Poll: Effect of $100B Church Fund

[drtanner]

I may be way off on this one but whatever amount is being stashed, it is not the Lord's money. The money was created by and belongs to the federal reserve (bank of canada, banco centrale de costa rica... depending where you live). I believe that the scripture about rendering unto caesar means that we should not be using caesar's money. To think of it, my currency is the only thing I have that has caesar's name on it.

That $100 billion (amount does not matter) currently has the power to feed, clothe and house many of the world's poor. That power will not always be there because the value of the dollar is set by the people who created the dollar. Right now our dollars are worth less and less every year because the creators of the money are printing more and more dollars that are not backed up by anything. Sooner or later, that $100 MM might be worth nothing and its power to feed and clothe will have been wasted.

There are many verses and stories in the scriptures about money but one of my favourites is found in the book of Mark, chapter 10. Verse 21: Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

To think that the creator of the universe requires money to do good on earth is laughable. The church can either use its wealth to feed the poor or it can squander it on malls... 1-2-3, Let's go shopping!

It's not going to end well.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

Read what the D&C and the Book of Mormon say about money and how the Lord uses it to accomplish his work. God won’t steer a parked car and money is just another vehicle. (Even though he is full capable of doing so) This is more ignorance.

[Chip]

This $90B increase is the result of clever money managers capturing Fed-created dollars that were conjured to push the stock market higher. Nobody ar Ensign Peak Advisors did anything to earn $90B, for sure. They recognized the big game going on and they played it well.

[MikeMaillet]

I've read what the Book of Mormon and the D&C say about money. The difference is that since the end of 1913 (a bit later for us Canadians) the money and its creators have changed. In the past a bank note was a receipt for something of value that was held at the bank so that instead of walking around with gold and silver in one's pocket, one merely had to exchange the receipt for the gold/silver with the recipient of the receipt knowing that if the bank was reputable, the recipient would be able to cash the note for the real asset. This is no longer the case. Our money is backed up by nothing and is created at will by the federal reserve (bank of Canada for me), a satanic organization. These endless bank notes are what make it easy to fund wars, bribe politicians... even going shopping!

I highly recommend, "End The Fed" by Ron Paul for a quick glimpse at how and where our money originates.

We tied the noose around our necks the day we accepted Satan's money.

All the best,

Mike

[Chip]

Yes, we are living in a phony-money universe. The higher you go, the bigger the sums, the less of a meritocracy it is.

[Trucker]

We don't want to be associated with these Gentiles:

20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 2?lang=eng

I think one way of grinding the faces of the poor is demanding more and more out of them, without giving anything in return. The Catholic Church was able to extract a lot from the poor in the past, but not now. I don't know if any church can really do this now, except with threats of damnation or lost salvation if they don't comply.

But we could be too demanding of people who are struggling, and shaming from if they protest their treatment.

[Alaris]

It seems that many saints who are struggling with this haven't truly internalized that:

A. This was always the Lord's money
B. The prophets who lead this church are in fact the Lord's prophets
C. The Lord can do with His money whatever He wishes.


... what if Caesar's attempt to tax the Lord's portion is what awakens the Lion Nation? ... Deleted some of the original post for space... Might the taxation of the Lord's money be a part of what triggers the wrath that ends in fire from which tithing itself protects us as "fire insurance?"

Alaris - based on your comments above, I can only deduce your avatar is an actual selfie, and that your helmet is on way too tight. Take it off, so you can see with your own eyes, and think more clearly. Money itself is a construct that was foisted upon the inhabitants of this world. Remember whose plan it was to create money in the first place, and use it to dominate the world...pretty successful strategy to date.

Responses to your points above:
A. I'm willing to bet the Lord has no interest in earthly money. His interest is in how we use our stewardship (and that can be money, time or any other resource we have) to further His purposes. The use of money is a test for us, not Him.

