Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

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mes5464
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by mes5464 »

gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 9:48 am Speaking as a clerk here there are all sorts of situations where we record only the birth mother and not the father, most often when the father is not known to the mother, that happens more often that you might think for example when the birth is the result of a sperm donation and the birth certificates mark the father as "unknown" if the woman is single. It can also happen in situations where the woman has had multiple sex partners.

So it isn't always the case that we know or can know who the XY partner is. Sperm donation would, I assume be a common method of same sex female couples employ to have children and in such cases the male would never be known.
We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.

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gkearney
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by gkearney »

mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 9:48 am Speaking as a clerk here there are all sorts of situations where we record only the birth mother and not the father, most often when the father is not known to the mother, that happens more often that you might think for example when the birth is the result of a sperm donation and the birth certificates mark the father as "unknown" if the woman is single. It can also happen in situations where the woman has had multiple sex partners.

So it isn't always the case that we know or can know who the XY partner is. Sperm donation would, I assume be a common method of same sex female couples employ to have children and in such cases the male would never be known.
We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.) while HF knows who is involved here, we do not know and so for record keeping we are not able to offer up any such name.

The matter will likely only become more muddled as time go on and we start to develop cloning of humans and other non-traditional methods of reproduction which very well might not ever involve sexual reproduction as we now know it. What then?

EmmaLee
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Posts: 10893

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by EmmaLee »

gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 11:25 am
mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 9:48 am Speaking as a clerk here there are all sorts of situations where we record only the birth mother and not the father, most often when the father is not known to the mother, that happens more often that you might think for example when the birth is the result of a sperm donation and the birth certificates mark the father as "unknown" if the woman is single. It can also happen in situations where the woman has had multiple sex partners.

So it isn't always the case that we know or can know who the XY partner is. Sperm donation would, I assume be a common method of same sex female couples employ to have children and in such cases the male would never be known.
We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.)
Church Handbook of Instruction says this on sperm donation, and other related topics -

21.4.13

Sperm Donation
The Church strongly discourages the donation of sperm.

21.4.3

Artificial Insemination
The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.7

In Vitro Fertilization
The Church strongly discourages in vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood
The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.10

Same-Gender Marriages
As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman.

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gkearney
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by gkearney »

EmmaLee wrote: December 15th, 2019, 2:45 pm
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 11:25 am
mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 9:48 am Speaking as a clerk here there are all sorts of situations where we record only the birth mother and not the father, most often when the father is not known to the mother, that happens more often that you might think for example when the birth is the result of a sperm donation and the birth certificates mark the father as "unknown" if the woman is single. It can also happen in situations where the woman has had multiple sex partners.

So it isn't always the case that we know or can know who the XY partner is. Sperm donation would, I assume be a common method of same sex female couples employ to have children and in such cases the male would never be known.
We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.)
Church Handbook of Instruction says this on sperm donation, and other related topics -

21.4.13

Sperm Donation
The Church strongly discourages the donation of sperm.

21.4.3

Artificial Insemination
The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.7

In Vitro Fertilization
The Church strongly discourages in vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood
The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.10

Same-Gender Marriages
As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman.

"Strongly discourages" does not equal "it's a sin".

EmmaLee
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Posts: 10893

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by EmmaLee »

gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm
EmmaLee wrote: December 15th, 2019, 2:45 pm
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 11:25 am
mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am

We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.)
Church Handbook of Instruction says this on sperm donation, and other related topics -

21.4.13

Sperm Donation
The Church strongly discourages the donation of sperm.

21.4.3

Artificial Insemination
The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.7

In Vitro Fertilization
The Church strongly discourages in vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood
The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.10

Same-Gender Marriages
As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman.

"Strongly discourages" does not equal "it's a sin".
Did I say it did? Nope, sure didn't. Feel free to interpret the CHI any way you like. Everybody else does. Oh, and you're welcome for the information.

