LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 3:31 pm**

Since JJ's body wasn't burned, and was wrapped in plastic - there should be evidence of how he was killed, hopefully. Also, there should be forensic evidence (fingerprints, DNA, hair, etc.) on the bags, the duct tape, and maybe even on his body, of who all handled it. If they find that he was poisoned, they could then look for that specific drug/poison in Tammy's tissues (as they've said it's hard to narrow things down, especially when the body has been embalmed, as Tammy's was), and maybe re-do some testing on Alex's body, as well (I don't for one second believe he died of natural causes). My hope is a thorough autopsy of little JJ will help solve the death of Tammy. Who knows, but there is hope.

As for Tylee's cause of death, hard to say if they'll be able to figure that one out, since Chad desecrated her body so much.

And speaking of Tammy, I wonder if the police have checked to see if Alex's phone pinged at the Daybell house the night she died. Did she know Alex? How/why would she have? So if he was at their house that night, wouldn't Tammy have thought that was strange? Did the Daybell's have any of their adult children living there at that time (October 19)? Or will we find that Chad committed that murder, all by himself.

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 3:41 pm**

inho wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 3:22 pm
https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive ... ward-women

Exclusive: Chad Daybell Allegations of Sexual Assault and Other 'Predatory' Behavior Toward Women Surface
June 19, 2020 - KAELYN FORDE

"Three weeks before Tammy dies, he said to me, and he was in this frustrated voice, 'My plan can't move forward until Tammy's dead,' or 'until Tammy dies,'" Rowe said, explaining she believes Chad was referring to his "life plan," or the plan that God had for him. "I was disheartened, I was very disturbed by that."

On Oct. 19, Tammy was found dead at the couple's home in Rexburg. Chad and Lori wed weeks later in Hawaii.
Not surprisingly Julie Rowe left out the part of the story where her angels had told her that "Tammy is almost graduated from mortality". That was on the first Eyes open video about Chad. But at that time Julie still believed that Chad and Lori were innocent and that Tammy's death was natural.

Yes, because his evil plan included getting Tammy's $430,000 life insurance - which is why he couldn't divorce her and had to murder her.

That anyone would believe a word Rowe says about anything - or give her any credence at all, is utterly mind-blowing. The scriptures talk of "strong delusion" coming upon people, which I'm sure has many applications - but this whole sick, sad saga is surely one of them.

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 9:27 pm**

Is there an up to date summary somewhere? I can't keep up.

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 10:18 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 7:16 pmInteresting film - PK - I just watched the trailer. I assume you watched it with English subtitles.

I looked for trailers with English subtitles when I wrote my last reply to you and couldn't find any, but-yes-I watched it with English subtitles. I've watched enough Hindi movies to know that "ha" means "yes", "nine" means no, and "atchaa" means "oh" (I'm sure those are misspelled - except Hindi doesn't use our letters, so who knows).

As far as us becoming as Christ or Christs - I am far off as most. My guess is few - very few get to that state. But there are various road maps to getting there. If I recall correctly, you’re familiar with James Fowler who presented a basic idea of faith stages, culminating in a type of Christ consciousness. (http://psychologycharts.com/james-fowle ... faith.html)

A more detailed map I found in “Putting on the Mind of Christ” (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/432 ... _of_Christ). I disagree with Marion in some things but appreciated learning a lot from him also. Still, my impression is after a certain point in a spiritual journey, so much is individual. No 2 people will see the kingdom of God the same way so nobody can tell you exactly, eg: how to confront your “garden of gesthemane”/shadow aspects. I personally think that positive disintegration (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration) along with humbly turning for help from God is very much related... in making weak things strong.

If you find more, please share with me.

It sounds like becoming a Christ is pretty much the same doctrine as following Jesus until you reach the point where he is (like JS is reported to have said). Duh. Why didn't I make that connection? (rhetorical question)

I looked up some quotes, but I think the last one probably fits what I'm thinking best. (I'll divide them into two posts so they aren't (I hope) excessively long to read.

