LDS Freedom Forum

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 11:21 am

inho wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 9:33 am

justme wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 9:09 am

Trucker wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 8:47 am Hmmm, does Cain also have MMP?

No.

Nobody does

But if you are asking those who have dreamed up in their own head some elaborate pseudo theology that has MMP as a component then you may receive different answers depending on their self constructed rules.

I don't know what Chad and Lori think of Cain, but their former friend Julie Rowe believes that Cain still roams the earth. She met him once at the Salt Lake airport.

Did Cain look a lot like Tom Welling?

JR said he looked / dressed like Dundee! Bahahahahaha

Thinker wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 12:05 pm

Silver Pie wrote: ↑June 17th, 2020, 10:43 pm From what I have learned about Krishna I honestly believe he could be Christ..

Yeah. There’s a lot of talk about the Spirit of Christ. Christ is not Jesus’s last name but what he became and encouraged us to become. I think the Spirit of Christ is not limited to one person.

• ”Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do...” - John 14:12

I said Christ instead of Jesus because Christ and Krishna sound similar to me. I could have also said Lord (Lord vs Lord Krishna).

I'm not up on the root of the word Christ or what it originally meant. Personally, I don't see us being literal Christs because I view that as someone who is the savior of the world. Any links you have to clear that up for me would be greatly appreciated.

I watched a show on Netflix called OMG Oh My God! It's Hindi, so one has to read subtitles if one does not understand Hindi, but it's an interesting show about an atheist who sues God. Krishna shows up, but as an ordinary person who befriends the man suing God.

Now, if you want a powerful commentary on religion, I have found PK to be powerful. This movie is also Hindi, also on Netflix. It's about an alien who is stranded on earth when his "remote" (to call his ship) is stolen. He can't call his ship to come get him without it. He's told to turn to God (trouble is, which God/god?). If you watch that movie, no Hindi movie will be able to measure up, even the really good ones (my experience). (Pk means "tipsy" in HIndi, as in "drunk". Because he is so innocent of our ways, he is constantly accused of being tipsy/pk and it essentially turns into his name, hence the title of the movie.)

Buddhists petitioned the Indian government to ban the movie because, they said, it put Buddhism in a bad light, but the government refused. When I watched it, I did not see Buddhism put in a bad light. What I saw put in a bad light were men who were/are using religion to gain power, money, and fame.

It made me laugh, it made me cry, and it opened my eyes to professors of religions of all kinds.

Now, warnings for those who might be interested in this show, who need them:
The alien is naked when he gets here, but they don't show anything private.
There is a scene where a train is blown up that was a little too graphic for my taste, but probably fine for a lot of people.

Now Rowe is claiming Chad sexually assaulted her 2 years ago. I don’t believe a word this lady says

Rowe is incredibly uncredible.....but a person like Chad doesn't turn into a murderous adulterer over night...….there were more women than Lori.....of that I'm pretty sure.....she was just the one crazy enough to actually get with him......as for Julie Rowe, anything she says is questionable and not believable...….poor poor Tammy daybell...…..I wish she could have gotten away from him......I would think she had to have a clue he was doing these things.....but then again.....she may have just been to emotionally beat down by him that she didn't trust herself...…...chad must be very charismatic in person.....like most cult leaders who have a following........I have no idea why Julie would come out with this now after she gave him support in the beginning.......but hindsight is 20/20 and Julie's gift is like 0/0.........the only explanation for Julie Rowe is she just wants the press time....this makes her look really weak and crazy......instead of just crazy.....

farmerchick wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 3:49 pm Rowe is incredibly uncredible.....but a person like Chad doesn't turn into a murderous adulterer over night...….there were more women than Lori.....of that I'm pretty sure.....she was just the one crazy enough to actually get with him......as for Julie Rowe, anything she says is questionable and not believable...….poor poor Tammy daybell...…..I wish she could have gotten away from him......I would think she had to have a clue he was doing these things.....but then again.....she may have just been to emotionally beat down by him that she didn't trust herself...…...chad must be very charismatic in person.....like most cult leaders who have a following........I have no idea why Julie would come out with this now after she gave him support in the beginning.......but hindsight is 20/20 and Julie's gift is like 0/0.........the only explanation for Julie Rowe is she just wants the press time....this makes her look really weak and crazy......instead of just crazy.....

