Should the USA become a democracy?

[Shaffer89]

I have a few thoughts/questions that I felt like sharing and what to know what others think:

In an effort of full disclosure these thoughts have all come after hearing on the radio this morning that no republican voted for impeachment and only 3 democrats voted no on impeachment. It made me speculate on whether congress is actually voting to represent their districts or just voting along party lines.
I don't intend for this to be a discussion on the impeachment so if we could keep that out of focus I would appreciate it.

From what I understand we are a Republic where we elect officials to represent us in matters relating to the government. (I'm sure there is far more to that then I am saying, but this is a simplified generalization.)

Is it actually possible for one person to accurately represent approx. 747,000 people? I don't believe it is.
I think we all are far too diverse and unique in our decision making and ideals for it to work.

With the advancements in technology and communication do we really need to continue having representatives in the government?

It seems we are able to spend an inordinate amount of time on social media and our devices and keeping up with the Kardashians or whoever is popular now, so what would be the issues with having one website where all bills and things could be voted on democratically? (I'm sure there are issues but I haven't delved into it enough to really think them through as yet.)

[WikiUp]

Democracy results in the rule of the majority, which can become the mob and deprive the minority of rights.

We are a Representative Republic - not a democracy - and therefore protect the rights of the minority by equal representation through an elected legislature and the Electoral College (Which equalizes population disparities among the States eliminating major population centers from controllin elections and depriving minor population centers of rights.)

[Shaffer89]

Democracy results in the rule of the majority, which can become the mob and deprive the minority of rights.

We are a Representative Republic - not a democracy - and therefore protect the rights of the minority by equal representation through an elected legislature and the Electoral College (Which equalizes population disparities among the States eliminating major population centers from controllin elections and depriving minor population centers of rights.)

I guess I haven't thought about the majority depriving the minority of rights, I suppose it may be a sense of idealism that I hadn't even considered it.
But then I am of the opinion that if you aren't going to support the majority decision when it comes to laws then you shouldn't be a part of that society. As much as I love America if they ever enforced laws that I couldn't subject myself to, or at least try to subject myself to, then I would leave.

If the majority says they want things run a certain way why do we compromise that by giving the minority more power?

[mes5464]

We are a constitutional republic. This means that the legislature can only act within the limits of the constitution. This is the ideal and isn't what we are actually doing in practice.

Ideally, the government would only act to benefit the smallest of all minorities, the individual. All laws would protect the right of the individual, not any group. This means there would be hardly any laws at all and there would be a very small government. Unfortunately, we don't have a population educated enough to make that happen.

[captainfearnot]

Unfortunately, we don't have a population educated enough to make that happen.

How could we achieve that level of education?

[mes5464]

Unfortunately, we don't have a population educated enough to make that happen.

How could we achieve that level of education?

I my opinion it would have to be a part of the church. As I see it, only the church is teaching the truth about the Church of Christ. We must also start teaching the truth about the Kingdom of Christ. The two are different but interlocking.

[lundbaek]

The Lord established the Constitution of the United States (D&C 101:80). If you would rather participate in changing the U.S. government to any other form of government, I suggest you take it up with God.

"To me....that statement of the Lord, "I have established the Constitution of this land," puts the Constitution of the United States in the position in which it would be if it were written in this book on Doctrine and Covenants itself." ". (President J. Reuben Clark)

[lundbaek]

Sometime in the late 1960s President McKay commissioned Dr. W. Cleon Skousen to establish a program for teaching/educating LDS and non-LDS Americans about the principles of the U.S. Constitution and about the threats to its preservation. Dr. Skousen established the Freeman Institute for that purpose. Only a very small % of LDS adults took interest in the program. It appears to me that the Church authorities (and I think the Lord as well) have given up on trying to persuade Church members to get involved in learning, upholding and abiding by the U.S. Constitution and are leaving us to endure the consequences of the neglect. I believe what we as individuals and in small groups can do will help prepare the "remnant" that will, as prophesied, restore the principles of the Constitution, but IMO only after the "cleansing".

[tdj]

No, because that would mean the majority rules. As it stands now, the majority certainly can throw their weight around, but are tempered somewhat by the electoral college. Make it a majority rules with our dumbed down populace and disaster is but one presidential vote away. I don't think it's a good idea AT ALL that the ignorant, loud mouthed baby making welfare queen should have the same weight as someone with an I.Q in the triple digits, who spent their whole life doing the right thing and making right choices.