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gkearney
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Posts: 5396

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by gkearney »

EmmaLee wrote: December 15th, 2019, 5:23 pm
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm
EmmaLee wrote: December 15th, 2019, 2:45 pm
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 11:25 am

I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.)
Church Handbook of Instruction says this on sperm donation, and other related topics -

21.4.13

Sperm Donation
The Church strongly discourages the donation of sperm.

21.4.3

Artificial Insemination
The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.7

In Vitro Fertilization
The Church strongly discourages in vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood
The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.10

Same-Gender Marriages
As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman.

"Strongly discourages" does not equal "it's a sin".
Did I say it did? Nope, sure didn't. Feel free to interpret the CHI any way you like. Everybody else does. Oh, and you're welcome for the information.

I did not mean to suggest that you said it was a sin. There were others here who did make that suggestion.

largerthanlife
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by largerthanlife »

Geneaology is the study of genes passed through to the next person. It makes no sense to be adding people that are not part of the family tree.

The church is admitting that it will cost a lot of money to redo the whole database.

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SmallFarm
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by SmallFarm »

Zion will be a pluralistic society. It's time to get used to letting people have agency.

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SmallFarm
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by SmallFarm »

largerthanlife wrote: December 15th, 2019, 7:33 pm Geneaology is the study of genes passed through to the next person. It makes no sense to be adding people that are not part of the family tree.

The church is admitting that it will cost a lot of money to redo the whole database.
Adoption? :o

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RocknRoll
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by RocknRoll »

Ferrisbueller wrote: December 14th, 2019, 3:37 pm
jmack wrote: December 14th, 2019, 9:41 am
mes5464 wrote: December 11th, 2019, 7:55 am Same sex couples can't have children! Only a heterosexual couple can conceive a child. That man and woman are the parents, not the same sex couple.
Do we not record legal adoptions? Can a same sex couple adopt children? Can't a same sex marriage between two women end up with a biological child by one of the spouses? Don't these children deserve to be recorded and documented for history? Or are they just to be pointedly ignored in the record keeping business the church is involved in?? Thank god the church isn't as foolish and rejecting as some of its members and luckily they take the responsibility of recording the births, deaths, etc of as many of God's children as they can as the sacred charge it is.
Then they need to be required to be linked to their biological mother AND father. They should not recognize who their adoptive gay parents are. A gay spouse should be denied entry on family search.

So, even though SSM is perfectly legal now, we should pretend that it never happens? Of course they should recognize who their adoptive parents are. As a practical matter, a same-sex couple has the legal, and accepted-and-recognized-by-society, ability to be the parents to a child.

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Luke
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Location: England

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by Luke »

RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?

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RocknRoll
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Posts: 532

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by RocknRoll »

Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?
I guess that depends on what you mean by "pro-LGBT". Are you anti-LGBT?

Lizzy60
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Posts: 8554

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by Lizzy60 »

Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?
RocknRoll has a gay son who is either married or in a relationship with another gay man, and he is constantly promoting the Gay Agenda here on LDSFF. He is a bit passive-aggressive, but when I directed him to Mormons Building Bridges, he said that was probably a good forum for him.

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RocknRoll
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by RocknRoll »

mes5464 wrote: December 11th, 2019, 7:55 am As an adopted person, I have always believed that adoption is recognized by God as legal. We even believe that we, as members of the church, are adopted into the family of Abraham.
Agreed
Only a union between a man and woman can result in children. For same sex couples to have children, then they have to destroy an existing family (man, woman, children) to get children. That original family is the bona fide family not the new artificial family.
This has nothing to do with adoption. By your logic a heterosexual couple that can’t have children naturally is “destroying an existing family” if they adopt. Do you consider your adoptive family an “artificial family”?

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RocknRoll
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by RocknRoll »

Lizzy60 wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:57 pm
Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?
RocknRoll has a gay son who is either married or in a relationship with another gay man, and he is constantly promoting the Gay Agenda here on LDSFF. He is a bit passive-aggressive, but when I directed him to Mormons Building Bridges, he said that was probably a good forum for him.