I don't know what Tammy and Chad's relationship was like, but according to an interview by someone who spoke with her the day before her death in the school library, they said she seemed distracted, and slightly frustrated. Traits which were not common to her otherwise bubbly self. Also, a short time before her death, Chad seemed aloof and agitated when having some sort of dealings with his neighbor.

All I KNOW is that when I heard him speak at the campout in 2017, he was the 2nd best speaker there. Very engaging and not at all boring. He spoke of seeing ghosts in his bedroom as a child and not realizing how rare of an ability that was. He thought it was as common as eating.
I wonder if he'll later claim to see the ghosts of the people killed in this? Sooner or later, after being incarcerated for a time, that haze goes away and the brain clears up because they'll both no longer have access to the people, places and teachings that caused their brains to go all screwy. When that happens, they'll realize the horror of what they've done, and may attempt to take their own lives. By they I mean either Chad or Lori.
I think Lori's problem is definitely one of psychological illness. When she goes to prison, she'll be evaluated and no doubt given medication. I think that's when sanity will arrive and the true extent of what she's done will hit her like a ton of bricks.
Chad.......I'm not sure what's up with him. Probably just got too caught up in the preppers thing.

Justin Lum just twittered out the details from the affidavit made after the search of Chad’s property. Very disturbing details.

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10?ref_src=t ... r%5Eauthor

Here is an easier to read copy:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/r ... js-bodies/

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 5:15 pm Justin Lum just twittered out the details from the affidavit made after the search of Chad’s property. Very disturbing details.

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10?ref_src=t ... r%5Eauthor

Absolutely insane.

Chad’s preliminary hearing has been postponed until early August, from July 1-2.

Alex’s cell phone seems to have never left his side. Chad’s texts to Tammy put himself with Alex in the spots where the bodies were recovered, and he tells Tammy he burned tree limbs, and buried a raccoon he shot that morning in their pet cemetery, the site of one of the children’s bodies. He’s up to his neck in this. Cellphones show that he can’t say Alex snuck onto his property in the middle of the night.

These folks are either the most arrogant or the dumbest criminals ever. It seems they really, really, really believed that God was going to cover up their evil deeds with the Wasatch Wakeup Earthquake.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 12:05 pm

Silver Pie wrote: ↑June 17th, 2020, 10:43 pm From what I have learned about Krishna I honestly believe he could be Christ..

Yeah. There’s a lot of talk about the Spirit of Christ. Christ is not Jesus’s last name but what he became and encouraged us to become. I think the Spirit of Christ is not limited to one person.

• ”Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do...” - John 14:12

I said Christ instead of Jesus because Christ and Krishna sound similar to me. I could have also said Lord (Lord vs Lord Krishna).

I'm not up on the root of the word Christ or what it originally meant. Personally, I don't see us being literal Christs because I view that as someone who is the savior of the world. Any links you have to clear that up for me would be greatly appreciated.

I watched a show on Netflix called OMG Oh My God! It's Hindi, so one has to read subtitles if one does not understand Hindi, but it's an interesting show about an atheist who sues God. Krishna shows up, but as an ordinary person who befriends the man suing God.

Now, if you want a powerful commentary on religion, I have found PK to be powerful. This movie is also Hindi, also on Netflix. It's about an alien who is stranded on earth when his "remote" (to call his ship) is stolen. He can't call his ship to come get him without it. He's told to turn to God (trouble is, which God/god?). If you watch that movie, no Hindi movie will be able to measure up, even the really good ones (my experience). (Pk means "tipsy" in HIndi, as in "drunk". Because he is so innocent of our ways, he is constantly accused of being tipsy/pk and it essentially turns into his name, hence the title of the movie.)

Buddhists petitioned the Indian government to ban the movie because, they said, it put Buddhism in a bad light, but the government refused. When I watched it, I did not see Buddhism put in a bad light. What I saw put in a bad light were men who were/are using religion to gain power, money, and fame.

It made me laugh, it made me cry, and it opened my eyes to professors of religions of all kinds.

Now, warnings for those who might be interested in this show, who need them:
The alien is naked when he gets here, but they don't show anything private.
There is a scene where a train is blown up that was a little too graphic for my taste, but probably fine for a lot of people.

Interesting film - PK - I just watched the trailer. I assume you watched it with English subtitles.

