The church is hiding its talent in the ground

[David13]

The Catholics have closed a huge percentage of their schools, in fact also a large percentage of their churches. They don't have the parishioners nor the students. That is not an opportunity for expansion into a new field for the church.

You could, when you are called to the 70 or the 12 present these ideas to the others. They would not be carried out, as they are not wise ideas.
dc


I believe we are talking about the stock market here. I don't know if any of you know how that works with an institution like the church. But it is certainly not comparable to ... the ground.

You don't think it wise for the church to open up K-12 church school.........not controlled by Babylon??? Nonsense...how long ago were you in high school? It's not what it was, and even in your day we should of had them...hence slc

Lol your reasoning is because Catholics suck at it...???

It was a long long long time ago. But how do you know I didn't go to Catholic schools when they existed.

And you are reading into it what wasn't there.

I DID NOT SAY THEY DON'T DO WELL AT IT. I don't ever use that kid speak word you used there.

False attribution. Very poor reading comprehension.

I said they are closing up. As they have fewer or no people for it. Same reason they are closing churches. No one comes.

Do you think it wise for the COJCOLDS to open schools without knowing if there is any demand for it? I don't.

I can tell you when I was in Catholic school they had a thing that Mormons are not too good at. It was called discipline. No, public school doesn't have it, can't by law in many places.

And it has been decried and disparaged by many, even many in this church. As not working, too harsh, racist, unfair, etc.

So I wonder if they could do it, and not run afoul of the laws today.

I do know there are still some Catholic schools out there. I don't know what they do, or how.

I can tell you I'm against public school, or government (leftist) indoctrination centers, not matter what you erroneously read into my posts.

And notice too that NO, I DID NOT post that I'm all in favor of strict discipline in schools. I say and post here I have no kids, never did and will make no statement about what any and all schools should or shouldn't be.

Than ain't my job.

I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.
dc

"I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all. "

Do you mean me? Trucker? Also, this is not what I said. Man you guys are bad at this. You straw man and presuppose everything about people who raise this concern.

Is there no way to be charitable without just throwing free stuff to the masses?

I posted Thinker because I meant ... Thinker.

You think I'm bad at this but you can't identify who posts what about what.

Try my other recent posts about it. It's all there.

But yes, that it the whole emphasis, that THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, other than welfare and food stamps, or ... free fish.
dc

[Trucker]

You don't think it wise for the church to open up K-12 church school.........not controlled by Babylon??? Nonsense...how long ago were you in high school? It's not what it was, and even in your day we should of had them...hence slc

Lol your reasoning is because Catholics suck at it...???

It was a long long long time ago. But how do you know I didn't go to Catholic schools when they existed.

And you are reading into it what wasn't there.

I DID NOT SAY THEY DON'T DO WELL AT IT. I don't ever use that kid speak word you used there.

False attribution. Very poor reading comprehension.

I said they are closing up. As they have fewer or no people for it. Same reason they are closing churches. No one comes.

Do you think it wise for the COJCOLDS to open schools without knowing if there is any demand for it? I don't.

I can tell you when I was in Catholic school they had a thing that Mormons are not too good at. It was called discipline. No, public school doesn't have it, can't by law in many places.

And it has been decried and disparaged by many, even many in this church. As not working, too harsh, racist, unfair, etc.

So I wonder if they could do it, and not run afoul of the laws today.

I do know there are still some Catholic schools out there. I don't know what they do, or how.

I can tell you I'm against public school, or government (leftist) indoctrination centers, not matter what you erroneously read into my posts.

And notice too that NO, I DID NOT post that I'm all in favor of strict discipline in schools. I say and post here I have no kids, never did and will make no statement about what any and all schools should or shouldn't be.

Than ain't my job.

I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.
dc

"I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all. "

Do you mean me? Trucker? Also, this is not what I said. Man you guys are bad at this. You straw man and presuppose everything about people who raise this concern.

Is there no way to be charitable without just throwing free stuff to the masses?

I posted Thinker because I meant ... Thinker.

You think I'm bad at this but you can't identify who posts what about what.

Try my other recent posts about it. It's all there.

But yes, that it the whole emphasis, that THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, other than welfare and food stamps, or ... free fish.
dc

When did Thinker post in this thread?

