Christmas Sunday Sacrament Meeting

[LadyT]

I loved the one hour church. I wish church was one hour all the time. It was the best.

[Robin Hood]

I loved the one hour church. I wish church was one hour all the time. It was the best.

It is if you just leave after sacrament meeting.

[LadyT]

I loved the one hour church. I wish church was one hour all the time. It was the best.

It is if you just leave after sacrament meeting.

Can't. I have kids. If it was just me, I would in a heartbeat.

[JohnDoeDoe]

I loved the one hour church. I wish church was one hour all the time. It was the best.

It is if you just leave after sacrament meeting.

Can't. I have kids. If it was just me, I would in a heartbeat.

You could still leave after one hour.

Hate to break it to you but if you don't want to be there for the 2nd hour but you go only because of your kids-your kids will very easily pick up on it (i.e. that you don't want to be there).

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it.

[LadyT]

I loved the one hour church. I wish church was one hour all the time. It was the best.

It is if you just leave after sacrament meeting.

Can't. I have kids. If it was just me, I would in a heartbeat.

You could still leave after one hour.

Hate to break it to you but if you don't want to be there for the 2nd hour but you go only because of your kids-your kids will very easily pick up on it (i.e. that you don't want to be there).

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it.

I never said church isn't important. My kids know what I believe. We talk about it all the time.
I don't have to like the second hour classes to believe the gospel is true.

And the baby only cares that she gets to go play in nursery.

[JohnDoeDoe]

It is if you just leave after sacrament meeting.

Can't. I have kids. If it was just me, I would in a heartbeat.

You could still leave after one hour.

Hate to break it to you but if you don't want to be there for the 2nd hour but you go only because of your kids-your kids will very easily pick up on it (i.e. that you don't want to be there).

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it.

I never said church isn't important. My kids know what I believe. We talk about it all the time.
I don't have to like the second hour classes to believe the gospel is true.

And the baby only cares that she gets to go play in nursery.

Only part of Church is important then? Only the first hour? I never said you had to attend both hours to believe the Gospel is true.

I'm only stating the lesson you are teaching your children-which isn't a good one. If you give a gift unwillingly it is counted as an evil gift. A type of gift is our time-if you are giving time unwillingly to the Church it is counted as an evil gift.

If you don't want to go to the 2nd hour-then DON'T GO.. If you go to the 2nd hour, don't give some cockamammy excuse and blame your kids that you "have to go" for the 2nd hour. Be an adult and own up to your decisions instead of blaming them for your decisions. You are the parent, you get to decide how the household is run. Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

[LadyT]

Can't. I have kids. If it was just me, I would in a heartbeat.

You could still leave after one hour.

Hate to break it to you but if you don't want to be there for the 2nd hour but you go only because of your kids-your kids will very easily pick up on it (i.e. that you don't want to be there).

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it.

I never said church isn't important. My kids know what I believe. We talk about it all the time.
I don't have to like the second hour classes to believe the gospel is true.

And the baby only cares that she gets to go play in nursery.

Only part of Church is important then? Only the first hour? I never said you had to attend both hours to believe the Gospel is true.

I'm only stating the lesson you are teaching your children-which isn't a good one. If you give a gift unwillingly it is counted as an evil gift. A type of gift is our time-if you are giving time unwillingly to the Church it is counted as an evil gift.

If you don't want to go to the 2nd hour-then DON'T GO.. If you go to the 2nd hour, don't give some cockamammy excuse and blame your kids that you "have to go" for the 2nd hour. Be an adult and own up to your decisions instead of blaming them for your decisions. You are the parent, you get to decide how the household is run. Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

If I don't stay my kids can't stay. My husband is busy with his calling and can't be there to help with the kids. My youngest is in nursery. My kids don't know that I don't like the second hour.
It's not an evil gift to do things that you don't like. It's part of life. Everyone does things that they don't like. You do it for the better good of your family.

Can you imagine a world where people only did the things that they liked? No more housework, work, dealing with people you don't like? The world would fall apart if people only did what they liked.

[JohnDoeDoe]

You could still leave after one hour.

Hate to break it to you but if you don't want to be there for the 2nd hour but you go only because of your kids-your kids will very easily pick up on it (i.e. that you don't want to be there).