You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves; to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done; by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as doth those who sit enthroned in everlasting power;

What did Jesus do? why I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father, so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory, so that Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before;

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... -seasons/3

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 10:21 pm**

We ask, then, where is the prototype? or where is the saved being? We conclude as to the answer of this question there will be no dispute among those who believe the bible, that it is Christ: all will agree in this that he is the prototype or standard of salvation, or in other words, that he is a saved being. And if we should continue our interrogation, and ask how it is that he is saved, the answer would be, because he is a just and holy being; and if he were any thing different from what he is he would not be saved; for his salvation depends on his being precisely what he is and nothing else;

for salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses, and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him:

It is scarcely necessary here to observe what we have previously noticed: That the glory which the Father and the Son have, is because they are just and holy beings; and that if they were lacking in one attribute or perfection which they have, the glory which they have, never could be enjoyed by them; for it requires them to be precisely what they are in order to enjoy it: and if the Savior gives this glory to any others, he must do it in the very way set forth in his prayer to his Father: by making them one with him, as he and the Father are one.—In so doing he would give them the glory which the Father has given him; and when his disciples are made one with the Father and the Son, as the Father and the Son are one, who cannot see the propriety of the Savior's saying, The works which I do, shall they do; and greater works than these shall they do, be cause I go to the Father?

This one, below, is the one I think puts it in a nutshell, and probably fits nirvana, oneness with God, being a Christ, etc. To those who believe in mmp, this would take eons of mortal lives to accomplish (and, obviously, avoiding the insanity the Daybells apparently believe/d in).

These teachings of the Savior must clearly show unto us the nature of salvation; and what he proposed unto the human family when he proposed to save them—That he proposed to make them like unto himself; and he was like the Father, the great prototype of all saved beings: And for any portion of the human family to be assimilated into their likeness is to be saved; and to be unlike them is to be destroyed: and on this hinge turns the door of salvation.
http://lecturesonfaith.com/7/

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 10:27 pm**

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 7:22 pm A small detail I forgot to add —— in the text exchange Chad had with Tammy, the morning that he and Alex dismembered and burned Tylee’s body, where Chad told Tammy that he had burned the tree limbs, and shot a big raccoon and buried it in their “pet cemetery” this evil man then texted “Fun times!!” to the wife he would murder three weeks later.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 12:05 pmThat stood out to me, as well. Just sickening, utterly sickening - and it certainly goes to show his level of depravity. He's burying and burning children's bodies in his backyard, was making wedding plans with his whore, and no doubt plotting the murder of his wife - and to him, all this equals, "Fun times!!". The level of evil of these people is just mind-blowing.

When I read it, I took it to be a bit sarcastic, like the real message was, "Fun times, NOT!"

Reading that affidavit was disturbing.

As for Julie Rowe, I don't know where her "reality" lies, but I cannot believe anything she says. She's like a fly buzzing on the sidelines.

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 10:48 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 7:16 pm I personally think that positive disintegration (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration) along with humbly turning for help from God is very much related... in making weak things strong.

I just went to the link. Though I can see where Dąbrowski gets his perspective (and he is surely justified in believing that way), I'm not sure I agree with it. At the same time, I know that going through hell can bring us to our knees like nothing else can.

views psychological tension and anxiety as necessary for growth. These "disintegrative" processes are therefore seen as "positive",

I have lived through so much of this, and still struggle/fight with it, but I honestly don't believe it has contributed to my growth. In fact, I think it blocks me from being able to feel/hear/know the voice of God when he talks to me.

I also disagree that personality must be created or shaped (any mother who pays attention to the personalities of her children knows that), but that isn't pertinent to our subject.

A more detailed map I found in “Putting on the Mind of Christ” (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/432 ... _of_Christ). I disagree with Marion in some things but appreciated learning a lot from him also. Still, my impression is after a certain point in a spiritual journey, so much is individual. No 2 people will see the kingdom of God the same way so nobody can tell you exactly, eg: how to confront your “garden of gesthemane”/shadow aspects.

This looks like a fascinating book. I will have to see if I can find a way to read it.

If I recall correctly, you’re familiar with James Fowler who presented a basic idea of faith stages, culminating in a type of Christ consciousness. (http://psychologycharts.com/james-fowle ... faith.html)

Yes, I"m familiar with him and with his stages.

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 11:01 pm**

inho wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 3:22 pm Not surprisingly Julie Rowe left out the part of the story where her angels had told her that "Tammy is almost graduated from mortality". That was on the first Eyes open video about Chad. But at that time Julie still believed that Chad and Lori were innocent and that Tammy's death was natural.