As far as us becoming as Christ or Christs - I am far off as most. My guess is few - very few get to that state. But there are various road maps to getting there. If I recall correctly, you’re familiar with James Fowler who presented a basic idea of faith stages, culminating in a type of Christ consciousness. (http://psychologycharts.com/james-fowle ... faith.html)

A more detailed map I found in “Putting on the Mind of Christ” (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/432 ... _of_Christ). I disagree with Marion in some things but appreciated learning a lot from him also. Still, my impression is after a certain point in a spiritual journey, so much is individual. No 2 people will see the kingdom of God the same way so nobody can tell you exactly, eg: how to confront your “garden of gesthemane”/shadow aspects. I personally think that positive disintegration (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration) along with humbly turning for help from God is very much related... in making weak things strong.

If you find more, please share with me.

A small detail I forgot to add —— in the text exchange Chad had with Tammy, the morning that he and Alex dismembered and burned Tylee’s body, where Chad told Tammy that he had burned the tree limbs, and shot a big raccoon and buried it in their “pet cemetery” this evil man then texted “Fun times!!” to the wife he would murder three weeks later.

Here is an easier to read copy of the affidavit, just now published by East Idaho News:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/r ... js-bodies/

I had heard from unverified source that Chad claimed to Tammy that he buried a raccoon. Now there is a confirmation for that story.

I hadn't realized that JJ disappeared when Melanie was still visiting Lori.

And the part where Lori calls Tylee a zombie is just horrible. Your teen-age daughter act like teenager (doesn't want to babysit JJ), so she must be a zombie.

I'm still wondering the trip to Yellowstone. Did something happen during the trip that made Lori and Alex to think that Tylee is a zombie and decide that something must be done to her? Or was that suppose to be the last fun memory with her?

Anyway, it seems that Tylee just disappeared suddenly. I never believed the theory that she was buried somewhere in Yellowstone. I doubted it, because I thought they would be more clever and come up some reasonable explanation to her disappearance. Otherwise JJ would start asking questions. But now it seems that one day the visit Yellowstone and the next day she is gone. How did they explain this to JJ?

inho wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 2:04 pm The source is Julie Rowe, so take that into account.

A close former friend of doomsday author Chad Daybell says that the husband of “cult mom” Lori Vallow made sexual advance toward her and other women before meeting Vallow and before his wife’s mysterious death.

Julie Rowe, an author and self-proclaimed clairvoyant, spoke to CrimeOnline’s Nancy Grace for her upcoming Fox Nation special, “A Lori Vallow Investigation With Nancy Grace.”

...

Rowe told Grace that there was another woman in Arizona before Lori Vallow whom Chad had been texting. That went haywire when the woman’s husband intercepted the texts and told Daybell he’d go public with them if Daybell didn’t leave his wife alone. Rowe, who said Daybell had also made sexual advances toward her, said that as far as she knew, she and the Arizona woman were the only people Daybell told about a vision he said he’d had of Tammy’s death.

Quoted from https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/06/18/ ... uses-gone/, since from Europe I cannot access the direct link for Nancy Grace at Fox Nation.

Yea, Julie has to be taken with a grain of salt, she’s not trustworthy. While I can believe Chad didn't just start with his adulterous inclinations with Lori, I am skeptical of Julie claiming he made sexual advances to her. Because of her initial defense of him in December. Jer first video she totally vouched for his character, and how could she do so, if everything she's said about him since has been things that show he's a liar and a fraud, and now even a philanderer? To me, it shows how dishonest or mentally ill Julie Rowe is. Some of what she says is likely true, but clearly not all of it, since she's been caught many times making contradictory claims.

inho wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:40 am Anyway, it seems that Tylee just disappeared suddenly. I never believed the theory that she was buried somewhere in Yellowstone. I doubted it, because I thought they would be more clever and come up some reasonable explanation to her disappearance. Otherwise JJ would start asking questions. But now it seems that one day the visit Yellowstone and the next day she is gone. How did they explain this to JJ?

That she was away at college. Even though they lived right there in Rexburg where BYUI is located - Lori apparently made it sound like Tylee was living on campus while attending BYUI - which of course, was a complete lie - Tyler was never registered at that, or any, college. JJ was only 7, and he would have believed anything his 'mother' told him. Lori told many people that's where Tylee was, so it's probably what she told JJ, as well.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 7:22 pm A small detail I forgot to add —— in the text exchange Chad had with Tammy, the morning that he and Alex dismembered and burned Tylee’s body, where Chad told Tammy that he had burned the tree limbs, and shot a big raccoon and buried it in their “pet cemetery” this evil man then texted “Fun times!!” to the wife he would murder three weeks later.