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it.

I never said church isn't important. My kids know what I believe. We talk about it all the time.
I don't have to like the second hour classes to believe the gospel is true.

And the baby only cares that she gets to go play in nursery.

Only part of Church is important then? Only the first hour? I never said you had to attend both hours to believe the Gospel is true.

I'm only stating the lesson you are teaching your children-which isn't a good one. If you give a gift unwillingly it is counted as an evil gift. A type of gift is our time-if you are giving time unwillingly to the Church it is counted as an evil gift.

If you don't want to go to the 2nd hour-then DON'T GO.. If you go to the 2nd hour, don't give some cockamammy excuse and blame your kids that you "have to go" for the 2nd hour. Be an adult and own up to your decisions instead of blaming them for your decisions. You are the parent, you get to decide how the household is run. Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

If I don't stay my kids can't stay. My husband is busy with his calling and can't be there to help with the kids. My youngest is in nursery. My kids don't know that I don't like the second hour.
It's not an evil gift to do things that you don't like. It's part of life. Everyone does things that they don't like. You do it for the better good of your family.

Can you imagine a world where people only did the things that they liked? No more housework, work, dealing with people you don't like? The world would fall apart if people only did what they liked.

Okay, so the only reason you go to Church the 2nd hour is for you kids? So 2nd hour Church is important for your children to attend, but it's not important for you to attend? There is a word for that type of belief that Christ most certainly hated.

So what if your kids can't stay. I most certainly do not go for my kids-I go for me not for them. If I didn't feel going to 2nd hour is necessary, I wouldn't go. I refuse to be teach my children one thing and not live it myself. They will see that and they will eventually despise me for it. If I do not live or practice what I teach them with my HEART, they will absolutely know at some point that I do not actually believe what I'm teaching them-and that will be pretty bad if that happens. Living it with your heart, actions and then teaching it is called integrity of heart. If you teach something you don't believe or you heart isn't in it one lacks integrity.

There are plenty of scriptures which describe giving with the heart and not the outward manifestations. Several scriptures describe how if we do things (especially religiously) with the wrong heart-those things are counted AGAINST us.

I challenge you to study those scriptures, find them and look them up. You claim your kids don't know you don't like the second hour-but they will and they do. You may think you have never said an ill word about it to them, but your body language will betray you. At some point your dislike of it will betray you.

There is another way than your worldview. It's called change. No more housework? Why do you not like it? Can you not LEARN to like it? Why not deal with people you don't like? Can you not change and LEARN that maybe you need to learn something from them and them from you?

You are approaching this completely wrong. Which is, "I don't like it, but I'll do it anyways". That's not the final Christian message. It's a step along the way-but if that is where we leave it then the things we do are counted against us.

There are so many things in this life that I haven't liked, but then learned to like. It's called change and Christ requires us to give with a willing heart-not because we "have to".

[LadyT]

I never said church isn't important. My kids know what I believe. We talk about it all the time.
I don't have to like the second hour classes to believe the gospel is true.

And the baby only cares that she gets to go play in nursery.

Only part of Church is important then? Only the first hour? I never said you had to attend both hours to believe the Gospel is true.

I'm only stating the lesson you are teaching your children-which isn't a good one. If you give a gift unwillingly it is counted as an evil gift. A type of gift is our time-if you are giving time unwillingly to the Church it is counted as an evil gift.

If you don't want to go to the 2nd hour-then DON'T GO.. If you go to the 2nd hour, don't give some cockamammy excuse and blame your kids that you "have to go" for the 2nd hour. Be an adult and own up to your decisions instead of blaming them for your decisions. You are the parent, you get to decide how the household is run. Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

If I don't stay my kids can't stay. My husband is busy with his calling and can't be there to help with the kids. My youngest is in nursery. My kids don't know that I don't like the second hour.
It's not an evil gift to do things that you don't like. It's part of life. Everyone does things that they don't like. You do it for the better good of your family.

Can you imagine a world where people only did the things that they liked? No more housework, work, dealing with people you don't like? The world would fall apart if people only did what they liked.

