What must change to sustain our future?

[JohnnyL]

We've had some great threads over the last few months about the unsustainability of American, and especially American LDS, lifestyles.

These have included:
lack of marriage,
lack of children,
very difficult financial times,
increasing laws and government regulations,
failing health,
high medical costs,
high college education costs,
etc.

Most importantly, what CULTURAL beliefs/ things can we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ change so that we and (our) future generations will have life?

[John Tavner]

Actually begin to believe in the gifts of the Spirit again.

[Zathura]

Actually begin to believe in the gifts of the Spirit again.

Including , and especially, the gift of the Holy Ghost

[buffalo_girl]

We need to not only believe in the Gifts of the Spirit, but to be confident in their use.

I am troubled by reliance upon digital sources to teach Gospel Principles in Relief Society and Primary.

Last Sunday our RS teacher had us watch "A Nativity Story" on our individual 'devices'. Not all of us has a 'device', so we had to group up with those who do have them. Every phone or tablet began, & was playing the video at a different place so the room was a cacophony of overlapped sound.

Mind you, "A Nativity Story" is an inspired representation of Christ's mortal beginnings, in my opinion. Although the sisters were individually touched by the video it was not a shared spiritual experience directed by the Holy Spirit. Even when we were sharing specific insights, there was a lack of unity in understanding one another. Sad.

[Michelle]

We need to not only believe in the Gifts of the Spirit, but to be confident in their use.

I am troubled by reliance upon digital sources to teach Gospel Principles in Relief Society and Primary.

Last Sunday our RS teacher had us watch "A Nativity Story" on our individual 'devices'. Not all of us has a 'device', so we had to group up with those who do have them. Every phone or tablet began, & was playing the video at a different place so the room was a cacophony of overlapped sound.

Mind you, "A Nativity Story" is an inspired representation of Christ's mortal beginnings, in my opinion. Although the sisters were individually touched by the video it was not a shared spiritual experience directed by the Holy Spirit. Even when we were sharing specific insights, there was a lack of unity in understanding one another. Sad.

Thank you! I agree.

[Gage]

We need to not only believe in the Gifts of the Spirit, but to be confident in their use.

I am troubled by reliance upon digital sources to teach Gospel Principles in Relief Society and Primary.

Last Sunday our RS teacher had us watch "A Nativity Story" on our individual 'devices'. Not all of us has a 'device', so we had to group up with those who do have them. Every phone or tablet began, & was playing the video at a different place so the room was a cacophony of overlapped sound.

Mind you, "A Nativity Story" is an inspired representation of Christ's mortal beginnings, in my opinion. Although the sisters were individually touched by the video it was not a shared spiritual experience directed by the Holy Spirit. Even when we were sharing specific insights, there was a lack of unity in understanding one another. Sad.

I bet a lot of things that take place in RS lack unity.

[Allison]

We've had some great threads over the last few months about the unsustainability of American, and especially American LDS, lifestyles.

These have included:
lack of marriage,
lack of children,
very difficult financial times,
increasing laws and government regulations,
failing health,
high medical costs,
high college education costs,
etc.

Most importantly, what CULTURAL beliefs/ things can we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ change so that we and (our) future generations will have life?

Socialism, in the form of entitlements.

Also, turning a blind eye to gossip.

[EmmaLee]

what CULTURAL beliefs/ things can we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ change so that we and (our) future generations will have life?

Gaining an accurate, true understanding of what "love" actually is - as opposed to the "anything goes and you have to support/condone my "anything goes" or you don't love me" false version of "love" that is overwhelmingly prevalent today in the Church.

[MMbelieve]

We need to not only believe in the Gifts of the Spirit, but to be confident in their use.

I am troubled by reliance upon digital sources to teach Gospel Principles in Relief Society and Primary.

Last Sunday our RS teacher had us watch "A Nativity Story" on our individual 'devices'. Not all of us has a 'device', so we had to group up with those who do have them. Every phone or tablet began, & was playing the video at a different place so the room was a cacophony of overlapped sound.

Mind you, "A Nativity Story" is an inspired representation of Christ's mortal beginnings, in my opinion. Although the sisters were individually touched by the video it was not a shared spiritual experience directed by the Holy Spirit. Even when we were sharing specific insights, there was a lack of unity in understanding one another. Sad.

I bet a lot of things that take place in RS lack unity.

There is a lack of unity everywhere.

[buffalo_girl]

I bet a lot of things that take place in RS lack unity.

Not sure what you base your comment on....

[drtanner]

Teach the history and principles found in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and George Washington’s farewell address.

[Ferrisbueller]

Simple answer to the original post topic question. Divine intervention needs to happen.

[buffalo_girl]

Divine intervention needs to happen.

