanding.
I have found that the Savior is referred to by one hundred different names—from the first reference to him as “Lord” in 1 Nephi 1:1 [1 Ne. 1:1] to the final reference to him as “the Eternal Judge” in Moroni 10:34. [Moro. 10:34] (See Table 2.) Each of the one hundred names signifies a different attribute or characteristic of the Lord and was used appropriately to convey the prophets’ recognition of who he is and what his mission represents. For example, “Savior” means that Christ came to save his people from their sins. “Holy One” signifies that he is holy and without sin, being perfect in all things. “God of the Whole Earth” reflects his universal interest in all men and their redemption. “Lord of Hosts” indicates that Christ is a God of battles. And “Lord Omnipotent” means that Christ is the Lord of all, possessing all power. The names given to our Lord take on new significance when they are approached through a thoughtful and sensitive study of their meanings. His profound character, his singular mission, and his divine relationship to man are thereby more clearly revealed.
Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 28th, 2019, 9:47 amrighteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 9:27 pmMichael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 4:09 pm I did not say that Jesus was one of the 7 Spirits of God. I said that he is a Spirit of God that was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. I said that there are 8 spirits of God. People read Hebrews and believe that the angels being talked about are just any angels. Those are the Spirits of God that were from before the creation. Jesus was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. Jesus was given the keys of life. But, we need to be more technical. Jesus was not Jesus the man until he incarnated. Jesus was the Christ Spirit. It was the Christ Spirit that the Father breathed into Adam. Adam was not Jesus though. Adam was Adam having the Christ Spirit within. Jesus is Jesus having a very large portion of the Christ Spirit. We are all ourselves born with a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit. That is the kingdom of God within us. That is the Christ within. It was sown in us from our parents. Ultimately it came from Adam. When a couple has a child:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die (transform):
15:37 And that which thou sowest (at conception) , thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name (identity) remain.
As Joseph Smith pointed out, there are not seven spirits of God, there are seven servants of God, a very different understanding of scripture. Christ is the firstborn spirit of God named Jehovah.
Adam is the name of the body of flesh that Michael, the archangel was born into. Michael is and has always been subordinate to Jesus/Jehovah. Michael helped in the creation of the world and was not an exalted being.
Christ is the body of the spirit Jehovah as explained in Mosiah 15:1-5
The kingdom of God is not within us, it is among us.
JST, Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, Lo, there! For, behold, the kingdom of God has already come unto you.
IMO, if we're going to teach from scripture, it is best done with proper research and better understanding of exactly what is written. Joseph Smith made clarifications so we can get the proper understanding.
People think one dimensionally. They understand one dimensionally. Michael as used in Daniel, Revelation and Jude is not a name. There is no Archangel named Michael. It is a description:
One, "who is like unto God" is the great prince.
One, "who is like unto God" contested over the body of Moses.
One, "who is like unto God" cast the dragon to the earth.
One, "who is like unto God" became Adam.
"of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
"and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us"
The personage we call Jesus has that name in our scriptures. His name isn't Jesus. His name is not Emmanuel. His name isn't Christ. The letter J was not even invented until the 1500's.
Susan Ward Easton:I have found that the Savior is referred to by one hundred different names—from the first reference to him as “Lord” in 1 Nephi 1:1 [1 Ne. 1:1] to the final reference to him as “the Eternal Judge” in Moroni 10:34. [Moro. 10:34] (See Table 2.) Each of the one hundred names signifies a different attribute or characteristic of the Lord and was used appropriately to convey the prophets’ recognition of who he is and what his mission represents. For example, “Savior” means that Christ came to save his people from their sins. “Holy One” signifies that he is holy and without sin, being perfect in all things. “God of the Whole Earth” reflects his universal interest in all men and their redemption. “Lord of Hosts” indicates that Christ is a God of battles. And “Lord Omnipotent” means that Christ is the Lord of all, possessing all power. The names given to our Lord take on new significance when they are approached through a thoughtful and sensitive study of their meanings. His profound character, his singular mission, and his divine relationship to man are thereby more clearly revealed.
So how is it that the name "Jesus" was on the Golden Plates? It would not have been. It could not have been. So Joseph Smith when translating the plates kept his real name as recorded in the plates from us. Did he ever mention the name for Jesus that was on the plates? English people will run up to "Jesus" one day yelling "Jesus , Jesus" and he'll say to them "Jesus, who is that". So why are people so hung up with the notion that Michael is the actual name of a heavenly being when all it means is one, "who is like unto God". From one little lack of understanding flows a river of error.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
2Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice: The Bible does not teach Jesus within us. It teaches CHRIST within us. Jesus was called the Christ because of the Christ Spirit that indwelt him. The Christ Spirit is the kingdom of heaven within us. We get a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit when we are born. It comes to us from what was breathed into Adam. One, "who is like unto God" was breathed into Adam. It was not Jesus. It was the Christ Spirit. There is a difference.
righteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 28th, 2019, 12:01 pmMichael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 28th, 2019, 9:47 amrighteousrepublic wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 9:27 pmMichael Sherwin wrote: ↑December 27th, 2019, 4:09 pm I did not say that Jesus was one of the 7 Spirits of God. I said that he is a Spirit of God that was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. I said that there are 8 spirits of God. People read Hebrews and believe that the angels being talked about are just any angels. Those are the Spirits of God that were from before the creation. Jesus was made better than the other 7 Spirits of God. Jesus was given the keys of life. But, we need to be more technical. Jesus was not Jesus the man until he incarnated. Jesus was the Christ Spirit. It was the Christ Spirit that the Father breathed into Adam. Adam was not Jesus though. Adam was Adam having the Christ Spirit within. Jesus is Jesus having a very large portion of the Christ Spirit. We are all ourselves born with a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit. That is the kingdom of God within us. That is the Christ within. It was sown in us from our parents. Ultimately it came from Adam. When a couple has a child:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die (transform):
15:37 And that which thou sowest (at conception) , thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name (identity) remain.
As Joseph Smith pointed out, there are not seven spirits of God, there are seven servants of God, a very different understanding of scripture. Christ is the firstborn spirit of God named Jehovah.
Adam is the name of the body of flesh that Michael, the archangel was born into. Michael is and has always been subordinate to Jesus/Jehovah. Michael helped in the creation of the world and was not an exalted being.
Christ is the body of the spirit Jehovah as explained in Mosiah 15:1-5
The kingdom of God is not within us, it is among us.
JST, Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, Lo, there! For, behold, the kingdom of God has already come unto you.
IMO, if we're going to teach from scripture, it is best done with proper research and better understanding of exactly what is written. Joseph Smith made clarifications so we can get the proper understanding.
People think one dimensionally. They understand one dimensionally. Michael as used in Daniel, Revelation and Jude is not a name. There is no Archangel named Michael. It is a description:
One, "who is like unto God" is the great prince.
One, "who is like unto God" contested over the body of Moses.
One, "who is like unto God" cast the dragon to the earth.
One, "who is like unto God" became Adam.
"of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
"and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us"
The personage we call Jesus has that name in our scriptures. His name isn't Jesus. His name is not Emmanuel. His name isn't Christ. The letter J was not even invented until the 1500's.
Susan Ward Easton:I have found that the Savior is referred to by one hundred different names—from the first reference to him as “Lord” in 1 Nephi 1:1 [1 Ne. 1:1] to the final reference to him as “the Eternal Judge” in Moroni 10:34. [Moro. 10:34] (See Table 2.) Each of the one hundred names signifies a different attribute or characteristic of the Lord and was used appropriately to convey the prophets’ recognition of who he is and what his mission represents. For example, “Savior” means that Christ came to save his people from their sins. “Holy One” signifies that he is holy and without sin, being perfect in all things. “God of the Whole Earth” reflects his universal interest in all men and their redemption. “Lord of Hosts” indicates that Christ is a God of battles. And “Lord Omnipotent” means that Christ is the Lord of all, possessing all power. The names given to our Lord take on new significance when they are approached through a thoughtful and sensitive study of their meanings. His profound character, his singular mission, and his divine relationship to man are thereby more clearly revealed.
So how is it that the name "Jesus" was on the Golden Plates? It would not have been. It could not have been. So Joseph Smith when translating the plates kept his real name as recorded in the plates from us. Did he ever mention the name for Jesus that was on the plates? English people will run up to "Jesus" one day yelling "Jesus , Jesus" and he'll say to them "Jesus, who is that". So why are people so hung up with the notion that Michael is the actual name of a heavenly being when all it means is one, "who is like unto God". From one little lack of understanding flows a river of error.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
2Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice: The Bible does not teach Jesus within us. It teaches CHRIST within us. Jesus was called the Christ because of the Christ Spirit that indwelt him. The Christ Spirit is the kingdom of heaven within us. We get a mustard seed size portion of the Christ Spirit when we are born. It comes to us from what was breathed into Adam. One, "who is like unto God" was breathed into Adam. It was not Jesus. It was the Christ Spirit. There is a difference.
If you believe what you have posted, more power to you. I haven't the inclination to go through and correct errors in this particular paradigm. Are you even LDS?
Alaris wrote: ↑December 24th, 2019, 8:23 pmForgive any spelling issues here friend - Bad sinus issues = worse than usual spelling
Abbadon is the Angel of the Lord. This wikipedia post is borderline hilarious, as you can see there are some Christians who believe Abaddon is the devil, and some believe he is an Angel of God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon
To the above entry's great credit, there is a decent section on The Discourse on Abbaton, though they cite the original transcriber rather than the title of the work for some reason. This is the apocryphal book that Hugh Nibley said has, "unusually good credentials." In the work, the Lord gives a final sermon to his apostles. "Any last questions before I go?" is essentially what the Lord asks. Peter answers, "Yeah, who is the angel Abaddon and why did you make him so awful?"