[nightlight]

How about church schools across the world like the Catholics do. How about medical trips like the Red Cross does. How about job and skills training. How about promoting self-sufficient and gardening? How about a BYU-New York or a BYU-London? How about a mall in Africa? How about large-scale organic farming? How about a network of battered women shelters? How about something like what the YMCA used to be for struggling men? How about a youth program that isn't strictly religious? How about free or low cost distance learning? How about a factory to produce parts for clean water in Africa? How about a fund to people to invest in that doesn't invest in companies that oppose the teachings of the gospel? How about family centers around the countries with classes and recreation facilities? How about supporting music, movies, and other media that isn't vulgar? How about creating a cable channel with good programming, even if it operates at a loss?

The Catholics have closed a huge percentage of their schools, in fact also a large percentage of their churches. They don't have the parishioners nor the students. That is not an opportunity for expansion into a new field for the church.

You could, when you are called to the 70 or the 12 present these ideas to the others. They would not be carried out, as they are not wise ideas.
dc


I believe we are talking about the stock market here. I don't know if any of you know how that works with an institution like the church. But it is certainly not comparable to ... the ground.

You don't think it wise for the church to open up K-12 church school.........not controlled by Babylon??? Nonsense...how long ago were you in high school? It's not what it was, and even in your day we should of had them...hence slc

Lol your reasoning is because Catholics suck at it...???

It was a long long long time ago. But how do you know I didn't go to Catholic schools when they existed.

And you are reading into it what wasn't there.

I DID NOT SAY THEY DON'T DO WELL AT IT. I don't ever use that kid speak word you used there.

False attribution. Very poor reading comprehension.

I said they are closing up. As they have fewer or no people for it. Same reason they are closing churches. No one comes.

Do you think it wise for the COJCOLDS to open schools without knowing if there is any demand for it? I don't.

I can tell you when I was in Catholic school they had a thing that Mormons are not too good at. It was called discipline. No, public school doesn't have it, can't by law in many places.

And it has been decried and disparaged by many, even many in this church. As not working, too harsh, racist, unfair, etc.

So I wonder if they could do it, and not run afoul of the laws today.

I do know there are still some Catholic schools out there. I don't know what they do, or how.

I can tell you I'm against public school, or government (leftist) indoctrination centers, not matter what you erroneously read into my posts.

And notice too that NO, I DID NOT post that I'm all in favor of strict discipline in schools. I say and post here I have no kids, never did and will make no statement about what any and all schools should or shouldn't be.

Than ain't my job.

I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.
dc

Lol Thinker??? Cool, bro. Who was talking about free stuff...??? Not me.

Why are you even talking about families getting free stuff to me? Don't be shy, buddie...

[David13]

The Catholics have closed a huge percentage of their schools, in fact also a large percentage of their churches. They don't have the parishioners nor the students. That is not an opportunity for expansion into a new field for the church.

You could, when you are called to the 70 or the 12 present these ideas to the others. They would not be carried out, as they are not wise ideas.
dc


I believe we are talking about the stock market here. I don't know if any of you know how that works with an institution like the church. But it is certainly not comparable to ... the ground.

You don't think it wise for the church to open up K-12 church school.........not controlled by Babylon??? Nonsense...how long ago were you in high school? It's not what it was, and even in your day we should of had them...hence slc

Lol your reasoning is because Catholics suck at it...???

It was a long long long time ago. But how do you know I didn't go to Catholic schools when they existed.

And you are reading into it what wasn't there.

I DID NOT SAY THEY DON'T DO WELL AT IT. I don't ever use that kid speak word you used there.

False attribution. Very poor reading comprehension.

I said they are closing up. As they have fewer or no people for it. Same reason they are closing churches. No one comes.

Do you think it wise for the COJCOLDS to open schools without knowing if there is any demand for it? I don't.

I can tell you when I was in Catholic school they had a thing that Mormons are not too good at. It was called discipline. No, public school doesn't have it, can't by law in many places.

And it has been decried and disparaged by many, even many in this church. As not working, too harsh, racist, unfair, etc.

So I wonder if they could do it, and not run afoul of the laws today.

I do know there are still some Catholic schools out there. I don't know what they do, or how.

I can tell you I'm against public school, or government (leftist) indoctrination centers, not matter what you erroneously read into my posts.

And notice too that NO, I DID NOT post that I'm all in favor of strict discipline in schools. I say and post here I have no kids, never did and will make no statement about what any and all schools should or shouldn't be.

Than ain't my job.

I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.
dc

Lol Thinker??? Cool, bro. Who was talking about free stuff...??? Not me.