That stood out to me, as well. Just sickening, utterly sickening - and it certainly goes to show his level of depravity. He's burying and burning children's bodies in his backyard, was making wedding plans with his whore, and no doubt plotting the murder of his wife - and to him, all this equals, "Fun times!!". The level of evil of these people is just mind-blowing.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2020, 6:31 pmAlex’s cell phone seems to have never left his side. Chad’s texts to Tammy put himself with Alex in the spots where the bodies were recovered, and he tells Tammy he burned tree limbs, and buried a raccoon he shot that morning in their pet cemetery, the site of one of the children’s bodies. He’s up to his neck in this. Cellphones show that he can’t say Alex snuck onto his property in the middle of the night.

For sure, Chad has no way out of this. The trips to drop the children's bodies off at Chad's house were both in broad daylight. Digging big holes, carrying bodies, burning Tylee's body. I'm assuming Tammy was at work during all this? Were any of Chad's adult children living at Chad's house during this time (September)? Two of Chad's adult sons and a daughter-in-law (with a baby) lived there last fall and up until the bodies were found a couple weeks ago. Were any of them living there in September when all this was taking place? And there have been several big bonfires, beginning after Tammy was murdered (October 19), and then again this spring - so did Chad dig Tylee's remains up several times and attempt to burn them? If so, nobody noticed?? It just amazes me that all these things are going on in that yard, with several adults living in the house, and nobody suspected a thing - even with all the trouble Chad and Lori are in - with missing kids, etc. Where did they dismember Tylee - in that red barn? In Alex's apartment? There would be a huge amount of clean-up after such a grisly task - it should be fairly easy to determine if it happened in Chad's barn or Alex's Rexburg apartment (luminol, cadaver dogs).

Despite the ME stating Alex's death was due to "natural causes", I will forever believe he was murdered - mainly to keep him quiet (and possibly for life insurance? haven't been able to verify). He knew too much, and could easily, single-handedly put Chad and Lori away for life, if he were so inclined. He had to go, and I do not believe his death occurring the day after they dug Tammy's body up for an autopsy, was a coincidence. Zulema factors into this a great deal. Her history shows she was very familiar with drugs, and their 2-week old "marriage" was an utter sham, by all accounts. Alex was Chad's and Lori's "useful idiot", and with their spouses and minor children gone, they didn't need him anymore - he was nothing but a liability.

What a sad, sad story this all is.

inho wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:32 amI hadn't realized that JJ disappeared when Melanie was still visiting Lori.

Yes, that was interesting and disturbing to find out. When Alex was carrying JJ back to Lori's apartment from his own that night - and Melanie's boyfriend, David Warwick, saw JJ with his head resting on Alex's should as he was carrying him. I have to wonder if JJ was already dead when Warwick saw this, but just assumed JJ was asleep? Nobody ever saw JJ again after that night.

Speaking of Warwick - he's another of these Preparing a People/AVOW/last days/prophecy gurus. He's been mentioned on several different threads on LDSFF over the years, as a search will show.

jmack wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 8:19 am Yea, Julie has to be taken with a grain of salt, she’s not trustworthy. While I can believe Chad didn't just start with his adulterous inclinations with Lori, I am skeptical of Julie claiming he made sexual advances to her. Because of her initial defense of him in December. Jer first video she totally vouched for his character, and how could she do so, if everything she's said about him since has been things that show he's a liar and a fraud, and now even a philanderer? To me, it shows how dishonest or mentally ill Julie Rowe is. Some of what she says is likely true, but clearly not all of it, since she's been caught many times making contradictory claims.

Exactly. If Chad had tried to rape Rowe, or tried to get her to have sex with him a year or two ago, it sure seems strange that she would speak so glowingly of him last December. I wonder what her husband, Jeff, thinks about all this.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:00 pm

jmack wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 8:19 am Yea, Julie has to be taken with a grain of salt, she’s not trustworthy. While I can believe Chad didn't just start with his adulterous inclinations with Lori, I am skeptical of Julie claiming he made sexual advances to her. Because of her initial defense of him in December. Jer first video she totally vouched for his character, and how could she do so, if everything she's said about him since has been things that show he's a liar and a fraud, and now even a philanderer? To me, it shows how dishonest or mentally ill Julie Rowe is. Some of what she says is likely true, but clearly not all of it, since she's been caught many times making contradictory claims.

