Pay your tithing, Obey Authority

[Thinker]

This probably has zero to do with what you were thinking, but the apostles get free housing and free food - not just the bare necessities, but the highest quality they can get, I'm told - and they are exempt from paying tithing. They live pretty high on the hog on the welfare they get.

I don't believe that any of the Apostles get free housing or free food. They get a generous salary or stipend and insurance benefits commensurate with working for a corporation, but I believe they manage their own financial affairs beyond that. I know Brother Bednar gets food at Costco now and then. Many of them own very nice homes in close proximity to one another north of Salt Lake City. Most of them were quite well-to-do before they were even called to be Apostles, so the Church stipend is probably just pin money to them anyway. They won't get rich, nor stay rich, off of it.

How do you know?
You don’t - because despite receiving sacred tithes and demanding members be subject to inquiry in tithing settlements and temple recommend interviews, they are dishonest and keep money secret.

I do know - because my husband worked for the church - that they order all kinds of special food requests - and they paid no money - it was simply ordered and taken to them.

I did not realize they got free lunch everyday in the Church Office Building. That's a nice perk, and one which some better companies have been known to provide for their Executives. I know the Nauvoo Cafe on the bottom floor of the Joseph Smith Building makes great lunches and often prepares lunches for the GA's.

No, it wasn’t a meal - it was groceries.

[ChooseTruth]

largerthanlife wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:01 pm
Do people on welfare pay tithing? Free housing and free food but they don't pay any tithing?

This probably has zero to do with what you were thinking, but the apostles get free housing and free food - not just the bare necessities, but the highest quality they can get, I'm told - and they are exempt from paying tithing. They live pretty high on the hog on the welfare they get.

I don't believe that any of the Apostles get free housing or free food. They get a generous salary or stipend and insurance benefits commensurate with working for a corporation, but I believe they manage their own financial affairs beyond that. I know Brother Bednar gets food at Costco now and then. Many of them own very nice homes in close proximity to one another north of Salt Lake City. Most of them were quite well-to-do before they were even called to be Apostles, so the Church stipend is probably just pin money to them anyway. They won't get rich, nor stay rich, off of it.

While I don’t agree with the conclusions of this blog, it does a good job of revealing how GA’s, mission presidents and temple presidents are paid. It show that all expenses for almost everything conceivable are covered plus the 130-140,000 “modest living allowance.” My understanding is that the living allowance for the 15 is higher. For with the reimbursements plus the living allowance, health insurance etc., most GA’s receive total comp in the 250-350,000 range and they do not pay tithing on it. This is also not a recent development.

https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2014 ... t.html?m=1

[righteousrepublic]

Tithe

The word denotes a tenth part, given for the service of God. The first recorded instance is the payment made by Abraham to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:20; Heb. 7:4–10). See also Jacob’s vow (Gen. 28:22). The law enforced the payment and provided rules with regard to the use to which the tithe should be put. In Num. 18:21–28 it is directed that tithe be paid to the Levites, who in their turn give one-tenth of what they receive to the priests.

A clear exposition of the tithe is given in Mal. 3:8–18, in which it is shown that blessings from the payment of tithing are both temporal and spiritual, and failure to pay an honest tithe is a form of robbery. The importance of Malachi’s words is demonstrated by the fact that the Lord repeated them to the Nephites (see 3 Ne. 24).

Latter-day revelation emphasizes the law of the tithe as a duty and a test of faithfulness (D&C 64:23–25; 85:3; 97:11; 119). The honest payment of tithing sanctifies both the individual and the land on which he lives. See also Lev. 27:30–34; Deut. 12:5–18; 14:22–27; 2 Chr. 31:5–12; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12.
.............................................................................................................................................
Also, when one takes the Lord's money and spends it on what they think the Lord is okay with they are, likewise, stealing the money from the Lord. It's not up to us to spend His money however we want even if it is for the poor. When we decide to give to the poor, the money used should be up and away from the Lord's money.

[tdj]

"If a destitute family is faced with a decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing."

So says the fat man

It would be nice to have one laymen among the brethren. Just one who actually knows what it is like and truly represents the poor. Problem is none of them have any experience with being poor so they are clueless for the most part. I always shake my head when a rich man who has been spoon fed his whole life talks about the poor.