Okay, so the only reason you go to Church the 2nd hour is for you kids? So 2nd hour Church is important for your children to attend, but it's not important for you to attend? There is a word for that type of belief that Christ most certainly hated.

So what if your kids can't stay. I most certainly do not go for my kids-I go for me not for them. If I didn't feel going to 2nd hour is necessary, I wouldn't go. I refuse to be teach my children one thing and not live it myself. They will see that and they will eventually despise me for it. If I do not live or practice what I teach them with my HEART, they will absolutely know at some point that I do not actually believe what I'm teaching them-and that will be pretty bad if that happens. Living it with your heart, actions and then teaching it is called integrity of heart. If you teach something you don't believe or you heart isn't in it one lacks integrity.

There are plenty of scriptures which describe giving with the heart and not the outward manifestations. Several scriptures describe how if we do things (especially religiously) with the wrong heart-those things are counted AGAINST us.

I challenge you to study those scriptures, find them and look them up. You claim your kids don't know you don't like the second hour-but they will and they do. You may think you have never said an ill word about it to them, but your body language will betray you. At some point your dislike of it will betray you.

There is another way than your worldview. It's called change. No more housework? Why do you not like it? Can you not LEARN to like it? Why not deal with people you don't like? Can you not change and LEARN that maybe you need to learn something from them and them from you?

You are approaching this completely wrong. Which is, "I don't like it, but I'll do it anyways". That's not the final Christian message. It's a step along the way-but if that is where we leave it then the things we do are counted against us.

There are so many things in this life that I haven't liked, but then learned to like. It's called change and Christ requires us to give with a willing heart-not because we "have to".

It's okay. Sit there on your high horse.
I don't care to argue with you about this. You have judged me and found me lacking because I do things that I don't like. You are entitled to your opinion even if I disagree with it. I am done with this and you.

[JohnDoeDoe]

Only part of Church is important then? Only the first hour? I never said you had to attend both hours to believe the Gospel is true.

I'm only stating the lesson you are teaching your children-which isn't a good one. If you give a gift unwillingly it is counted as an evil gift. A type of gift is our time-if you are giving time unwillingly to the Church it is counted as an evil gift.

If you don't want to go to the 2nd hour-then DON'T GO.. If you go to the 2nd hour, don't give some cockamammy excuse and blame your kids that you "have to go" for the 2nd hour. Be an adult and own up to your decisions instead of blaming them for your decisions. You are the parent, you get to decide how the household is run. Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

If I don't stay my kids can't stay. My husband is busy with his calling and can't be there to help with the kids. My youngest is in nursery. My kids don't know that I don't like the second hour.
It's not an evil gift to do things that you don't like. It's part of life. Everyone does things that they don't like. You do it for the better good of your family.

Can you imagine a world where people only did the things that they liked? No more housework, work, dealing with people you don't like? The world would fall apart if people only did what they liked.

Okay, so the only reason you go to Church the 2nd hour is for you kids? So 2nd hour Church is important for your children to attend, but it's not important for you to attend? There is a word for that type of belief that Christ most certainly hated.

So what if your kids can't stay. I most certainly do not go for my kids-I go for me not for them. If I didn't feel going to 2nd hour is necessary, I wouldn't go. I refuse to be teach my children one thing and not live it myself. They will see that and they will eventually despise me for it. If I do not live or practice what I teach them with my HEART, they will absolutely know at some point that I do not actually believe what I'm teaching them-and that will be pretty bad if that happens. Living it with your heart, actions and then teaching it is called integrity of heart. If you teach something you don't believe or you heart isn't in it one lacks integrity.

There are plenty of scriptures which describe giving with the heart and not the outward manifestations. Several scriptures describe how if we do things (especially religiously) with the wrong heart-those things are counted AGAINST us.

I challenge you to study those scriptures, find them and look them up. You claim your kids don't know you don't like the second hour-but they will and they do. You may think you have never said an ill word about it to them, but your body language will betray you. At some point your dislike of it will betray you.

There is another way than your worldview. It's called change. No more housework? Why do you not like it? Can you not LEARN to like it? Why not deal with people you don't like? Can you not change and LEARN that maybe you need to learn something from them and them from you?