Exactly. If Chad had tried to rape Rowe, or tried to get her to have sex with him a year or two ago, it sure seems strange that she would speak so glowingly of him last December. I wonder what her husband, Jeff, thinks about all this.

The article speaks of "sexual advances", not about harassment. It could have been just flirting. I could believe that Chad did act in improper way towards the woman in Arizona (perhaps there were some flirtatious text messages). And since it is Julie Rowe telling the story, she just have to make it about herself. And so she claims that Chad did that to her too.

But that is just my opinion.

inho wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:14 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:00 pm

jmack wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 8:19 am Yea, Julie has to be taken with a grain of salt, she’s not trustworthy. While I can believe Chad didn't just start with his adulterous inclinations with Lori, I am skeptical of Julie claiming he made sexual advances to her. Because of her initial defense of him in December. Jer first video she totally vouched for his character, and how could she do so, if everything she's said about him since has been things that show he's a liar and a fraud, and now even a philanderer? To me, it shows how dishonest or mentally ill Julie Rowe is. Some of what she says is likely true, but clearly not all of it, since she's been caught many times making contradictory claims.

Exactly. If Chad had tried to rape Rowe, or tried to get her to have sex with him a year or two ago, it sure seems strange that she would speak so glowingly of him last December. I wonder what her husband, Jeff, thinks about all this.

The article speaks of "sexual advances", not about harassment. It could have been just flirting. I could believe that Chad did act in improper way towards the woman in Arizona (perhaps there were some flirtatious text messages). And since it is Julie Rowe telling the story, she just have to make it about herself. And so she claims that Chad did that to her too.

But that is just my opinion.

I don't know what article you're referring to, but Julie Rowe told Inside Edition this (below). Maybe where you're from, that's "flirting", but to most people, what she describes is indeed sexual harassment, if not attempted rape. Having said that, I do not believe a word Rowe says about anything.

https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive ... ward-women

Exclusive: Chad Daybell Allegations of Sexual Assault and Other 'Predatory' Behavior Toward Women Surface
June 19, 2020 - KAELYN FORDE

Chad Daybell allegedly sexually assaulted a female author with whom he worked while they were in a private meeting in December 2018, an incident that was part of a pattern of inappropriate and sometimes "predatory" behavior toward women, multiple sources told Inside Edition Digital.

Julie Rowe is an author who published multiple books with Chad between 2014 and 2017. She said that during a meeting and energy healing session with him in Rexburg, Idaho in mid-December 2018, Chad forcibly kissed her, got on top of her and while they were clothed, rubbed his genitals against her body.

"I had no idea that he was going to do what he did to me, and I felt very betrayed," Rowe told Inside Edition Digital of the incident, which she has not spoken about publicly before. "I felt used, abused, manipulated. I felt betrayed. It was awful."

Rowe did not report her sexual assault allegations to police. Inside Edition Digital confirmed with two people that Rowe shared her account of what happened at the time she said it occurred. Those individuals were a member of her security team and Eric Smith, an Idaho-based author.

Rowe claimed the assault by Chad during the December meeting came after he made an inappropriate comment to her over the phone in October 2018. Rowe, who is married with children, said that other than riding in a car with Chad two times during the course of their working relationship, she had never been alone with him before, and was shocked by his behavior. Chad's attorney, John Prior, did not respond to Inside Edition Digital's requests for comment about Rowe's allegations.

'Luring' women

Smith, who said he once considered Chad a friend, now believes Chad used his spiritual knowledge and gifts to "lure" women in.

"This ability he had to present himself as a real pious person with humility—like a guru—I think he used that. I think he worked that angle on people," Smith told Inside Edition Digital.

"He was sort of preying on their religious backgrounds and beliefs and spirituality," Smith added. "I know Chad is a gifted person spiritually, he does see things, I know he does, and I've tested him on that and we have some very special conversations on spiritual matters. But when you start to use those gifts to take advantage of people, I think that's pretty sick and I think you've crossed a line there."