Why are you even talking about families getting free stuff to me? Don't be shy, buddie...

What is that supposed to be? Hipster language?
dc

[Michelle]

.

[JohnnyL]

How about church schools across the world like the Catholics do. How about medical trips like the Red Cross does. How about job and skills training. How about promoting self-sufficient and gardening? How about a BYU-New York or a BYU-London? How about a mall in Africa? How about large-scale organic farming? How about a network of battered women shelters? How about something like what the YMCA used to be for struggling men? How about a youth program that isn't strictly religious? How about free or low cost distance learning? How about a factory to produce parts for clean water in Africa? How about a fund to people to invest in that doesn't invest in companies that oppose the teachings of the gospel? How about family centers around the countries with classes and recreation facilities? How about supporting music, movies, and other media that isn't vulgar? How about creating a cable channel with good programming, even if it operates at a loss?

All considered.
The church does quite a bit through others. The work with the Red Cross. They have study abroad programs. They promoted self-sufficiency and gardening for years. They work with networks of battered women shelters and much more. (Every charity in Ogden like this that the Church donated to said they wouldn't be able to continue without those donations.) They have addiction programs. They have low-cost distance learning. They've done quite a bit for clean water in Africa. They have TV channels.

And all that is just off the top of my head.

Can you try to be original? Or, at minimum, at least somewhat informed?

[Trucker]

How about church schools across the world like the Catholics do. How about medical trips like the Red Cross does. How about job and skills training. How about promoting self-sufficient and gardening? How about a BYU-New York or a BYU-London? How about a mall in Africa? How about large-scale organic farming? How about a network of battered women shelters? How about something like what the YMCA used to be for struggling men? How about a youth program that isn't strictly religious? How about free or low cost distance learning? How about a factory to produce parts for clean water in Africa? How about a fund to people to invest in that doesn't invest in companies that oppose the teachings of the gospel? How about family centers around the countries with classes and recreation facilities? How about supporting music, movies, and other media that isn't vulgar? How about creating a cable channel with good programming, even if it operates at a loss?

All considered.
The church does quite a bit through others. The work with the Red Cross. They have study abroad programs. They promoted self-sufficiency and gardening for years. They work with networks of battered women shelters and much more. (Every charity in Ogden like this that the Church donated to said they wouldn't be able to continue without those donations.) They have addiction programs. They have low-cost distance learning. They've done quite a bit for clean water in Africa. They have TV channels.

And all that is just off the top of my head.

Can you try to be original? Or, at minimum, at least somewhat informed?

And they have $100 billion they could be using, but choose not to. It's not that the church doesn't do anything charitable, it's that it's got a huge amount of money that could be used to do a lot more, but they choose not to.

And no need for the jab at me at the end there. That's just a way to shame me.

[Mindfields]

Just remember you don't have to support the church leader's bad behavior. Stand up for what's morally right (note the church always uses legal not moral) and denounce evil. The gospel of Jesus Christ hasn't changed. The gospel of the church continually evolves. Jesus was all about helping the less fortunate. The church is all about maximizing profit.

The church acting like they have little money, raising the cost of missions, having members cleaning buildings for free, working over the members including the poorest of us to pay tithing, doing the least they can for the poor, the widow etc. and even expecting other religions to help the poor because they have a more important mission all the while taking their tithing free stipend and bounteous benefits. They have lost all credibility with me.

Defend them to your own detriment.

[gruden2.0]

Referring to the scripture, I think there's a couple interesting points to be made:

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

1. Leaving the money/talents with the money changers is technically acceptable to the Lord, but by his rewards it's clear He prefers his servants to do something productive with the resources He provided.

2. The Lord does not only own the principle (tithing funds) but also the interest/gains/profits. The servants render ALL of it to the Lord and it is His.

So we know at least some of the money was used for the SLC mall. I remember when that was discussed here a number of posters loudly proclaimed the church's insistence no tithing money was used for the Babylonian project. While that turns out to be completely untrue, to me it was immaterial even at the time, because as the parable teaches, even investment income belongs to the Lord.

Is using the Lord's funds for commercial projects the Lord's will? Or for that matter, to create a cash hoard for nothing at all? Something to consider.

[Trucker]

Referring to the scripture, I think there's a couple interesting points to be made:

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

1. Leaving the money/talents with the money changers is technically acceptable to the Lord, but by his rewards it's clear He prefers his servants to do something productive with the resources He provided.