You are approaching this completely wrong. Which is, "I don't like it, but I'll do it anyways". That's not the final Christian message. It's a step along the way-but if that is where we leave it then the things we do are counted against us.

There are so many things in this life that I haven't liked, but then learned to like. It's called change and Christ requires us to give with a willing heart-not because we "have to".

It's okay. Sit there on your high horse.
I don't care to argue with you about this. You have judged me and found me lacking because I do things that I don't like. You are entitled to your opinion even if I disagree with it. I am done with this and you.

Why are you so angry? Nothing I have said has been said in anger or being upset.

So what if I have judged you (which I haven't, but you are free to feel that why). I'm some random dude, if my words have merit take them to heart, if they don't discard them. It won't affect me one way or the other-I am only trying to help, yet it is clear you do not want any help so have at it however you feel.

I only ask when your kids are older to remember this conversation-you'll probably be able to gain quite a bit of wisdom from it with the hindsight of time.

[Thinker]

Going to Church "for the kids" seems like a silly reason. Kids are pretty smart, they can figure out that the religion really isn't that important for the parents and by the time they are out on their own they will fade away.

I'd say going to Church "for the kids" is more likely to backfire and cause kids to lose their faith more than just simply not going.

Just like being married "for the kids", kids will pick up on that fact real fast-even if they can't conceptualize it...

Making some excuse that your kids made you do it, is really, really, really weak.

If you give an evil gift of your time (in the 2nd hour), regardless of whether you think your children know what you believe-they will sense that you are giving a false gift. That lesson will come back at some point in their life.

Respectfully, I disagree.
I go to church partly because of my children. And I am still married because of my children. It is NOT weak to put aside what you like for your children. Parents in prison camps were starving yet gave up their food for their kids. Yet many cannot sacrifice making a marriage work for their kids. They somehow have fooled themselves into thinking their kids want and need most to see their parents sexually happy with a new partner, which steals any sense of home-base from kids - now they have two 1/2 homes - but not a whole full-time home.

Because of the compromise they’ve heard their parents make (in sharing tithes with the poor and yet raising kids going to church), our kids are not so dogmatic nor skeptical - but have a good balance of faith and reason. I hear them arguing it out - trying to figure what is good and what isn’t. Many adults haven’t even thought about things they have. I tell them of the good and bad of the church and remind them to, “take the best, leave the rest.”

One other point: I bet at least 90% of people at church go out of a sense of duty - not joy. I saw it in their faces as I sat on the stand. I used to go for similar reasons, until I saw it’s like a game. The rules and the game are not what’s most important. Loving and being loved - spending time together - is what matters. Although conditional, the church helps facilitates a sense of community that is difficult to find.

[EmmaLee]

I know that most wards will be having a single-hour Sacrament Meeting on Sunday Dec. 22. I have seen a couple of advertisements put out by the Church inviting the public to this Christmas Sacrament meeting, and it directs them to Come Unto Christ.org to find a ward near them.

The advert I just saw was beautiful. It invited people to join with us, sing with us, worship with us, and so on. There were beautiful families, beautiful children...........and stunningly beautiful refreshments. Holiday cookies, cupcakes, and a buffet table loaded with goodies, and everyone talking and mingling with a plate of snacks.

Is your Ward having refreshments and mingle-time after Sacrament Meeting?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_ODxd8c9kQk

In our RS presidency meeting held a few days before this one-hour sacrament meeting, one of the women mentioned this ad - none of the rest of us had heard or seen it or knew anything about it at all, and she had only noticed it that morning. I don't know about your ward, but in our ward, everything, unfortunately, falls to the RS presidency to do/take care of, so the president's face went white as a sheet, and she grabbed the counselor's phone and looked at the ad with horror. It was funny/not funny.

Not to mention the fact that we have 3 full-sized wards smashed into our tiny building, and there is overlap with no place to have a refreshments and mingle-time without disturbing the other ward who is in there. Our three wards are far too big to meet together in our minuscule chapel, so we had 3 different sacrament meetings that day, and no refreshments or mingle-time (in any of the wards). In our presidency meeting, we did talk about what if non-members showed up expecting this lavish affair of junk food that the SLC Church was promoting (but obviously didn't get the word to the individual units). No fear though, as none showed up, in our ward anyway.