The member of Rowe's security team, who asked that his name not be published, said he witnessed Chad manipulate women at the five or six conferences he attended where Chad spoke.

"Chad was using this doctrine to groom women, to get them to do something that normally they wouldn't do," the security team member said. "Or in other words, give up their creative power to him, for his own gain. He was no longer following the creator's plan of agency, but he was trying to get women to do things that would give him more power."

Cult of personality

Chad rose to prominence as an author and publisher after writing fictional books for a largely Mormon audience, including ones that depicted life in an apocalyptic United States before the second coming of Jesus Christ. Lisa, a woman from Utah who asked Inside Edition Digital not to use her real name, said she met Chad in 2007 or 2008 after reading several of his books, and helped organize speaking events for him where he would sell them.

"When I first met him, I didn't suspect anything. We were selling his books and he was happy to get money. I liked his writing style, other people did too," Lisa told Inside Edition Digital. "Women would ask him for advice, and I don't know if men did, but I know women would ask for his advice because they felt he had some insight maybe they didn't."

Lisa said she was interested in his views on signs to watch for ahead of the second coming of Jesus.

"There are certain events, a sequence of events, and because he put it into a fictional story and people are looking forward to that happening, I think what gathered people in was that type of thing. They're looking for some types of clues or information about getting closer to the second coming of Christ," Lisa said.

While men attended these events too, Lisa said, there was a large group of women interested in Chad's work. Rowe's security team member and Smith observed the same trend.

"Women tend to be a lot at these meetings because they're more in tune with their emotions, with the energy of what's going on, more empathetic," the security team member said. "They would always come to him. Sometimes he would have a table with his books, and be talking. I observed that sometimes he would stand to the side and talk privately, and a few times he would talk privately to just a single woman or a group of women."

Smith said he attended several events in people's homes where Chad spoke, and one of them was organized by a small group of women in Rexburg who were interested in talking about polygamy.

"They were the ones that hosted Chad at one of these particular events, and he was kind of clinging around them. He liked them, I could tell," Smith said. "I kind of sensed, in some of those conversations, they were discussing some yucky stuff. I honestly don't know if Chad had conversations with them about those things, but I do know that there are little groups of women, different groups, that were interested in those really fringe things that are pretty inappropriate and divisive for families."

Multiple probations

Rowe and Smith said Chad made lists of who he believed people had been in their past lives. Rowe said during meetings at the Brigham Young University Idaho campus, Chad would share those lists with her.

"Every time I'd see him, a month later, there would be like more and more people on this list," she explained. "He would try to use my gifts to ask questions and to see if I would confirm for him some of what he was being told."

In addition to mapping people's past lives, Chad was also assigning people numbers related to their "estate level" or "ascension level" and whether their spirit was light or dark, Rowe said. In an Oct. 30, 2018 email obtained by FOX 10 Phoenix from Chad to Lori, Chad ranked Lori's family, including her husband, Charles Vallow, and children, JJ, Tylee and Colby Ryan. Rowe said Chad had sent her a similar list ranking her own family members.

But Rowe said she was disturbed by Chad's lists, believing it was not his place to judge people in that way. Her husband expressed his concerns, too.

"I was really disturbed that he was ranking people in the church and people in his ward," Rowe said.

But other people seemed to be fascinated about Chad's views on their past lives, which are also called "multiple probations." Smith helped organize two speaking engagements for Chad at homes in the Rexburg area, and said people were especially interested when Chad told them they had been a famous person, like Joan of Arc, in a past life.

"He was a self-appointed prophet or something to these people. He would make appointments, and go over to their home, and present their little life history to them. That'd be pretty cool, right?" Smith said. "You'd know who you were, and when you lived and where, and what you did. That's pretty appealing to people. I could count on two hands, probably, people that I know personally that he did that with, including me."

Chad's soft-spoken, humble demeanor was also part of his appeal, the security team member said.

"He was always very careful, and he used the awkwardness, the social awkwardness to his advantage to kind of dupe people," he said. "He even had the persona of being a little bit overweight, bad haircut, dressed kind of like a socially awkward person."

At the bigger conferences, women approached Chad to ask about their past lives, too, the security team member said.