B. I have never, in all my decades of being a member of the church, had a single confirmation that this postulate is "true", therefore, in my mind church leaders have no greater or lesser ability to "lead" (including administration of tithing funds) than anyone does. Because they require members to pay tithing in order to receive the greatest blessings, it could be argued church leaders have a greater responsibility to correctly administer tithing funds that are thus "donated" to the church, and that leads to the discussion of the value amassing $100B v using current funds to address obvious earthly needs. (It could also be reasonably argued that they are selling their tokens for money, but that is a bit off topic to this discussion, so I will forbear to follow that trail...)

C. The Lord does not need money to get things done, should He choose to get something done in this world. He can do it Himself, or (more likely) rely on individuals to follow impressions and accomplish His work.

As to the trigger words "fire insurance", rely on your ability to do what is right and upon God's mercy for fire insurance - a pile of donated cash will not suffice without the correct intent anyway...

Just a bit of advice here Obrien - leading a post with an insult reads like, "I need this insult to strengthen my position because I'm not 100 % firm in my own viewpoint." This is even more odd given the fact that A and C are wise and do not contradict my beliefs or my post in the slightest. Tithing is the Lord's money and ... oh I see what you may have been saying here. Are you saying that since He has no interest in the money, that the nation taxing tithing would not set Him off? .... yeah no. More on that in a moment.

*Edit* For B, I believe you are saying you don't have a testimony of the prophets. I'm sorry you feel that way. I invite you to seek out a witness here, readying yourself either for a negative or a positive confirmation.

Recently, I had a lengthy discussion over the phone with one my friends here on LDSFF. I actually made your points A and C to illustrate that the principle of tithing isn't about the Lord but about us. Tithing is a commandment. If you have children, perhaps you can relate to this: When I give my kids exact instructions and tell them to follow them exactly .... they will inevitably take their own counsel much of the time, and then in those situations of keeping their own counsel, something will blow up in their face. "What have we learned today?" is the inevitable follow up question. Dad knows best. Amirite?

So back to tithing. You can believe this and that about what should be tithed - I am really not interested in that discussion though it's not hard to divine what I believe based off my caesar comments above and gross. (seriously not interested in that debate) However, the aspect of the commandment that is absolute is the tenth aspect. Ten percent. Not eleven. Not nine. Not 10.1 and not 9.9. Seek the Lord to confirm what you believe should be tithed and then round the penny. Giving a little extra is as much as a disobedience to the commandment as not giving enough because of A & C - like you said wisely, The Lord not only doesn't need your "little extra." He doesn't need it at all. The principle is for us.

And those prophets and apostles are people too - and their capacity is exactly where the Lord wants it. So, tithing is to them the exact same tool for their progression as it is for ours. They are learning to be God's themselves one day by being stewards of His church from which His kingdom is born. They know this. And you're right - the Lord could wipe away the 100 B overnight and still accomplish all His purposes. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what He does one day when the curtain unveils and we are shown that in fact one of the many purposes of this large stash of cash was to sift out those who fall to pieces over it's mere existence.

Circling back to what your point may have been in regards to whether the Lord would be stirred by the nation touching His money. Whether He cares, needs, or uses this money, the attempt by Caesar to take what is the Lord's could absolutely incite His wrath. There are laws irrevocably decreed, and I'm sure there are laws for that in the books of heaven. I can't imagine those books reading, "If Caesar takes from the Lord's storehouse....no big deal" We're talking about the same God who decimated the land of Canaan - every living thing - to make way for His chosen people. If that's not a type for the world to come ...

[drtanner]

I've read what the Book of Mormon and the D&C say about money. The difference is that since the end of 1913 (a bit later for us Canadians) the money and its creators have changed. In the past a bank note was a receipt for something of value that was held at the bank so that instead of walking around with gold and silver in one's pocket, one merely had to exchange the receipt for the gold/silver with the recipient of the receipt knowing that if the bank was reputable, the recipient would be able to cash the note for the real asset. This is no longer the case. Our money is backed up by nothing and is created at will by the federal reserve (bank of Canada for me), a satanic organization. These endless bank notes are what make it easy to fund wars, bribe politicians... even going shopping!