I fear she's digging herself a hole. I wonder if she knows how seriously local law enforcement and the FBI are taking this case? She might be reaping what she doesn't want to sow, with all the conflicting statements. They might look at her earlier prophecies about Tammy. Seems to me her best interests would be to keep her mouth shut (I think she's innocent of any crime; that all she's "guilty" of is not being in touch with reality).

Posted: **June 20th, 2020, 11:06 pm**

Trucker wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 9:27 pm Is there an up to date summary somewhere? I can't keep up.

East Idaho news seems to have fairly regular updates. One of them includes a disturbing affidavit about finding the children's bodies. They had an idea of where to search because of Alex's cell phone (it was essentially a record of where he had been on the alleged days of the murders, including on Daybell's property where the children were found-meaning they found the bodies by searching in the area the cell phone said he had been).

This link is where the updates are (and will be): https://www.eastidahonews.com/news/daybell/

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 8:12 am**

Trucker wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 9:27 pm Is there an up to date summary somewhere? I can't keep up.

Trucker, Jason Lum from Fox 10 Phoenix, has been following this story closely, and here is a summary he did of the long affidavit - the bullet points -

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/12 ... 2711847937

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm**

We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 4:44 pm**

Some people want their 5 minutes of fame. Julie Rowe now claims Chad sexually assualted her:
https://youtu.be/nWiF1uUMd1g

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm**

...And now Eric Smith comes out if the woodwork for his 5 minutes of fame. He is Julie Rowe's side kick. He was just excommunicated for his beliefs:

https://youtu.be/mzhp5uh_bgY

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm**

farmerchick wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?

Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 6:42 pm**

tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm
farmerchick wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?
Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?

I think you are the only person on this forum who actually heard Chad speak, and saw Chad and Lori together at the campout you and your spouse attended. So, my question to you —- in your opinion, how solidly do you think Chad believes in who he said he was (leader of the 144K, end-time servant, a Holy Ghost, or whatever) and do you think he still believes this? I’m wondering if he believes a natural disaster could still occur that will break open the jail houses he and Lori are in and set them free to fulfill their mission together?

I think that at the actual time of the murders they didn’t worry about cellphones, or any long-term consequences, because of their belief in a huge earthquake in Utah/Idaho in Dec 2019. He only cared about keeping Tammy from asking questions in the short term. God was supposed to take care of the long-term stuff.

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 6:48 pm**

evejaa wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm ...And now Eric Smith comes out if the woodwork for his 5 minutes of fame. He is Julie Rowe's side kick. He was just excommunicated for his beliefs:

https://youtu.be/mzhp5uh_bgY

Eric Smith was my (adjunct) professor for my GIS class at BYU-Idaho just 3 years ago. Seemed like a normal laid back guy, never mentioned anything about his beliefs and did a good job with the class. I'm sad he got carried away in this stuff, and all the way to the point of being excommunicated. Hope he can find renewed faith and come around after all this.

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 8:35 pm**

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:42 pm
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm
farmerchick wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?
Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?
I think you are the only person on this forum who actually heard Chad speak, and saw Chad and Lori together at the campout you and your spouse attended. So, my question to you —- in your opinion, how solidly do you think Chad believes in who he said he was (leader of the 144K, end-time servant, a Holy Ghost, or whatever) and do you think he still believes this? I’m wondering if he believes a natural disaster could still occur that will break open the jail houses he and Lori are in and set them free to fulfill their mission together?

I think that at the actual time of the murders they didn’t worry about cellphones, or any long-term consequences, because of their belief in a huge earthquake in Utah/Idaho in Dec 2019. He only cared about keeping Tammy from asking questions in the short term. God was supposed to take care of the long-term stuff.

To be honest, I was mainly keeping an eye on our special needs daughter to pay too much attention to what Chad said. What I remember though is him talking about seeing ghosts in his room as a kid and thinking at the time that it must be a normal experience.
Lori I remember two distinct things about her: I remember when we had a small fireside chat at Nancy James's moms house in (Provo?) their upper living room, and Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell. After awhile of refusing to answer that particular question, she got a bit visibly frustrated and told him it was a shame he didn't trust people more.
The other encounter with her was one where on our last day at the campout, just before we took off to go to Rexburg, she had a tent set up right beside our truck, and was giving a talk as were most other tents in the area. I was sitting in the back, waiting on my husband to get done chatting with some of the guys when I heard her lecture. She was talking about water molecules and was demonstrating how to imprint positive vibes in water. She had several water bottles, with some with positive words on them like "joy", "prosperity", that sort of thing and water bottles with words like "anger", "hate" etc. She showed freshly fallen snowflake pics right next to pics of muddy ice and claimed one was cursed. I listened with mild amusement right up until she said that we could cure all manner of ailments in our bodies if we just tapped on our inner forearm a few inches above the wrist. I watched her and the crowd do it and I had to leave because at that point I was about to burst out laughing.
But I didn't know a thing about him or her thinking they were somehow special in the manner you're asking. However, I DID believe that he absolutely believed what I heard him say at the time. It wasn't until the murders of the kids that I ever even heard of most of this stuff with his beliefs.