2. The Lord does not only own the principle (tithing funds) but also the interest/gains/profits. The servants render ALL of it to the Lord and it is His.

So we know at least some of the money was used for the SLC mall. I remember when that was discussed here a number of posters loudly proclaimed the church's insistence no tithing money was used for the Babylonian project. While that turns out to be completely untrue, to me it was immaterial even at the time, because as the parable teaches, even investment income belongs to the Lord.

Is using the Lord's funds for commercial projects the Lord's will? Or for that matter, to create a cash hoard for nothing at all? Something to consider.

"He prefers his servants to do something productive with the resources He provided."

But the question is: what is productive use of those funds? At what point do you have to actually use them for something, or than just gaining more?

[Trucker]

The First Presidency mentioned the Parable of the Talents and said that's what they were doing, multiplying their talents. But are we to interpret the parable to be telling us to multiply our money? The official church interpretation of this parable doesn't think so.

"The Lord told this parable to teach the importance of using our abilities, or talents, wisely. More was expected from the man given many talents than from the man with fewer talents, yet all were expected to increase the talents they were given. Even the man with one talent was expected to use it wisely.

President Spencer W. Kimball said: “God has endowed us with talents and time, with latent abilities and with opportunities to use and develop them in his service. He therefore expects much of us, his privileged children”"

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... l?lang=eng

The talents are meant to be used, not hoarded, or hidden. And it doesn't mean money.

Also, talents that are not used are lost:

"“The Lord grants us our [talents and abilities] on a kind of lend-lease basis where he takes back everything that is not used. These are terms similar to those under which he gave manna to the children of Israel in the wilderness. Each day an abundance of manna covered the ground and the people gathered as much as they desired, but that which was not used spoiled. So it is with our abilities. Most of us never get strong backs or have great minds because the burdens we have given them to bear have never been heavy enough. All of our potential that is not used is lost”"

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... l?lang=eng

Saying that the church is applying the Parable of the Talents is not accurate, except as the one hiding his talent in the ground. The First Presidency is applying this parable incorrectly to money, but if we have to apply the parable, the First Presidency is misidentifying who they are in the parable.

[mtm411]

I'd like to see them fully fund missions. It's a huge sacrifice for many families and young people to fund 11,000 worth of missions plus supplies. With that kind of money, the church could easily do it for these kids who are already sacrificing 18 months to 2 years. They could save their money for marriage, school, a reliable car. You might actually see the marriage rate go up because poor kids would have one less place asking for money.

[nightlight]

You don't think it wise for the church to open up K-12 church school.........not controlled by Babylon??? Nonsense...how long ago were you in high school? It's not what it was, and even in your day we should of had them...hence slc

Lol your reasoning is because Catholics suck at it...???

It was a long long long time ago. But how do you know I didn't go to Catholic schools when they existed.

And you are reading into it what wasn't there.

I DID NOT SAY THEY DON'T DO WELL AT IT. I don't ever use that kid speak word you used there.

False attribution. Very poor reading comprehension.

I said they are closing up. As they have fewer or no people for it. Same reason they are closing churches. No one comes.

Do you think it wise for the COJCOLDS to open schools without knowing if there is any demand for it? I don't.

I can tell you when I was in Catholic school they had a thing that Mormons are not too good at. It was called discipline. No, public school doesn't have it, can't by law in many places.

And it has been decried and disparaged by many, even many in this church. As not working, too harsh, racist, unfair, etc.

So I wonder if they could do it, and not run afoul of the laws today.

I do know there are still some Catholic schools out there. I don't know what they do, or how.

I can tell you I'm against public school, or government (leftist) indoctrination centers, not matter what you erroneously read into my posts.

And notice too that NO, I DID NOT post that I'm all in favor of strict discipline in schools. I say and post here I have no kids, never did and will make no statement about what any and all schools should or shouldn't be.

Than ain't my job.

I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.
dc

Lol Thinker??? Cool, bro. Who was talking about free stuff...??? Not me.

Why are you even talking about families getting free stuff to me? Don't be shy, buddie...

What is that supposed to be? Hipster language?
dc

https://youtu.be/h0Ahs2UPjnw

[Art Vandelay]

"He prefers his servants to do something productive with the resources He provided."

But the question is: what is productive use of those funds? At what point do you have to actually use them for something, or than just gaining more?