I highly recommend, "End The Fed" by Ron Paul for a quick glimpse at how and where our money originates.

We tied the noose around our necks the day we accepted Satan's money.

All the best,

Mike

I agree with “end the fed”, in the meantime there is work to do and a system it has to be done within.

[Alaris]

There is literally a parable about investing your money wisely so that it grows/multiplies instead of hiding it under a rock until the Lord returns. Sounds like the stewards are doing what they're supposed to.

If they don't do it right, it means nothing to me individually: they'll have to answer for their own sins. As for me and the Lord? He knows my heart's intent when I write the check every month.

I totally agree with this. In fact, the prophets could have blundered and lost most of this money and still be the Lord's prophets as long as their intent was pure. Imagine how many would have melted in such a scenario. These are the same order of apostle who seemed like children in stature next to the Lord Jesus Christ, and like Dr. Tanner's point above, the Lord was merciful to them in His teachings, His chastisements & corrections etc.

D&C 50:40 Behold, ye are little children and ye cannot bear all things now; ye must grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth.
41 Fear not, little children, for you are mine, and I have overcome the world, and you are of them that my Father hath given me;
42 And none of them that my Father hath given me shall be lost.

Verse 42 in particular aligns to John 17 where the Lord is praying for the Apostles and mentions the fact that the Father gave them to Him.

[Trucker]

There is literally a parable about investing your money wisely so that it grows/multiplies instead of hiding it under a rock until the Lord returns. Sounds like the stewards are doing what they're supposed to.

If they don't do it right, it means nothing to me individually: they'll have to answer for their own sins. As for me and the Lord? He knows my heart's intent when I write the check every month.

I totally agree with this. In fact, the prophets could have blundered and lost most of this money and still be the Lord's prophets as long as their intent was pure. Imagine how many would have melted in such a scenario. These are the same order of apostle who seemed like children in stature next to the Lord Jesus Christ, and like Dr. Tanner's point above, the Lord was merciful to them in His teachings, His chastisements & corrections etc.

D&C 50:40 Behold, ye are little children and ye cannot bear all things now; ye must grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth.
41 Fear not, little children, for you are mine, and I have overcome the world, and you are of them that my Father hath given me;
42 And none of them that my Father hath given me shall be lost.

Verse 42 in particular aligns to John 17 where the Lord is praying for the Apostles and mentions the fact that the Father gave them to Him.

I think this is a good perspective. Bad (unwise, faulty, whatever) money handling doesn't mean church leaders are fallen or that the church is not true. On the contrary. It means they are fallible men and we should not just blindly follow or trust in the arm of flesh. I think we as a church have generally substituted faith in God with faith in the brethren, and think they can do no wrong. That is A) not true, and B) not healthy, for the church or the leaders.

[iWriteStuff]

I love the fact that I'm learning more from this experience than I had anticipated. Kinda makes this "shocking reveal" more of a blessing than not.

Thanks, all, for your perspectives.

[MikeMaillet]

I've been reading the past comments again in case I had missed someone's opinion and viewpoint. A few comments ago someone brought up the parable of the talents. Why do we assume that the "talent" is monetary?

[Trucker]

I've been reading the past comments again in case I had missed someone's opinion and viewpoint. A few comments ago someone brought up the parable of the talents. Why do we assume that the "talent" is monetary?

That's wild, because I just posted on this here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53377&p=987779#p987779. And the answer is that it is not monetary

[Michelle]

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[Michelle]

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[nightlight]

The height of a stack of 100,000,000,000 (one hundred billion) one dollar bills measures 6,786.6 miles.

[MikeMaillet]

Sputnik's apogee altitude was a mere 583 miles.

[mtm411]

This does make me feel even better about paying on net.