The Lord's answer is essentially, "Let me tell you about how the Father made Abaddon King of this world." We're not talking about an evil king but a righteous one. The story is incredible, and highly davidic, and confirms many modern revelations including a premortal existence and a covenant at the beginning between Father, Son, and Testator.
How could The Holy Ghost and Abbadon be the same person? Well, how can you say they're not if you think Jesus might be one of His own angels? Amazing how many folks can tell you what the mysteries aren't. So incredible that folks can know so very much as to know what the mysteries can't be. (lol .. *ahem* OK.)
How can the Holy Ghost be the Destroyer? Easy. the High Priest of Israel is the answer. The Angel of the Lord - the solitary angel who bears the ineffable name (Exodus 23) who led Israel to safety from Egypt is in fact the same angel who killed the firstborn of Egypt.
Exodus 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Modern revelation confirms a single angel was sent forth to be an enemy to the enemies of Israel. And what did the Angel do to the firstborn of Egypt and to the 185,000 Assyrians? That's right - he destroyed them. The Lord refers to this selfsame angel as the Destroyer (Abaddon in Hebrew) in modern revelation
D&C 89:20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
Is this the devil? Nope - this is the angel the Lord promised would destroy the enemies of Israel. He's in the Lord's employ. He's not the Lord, and he's not the devil lol. How this remains a mystery to so many is itself a mystery. Let's do a quick play:
God: "Hey Israel I've got this one angel who will destroy all your enemies. Just this one guy."
Modern revelation: "Yep - there was one single angel sent before Israel."
Us: "Who's Abaddon?"
Let's focus on three aspects of the Destroyer:
1. Destruction
2. Voice of the Lord
3. Resurrection
1 is super duper obvious. Even reading through that wikipedia article is extremely curious to watch this spirit of deep sleep in play - how on Earth do the folks writing the article not see that this one single Angel doing the acts of the destruction is the same guy. I mean, it's almost as if this guy could one day claim to have been alone in his acts of destruction - probably more flowery scriptural language like executing the fierceness and wrath of the almighty God and maybe a nice metaphor like squishing grapes.
Back to the voice of the Lord for a moment. The Angel of the Lord (same guy) tells Moses that Aaron will be to Moses a mouth and Moses will be to Aaron a God. That's right - the voice of Jehovah - who speaks for Jehovah allllll the way up through Revelation and beyond - (hint "voice of Jehovah" is one of his titles) tells Moses that Aaron is Moses' voice. What is Aaron? That's right High Priest of Israel.
So Moses is to Jehovah as Aaron is to the Angel of the Lord - the voice of Jehovah. The Holy Ghost wouldn't be the voice of Jehovah and speak for Him right? I mean He wouldn't testify of the Lord's words to all of us - that doesn't sound very Holy Ghosty does it?
Sorry RR - you wanted to start a thread on Abaddon so, well, here you go lol.
So the office of High Priest of Israel overtly points right back to the Angel of the Lord. This is the office of mouthpiece or messenger of salvation. Is this the only role of the High Priest of Israel?
The law was given under Aaron for the purpose of pouring out Judments and destructions. ~ Joseph Smith 1843
https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/words-jose ... /27-august
But there isn't anything in the scriptures about the Holy Ghost dealing out judgement and destruction right?
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Whoopsie! How many folks talk about the Holy Ghost reproving the world? Well, Isaiah days. In fact, Isaiah records the fact that the Lord tells the servant of Isaiah (the Davidic Servant) that he is in fact that same angel who led Israel. l mean, He just comes out and says it. "Hey you're that angel who led Israel."
Isaiah 51:9 ¶ Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
So the end times, mortal king david is the Angel of the Lord - the Destroyer. The Messenger of Salvation. There is such an overt connection between John 16 and Isaiah 11, that only a spirit of deep sleep could have prevented us from making this connection:
Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Wait ... wait.... the Davidic Servant - the Rod of Jesse (D&C 113 says the stem is Christ and the Rod is a servant in the hands of Christ) will slay the wicked? *GASP* That sounds an awful lot like Abaddon doesn't it? I mean Abaddon just means "Destroyer."
So the High Priest of Israel is the spokesman (I almost wrote spokesperson lol) and the Priesthood of Aaron is for judgement (both in John 16 / Isaiah 11) and destruction (Destroyer-ing.)
Any keys the Lord relegates to His servants, He Himself of course maintains a copy (lol.) But this Abaddon does in fact have the keys of Death and Hell in Revelation.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
So the Holy Ghost imprisons the devil? Wow, who knew?