As a Church, are we worthy and prepared for that?

I know Divine Intervention occurs in our individual lives and families.

Again, are we worthy to exercise the full capacity of the Melchizedek Priesthood?

JST Genesis 14
26 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.

30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course;

31 To put at defiance the armies of nations, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God which was from before the foundation of the world.

32 And men having this faith, coming up unto this order of God, were translated and taken up into heaven.

[BeNotDeceived]

Simple answer to the original post topic question. Divine intervention needs to happen.

Chaff burnt, dross trodden under foot, and lesser intelligences removed, but the time is not yet.

[JohnnyL]

Changes we can make personally, to a great degree:

1. Don't wait too long to get married.

2. Live at home or with relatives.

3. Low-energy, high solar/geothermal/etc., basic houses.

4. More internet work.

5. More emphasis on self-learning/ technical colleges/ etc, online degrees.

6. Christian insurance.

7. Alternative medicine and healing.

8. Gardening, gardening, and farming.

9. Pooling resources, like the Chinese multi-generational family does.

10. No vaccines, least pharmaceuticals.

11. Limited screen, especially for younger children.

12. EMF safety, etc.

13. Exercise, playing, self-defense.

14. ?

[PickleRick]

Find the balance.

Remove materialism, while still acknowledging that we have physical needs and being responsible for filling them.
Help others, but realize that ultimately the best service we can provide is tot each them to become self-sufficient.
Be compassionate to others and yourself, but don't make excuses for either.
Seek to understand true principles, but realize that knowledge without action has no power.
on the other hand, seek to take action, but realize that action without sound judgement is hazardous at best.

I like all of JohnnyL's ideas

Divine intervention is coming whether we are worthy of it or not. Our worthiness will only determine if we are the beneficiaries or the target.

We cannot live separate lives on Sunday and the other 6 days. Babylon or Zion.

[JohnnyL]

Oh, yeah, real history, at least as real as you can get. Buy (history) books from tomatobubble.com. The Civil War is critical; once you get that, you can get most anything.

Someone mentioned John Taylor Gatto on another thread--yes, people like him who have been in the system, been the best, and see what is wrong and corrupt with it. Study Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro.

Materialism is huge. Trying to be a Jones when you're a Butkowski isn't going to make it. Caring what others care about, caring what others think about you and what you do, thinking God will bless you so just go ahead and buy what you want--just STOP.

Above all: priorities. Worst, worse, bad, neutral, good, better, best. We're stuck on the last three, thinking those are the only thee choices LDS can make, lol. In this day of pampering, helicoptering, and no punishment, I see few parent choices that are better and rarely see choices that are best for their children.

[buffalo_girl]

Trying to be a Jones when you're a Butkowski isn't going to make it.

Are you talking to me?! (I'm kidding.) My husband's family name is Kurszewski.

As he always says, "We are financial dyslectics." It does keep us humble, and although we are without consumer debt, we have an ongoing struggle to stay ahead of 'essential' costs which increase yearly, like property taxes, insurance, and home, farm equipment & car upkeep.

We live pretty rough compared to most folks we know from church.

[righteousrepublic]

I'm sorry, but what kind of future are we talking about? A future under the rule of New World Order, or in regaining freedom and liberty as our Founder's intended?

[JohnnyL]

Trying to be a Jones when you're a Butkowski isn't going to make it.

Are you talking to me?! (I'm kidding.) My husband's family name is Kurszewski.

As he always says, "We are financial dyslectics." It does keep us humble, and although we are without consumer debt, we have an ongoing struggle to stay ahead of 'essential' costs which increase yearly, like property taxes, insurance, and home, farm equipment & car upkeep.

We live pretty rough compared to most folks we know from church.

Whoops, close call!

You hit a key: no consumer debt. A lot of nice big homes in our ward, and nice cars, etc.--I'll bet a lot is owed by all these well-off people. More than a few two-income families with kids in daycare, I think.

Yeah, property taxes went up by quite a bit two years in a row... That's hurting people, too. Especially when they turn around and waste it on "education", can't get the results they want, so ask for even more money.

I muscle tested our vehicles to find one that would be best ROI--that has worked out very well. I never would have bought one otherwise (great deal, gem that looked like coal), and would have paid way too much for the other.

Looking to have food tax increased from 1+% to 5+%... That wil have a huge impact. Govt. wants more and more to do less and less...

[buffalo_girl]

Yeah, property taxes went up by quite a bit two years in a row... That's hurting people, too. Especially when they turn around and waste it on "education", can't get the results they want, so ask for even more money.

My husband's family on both sides are highly productive and successful people. I don't believe any of them had more than high school. (My father - on the other hand - was a college educated public school teacher and French Horn player. He was not a responsible husband and father. My mother had to divorce him and raise me on her own as a public school teacher.)