True, and I kind of wondered at that also. But I can see them being really picky on who gets to be the leaders of the church. Historically, the poor, at least in our society, tend to be that way because they made bad choices. I can totally understand the church not wanting a bunch of inept idiots running things.
The closest we have to a leader that faced real hardships is Uchtdorf, and that was as a child. He has memories no doubt, but when he got older, he made right choices that led him to where he's at today. I think that, along with his temperment, is why he's so popular among the lds crowd.
But yes, we need someone who's been there, and who's made bad choices and brought themselves up thru the grace of God. We don't really have that today. We have good men who have been sheltered and caccooned their entire lives from the effects of bad choices, and who, for the most part, never knew what it was like to have a crappy parent.

[Lexew1899]

Hopefully it's addressed soon.

It is not addressed... there are chronic, unaddressed hunger issues both in the world at large AND among the LDS. Go to Bountiful's website and you'll see more need than any one of us normal folk can address. Don't let that discourage you to the point of inaction. Tithe there, in lieu of the LDS church. Adopt a stake for a year. Form a group and adopt a stake. Make a recurring monthly donation that fits your capacity. This charity is the real deal - they do good with their donations now, rather than socking them away for a future need.

If you need an example, I quit paying the church 5 years ago, but we have maintained charitable giving at gross tithing levels. My income has increased threefold, we've had no lessening of the intangible blessings from heaven, and we have contentment in our decisions. I will stand at judgment day with clean hands in this regard.

I think your charitable giving is generous and very Christ-like, but because it is not given directly through the Church's designated channels, they probably won't let you have a Temple Recommend, and you probably aren't on the records of the Church as a full tithe payer. That would cause me some worry in these latter-days.

You are correct on all counts, except the last, Matchmaker.

One piece of food for thought that you may consider: Adam was told not to sell his tokens for money. He proved his worthiness for further light and knowledge by holding these things sacred rather than trading them for money.

As stated in your comment above,
the modem church specifically requires a person to pay money (in the form of tithes and offerings) to recieve the tokens available in the temple. Therefore, the modern church trades its tokens to make money. It's odd how things change over time.

I'm flattered by your initial compliment, but realize I could do far more. Please feel free to join me in making donations to Bountiful children's foundation!

Do you go to the temple today then or no?

[Matchmaker]

I don't believe that any of the Apostles get free housing or free food. They get a generous salary or stipend and insurance benefits commensurate with working for a corporation, but I believe they manage their own financial affairs beyond that. I know Brother Bednar gets food at Costco now and then. Many of them own very nice homes in close proximity to one another north of Salt Lake City. Most of them were quite well-to-do before they were even called to be Apostles, so the Church stipend is probably just pin money to them anyway. They won't get rich, nor stay rich, off of it.

How do you know?
You don’t - because despite receiving sacred tithes and demanding members be subject to inquiry in tithing settlements and temple recommend interviews, they are dishonest and keep money secret.

I do know - because my husband worked for the church - that they order all kinds of special food requests - and they paid no money - it was simply ordered and taken to them.

I did not realize they got free lunch everyday in the Church Office Building. That's a nice perk, and one which some better companies have been known to provide for their Executives. I know the Nauvoo Cafe on the bottom floor of the Joseph Smith Building makes great lunches and often prepares lunches for the GA's.

No, it wasn’t a meal - it was groceries.

Free groceries? That is generous. If the stores wanted to give them free groceries because they were GA's, I like to think they probably paid individual tithing on the gifts they received from others and on the money they might have received from all their books or personal real estate or business ventures. Of course, their personal worthiness is between them and the Lord, just like it is with us.

[Thinker]

How do you know?
You don’t - because despite receiving sacred tithes and demanding members be subject to inquiry in tithing settlements and temple recommend interviews, they are dishonest and keep money secret.

I do know - because my husband worked for the church - that they order all kinds of special food requests - and they paid no money - it was simply ordered and taken to them.

I did not realize they got free lunch everyday in the Church Office Building. That's a nice perk, and one which some better companies have been known to provide for their Executives. I know the Nauvoo Cafe on the bottom floor of the Joseph Smith Building makes great lunches and often prepares lunches for the GA's.

No, it wasn’t a meal - it was groceries.

Free groceries? That is generous. If the stores wanted to give them free groceries because they were GA's, I like to think they probably paid individual tithing on the gifts they received from others and on the money they might have received from all their books or personal real estate or business ventures. Of course, their personal worthiness is between them and the Lord, just like it is with us.

No, it wasn’t a grocery store. The church owns a long list of for-profit businesses. The food the president ordered came to him from the same source as the food from the church-owned 5-star restaurant “The Roof” comes from. It reminded me of the difference between a worldly king and a spiritual king. A spiritual king (or “the greatest among you will be your servant”) does not demand everyone sacrifice their food for them, but rather uplifts and helps others and leads others by EXAMPLE, not just by fancy speeches.