And what does it mean to possess the keys of death? Hrm ......... hrm ....
Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Might that be the keys of resurrection? But wait, wouldn't there be scriptures about this angel sounding the trump of resurrection? Oh wait, what's this?
D&C 88:94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.
97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up
Wow - this "angel" sounds the destruction (there's that word again - what a coincidence amirite?) of the mother of abominations AND he calls forth the first resurrection?
This same angel is mentioned in Revelation 18:
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
With violence? Many that sounds very Destroyer-y doesn't it?
If this is all true, wouldn't the Lord Jehovah say something along these lines to His beloved servant? Oh wait, what's this?
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
If you look up the Hebrew word "alay" represented by "is upon me" has many alternate meanings that very well suggest this is a title "unto" the servant. He is the Spirit of the Lord - the Lord's anointed heir who carries the ineffable name, whose charge has been to be both His voice and mete out the lesser role among the Gods of judgement and destruction. Yet still, the keys of death and hell (yom kippur - day of atonement) are given him as he summons forth the first resurrection, proclaiming liberty to the captives, whose captivity is represented by physical death whereas Jesus' liberty is from spiritual death. The Greater and Lesser Gods. The Greater and Lesser High Priests of the two Priesthoods.
In the "Discourse on Abbaton," Abaddon is the one who raises the dead in the valley of Jehoshaphat - which is the same valley Ezekiel saw just before going on and on about the ... you guessed it - Davidic Servant.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 7?lang=eng
Full Breakdown of the Discourse on Abbaton
Abaddon means "Destroyer" but what does he Destroy? Is he a Decepticon or an Autobot?TheDuke wrote: ↑August 15th, 2022, 7:23 pm Alaris: I have to admit that I have learned a great deal from you're writings. Or should I say the spirit taught me the mysteries after I opened the door to them partially via your works. I am very, very grateful to you for that. However, I will admit that know that I have learned much about a few things, I don't follow your comments here at all. I've tried to read this topic of writings from your past, but either don't get it at all, or don't agree. Not saying your are either correct or not, but I don't get the truths here or the logical connections. Perhaps it just isn't one of the mysteries opened to me, but the logic doesn't seem to flow for me at all. Perhaps you could concisely explain why you think the HG is as you state. thanks.
In truth what you mean is when you declare yourself as THE holy ghost we need to follow you, obey you, and worship you as THE holy ghost or you will destroy us?Alaris wrote: ↑August 17th, 2022, 8:57 pmAbaddon means "Destroyer" but what does he Destroy. Is he a Decepticon or an Autobot?TheDuke wrote: ↑August 15th, 2022, 7:23 pm Alaris: I have to admit that I have learned a great deal from you're writings. Or should I say the spirit taught me the mysteries after I opened the door to them partially via your works. I am very, very grateful to you for that. However, I will admit that know that I have learned much about a few things, I don't follow your comments here at all. I've tried to read this topic of writings from your past, but either don't get it at all, or don't agree. Not saying your are either correct or not, but I don't get the truths here or the logical connections. Perhaps it just isn't one of the mysteries opened to me, but the logic doesn't seem to flow for me at all. Perhaps you could concisely explain why you think the HG is as you state. thanks.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
He's a King - he is a Angel of the bottomless pit - but still nothing makes him good or bad. Let read on:
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
This is slightly sketchy, however I know the truth because Jesus last teaching is "Discourse on Abaddon" (or Abbaton.) There is an Angel who plays in both Revelation chapters 9 and 20 - it's the same Angel (well he plays everywhere - the Holy Ghost) in both places. This here is the good King Abaddon who take the Satan and throws him in the bottomless pit. The Holy Ghost is King Abaddon...the third in our Godhead.
This is my own, very special, blog - and on it I have "The Discourse of Abbaton"
http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... baton.html
Did I miss anything, TheDuke? Joseph Smith repeated himself that there are three Godheads.
The Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
And I believe that the third member has been hidden because 2/3 of the plates have been hidden from us.
Here is another - Jesus Christ (the Anointed one) speaks of the other Godhead, The Holy Ghost.
43 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled and be very high.
44 As many were astonished at thee—his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men—
45 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him, for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
Jesus of a prophecy that occurs near the end - the 2/3 sealed plates of the Holy Ghost.
This stuff is everywhere - in the Apocrypha as well. It's in the D&C too - some of it lies in a key.
D&C 85:6 Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:
7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
Another
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?
47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.
This isn't Mr. Perfect - This is Righteousness. This is not Jesus friends, it is The Holy Ghost - all must be baptized and received the Holy Ghost to be a member ... A member of his ... well ... The Holy Ghost. If you don't get in ... well. Get in.
When the Holy Ghost reveals himself - get on the train. (Matthew 24 / Joseph Smith Matthew)