So maybe my husband's Polish folk were the more self-reliant. One branch on his mother's side still own the farm their great-great- grandparents began to farm in the late 1800's. There remains a beautiful 3-storey home situated within mature fruit trees & vines, barns, pastureland, and hardwood timber they carefully harvest for quite a return. It has passed down through generations.

As to 'education'...fully 40% of our property taxes support a ridiculous public school educational system. I have occasionally worked tutoring children one-on-one as a volunteer and for minimum wage in two states. The purchased curriculum required by both federal and state prove worthless in teaching children & young adults critical thinking, self-reliance, and accountability to oneself and others. I have taught youngsters who couldn't read when we began, to love going to the library to pick out the next book. I taught one cursive to help correct her eyesight issues, and another to solve his arithmetic problems by lining up his figures on graph paper so his eyes didn't play tricks on him. These kids learned from me using only paper, pencil, and library books.

My mother was a brilliant teacher who could adapt her approach to teaching children with learning differences almost instinctively. There were no Special Ed classes during her time, and after WWII most elementary classes had a minimum of 32 students. My poor third grade teacher had a nervous breakdown and entered a convent at the end of that year; there were 45 kids in the class! She did it all for us, no PE, no music, art, or relief periods during the day. Now, every child 'needs' a computer, a tablet, a cell phone & a calculator.

A good deal of our resources are wasted on nonsense!

[mudflap]

Changes we can make personally, to a great degree:

1. Don't wait too long to get married.

2. Live at home or with relatives.

3. Low-energy, high solar/geothermal/etc., basic houses.

4. More internet work.

5. More emphasis on self-learning/ technical colleges/ etc, online degrees.

6. Christian insurance.

7. Alternative medicine and healing.

8. Gardening, gardening, and farming.

9. Pooling resources, like the Chinese multi-generational family does.

10. No vaccines, least pharmaceuticals.

11. Limited screen, especially for younger children.

12. EMF safety, etc.

13. Exercise, playing, self-defense.

14. ?

14. Get out and stay out of debt. Even a home mortgage is unnecessary.

[JohnnyL]

Changes we can make personally, to a great degree:

1. Don't wait too long to get married.

2. Live at home or with relatives.

3. Low-energy, high solar/geothermal/etc., basic houses.

4. More internet work.

5. More emphasis on self-learning/ technical colleges/ etc, online degrees.

6. Christian insurance.

7. Alternative medicine and healing.

8. Gardening, gardening, and farming.

9. Pooling resources, like the Chinese multi-generational family does.

10. No vaccines, least pharmaceuticals.

11. Limited screen, especially for younger children.

12. EMF safety, etc.

13. Exercise, playing, self-defense.

14. ?

14. Get out and stay out of debt. Even a home mortgage is unnecessary.

Big one there! I was thinking of that when I wrote #9, but failed to mention it. The Chinese rarely go into debt--they pay cash for real estate when they can; they all live together and pay off the mortgage, then save up for a big down payment or all the price of the next house, send out the married couple to buy it, then continue to do the same--everyone pays mortgage money to dad and mom until every child has a house, and they continue to do this until every child has a house paid for in cash, no loans, no interest, not "mortgage protection insurance", etc.

With a family of three children, this means they saved, on $200,000 for a house, over $1,000,000 dollars! "Oh, but we can't live with our parents and siblings after we get married!" They've been doing it for a long, long time--that's a lot of money saved.

[mudflap]

Changes we can make personally, to a great degree:

1. Don't wait too long to get married.

2. Live at home or with relatives.

3. Low-energy, high solar/geothermal/etc., basic houses.

4. More internet work.

5. More emphasis on self-learning/ technical colleges/ etc, online degrees.

6. Christian insurance.

7. Alternative medicine and healing.

8. Gardening, gardening, and farming.

9. Pooling resources, like the Chinese multi-generational family does.

10. No vaccines, least pharmaceuticals.

11. Limited screen, especially for younger children.

12. EMF safety, etc.

13. Exercise, playing, self-defense.

14. ?

14. Get out and stay out of debt. Even a home mortgage is unnecessary.

Big one there! I was thinking of that when I wrote #9, but failed to mention it. The Chinese rarely go into debt--they pay cash for real estate when they can; they all live together and pay off the mortgage, then save up for a big down payment or all the price of the next house, send out the married couple to buy it, then continue to do the same--everyone pays mortgage money to dad and mom until every child has a house, and they continue to do this until every child has a house paid for in cash, no loans, no interest, not "mortgage protection insurance", etc.