[Thinker]

I actually just watched your video for the first time a moment ago.

Just...wow.
It makes me see LDSCo in a new light.
Maybe the top leaders (RMN, DHO, HBE) actually ARE evil.

I didn't really consider that as a possibility until you juxtaposed the images of those in poverty with the words of LDSCo leaders. Those demands to PAY at all cost, while simultaneously building a "fortune" in FRNs, by not relieving present needs, is disheartening.

Take heart Brother and sing along with me...

• Put Your Dollar On the Pile:
  
  “Put your dollar on the pile and move alo-ong
  Our portfolio has grown big and stro-ong
  Get back to work - you peasant jerk
  And put your dollar - on - tha - pile!”

[LukeAir2008]

Dieter Uchtdorf wasn’t just a pilot - and airline pilots are highly paid individuals - he was Lufthansa Senior Vice President of Flight Operations.

[sandman45]

largerthanlife wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:01 pm
Do people on welfare pay tithing? Free housing and free food but they don't pay any tithing?

This probably has zero to do with what you were thinking, but the apostles get free housing and free food - not just the bare necessities, but the highest quality they can get, I'm told - and they are exempt from paying tithing. They live pretty high on the hog on the welfare they get.

I don't believe that any of the Apostles get free housing or free food. They get a generous salary or stipend and insurance benefits commensurate with working for a corporation, but I believe they manage their own financial affairs beyond that. I know Brother Bednar gets food at Costco now and then. Many of them own very nice homes in close proximity to one another north of Salt Lake City. Most of them were quite well-to-do before they were even called to be Apostles, so the Church stipend is probably just pin money to them anyway. They won't get rich, nor stay rich, off of it.

Someone’s drunk on cool aid

[Matchmaker]

largerthanlife wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:01 pm
Do people on welfare pay tithing? Free housing and free food but they don't pay any tithing?

This probably has zero to do with what you were thinking, but the apostles get free housing and free food - not just the bare necessities, but the highest quality they can get, I'm told - and they are exempt from paying tithing. They live pretty high on the hog on the welfare they get.

I don't believe that any of the Apostles get free housing or free food. They get a generous salary or stipend and insurance benefits commensurate with working for a corporation, but I believe they manage their own financial affairs beyond that. I know Brother Bednar gets food at Costco now and then. Many of them own very nice homes in close proximity to one another north of Salt Lake City. Most of them were quite well-to-do before they were even called to be Apostles, so the Church stipend is probably just pin money to them anyway. They won't get rich, nor stay rich, off of it.

Someone’s drunk on cool aid

Please explain, if you think I am missing something. I sincerely want to be enlightened further.

[JohnnyL]

Hmm... From "it's personal between a person and the Lord" to "I love to criticize the apostles and it should be between me, too." Irony?

President Monson would buy his snacks and drinks from a vending machine--no personal servant running them up from the Lion House, lol.

[Thinker]

Hmm... From "it's personal between a person and the Lord" to "I love to criticize the apostles and it should be between me, too." Irony?

President Monson would buy his snacks and drinks from a vending machine--no personal servant running them up from the Lion House, lol

I don’t know about Monson, but Hinkley had special food requests ordered and delivered for him.

Leaders have tried to take the place of God - demanding they be followed over doing what is of God, demanding people over-pay money to them rather than God - “the least of these,” and have used temples to make money and to break up marriages and families. They do and say some good - but also evil. And evil ought to be criticized... especially in this time of spiritual warfare when evil is made to look good and good, evil. There is such a temptation to worship false gods, but they tend to chain us, taking our free will - what the war in heaven & earth - is about.

[Obrien]

It is not addressed... there are chronic, unaddressed hunger issues both in the world at large AND among the LDS. Go to Bountiful's website and you'll see more need than any one of us normal folk can address. Don't let that discourage you to the point of inaction. Tithe there, in lieu of the LDS church. Adopt a stake for a year. Form a group and adopt a stake. Make a recurring monthly donation that fits your capacity. This charity is the real deal - they do good with their donations now, rather than socking them away for a future need.

If you need an example, I quit paying the church 5 years ago, but we have maintained charitable giving at gross tithing levels. My income has increased threefold, we've had no lessening of the intangible blessings from heaven, and we have contentment in our decisions. I will stand at judgment day with clean hands in this regard.

I think your charitable giving is generous and very Christ-like, but because it is not given directly through the Church's designated channels, they probably won't let you have a Temple Recommend, and you probably aren't on the records of the Church as a full tithe payer. That would cause me some worry in these latter-days.