On a side note: I also met Julie Rowe at Rexburg. She totally believes she is who she says she is. No doubt about that one at all to me.

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 9:00 pm**

tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 8:35 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:42 pm
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm
farmerchick wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?
Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?
I think you are the only person on this forum who actually heard Chad speak, and saw Chad and Lori together at the campout you and your spouse attended. So, my question to you —- in your opinion, how solidly do you think Chad believes in who he said he was (leader of the 144K, end-time servant, a Holy Ghost, or whatever) and do you think he still believes this? I’m wondering if he believes a natural disaster could still occur that will break open the jail houses he and Lori are in and set them free to fulfill their mission together?

I think that at the actual time of the murders they didn’t worry about cellphones, or any long-term consequences, because of their belief in a huge earthquake in Utah/Idaho in Dec 2019. He only cared about keeping Tammy from asking questions in the short term. God was supposed to take care of the long-term stuff.
To be honest, I was mainly keeping an eye on our special needs daughter to pay too much attention to what Chad said. What I remember though is him talking about seeing ghosts in his room as a kid and thinking at the time that it must be a normal experience.
Lori I remember two distinct things about her: I remember when we had a small fireside chat at Nancy James's moms house in (Provo?) their upper living room, and Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell. After awhile of refusing to answer that particular question, she got a bit visibly frustrated and told him it was a shame he didn't trust people more.
The other encounter with her was one where on our last day at the campout, just before we took off to go to Rexburg, she had a tent set up right beside our truck, and was giving a talk as were most other tents in the area. I was sitting in the back, waiting on my husband to get done chatting with some of the guys when I heard her lecture. She was talking about water molecules and was demonstrating how to imprint positive vibes in water. She had several water bottles, with some with positive words on them like "joy", "prosperity", that sort of thing and water bottles with words like "anger", "hate" etc. She showed freshly fallen snowflake pics right next to pics of muddy ice and claimed one was cursed. I listened with mild amusement right up until she said that we could cure all manner of ailments in our bodies if we just tapped on our inner forearm a few inches above the wrist. I watched her and the crowd do it and I had to leave because at that point I was about to burst out laughing.
But I didn't know a thing about him or her thinking they were somehow special in the manner you're asking. However, I DID believe that he absolutely believed what I heard him say at the time. It wasn't until the murders of the kids that I ever even heard of most of this stuff with his beliefs.

On a side note: I also met Julie Rowe at Rexburg. She totally believes she is who she says she is. No doubt about that one at all to me.

I am in no way backing her up. Don't know her or Chad and I am glad that I am far from this whole thing. But, the idea about the water is based on some pretty solid science. Here is the first book this Japanese Engineer wrote on the water topic. https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Messages- ... 0743289803
Her use of that idea is a little off the edge, but the idea of water being changed is kind of cool. Light changes instantly, depending on what it bumps into, and so does water. As to her claims??? No comment.

Posted: **June 21st, 2020, 9:03 pm**

tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pmDumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?

If location is turned off, I can see how intelligent people would think their locations aren't being picked up.