[hedgehog]

Not my money not my problem.

I do not trust any of the media or leakers to tell the truth.

That said the comments I have seen from lifelong good members has shown me a fracture among the saints that's being targeted.

Satan wants to divide the saints, take our guns so we can be holocausted, and to stop temples. These two recent major events are HUGE steps toward that goal. I don't get how everyone doesn't see what's happening . This IS a major spiritual earthquake.

That said, I wrestled with the spirit until I was assured my kids had a chance for good future and would not just be more meat for the world's grinder.

[largerthanlife]

Everyone should pay taxes just as everyone is expected to pay tithing. If a church or charity or endowment makes money trading stocks, they should pay taxes. They all use the same government services.

[Aprhys]

I am sitting here wondering what those folks in Zimbabwe are thinking about Neil Andersons "we are not a wealthy people..." comment now?

[LukeAir2008]

I am sitting here wondering what those folks in Zimbabwe are thinking about Neil Andersons "we are not a wealthy people..." comment now?

Those poor folks are probably in that naive and gullible state that I was once in where they believe that this great white man meets up with Jesus every Thursday in the Salt Lake Temple and it must be Jesus that tells them to gamble the tithing funds on the stock market and amass billions of dollars while children starve.

Because of course if Jesus commands it, it must be ok.

And of course if you told them that President Oaks has admitted that none of them have ever seen or even heard from Jesus they would think you were an agent of satan and were making up terrible anti mormon lies.

[Aprhys]

I am sitting here wondering what those folks in Zimbabwe are thinking about Neil Andersons "we are not a wealthy people..." comment now?

Those poor folks are probably in that naive and gullible state that I was once in where they believe that this great white man meets up with Jesus every Thursday in the Salt Lake Temple and it must be Jesus that tells them to gamble the tithing funds on the stock market and amass billions of dollars while children starve.

Because of course if Jesus commands it, it must be ok.

And of course if you told them that President Oaks has admitted that none of them have ever seen or even heard from Jesus they would think you were an agent of satan and were making up terrible anti mormon lies.

I believe you are correct. I had a discussion with my elderly mother the other day regarding the 100b controvery and she refused to believe that any of the church leaders received a single penny for their service. She holds on to the myth that they all are strictly volunteers. I guess old myrhs die hard.

[LukeAir2008]

I am sitting here wondering what those folks in Zimbabwe are thinking about Neil Andersons "we are not a wealthy people..." comment now?

Those poor folks are probably in that naive and gullible state that I was once in where they believe that this great white man meets up with Jesus every Thursday in the Salt Lake Temple and it must be Jesus that tells them to gamble the tithing funds on the stock market and amass billions of dollars while children starve.

Because of course if Jesus commands it, it must be ok.

And of course if you told them that President Oaks has admitted that none of them have ever seen or even heard from Jesus they would think you were an agent of satan and were making up terrible anti mormon lies.

I believe you are correct. I had a discussion with my elderly mother the other day regarding the 100b controvery and she refused to believe that any of the church leaders received a single penny for their service. She holds on to the myth that they all are strictly volunteers. I guess old myrhs die hard.

Yes I’m sure she wouldn’t want to see President Eyrings pay stubs because of course he doesn’t really get paid does he?

https://www.docdroid.net/file/download/ ... dacted.pdf

[LukeAir2008]

We know how much all full time GA’s get paid - 10k a month or 120k annually.

That was in January 2014 so they’ve probably had a pay rise since then:

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6 ... -01-02.pdf.

[Trucker]

We know how much all full time GA’s get paid - 10k a month or 120k annually.

That was in January 2014 so they’ve probably had a pay rise since then:

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6 ... -01-02.pdf.

I think this is fine. In fact, I wish we had more paid clergy.

I think also giving GAs a stipend frees them up from having to worry about finances, and it should eliminate and desire to get rich, since they get a guaranteed income. At least it makes sense to me in theory. Not sure it's the only or the best option.