Church response to news about its finances

[ori]

http://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org ... t-finances

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uses the sacred tithes and generous donations of its members in worldwide efforts to love God and neighbor. In light of recent media stories that have misrepresented the Church’s approach, the Church provides the following summary...."

Read the article for details.

[Rick Grimes]

Just saw this in my email too. This is a PR nightmare for them. People must be threatening to stop paying tithing and such. Or they are afraid that members will demand transparency for these funds and how they are being spent. Neither prospect, I'm sure, is palatable to them.

[largerthanlife]

Why are they avoiding the real questions? How much money does EPA manage and does the fund ever use money for charity? They throw out a 2.2 billion figure for charity but its for 34 years. Many devout members want to know why they have lived on rice and beans while the EPA managers get steak and lobster.

[righteousrepublic]

Ye receive no witness until AFTER the trial of your faith. Ether 12:6

I will try the faith of my people. 3 Nephi 26:11

[inho]

Church even quotes D. Michael Quinn! It's not often when Church qoutes excommunicated members.

D. Michael Quinn, a scholar who published a 600-page history of Church finances in 2017, summed up his findings as “an enormously faith-promoting story.” He told a newspaper reporter that if Latter-day Saints could see “the larger picture,” they would “breathe a sigh of relief and see the church is not a profit-making business.”

Yet, here the quote was perfect. I, too, liked that citation:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=46937&p=817735#p817735
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=46937&p=817977#p817977

[Trucker]

I don't think anyone is saying the church doesn't have expenses to run itself and that it doesn't provide at least some humanitarian relief. The question that the public and a lot of most members are concerned about is in what ratio? The church is describing what it does, characterizing what it spends money on, but doesn't give many numbers. Ok, but I don't think people are convinced. Trust is eroding.

It's not convincing to a lot of people that funding your own temples, your own programs that are for your own organization, is really charity or "worldwide efforts to love God and charity." "We have expensive temples to maintain" isn't going to convince many people.

But this part about the missionary program is not exactly forthright:

"The Church supports a global missionary program. Currently, more than 65,000 Latter-day Saint missionaries around the world are preaching the good news of Jesus Christ — an effort that requires significant financial support from the Church beyond the missionaries’ personal or family contributions. The faith’s approximately 400 missions include mission homes, apartments, offices and automobiles — all funded by the Church"

Is it really fair to say that it is all funded by the church when missionaries have to pay $500 for their mission? I'm not saying they shouldn't pay. I'm saying I don't think the church can say it's all funded by the church.

Also, the section about welfare implies that the church somehow supports the needy out of its big bucket that has been reported in the news. Direct aid comes from local fast offering donations, not from tithing.

"In addition, through the Church’s welfare program, leaders of the faith’s 30,000-plus congregations regularly help men, women and children with food, housing and other temporal needs, totaling billions more dollars in assistance."

They keep trying to lump the missionary payment, fast offerings, and everything that could fall under the umbrella of the church as being funded "by the church" and I think that is misleading.

They could of course open the books a little and let people see how they use their funds, rather than just characterize it, but they'll never voluntarily do that. Not even to the members, who should have some knowledge in order to give consent on their use. They don't have to do this, but there's going to be no improvement of trust in the eye of the public. They will be dealing with this for generations.

[Trucker]

Maybe I should start a "Tithing Account" at my bank and put my tithing in it rather than give it to the church. I could then save for a rainy day for when I can't pay my tithing, or fast offerings, or mission expenses. I can probably get.a good rate on return, and it would all be tax free. So I would be able to give a lot more to the church in the future when they really need it.

Actually, maybe someone can start a Tithing Fund that we can all invest in, and then be able to give the church a lot more money in the future, when they really need it on a rainy day.

[Trucker]

The church has used more funds on City Creek Center than on humanitarian aid in the past 24 years.

"The most recent annual report shows that the Church’s humanitarian arm has given more than $2.2 billion in aid in 197 countries since it was created in 1985."

City Creek Center is estimated to cost $5 billion, and the church disbursed at least $1.2 billion from the Ensign Peak Fund to the mall, according to the docs from the whistleblower.