What the productive use of those funds is, is something that we can only speculate, just like those who second guess. I'm confident that there is a plan for those funds, even if the plan hasn't been spelled out.

Historically, saving for a rainy day isn't anything new. Saving to pay cash for "stuff" isn't a new principle either. There's 2 potential answers right there for amassing such a huge amount of money. The Lord tells the church in the D&C that all the land where the New Jerusalem is to be built is going to have to be purchased. It's right there in our own scriptures (posted below). I don't know what that's going to cost but it's probably more than chump change.

Joseph had Egypt save and store (hoard) food for 7 years, so much food that it couldn't be numbered. Then when the famine hit he sold it back to the Egyptians and when the money failed the people gave their land in exchange for food. Talk about a land grab! I can only imagine what people would post on LDSFF if something like that happened today. "They should just give us the food instead of requiring everything we have for a little food. It was our food in the first place!". I think Joseph went down as a pretty righteous fellow, right? If an economic collapse occurs and the church happened to have their money and were able to buy up all sorts of land and buildings, history would show them as wise stewards. They'd also be looked at as wise if they could still pay their bills and build so many Temples that they dot the earth. But that's all speculation, which is all you and I are doing. A harsh judgement without facts has always been unwise. There are plenty of reasons to save hundreds of billions of dollars. There are plenty of reasons not to save it. Either way, the church is saving and I'm all for it.
My common consent is made known about a half dozen times each year when I sustain those who's job it is to make these things happen.



27 Wherefore, I the Lord will that you should purchase the lands, that you may have advantage of the world, that you may have claim on the world, that they may not be stirred up unto anger.
28 For Satan putteth it into their hearts to anger against you, and to the shedding of blood.
29 Wherefore, the land of Zion shall not be obtained but by purchase or by blood, otherwise there is none inheritance for you.
30 And if by purchase, behold you are blessed;
31 And if by blood, as you are forbidden to shed blood, lo, your enemies are upon you, and ye shall be scourged from city to city, and from synagogue to synagogue, and but few shall stand to receive an inheritance.


Other scriptures showing the same principle-
69 And in order that all things be prepared before you, observe the commandment which I have given concerning these things—
70 Which saith, or teacheth, to purchase all the lands with money, which can be purchased for money, in the region round about the land which I have appointed to be the land of Zion, for the beginning of the gathering of my saints;
71 All the land which can be purchased in Jackson county, and the counties round about, and leave the residue in mine hand.
72 Now, verily I say unto you, let all the churches gather together all their moneys; let these things be done in their time, but not in haste; and observe to have all things prepared before you.
73 And let honorable men be appointed, even wise men, and send them to purchase these lands.

4 It must needs be necessary that ye save all the money that ye can, and that ye obtain all that ye can in righteousness, that in time ye may be enabled to purchase land for an inheritance, even the city.
5 The place is not yet to be revealed; but after your brethren come from the east there are to be certain men appointed, and to them it shall be given to know the place, or to them it shall be revealed.
6 And they shall be appointed to purchase the lands, and to make a commencement to lay the foundation of the city; and then shall ye begin to be gathered with your families, every man according to his family, according to his circumstances, and as is appointed to him by the presidency and the bishop of the church, according to the laws and commandments which ye have received, and which ye shall hereafter receive. Even so. Amen.

[LDS Physician]

The First Presidency statement says that they are acting like the wise steward in the Parable of the Talents. It might seem like that because they are getting a return on their money. But they are are actually hiding and wasting it.

Millions of members faithfully give their tithing, which they have been told is necessary for their salvation and to enter the temple to receive the saving ordinances for themselves and their ancestors, and the church receives it and keeps it. The church now has $100 billion dollars that could be used to do a lot of good, like creating church schools, running humanitarian missions on the scale of the Red Cross, creating job centers around the country or the world. There's a lot that can be done with $100 billion to further the work of the Lord and fulfill the mission of the church.

Yes the church has increased the funds, but it hasn't furthered the work of the Lord with it. It hasn't stepped out and launched impactful initiatives. It has done some humanitarian aid, but often in partnership with some other charity, and often taking a back seat.

Church has acted like the unwise steward who was afraid to take acton and do something with the talent.

There's a huge potential built up, that can only be used within a functioning, modern economy. Stocks, bank accounts, electronic shares mean nothing when the dollar collapses, the economy stops, or when there is a breakdown in society like what will happen during the second coming.