"These women would want to know things, and he put himself out there like he could see things, so they would say, 'Well, who was I?' Having multiple lives is not a new doctrine," he said. "There's many religions that believe in it a lot. And lots of people believe in it. It's not uncommon. What's uncommon is what Chad did with it."

Looking for someone

It was at one of those events in St. George, Utah, in the fall of 2018 that Chad met Lori Vallow, a married mother of three from Arizona. Chad told Lori that they had been married in a past life, according to their friend, Melanie Gibb.

Lisa said Lori started helping sell Chad's books at the event, where Lisa also had a booth, and "Lori was really flirty with him."

But in this life, Chad and Lori were also married — to different people. Still, Chad and Lori quickly became close, Gibb told EastIdahoNews.com, and one of the three cellphones Lori used was just for Chad. Rowe said Chad also asked her to call him on this separate phone, something she found odd.

Lisa traveled from Utah to attend the Mesa, Arizona Preparing a People conference where Chad was speaking the weekend before Thanksgiving in 2018. To save money on hotel rooms, Lori offered to let Lisa, Chad, Gibb and others stay overnight at her Gilbert, Arizona, home while her husband and children were out of town.

Lisa said the group of all women and Chad made cookies and talked the night before the conference, which was held on Nov. 16 and 17.

Then, Lisa said, she walked in on Chad and Lori discussing the sleeping arrangements in the kitchen. Chad said he planned to sleep in Lori's son's room, but seemed nervous, she said. Lisa said she had never seen Chad behave inappropriately toward women, and only later realized why he seemed uncomfortable.

"I only got the end part of it, but all I knew was he was concerned that people would see him there at the house, even though he was in the bedroom. And I thought, 'Well, so what?'" Lisa said. "But now I see why he was concerned. If you look back, you go, 'Oh, that's why, because they were having an affair.'"

Alleged assault

Rowe said when she first met Chad in 2014, he was professional and appropriate, and she observed that he seemed to love his wife, Tammy.

Rowe and Chad had originally connected on LDS AVOW, an online end-times preparedness website, in February of that year. Rowe said she had decided to write about the dreams and visions she had after a near-death experience in 2004, during which she spent two and a half days in a comatose state.

Chad had written books about his own near-death experiences, and Rowe said she and Chad bonded over talking about them. She said she trusted Chad and became close with Tammy as well from 2014 to 2018. But in 2018, she started noticing some shifts in Chad but believed they were meant to continue publishing books.

"My husband knew very early on that Chad was off, and he would actually say to me, 'Are you sure you can trust Chad?' I'm like, 'Well, I don't trust everything he says, and I don't agree with what he's writing and what he's doing, but God brought us together,'" Rowe said.

In December of 2018, Rowe and Chad met at a restaurant in Idaho Falls for a breakfast meeting about publishing. Later that day, they met privately for an energy healing session in Rexburg; Rowe does energy work. That's when she said the sexual assault occurred. Rowe said Chad cried after he assaulted her and that she tried to talk to him about his behavior later that day and in a series of text messages that December.

After the alleged sexual misconduct, Rowe said, she came to believe that Chad had been "grooming" her and using discussions about spiritual beliefs to get close to and use her.

Then, Rowe said, she confronted Chad about the alleged misconduct in several text messages in early 2019.

"In February, I confronted him on what he had done to me in December and what he had been doing to me all along when I finally woke up to the fact that he was using me and using my gifts," Rowe said. "It was unfathomable to me that he would use me like that, and when I confronted him on his patriarchal energy, which is, in my opinion, abusive energy, and his abuse of me and my gifts and using me, then he basically sent a text back and said, 'Wow, you really know how to burn bridges. I can't believe you. You don't know me at all.'"

That December meeting was the last time Rowe ever saw Chad in person. Rowe was working on her podcast, writing an autobiography, Rising Above the Flames, and growing her nonprofit organization, the Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund. Rowe said she texted Chad about publishing rights issues during the spring of 2019. After she wrote him a handwritten letter in the summer of 2019, she said, Chad called her in the fall and said something that disturbed her.

"Three weeks before Tammy dies, he said to me, and he was in this frustrated voice, 'My plan can't move forward until Tammy's dead,' or 'until Tammy dies,'" Rowe said, explaining she believes Chad was referring to his "life plan," or the plan that God had for him. "I was disheartened, I was very disturbed by that."

On Oct. 19, Tammy was found dead at the couple's home in Rexburg. Chad and Lori wed weeks later in Hawaii.