[Luke]

Political parties should be abolished, it was never intended that wicked men could form bands, gang up and gain power to exercise unrighteous dominion. As long as the party system remains in place, the US Constitution will continue to diminish. Party rule has diminished freedom in practically all countries, and that's not to mention that in practice, they all do the same thing because they are all controlled by the same force.

[righteousrepublic]

It was intended that the USA would be a Righteous Republic under a Constitution given by God that provided freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution was supposed to be the Supreme Law of the land. It was also intended that Judges were supposed to be governed by this supreme law, but somehow they ignored that mandate and came up with their own constitution. Read "The United States Has Two Constitutions" by Jerome Horowitz, Attorney At Law.

Also, we have secret societies/combinations in all forms of government around the country that are striving to take control of society. There is a giant push to allow socialism to blanket the country.

These among other reasons are why we need the Constitution saved.

[lundbaek]

People need to be persuaded to espouse the principles of the Constitution.

[Shaffer89]

Lots of awesome responses, thank you all!

So it's seeming like maybe my issue is with the parties and the republic side of things can still be effective as long as it is based off the constitution.

So instead of thinking it should become a democracy it would be more effective as a constitutional republic that actually acted as such instead of whatever it seems to have turned into.

Is that only intended at the federal level? Is that same logic applicable on the state level?

[lundbaek]

So instead of thinking it should become a democracy it would be more effective as a constitutional republic that actually acted as such instead of whatever it seems to have turned into.

From what I have gleaned from statements of the Lord in D&C and statements by latter-day prophets and apostles, it seems to me that the Lord gave us what I can best describe as a constitutional, representative republic, and that we (Latter-day Saints, at least) are to do our best to keep it.

[Summerwind]

No, I don't think a direct democracy is a good idea - they tend to fall into corruption even faster than Republics. This is something the Founding Fathers made pretty abundantly clear if you read what they said on the topic.

Rather than trying to re-outfit America, we probably should look forward to the coming of Zion which will replace any need for all of this.

[lundbaek]

Rather than trying to re-outfit America, we probably should look forward to the coming of Zion which will replace any need for all of this.

Not just look forward to the coming of Zion, but assist in its coming forth.

Too many Latter-day Saints seem to think the Lord will do these sort of things for us when we haven't done much of anything on our part.

[Summerwind]

Rather than trying to re-outfit America, we probably should look forward to the coming of Zion which will replace any need for all of this.

Not just look forward to the coming of Zion, but assist in its coming forth.

Too many Latter-day Saints seem to think the Lord will do these sort of things for us when we haven't done much of anything on our part.

I'm not sure what you mean by "do these sorts of things for us when we haven't done much of anything on our part." This is a little unclear as to what you mean. What sorts of things?

The Lord knows how deep the secret combinations run right now, which is why we have been warned about it in every single book of scripture we have. Thus we preserve the principles that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence have within them, but it doesn't follow that creating a direct democracy is 1) a good step or 2) what God is wanting us to do.

[lundbaek]

What I mean is that too many Latter-day Saints think that the Lord will shield us from the "beast" of Revelation 13 without our having even tried to learn, uphold, and abide by the principles of the UDD Constitution, and in spite of our ignorance of the new world order conspiracy and support of certain elements of it. In other words, too many Church members have ignored the admonitions and commandments to do our assigned homework.

[Summerwind]

Ok... the shield that we should be using for that is the gospel and our own conversion and relationship with Christ, not the Constitution. That's not what saves us in the end. I have no idea where you get the idea that the saving grace of the saints is only the Constitution.

In any case - the Constitution explicitly excludes direct democracy.

[lundbaek]

I don't believe I ever stated or even implied that the saving grace of the saints is only the Constitution. Where did you get that idea? There are many principles of the gospel which we need to understand and comply with.

On this forum I focus on the US Constitution and threats to it and our liberty because this forum was created, according to its creator, "to provide an online home for individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ - this includes a myriad of topics related to the Gospel of Liberty (as some prophets have described the Gospel of Jesus Christ) and more." The doctrine of liberty is a principle of the gospel and we have a doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty.

[jmack]

The founding fathers didn't want us to be a democracy because they aren't as good as a representative republic. Why turn into something that they were trying to avoid?