Those funds can only be used now, but the church buries them in the earth. Saving them for a rainy day. Noah didn't save a bunch of money and buy an ark when it started to rain. The time may come and go before the opportunity to use $100 billion to further the Lord's work passes by.

The church is stuck in a defensive, persecuted mentality, afraid to do good and step out and lead, and wasting the talent that's been given to it.

"The fact that the Church of Jesus Christ has been able to fund the operation of meetinghouses, temples, educational institutions and missionary work—while also building up reservoirs of resources for the difficult days that eventually come—is a model that should be celebrated and emulated by governments and other institutions around the world,"



You make a lot of assumptions in your baseless, accusatory rant; not the least of which is assuming that this investment fund is its only asset and that no other assets are being used to help others, build temples, etc. etc. It is the equivalent of getting a glimpse of my retirement account without any other knowledge of my income and how I spend it and then accusing me of not doing anything with my money.

Incredible.

[The Airbender]

The First Presidency statement says that they are acting like the wise steward in the Parable of the Talents. It might seem like that because they are getting a return on their money. But they are are actually hiding and wasting it.

Millions of members faithfully give their tithing, which they have been told is necessary for their salvation and to enter the temple to receive the saving ordinances for themselves and their ancestors, and the church receives it and keeps it. The church now has $100 billion dollars that could be used to do a lot of good, like creating church schools, running humanitarian missions on the scale of the Red Cross, creating job centers around the country or the world. There's a lot that can be done with $100 billion to further the work of the Lord and fulfill the mission of the church.

Yes the church has increased the funds, but it hasn't furthered the work of the Lord with it. It hasn't stepped out and launched impactful initiatives. It has done some humanitarian aid, but often in partnership with some other charity, and often taking a back seat.

Church has acted like the unwise steward who was afraid to take acton and do something with the talent.

There's a huge potential built up, that can only be used within a functioning, modern economy. Stocks, bank accounts, electronic shares mean nothing when the dollar collapses, the economy stops, or when there is a breakdown in society like what will happen during the second coming.

Those funds can only be used now, but the church buries them in the earth. Saving them for a rainy day. Noah didn't save a bunch of money and buy an ark when it started to rain. The time may come and go before the opportunity to use $100 billion to further the Lord's work passes by.

The church is stuck in a defensive, persecuted mentality, afraid to do good and step out and lead, and wasting the talent that's been given to it.

They haven't hidden it, they have given it to the money changers and are at least getting interest off it.

[Chip]

"The fact that the Church of Jesus Christ has been able to fund the operation of meetinghouses, temples, educational institutions and missionary work—while also building up reservoirs of resources for the difficult days that eventually come—is a model that should be celebrated and emulated by governments and other institutions around the world,"

"...the difficult days that eventually come..."

Interesting wording. I bet members read that as "the difficult days that will eventually come". Lawyerly prose. It actually doesn't refer to the second coming or the tribulation, but just to the general concept of difficult days always coming, as history shows

[markharr]

Or it could be the church storing grain from the seven years of plenty for the seven years of famine.

I have no problem with it, I don't feel like I was deceived. I sustain and trust my prophet and the first presidency.

[Mindfields]

"The fact that the Church of Jesus Christ has been able to fund the operation of meetinghouses, temples, educational institutions and missionary work—while also building up reservoirs of resources for the difficult days that eventually come—is a model that should be celebrated and emulated by governments and other institutions around the world,"

But what have they done for the least of us? I doubt that Jesus will be very impressed by their "great accomplishments".

[Thinker]

...I can tell you also too that I DO NOT AGREE with Thinker that the church should be a free food institution. Free food for all. No standards, just get in line for free food for all.

I don't think that's any way to end "poverty". I think it just results in lazy dependency. I believe in work, etc.

So just to say the church has to do it the way Thinker says is ... nonsense. Not going to happen, and I'm glad of that.

We already have enough career welfare families and generations.

David, I never stated that and in fact argued that is NOT what I believe. Yet you continue to lie about what I’ve written. That’s dishonest. As I’ve explained before, the welfare system in the USA is messed up because it discourages work while encouraging government dependence, and it too often becomes long-term when it’s supposed to be temporary assistance during crisis.

What I have stated is that there is a difference between poverty in the US and in developing countries. Have you ever been to a home/shack with a dirt floor and a rusty, leaking tin roof - with holes throughout the walls too? Have you ever stayed with a poor family who only eats 2 meals a day - sometimes none? It seems you assume everyone in the world are the same as Americans. THEY ARE NOT.