Is this where our heart is? Is this consisted with following Jesus?

The church has also quantified "volunteer time" in monetary terms so that efforts like Mormon Helping Hands is counted in dollar values. So it may not even be $2.2 billion actual dollars, but $2.2 billion dollars worth. But even if it is, we have as much money for luxury apartment developments, and building malls, and commercial ventures as we do humanitarian funds.

[Lexew1899]

Here is a video response from the church, a new policy.

[Sunain]

In times of need and during other emergencies, we partner with many global organizations like the Red Cross to provide assistance.

Well the first paragraph isn't very good. The Red Cross is a very corrupt organization, especially with money. Saying we're partnering with them when talking about finances wasn't a smart move.

https://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/48202043 ... s-finances
https://www.npr.org/2015/06/03/41152415 ... iti-relief
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-41861552
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aid- ... SKBN1D72HR

[LDS Watchman]

I don't think anyone is saying the church doesn't have expenses to run itself and that it doesn't provide at least some humanitarian relief. The question that the public and a lot of most members are concerned about is in what ratio? The church is describing what it does, characterizing what it spends money on, but doesn't give many numbers. Ok, but I don't think people are convinced. Trust is eroding.

It's not convincing to a lot of people that funding your own temples, your own programs that are for your own organization, is really charity or "worldwide efforts to love God and charity." "We have expensive temples to maintain" isn't going to convince many people.

But this part about the missionary program is not exactly forthright:

"The Church supports a global missionary program. Currently, more than 65,000 Latter-day Saint missionaries around the world are preaching the good news of Jesus Christ — an effort that requires significant financial support from the Church beyond the missionaries’ personal or family contributions. The faith’s approximately 400 missions include mission homes, apartments, offices and automobiles — all funded by the Church"

Is it really fair to say that it is all funded by the church when missionaries have to pay $500 for their mission? I'm not saying they shouldn't pay. I'm saying I don't think the church can say it's all funded by the church.

Also, the section about welfare implies that the church somehow supports the needy out of its big bucket that has been reported in the news. Direct aid comes from local fast offering donations, not from tithing.

"In addition, through the Church’s welfare program, leaders of the faith’s 30,000-plus congregations regularly help men, women and children with food, housing and other temporal needs, totaling billions more dollars in assistance."

They keep trying to lump the missionary payment, fast offerings, and everything that could fall under the umbrella of the church as being funded "by the church" and I think that is misleading.

They could of course open the books a little and let people see how they use their funds, rather than just characterize it, but they'll never voluntarily do that. Not even to the members, who should have some knowledge in order to give consent on their use. They don't have to do this, but there's going to be no improvement of trust in the eye of the public. They will be dealing with this for generations.

Someday the books will be opened for all the world to see and I'm completely convinced that those who have put their blind faith in the brethren and the corporate church will be shocked at how the Lord's money has been used.

[Chip]

It's too bad they refuse to be honest and just address the concerns people obviously have. Throwing up lots of chaff is like feeding people a junkfood diet while assuring them they're being given the best nutrition.

I really think we are living in the time Daniel saw, where all secrets are being made known.

Weird that they brag about giving $2.2B to charity over the last 34 years on the heels of $100B of secretive money being exposed.

Is this not fulfillment of the BoM prophecy about caring more about adorning fine sanctuaries and wearing costly clothing than taking care of the poor?

[Lizzy60]

This response they published, with so much false doctrine and words meant to deceive the members, will condemn them as much as the billions they are hoarding, according to the prophecies of the Last Days given by numerous scriptural prophets who saw our day and wrote about what they saw as a warning.

[Trucker]

Here is a video response from the church, a new policy.

It makes we wonder....most of what we see of our church leaders is what they say in General Conference. Maybe that's actually not healthy. Maybe there needs to be more open working together instead of us just going off of what they tell us.

[Trucker]

I remember the opening of City Creek Mall. The entire First Presidency was there, along with the Presiding Bishop and an apostle or two. President Eyring spoke. Pres Monson, President Burton, and I think Elder Cook held the ribbon for the ribbon cutting. The church had press releases. And the ads...all along the roads with the women in backless dresses holding champagne. I was there. I remember.