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 6:20 am**

tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 8:35 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:42 pm
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm
farmerchick wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 1:50 pm We now know that no one talked. Law enforcement tracked the cell phone of Alex cox to find the kids in Chad's back yard. Chad is implicated as well by cell phone communication to Tammy. Chad was trying to establish why the ground may have been disturbed and while concealing the bodies right under her nose. The irony of it all...….Chad and Lori are some of the dumbest criminals Ever. Unless the end of the world comes, Chad and Lori are in for some long years of incarceration....that realization ought to wipe the smirk right off Lori's face......….july 22 2020......is going to be just another day in paradise. There are timelines on webslueths as well if anyone is interested in a detailed version. Anyone think Chad or Lori may want to move on to the next mmp? Just wondering if they really believe this stuff, wouldn't taking their own lives be better than getting old in Prison? What do you guys think?
Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?
I think you are the only person on this forum who actually heard Chad speak, and saw Chad and Lori together at the campout you and your spouse attended. So, my question to you —- in your opinion, how solidly do you think Chad believes in who he said he was (leader of the 144K, end-time servant, a Holy Ghost, or whatever) and do you think he still believes this? I’m wondering if he believes a natural disaster could still occur that will break open the jail houses he and Lori are in and set them free to fulfill their mission together?

I think that at the actual time of the murders they didn’t worry about cellphones, or any long-term consequences, because of their belief in a huge earthquake in Utah/Idaho in Dec 2019. He only cared about keeping Tammy from asking questions in the short term. God was supposed to take care of the long-term stuff.
To be honest, I was mainly keeping an eye on our special needs daughter to pay too much attention to what Chad said. What I remember though is him talking about seeing ghosts in his room as a kid and thinking at the time that it must be a normal experience.
Lori I remember two distinct things about her: I remember when we had a small fireside chat at Nancy James's moms house in (Provo?) their upper living room, and Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell. After awhile of refusing to answer that particular question, she got a bit visibly frustrated and told him it was a shame he didn't trust people more.
The other encounter with her was one where on our last day at the campout, just before we took off to go to Rexburg, she had a tent set up right beside our truck, and was giving a talk as were most other tents in the area. I was sitting in the back, waiting on my husband to get done chatting with some of the guys when I heard her lecture. She was talking about water molecules and was demonstrating how to imprint positive vibes in water. She had several water bottles, with some with positive words on them like "joy", "prosperity", that sort of thing and water bottles with words like "anger", "hate" etc. She showed freshly fallen snowflake pics right next to pics of muddy ice and claimed one was cursed. I listened with mild amusement right up until she said that we could cure all manner of ailments in our bodies if we just tapped on our inner forearm a few inches above the wrist. I watched her and the crowd do it and I had to leave because at that point I was about to burst out laughing.
But I didn't know a thing about him or her thinking they were somehow special in the manner you're asking. However, I DID believe that he absolutely believed what I heard him say at the time. It wasn't until the murders of the kids that I ever even heard of most of this stuff with his beliefs.

On a side note: I also met Julie Rowe at Rexburg. She totally believes she is who she says she is. No doubt about that one at all to me.

Ok..wait...This sentence needs some context

"Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell."

Your Husband claims to know where the lost pages are?

Over the last 20 years I have met five different people claiming to have wither knowledge or actual translations of the lost pages...one of them was at Adam-Ondi Amen...
(this is on top of the three different people who have "the sealed Portion" and heaven knows how many "vision" peddlers there have been)

For something that is lost their location seems to be pretty common knowledge. Lol

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 7:36 am**

After +75 pages what have we learned?
Isn’t that what Christ would want all this discussion to be based on - learning? Seeing any way we may have need to repent and correcting course? Sorry to be the one to bring this up, but I feel it’s needed.

Which dysfunctional beliefs led to multiple murders - even of children - & may be STILL troubling people to a lesser degree?

Belief that people become demonically possessed/“dark spirits/zombies”

Belief that religious leaders “don’t make apologies” even when mistaken

Belief that obsession with sex (or porn) as more evil than more evil acts... which cause emotionally-abusive scapegoating & in this case, murder over divorce

Belief that a “godly organization” justifies financial corruption

Belief that religious leaders will never lead us astray

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 8:46 am**

JSmith wrote: ↑June 22nd, 2020, 6:20 am
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 8:35 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:42 pm
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pm

Dumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?
I think you are the only person on this forum who actually heard Chad speak, and saw Chad and Lori together at the campout you and your spouse attended. So, my question to you —- in your opinion, how solidly do you think Chad believes in who he said he was (leader of the 144K, end-time servant, a Holy Ghost, or whatever) and do you think he still believes this? I’m wondering if he believes a natural disaster could still occur that will break open the jail houses he and Lori are in and set them free to fulfill their mission together?