And you seem so quick to judge what you don’t understand. You seem to have never had to worry about hunger and maybe don’t know anyone who ever did.

Again...

My tithes go to a poverty-stricken area of this world where “poor” in the US are considered rich. When I’ve come across people begging in the US, instead of giving them money (which I’ve seen be used for alcohol), I either give them food &/or a list of local resources (food pantries etc). Real poor who have no resources like we have in the US - are those who need help most. According to the World Health Organization, 1/3 of people globally don’t have access to clean water & live on less than $1 a day.





A book about poverty explained that there are various causes of extreme poverty & gave the example of land-locked countries being more limited as far as travel and import/export. It also explained the “economic ladder” and how often countries can work their way up - except in 2 situations: 1) When they are on the lowest rung (battling multiple problems: war, plagued/health epidemics, failed crops etc), & 2) Bad loans (like when other countries steal their resources under the guise of “helping” their country, leaving them with loans they can never repay). In these situations, they cannot rise above without help. But “help” needs to be genuine not really taking advantage pretending to help, as explained in, “Confessions of an Economic Hitman.”

Before investing sacred money to help, thorough research is needed to figure out what the problems are so that the solutions will be effective.

• Some common causes of extreme poverty:
  1) INADEQUATE ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER AND NUTRITIOUS FOOD
  2) LITTLE OR NO ACCESS TO LIVELIHOODS OR JOBS
  3) CONFLICT
  4) social inequalities like gender, caste systems, or tribal affiliations
  5) POOR EDUCATION
  6) Weather/failing crops
  7) LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE (no repaired roads so no way to work/school etc)
  8) LIMITED CAPACITY OF THE GOVERNMENT
  9) LACK OF RESERVES (esp hurts when crisis)
  https://www.concernusa.org/story/top-9- ... l-poverty/

I believe we each love best by loving others as well as ourselves - so picking a way to help others that you feel passionate about. Some people I know have helped build water wells, others have helped calibrate medical equipment in hospitals (which were previously so outdated they were useless or harmful). My passion is education - and though I’ve done some - there’s so much more to be done!

[David13]

David, I never stated that and in fact argued that is NOT what I believe. Yet you continue to lie about what I’ve written. That’s dishonest. As I’ve explained before, the welfare system in the USA is messed up because it discourages work while encouraging government dependence, and it too often becomes long-term when it’s supposed to be temporary assistance during crisis.

What I have stated is that there is a difference between poverty in the US and in developing countries. Have you ever been to a home/shack with a dirt floor and a rusty, leaking tin roof - with holes throughout the walls too? Have you ever stayed with a poor family who only eats 2 meals a day - sometimes none? It seems you assume everyone in the world are the same as Americans. THEY ARE NOT.

And you seem so quick to judge what you don’t understand. You seem to have never had to worry about hunger and maybe don’t know anyone who ever did.

Again...

My tithes go to a poverty-stricken area of this world where “poor” in the US are considered rich. When I’ve come across people begging in the US, instead of giving them money (which I’ve seen be used for alcohol), I either give them food &/or a list of local resources (food pantries etc). Real poor who have no resources like we have in the US - are those who need help most. According to the World Health Organization, 1/3 of people globally don’t have access to clean water & live on less than $1 a day.


...


My passion is education - and though I’ve done some - there’s so much more to be done!

Well, I certainly don't intend to misrepresent you or lie about you but I do intend to draw you out to further try to identify your ideas and understand them.

And yes I have seen poverty above and beyond what is described or touted as poverty in this country.

But there are those in these threads about the church that think that the church should just give away all the money herein talked about. "To the poor".

And it echoes what I have posted before about how the concept of charity for instance to Africa is very disfunctional, doesn't work, and in many cases makes things worse. A video by the people in the charity business, and those recipients of the charity of 'give the poor a fish'.

The problem I have witnessed, many years ago, was the cycle caused by that. The more you feed those starving, barefoot, tin shack, dirt floor Africans, the more the reproduce and cause ... more poverty ... not less.

And the only organization that I have found that has some of that idea and tries to foster self sufficiency to any degree is ... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And yes, I also know, having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years, the 'spare change man' druggie, drinking phonies.

Most of whom I found knew far more than me about available recovery programs, but just weren't, like George Jones ready yet.