The price tag was in the billions. Somehow that was important to the church. And so important that the top church leaders had to be a central, active part of it.

Church leaders got awards. They said it was necessary to build the mall to preserve the area around the temple. But it couldn't just be a mall. It needed to be a luxury mall, with the best brands in the world. A retractable roof costing $500 million. This was what was needed.

I do think that many in the church find no problem with all this because it is part of their religion. Their religion is a prosperity gospel. Caring for the needy just breeds dependency. Being wealthy is a indication of being a wise steward, of multiplying your talents, and understanding true principles of finances. That enables people and organization to do things in this world. They don't feel any guilt because they don't see anything wrong. That's part of their religion.


President Monson holding the ribbon (3 from the center on our right)


President Eyring speaking

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... talization

[Trucker]

The church received lots of awards on the project. Magazines showcased the new mall. Architecture magazines gave awards on the retractable roof. President Burton was honored by the Salt Lake Chamber as the "Giant in Our City" and the church releases a press release about it. All the world loved it.

But I am thinking...No other success can compensate for failure in the home church.

We don't measure success by praise of the world, or in dollar figures.

[Michelle]

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[Michelle]

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[Trucker]

I remember the opening of City Creek Mall. The entire First Presidency was there, along with the Presiding Bishop and an apostle or two. President Eyring spoke. Pres Monson, President Burton, and I think Elder Cook held the ribbon for the ribbon cutting. The church had press releases. And the ads...all along the roads with the women in backless dresses holding champagne. I was there. I remember.

The price tag was in the billions. Somehow that was important to the church. And so important that the top church leaders had to be a central, active part of it.

Church leaders got awards. They said it was necessary to build the mall to preserve the area around the temple. But it couldn't just be a mall. It needed to be a luxury mall, with the best brands in the world. A retractable roof costing $500 million. This was what was needed.

I do think that many in the church find no problem with all this because it is part of their religion. Their religion is a prosperity gospel. Caring for the needy just breeds dependency. Being wealthy is a indication of being a wise steward, of multiplying your talents, and understanding true principles of finances. That enables people and organization to do things in this world. They don't feel any guilt because they don't see anything wrong. That's part of their religion.


President Monson holding the ribbon (3 from the center on our right)


President Eyring speaking

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... talization

I believe this location, and other similar locations built by the Church will be used as places of gathering and refuge in the days to come. What it is today, is not what it will be in the future. What a great way to use the space well now, and then.

You think the City Creek Mall will be used as a place of gathering? Wow that's really surprising to me. To me, that seems like such an extreme mental gymnastic to justify this and it is staggering. I could see the girls camps, or farmlands, but a luxury mall? That seems really a stretch.

[Lexew1899]

I believe this is a shifting event for the Lord to see who he needs to burn with fire upon his return. Those who support getting in bed with Babylon, or those who speak out against these things.

[Lexew1899]

D&C 86:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants, concerning the parable of the wheat and of the tares:
2 Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;
3 And after they have fallen asleep the great persecutor of the church, the apostate, the whore, even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup, in whose hearts the enemy, even Satan, sitteth to reign—behold he soweth the tares; wherefore, the tares choke the wheat and drive the church into the wilderness.
4 But behold, in the last days, even now while the Lord is beginning to bring forth the word, and the blade is springing up and is yet tender—
5 Behold, verily I say unto you, the angels are crying unto the Lord day and night, who are ready and waiting to be sent forth to reap down the fields;
6 But the Lord saith unto them, pluck not up the tares while the blade is yet tender (for verily your faith is weak), lest you destroy the wheat also.
7 Therefore, let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest is fully ripe; then ye shall first gather out the wheat from among the tares, and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and lo, the tares are bound in bundles, and the field remaineth to be burned.
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord unto you, with whom the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers—
9 For ye are lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world with Christ in God—
10 Therefore your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began.

11 Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood, a savior unto my people Israel. The Lord hath said it. Amen.