You are correct on all counts, except the last, Matchmaker.

One piece of food for thought that you may consider: Adam was told not to sell his tokens for money. He proved his worthiness for further light and knowledge by holding these things sacred rather than trading them for money.

As stated in your comment above,
the modem church specifically requires a person to pay money (in the form of tithes and offerings) to recieve the tokens available in the temple. Therefore, the modern church trades its tokens to make money. It's odd how things change over time.

I'm flattered by your initial compliment, but realize I could do far more. Please feel free to join me in making donations to Bountiful children's foundation!

Do you go to the temple today then or no?

Good question. By definition, I am not temple worthy, inasmuch as I do not pay tithing to the church. I do not prevaricate in order to get a recommend, so I have not been in several years. In my roughly 3 decades of fairly robust temple attendance, I went enough times to have a firm grip (pardon a small pun) on the proceedings. I've not been since the most recent set of changes, but my window of temple activity does span back to the blood oaths.

I never made it to a live session, which used to cause me regret. I'm over that at this point.

Do you attend, and if so, why? Serious question, I'm interested in dialogue if you're willing to have what will likely be a slow conversation (I check the forum in church, mostly, so my responses may take a bit longer than you'd like. )

[Lexew1899]

I think your charitable giving is generous and very Christ-like, but because it is not given directly through the Church's designated channels, they probably won't let you have a Temple Recommend, and you probably aren't on the records of the Church as a full tithe payer. That would cause me some worry in these latter-days.

You are correct on all counts, except the last, Matchmaker.

One piece of food for thought that you may consider: Adam was told not to sell his tokens for money. He proved his worthiness for further light and knowledge by holding these things sacred rather than trading them for money.

As stated in your comment above,
the modem church specifically requires a person to pay money (in the form of tithes and offerings) to recieve the tokens available in the temple. Therefore, the modern church trades its tokens to make money. It's odd how things change over time.

I'm flattered by your initial compliment, but realize I could do far more. Please feel free to join me in making donations to Bountiful children's foundation!

Do you go to the temple today then or no?

Good question. By definition, I am not temple worthy, inasmuch as I do not pay tithing to the church. I do not prevaricate in order to get a recommend, so I have not been in several years. In my roughly 3 decades of fairly robust temple attendance, I went enough times to have a firm grip (pardon a small pun) on the proceedings. I've not been since the most recent set of changes, but my window of temple activity does span back to the blood oaths.

I never made it to a live session, which used to cause me regret. I'm over that at this point.

Do you attend, and if so, why? Serious question, I'm interested in dialogue if you're willing to have what will likely be a slow conversation (I check the forum in church, mostly, so my responses may take a bit longer than you'd like. )

I don't have a recommend right now either, and probably won't again. I feel the Church has not lived up to its mission, and feel by donating to it I would be complicit in that. I've had several theophanies where the Second Comforter has visited me, so am not worried in any degree about the state of my soul.

[Obrien]

You are correct on all counts, except the last, Matchmaker.

One piece of food for thought that you may consider: Adam was told not to sell his tokens for money. He proved his worthiness for further light and knowledge by holding these things sacred rather than trading them for money.

As stated in your comment above,
the modem church specifically requires a person to pay money (in the form of tithes and offerings) to recieve the tokens available in the temple. Therefore, the modern church trades its tokens to make money. It's odd how things change over time.

I'm flattered by your initial compliment, but realize I could do far more. Please feel free to join me in making donations to Bountiful children's foundation!

Do you go to the temple today then or no?

Good question. By definition, I am not temple worthy, inasmuch as I do not pay tithing to the church. I do not prevaricate in order to get a recommend, so I have not been in several years. In my roughly 3 decades of fairly robust temple attendance, I went enough times to have a firm grip (pardon a small pun) on the proceedings. I've not been since the most recent set of changes, but my window of temple activity does span back to the blood oaths.

I never made it to a live session, which used to cause me regret. I'm over that at this point.

Do you attend, and if so, why? Serious question, I'm interested in dialogue if you're willing to have what will likely be a slow conversation (I check the forum in church, mostly, so my responses may take a bit longer than you'd like. )

I don't have a recommend right now either, and probably won't again. I feel the Church has not lived up to its mission, and feel by donating to it I would be complicit in that. I've had several theophanies where the Second Comforter has visited me, so am not worried in any degree about the state of my soul.

I have had several spiritual experiences, but none of the magnitude you describe. Good for you, and peace be with you. Shortest conversation in ldsff history...

FWIW, I don't worry about the state of my soul, either.