With a family of three children, this means they saved, on $200,000 for a house, over $1,000,000 dollars! "Oh, but we can't live with our parents and siblings after we get married!" They've been doing it for a long, long time--that's a lot of money saved.

nice. that's how it should be. but we (Americans) are too selfish to pool resources.

In the log home builders association (LHBA), we have some members from Russia. One of them told me he was surprised when he moved to America and saw buildings being torn down- he said they don't often do that in Europe/Russia. "Building a new house" is mostly an American thing. They have buildings in use since the middle ages. Homes are passed down from generation to generation.

I had a missionary companion whose grandparents bought an entire city block. all the children and grandchildren shared backyards.

My neighbors where I'm building have 4 children. He deeded each of them 5 acres out of his 25 that he inherited from his father. His grandfather had 160 acres that he settled back in the 1800's.

I always thought that would be a cool idea- have a family fund, everyone grows up, gets a job, pays into the family fund. The "family bank" issues "loans" or "gifts" to each member who needs a home. Or business ventures, or education. But no. we're all too selfish to make something like that successful. greedy and selfish. And lazy:

Even one of my step-kids, who has never contributed more than 30 minutes total to building this home (and we paid him to help that time) - even he said, "so, when you die, can I have your house?" I said, "no. you haven't contributed to it. Your 7 yr old sister has spent 10 times as much time building it more than you have. why do you think you deserve it more than her?"

"Because I'm your step-son."

ha ha. no. the laborer is worthy of his wages, but the idler shall not eat the bread of the land.

[JohnnyL]

Yeah, property taxes went up by quite a bit two years in a row... That's hurting people, too. Especially when they turn around and waste it on "education", can't get the results they want, so ask for even more money.

My husband's family on both sides are highly productive and successful people. I don't believe any of them had more than high school. (My father - on the other hand - was a college educated public school teacher and French Horn player. He was not a responsible husband and father. My mother had to divorce him and raise me on her own as a public school teacher.)

So maybe my husband's Polish folk were the more self-reliant. One branch on his mother's side still own the farm their great-great- grandparents began to farm in the late 1800's. There remains a beautiful 3-storey home situated within mature fruit trees & vines, barns, pastureland, and hardwood timber they carefully harvest for quite a return. It has passed down through generations.

As to 'education'...fully 40% of our property taxes support a ridiculous public school educational system. I have occasionally worked tutoring children one-on-one as a volunteer and for minimum wage in two states. The purchased curriculum required by both federal and state prove worthless in teaching children & young adults critical thinking, self-reliance, and accountability to oneself and others. I have taught youngsters who couldn't read when we began, to love going to the library to pick out the next book. I taught one cursive to help correct her eyesight issues, and another to solve his arithmetic problems by lining up his figures on graph paper so his eyes didn't play tricks on him. These kids learned from me using only paper, pencil, and library books.

My mother was a brilliant teacher who could adapt her approach to teaching children with learning differences almost instinctively. There were no Special Ed classes during her time, and after WWII most elementary classes had a minimum of 32 students. My poor third grade teacher had a nervous breakdown and entered a convent at the end of that year; there were 45 kids in the class! She did it all for us, no PE, no music, art, or relief periods during the day. Now, every child 'needs' a computer, a tablet, a cell phone & a calculator.

A good deal of our resources are wasted on nonsense!

Things built to last... Don't see much of that anymore.

Impressive what good people who help can do! Most teachers never figure out why something isn't working for someone, over the course of a school year.

We've changed curriculum four times in five years, paying through the nose each time. Always chasing the shiny object that will surely help test scores improve.

With everything going against improving test scores, most school districts and schools still have goals of "Our test scores will improve 2% each year." Ha ha, forget it! If you could get a - <=1% loss each year, that would be impressive.

You want test scores to improve?
Like Chris Rock said, "Knock them out." Get strict.
Take away the electronics.
Separate them into levels.
Continually ask parents to read.
Hire a whole bunch of reading tutors for the lower levels (with all the money you save from electronics, especially personal computers for ALL elementary students--yes, K-6--in Title I schools!!). Hey wait, that's what resource is for!! Schools already have many hired aids for that.

They just tried to pass a resolution for extra millions for education here, in addition to raising property taxes. I guarantee that for government, and especially for education, more money = more waste.

I feel somewhat safe saying that when the high school student 100 years ago could outperform the top 5-3% of the top students now, money is not the key, never has been, and never will be.

John Taylor Gatto made that his first topic of attack in "The Underground History of American Education".

I could go on and on about how the education system is broken, in detail. We will be walking through deep manure fields in 20-30 years when these children are the "grown-up" workers in society. Parents don't see it, thinking it's all on the teacher. Soccer is so much more important than reading, even if your child does read two grades below level...