While Tammy's death was ruled to be from natural causes, her body was exhumed and the results of an autopsy are still pending, according to authorities. Chad and Lori are now under investigation by the Idaho Attorney General's office for "conspiracy, attempted murder and/or murder." Neither Chad nor Lori have been charged with any crime in connection to Tammy's death and both deny any wrongdoing.

Both Chad and Lori are now being held on $1 million bail, facing felony charges in the disappearance of Lori's two children, JJ and Tylee, who were last seen in September. Lori faces felony charges of deserting them, and Chad faces felony charges of willfully destroying, concealing or altering evidence after human remains found on his property were identified as his wife's missing children.

Chad and Lori have pleaded not guilty and denied all allegations of wrongdoing.

Those who knew Chad are struggling to reconcile the person who has been accused of these crimes with the person they knew. But there were signs, Rowe said.

"When I think of somebody who's predatory towards women, and I think of how Chad has fit that, I look at all of the women who believed that he was working for the light side," Rowe said. "I believe for a time he was, but people change."

Smith said he is now being ostracized by some in his family because he was once friends with Chad.

"It's unfortunate how many lives can be affected by one choice," he said. "It just makes me wonder if Chad just had unfulfilled desires, and then, mix that with the gifts and the position and status and his ability to appeal to people, and it just created this perfect firestorm of scandal."

Julie Rowe should keep her mouth shut if she doesn’t want to facing charges herself.

In this article, she says that she had only seen Chad in person twice, and was never alone with him, during their coauthorship of books, then she later says that she visited the Daybell’s often in Idaho until Chad told her not to come anymore. Which is it. Twice? Or, often? And what about all the times she has said that she saw the Daybell family hike they lived in Springville? That’s not in this article, but it’s in other places where she ad nauseum tells her life story.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11909778/ ... ted-woman/

Remember, she specifically said in a recent podcast with Eric, that her angels told her that she would be getting some major publicity, and now she knows it’s happening because of this case. She is totally unbelievable, and she is out there begging for interviews. I hope Nancy Grace chews her up and spits her out (because Nance Grace is good at that sort of thing!).

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 20th, 2020, 2:27 pm I don't know what article you're referring to, but Julie Rowe told Inside Edition this (below).

Since your post was reply to jmack's post which was reply to my post, I thought you were talking about the article I quoted. I hadn't read the Inside Edition article. Has the Nancy Grace episode at Fox Nation aired yet? Does Julie make the same claims there or has she embellish the story to get even more media attention?

EDIT:
This is what I quoted, doesn't sound nearly as bad as what Julie told Inside Edition:

A close former friend of doomsday author Chad Daybell says that the husband of “cult mom” Lori Vallow made sexual advance toward her and other women before meeting Vallow and before his wife’s mysterious death.

Julie Rowe, an author and self-proclaimed clairvoyant, spoke to CrimeOnline’s Nancy Grace for her upcoming Fox Nation special, “A Lori Vallow Investigation With Nancy Grace.”

...

Rowe told Grace that there was another woman in Arizona before Lori Vallow whom Chad had been texting. That went haywire when the woman’s husband intercepted the texts and told Daybell he’d go public with them if Daybell didn’t leave his wife alone. Rowe, who said Daybell had also made sexual advances toward her, said that as far as she knew, she and the Arizona woman were the only people Daybell told about a vision he said he’d had of Tammy’s death.

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/06/18/ ... uses-gone/

https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive ... ward-women

Exclusive: Chad Daybell Allegations of Sexual Assault and Other 'Predatory' Behavior Toward Women Surface
June 19, 2020 - KAELYN FORDE

"Three weeks before Tammy dies, he said to me, and he was in this frustrated voice, 'My plan can't move forward until Tammy's dead,' or 'until Tammy dies,'" Rowe said, explaining she believes Chad was referring to his "life plan," or the plan that God had for him. "I was disheartened, I was very disturbed by that."

On Oct. 19, Tammy was found dead at the couple's home in Rexburg. Chad and Lori wed weeks later in Hawaii.

Not surprisingly Julie Rowe left out the part of the story where her angels had told her that "Tammy is almost graduated from mortality". That was on the first Eyes open video about Chad. But at that time Julie still believed that Chad and Lori were innocent and that Tammy's death was natural.