So, everybody has a different solution but I don't think liquidating the church is a good one, nor causing more poverty.
dc

[David13]

[nightlight]

Wanna see something strange??? Ask a mormon to explain this scripture to you

TBM love this breaking news about the 100billion. It justifies their swollen bank accounts.
I'm guilty myself. I'll give you my shirt if I see you without, but....I don't go seeking. The more i save...the harder it is to part. I get anxiety about buying things, even things I need. I find myself giving so much power to numbers in my account. I can blame it on growing up with the anxiety of not having...but that would be a halftruth. I make flesh my arm

Like most things Jesus said in the NT....modern Mormons rationalize

We don't spend freely on others because "one day we might need"... this is proof that flesh is our arm

------------
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[Thinker]

David, I never stated that and in fact argued that is NOT what I believe. Yet you continue to lie about what I’ve written. That’s dishonest. As I’ve explained before, the welfare system in the USA is messed up because it discourages work while encouraging government dependence, and it too often becomes long-term when it’s supposed to be temporary assistance during crisis.

What I have stated is that there is a difference between poverty in the US and in developing countries. Have you ever been to a home/shack with a dirt floor and a rusty, leaking tin roof - with holes throughout the walls too? Have you ever stayed with a poor family who only eats 2 meals a day - sometimes none? It seems you assume everyone in the world are the same as Americans. THEY ARE NOT.

And you seem so quick to judge what you don’t understand. You seem to have never had to worry about hunger and maybe don’t know anyone who ever did.

Again...

My tithes go to a poverty-stricken area of this world where “poor” in the US are considered rich. When I’ve come across people begging in the US, instead of giving them money (which I’ve seen be used for alcohol), I either give them food &/or a list of local resources (food pantries etc). Real poor who have no resources like we have in the US - are those who need help most. According to the World Health Organization, 1/3 of people globally don’t have access to clean water & live on less than $1 a day.
...

My passion is education - and though I’ve done some - there’s so much more to be done!

Well, I certainly don't intend to misrepresent you or lie about you but I do intend to draw you out to further try to identify your ideas and understand them.

And yes I have seen poverty above and beyond what is described or touted as poverty in this country.

But there are those in these threads about the church that think that the church should just give away all the money herein talked about. "To the poor".

And it echoes what I have posted before about how the concept of charity for instance to Africa is very disfunctional, doesn't work, and in many cases makes things worse. A video by the people in the charity business, and those recipients of the charity of 'give the poor a fish'.

The problem I have witnessed, many years ago, was the cycle caused by that. The more you feed those starving, barefoot, tin shack, dirt floor Africans, the more the reproduce and cause ... more poverty ... not less.

And the only organization that I have found that has some of that idea and tries to foster self sufficiency to any degree is ... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And yes, I also know, having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years, the 'spare change man' druggie, drinking phonies.

Most of whom I found knew far more than me about available recovery programs, but just weren't, like George Jones ready yet.

So, everybody has a different solution but I don't think liquidating the church is a good one, nor causing more poverty.
dc

I’m glad that you didn’t mean to lie or misrepresent what I believe. I’m sorry I was a bit harsh in accusing you. I hope you will understand where I’m coming from, better.

It seems - & correct me if I’m mistaken - that you are painting this with a broad pessimistic brush - assuming that all charities become corrupt or ineffective and so the church ought to just keep hoarding money intended for the poor. That doesn’t make sense logically and is counter to what Christ taught in prioritizing those in need. Many charities have been successful in empowering those in need to become self-sufficient, or have helped many with clean water, health care, etc. Education, to me, is largely based on the idea of you teach a man to fish - not just give him fish.

Legitimate, HONEST charities report their financial records - the church does NOT do this & for that reason and others, I don’t trust them with sacred funds. The lds church needs to learn from many other non-profit charities which are open and honest with their dealings with their fellow man... https://www.charitynavigator.org/

The law of tithing in Deuteronomy 14:28-29 states that at least 1/3 of TITHES are to go to those in need. As Nightlight pointed out, Christ asked the rich to give more of what God’s blessed them with - but they refuse.

Lds church financial corruption is undeniable - even independent of this hoarding of BILLION$...

1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.



The lds church has a lot of good - especially at the local level - the people. But evil, greed & dishonesty has crept in and is hurting a lot of people.

[nightlight]

19Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The Lamp of the Body

(Luke 11:33-36)

22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Do Not Worry

(Luke 12:22-34)

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.