[Summerwind]

I don't believe I ever stated or even implied that the saving grace of the saints is only the Constitution. Where did you get that idea? There are many principles of the gospel which we need to understand and comply with.

On this forum I focus on the US Constitution and threats to it and our liberty because this forum was created, according to its creator, "to provide an online home for individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ - this includes a myriad of topics related to the Gospel of Liberty (as some prophets have described the Gospel of Jesus Christ) and more." The doctrine of liberty is a principle of the gospel and we have a doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty.

You did actually talk about the "UDD Constitution" as a shield from the beast. I don't think that's how it works. Any shield we have is from Jesus Christ and his gospel of truth, not from the Constitution, which btw, even Joseph Smith Jr. knew was imperfect even if it was wonderful at the same time. I love the Constitution, but it takes more than just that piece of paper to shield us from the horrible things surrounding the revelation beast.

[lundbaek]

What is the UDD Constitution.? I don't think of the Constitution as a shield of any sort. But I have long contended that if lots more Latter-day Saints had learned, upheld, and abided by the Constitution that other Americans would have rallied with us and we might have turned things around. Why else did past prophets speak as they did about the Constitution? Much of what they did say about it is contained in 2 books that I am aware of, that show that the Constitution's principles "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh".
A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND by Christopher S. Bentley
LATTER-DAY PROPHETS AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION by Donald Q. Cannon and Duane Knowles.

Of course other principles of the gospel must be obeyed. But please consider the significance of these 2 statements, 1 from the Church publication PRINCIPLES OF THE GOSPEL, and the other from a 1941 letter from the First Presidency.

"During a period in Church history when many Latter-day Saints were being denied the protection of the Constitution, Joseph Smith wrote: "The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner."......The men who framed the Constitution were directed by the Spirit of the Lord in establishing the basic freedoms guaranteed the citizens of this country....Unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable." ..."The Constitution was established through the inspiration of God to preserve the liberty of the people and to maintain his promise." (Principles of the Gospel, Page 135-136, Page 146-147, Published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1991)

The following statements were included in a letter to the United States Treasury, signed on 11 October 1941 by the First Presidency of the Church.
"In the first place, we should tell you that it is a part of the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, as much a part as any other tenet of their religion, that the Lord Himself "established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood", and that this Constitution "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles."
"Our people believe that they have a special relationship to the Constitution and its preservation."
"....but this much we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."

[righteousrepublic]

What is the UDD Constitution.? I don't think of the Constitution as a shield of any sort. But I have long contended that if lots more Latter-day Saints had learned, upheld, and abided by the Constitution that other Americans would have rallied with us and we might have turned things around. Why else did past prophets speak as they did about the Constitution? Much of what they did say about it is contained in 2 books that I am aware of, that show that the Constitution's principles "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh".
A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND by Christopher S. Bentley
LATTER-DAY PROPHETS AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION by Donald Q. Cannon and Duane Knowles.

Of course other principles of the gospel must be obeyed. But please consider the significance of these 2 statements, 1 from the Church publication PRINCIPLES OF THE GOSPEL, and the other from a 1941 letter from the First Presidency.

"During a period in Church history when many Latter-day Saints were being denied the protection of the Constitution, Joseph Smith wrote: "The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner."......The men who framed the Constitution were directed by the Spirit of the Lord in establishing the basic freedoms guaranteed the citizens of this country....Unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable." ..."The Constitution was established through the inspiration of God to preserve the liberty of the people and to maintain his promise." (Principles of the Gospel, Page 135-136, Page 146-147, Published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1991)

The following statements were included in a letter to the United States Treasury, signed on 11 October 1941 by the First Presidency of the Church.
"In the first place, we should tell you that it is a part of the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, as much a part as any other tenet of their religion, that the Lord Himself "established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood", and that this Constitution "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles."
"Our people believe that they have a special relationship to the Constitution and its preservation."
"....but this much we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."

Are you still offering the PDF for this? If so, how does one come to gain it? I know from experience that this book is full of information extremely useful to those that take an avid interest in what the Constitution as a guide and protection is all about.

Another good read is The Original Argument by Glenn Beck. It makes the reading of the Federalist Papers very easy to understand.

[lundbaek]

I can email the PDF of A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND. Just PM me with an email address.