I think that at the actual time of the murders they didn’t worry about cellphones, or any long-term consequences, because of their belief in a huge earthquake in Utah/Idaho in Dec 2019. He only cared about keeping Tammy from asking questions in the short term. God was supposed to take care of the long-term stuff.
To be honest, I was mainly keeping an eye on our special needs daughter to pay too much attention to what Chad said. What I remember though is him talking about seeing ghosts in his room as a kid and thinking at the time that it must be a normal experience.
Lori I remember two distinct things about her: I remember when we had a small fireside chat at Nancy James's moms house in (Provo?) their upper living room, and Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell. After awhile of refusing to answer that particular question, she got a bit visibly frustrated and told him it was a shame he didn't trust people more.
The other encounter with her was one where on our last day at the campout, just before we took off to go to Rexburg, she had a tent set up right beside our truck, and was giving a talk as were most other tents in the area. I was sitting in the back, waiting on my husband to get done chatting with some of the guys when I heard her lecture. She was talking about water molecules and was demonstrating how to imprint positive vibes in water. She had several water bottles, with some with positive words on them like "joy", "prosperity", that sort of thing and water bottles with words like "anger", "hate" etc. She showed freshly fallen snowflake pics right next to pics of muddy ice and claimed one was cursed. I listened with mild amusement right up until she said that we could cure all manner of ailments in our bodies if we just tapped on our inner forearm a few inches above the wrist. I watched her and the crowd do it and I had to leave because at that point I was about to burst out laughing.
But I didn't know a thing about him or her thinking they were somehow special in the manner you're asking. However, I DID believe that he absolutely believed what I heard him say at the time. It wasn't until the murders of the kids that I ever even heard of most of this stuff with his beliefs.

On a side note: I also met Julie Rowe at Rexburg. She totally believes she is who she says she is. No doubt about that one at all to me.
Ok..wait...This sentence needs some context

"Lori got agitated with my husband because it was asked several times of him to tell where the 116 pgs from the lehi book was at and he wouldn't tell."

Your Husband claims to know where the lost pages are?

Over the last 20 years I have met five different people claiming to have wither knowledge or actual translations of the lost pages...one of them was at Adam-Ondi Amen...
(this is on top of the three different people who have "the sealed Portion" and heaven knows how many "vision" peddlers there have been)

For something that is lost their location seems to be pretty common knowledge. Lol

It's a long story, but long story a little bit shorter: My husband is the direct descendant of Joseph Smith thru Alice Fredericka Smith (another long) story. The papers were stolen from Harris, and Alice's husband, killed and took them from the guy who stole them from Harris. Joseph Smith's son, Alice's dad, had a box made lined with sheep skin for them to be kept. They've been passed down from father to son ever since. So basically Joseph Smith's grand daughter reclaimed them, and they've been back in the Smith family ever since
Alice was NOT a spinster, but married an Indian, which the U.S govt refused to recognize since it was illegal. That's why the historic records has her listed as childless and unmarried.

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 8:53 am**

Thinker wrote: ↑June 22nd, 2020, 7:36 am After +75 pages what have we learned?
Isn’t that what Christ would want all this discussion to be based on - learning? Seeing any way we may have need to repent and correcting course? Sorry to be the one to bring this up, but I feel it’s needed.

Which dysfunctional beliefs led to multiple murders - even of children - & may be STILL troubling people to a lesser degree?
Belief that people become demonically possessed/“dark spirits/zombies”

Belief that religious leaders “don’t make apologies” even when mistaken

Belief that obsession with sex (or porn) as more evil than more evil acts... which cause emotionally-abusive scapegoating & in this case, murder over divorce

Belief that a “godly organization” justifies financial corruption

Belief that religious leaders will never lead us astray

That cell phones can track you down to within 100' or less feet of your location. If police get records of this from your cell phone company, you are fully SOL.

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 9:25 am**

Nate Eaton and Keith Morrison talking about the case, and the new Dateline episode airing tonight:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/k ... YurjQJ85OI

Posted: **June 22nd, 2020, 10:01 am**

Silver Pie wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 9:03 pm
tdj wrote: ↑June 21st, 2020, 6:31 pmDumb is a bit of an understatement. I didn't realize there were still people out there who don't realize that their cell phone records or pings their location at all times?
If location is turned off, I can see how intelligent people would think their locations aren't being picked up.

Interesting thing I noticed about my cell phone is that even when I turn my location off to save battery power, when I go back later to turn it on, it has already been turned back on. I suspect this is a new feature in phones that has been kept rather quiet.

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