[nightlight]

Just saw this in my email too. This is a PR nightmare for them. People must be threatening to stop paying tithing and such. Or they are afraid that members will demand transparency for these funds and how they are being spent. Neither prospect, I'm sure, is palatable to them.

A few years ago I was told by the Holy Spirit "Follow the Prophet no matter what." It came out of nowhere, so I replied, "I had no intention of doing otherwise." He then told me that "many would be leaving the Church because they did not have their own testimonies of Christ. And that the day would soon come that it would be embarrassing to be known as a member. (I don't share this to profess revelation for others or the Church, but as an explanation as to why this doesn't bother me as much as it might others. That this personal revelation I received for myself helps me to stand firm.)

As various things have happened over the last few years, I have seen group after group renounce the church based on a variety of reasons/pet peeves/concerns and some leave.

Each time I think the Lord must be sad they are leaving, but that those who remain faithful see better and better who they can trust in the tribulations that are coming. It is blessing to the righteous and a cursing to the wicked: a double-edged sword.

The Lord doesn't send any away, but He does allow those who are not committed to sift themselves out.

It may be a "PR nightmare," but it is also a great gift to the righteous.

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Chip]

I remember the opening of City Creek Mall. The entire First Presidency was there, along with the Presiding Bishop and an apostle or two. President Eyring spoke. Pres Monson, President Burton, and I think Elder Cook held the ribbon for the ribbon cutting. The church had press releases. And the ads...all along the roads with the women in backless dresses holding champagne. I was there. I remember.

The price tag was in the billions. Somehow that was important to the church. And so important that the top church leaders had to be a central, active part of it.

Church leaders got awards. They said it was necessary to build the mall to preserve the area around the temple. But it couldn't just be a mall. It needed to be a luxury mall, with the best brands in the world. A retractable roof costing $500 million. This was what was needed.

I do think that many in the church find no problem with all this because it is part of their religion. Their religion is a prosperity gospel. Caring for the needy just breeds dependency. Being wealthy is a indication of being a wise steward, of multiplying your talents, and understanding true principles of finances. That enables people and organization to do things in this world. They don't feel any guilt because they don't see anything wrong. That's part of their religion.


President Monson holding the ribbon (3 from the center on our right)


President Eyring speaking

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... talization

I believe this location, and other similar locations built by the Church will be used as places of gathering and refuge in the days to come. What it is today, is not what it will be in the future. What a great way to use the space well now, and then.

You think the City Creek Mall will be used as a place of gathering? Wow that's really surprising to me. To me, that seems like such an extreme mental gymnastic to justify this and it is staggering. I could see the girls camps, or farmlands, but a luxury mall? That seems really a stretch.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

http://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org ... t-finances

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uses the sacred tithes and generous donations of its members in worldwide efforts to love God and neighbor. In light of recent media stories that have misrepresented the Church’s approach, the Church provides the following summary...."

Read the article for details.

I don't know about burning, sifting and all that other stuff. However, someone in marketing and PR needs to work on optics. For example, this video. Who staged this interview? You have the presiding bishopric discussing the use of Church finances; while sitting in front of very expensive French vase, gold plated curtain holders, and gold plated mirrors in the background. The message is claiming humility, thrift and simplicity. Yet the background and setting is subtly saying luxury, wealth and mild opulence. The vase is almost screaming out from every shot "look at me". Maybe it was done on purpose. I believe there are people embedded in the media/ PR and Church Offices department that secretly dislike the Church over the homo issue.

[evejaa]

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I declare I freely give my tithing to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and trust the leaders decisions in investing, giving and spending. There is no doubt in my mind of their righteous delegation of funds.

You may say this is a tax issue, I say it is a important issue that we need to show our support, post positive comments on social media about what our Church and Leaders do in the world. Find those positive articles and videos of Service and Charity and flood the internet with the Churches message of giving, till we are exonerated.

To non members you may not understand this devotion, to my LDS brothers and sisters, do not speak ill of our leaders, our church or our God. God is at the head of our church. You either believe it or you don't.