Yes, my son is Same-Sex Married. And we have welcomed his husband into our family. I don’t know that I’m “constantly promoting the Gay Agenda”. I just call em’ as I see em’. I just see an awful lot of hate, contempt and misinformation concerning LGBT people on this site and I try to bring a little parity. I guess you could also say that Lizzy is constantly arguing that the Apostles and Prophet are wrong on this issue. I’m sure she’ll disagree.

PS. The new revision to Handbook 1 has been published, and the policy from 2015 has now been officially removed. Hmmm...looks like that also applies to the provisions about children in polygamous households. Unless it was moved to a different section. Maybe someone else can verify.

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Luke
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Location: England

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by Luke »

RocknRoll wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:55 pm
Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?
I guess that depends on what you mean by "pro-LGBT". Are you anti-LGBT?
If you mean the people themselves, then of course not. If it’s the acts of homosexual sex etc., then yeah... God calls it an abomination and cannot look upon it with the least degree of allowance.

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RocknRoll
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by RocknRoll »

Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 3:27 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:55 pm
Luke wrote: December 16th, 2019, 2:53 pm
RocknRoll wrote: December 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm Oh no! More for the anti-LGBT crowd to fret about!
https://www.ksl.com/article/46688581/fa ... milysearch

“FamilySearch, one of the most comprehensive collections of genealogical data, now “provides the ability” for families to document same-sex family relationships, according to a Tuesday news release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

How many posts until someone laments about how The Church is “in apostasy” or “the end is near!”.
Let us see…

Are you pro-LGBT then, RocknRoll?
I guess that depends on what you mean by "pro-LGBT". Are you anti-LGBT?
If you mean the people themselves, then of course not. If it’s the acts of homosexual sex etc., then yeah... God calls it an abomination and cannot look upon it with the least degree of allowance.
Well, the acronym LGBT is referring to people, not acts.

OCDMOM
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Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by OCDMOM »

I love Family History work and have a strong Testimony of it. As you work on it you will be blessed with the knowledge of life after death. I will not stop using family search because people generally are way too human. I'm sure I have made mistakes but the great thing is it can be changed back to the correct dates etc. Lets all just do our best. I think I will let God be the judge.

jmack
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Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

Ferrisbueller wrote: December 14th, 2019, 3:37 pm
jmack wrote: December 14th, 2019, 9:41 am
mes5464 wrote: December 11th, 2019, 7:55 am Same sex couples can't have children! Only a heterosexual couple can conceive a child. That man and woman are the parents, not the same sex couple.
Do we not record legal adoptions? Can a same sex couple adopt children? Can't a same sex marriage between two women end up with a biological child by one of the spouses? Don't these children deserve to be recorded and documented for history? Or are they just to be pointedly ignored in the record keeping business the church is involved in?? Thank god the church isn't as foolish and rejecting as some of its members and luckily they take the responsibility of recording the births, deaths, etc of as many of God's children as they can as the sacred charge it is.
Then they need to be required to be linked to their biological mother AND father. They should not recognize who their adoptive gay parents are. A gay spouse should be denied entry on family search.
That horse left the barn a long time ago. You can't even identify the biological father if a woman used a sperm bank, you can't demand a woman name the biological father on the birth certificate. Legal records are still dependent on the person filling it out. You're making demands that can't be enforced, and you'd punish the innocent baby to never get their temple work done in lthe future, how is that fulfilling the mission of the church and what we've been charged to do? It's not, you and others need to start thinking with the spirit of charity, rather than bitterness and selfishness. Pray for charity, that's a reason moroni implored us to. We'll need it.

jmack
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Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

Aprhys wrote: December 11th, 2019, 4:09 pm
drtanner wrote: December 10th, 2019, 3:33 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: December 10th, 2019, 3:19 pm The news article says that Family Search is the final major genealogy site to document homosexual marriages. Therefore, it seems there are numerous other sites that homosexuals and their families have been using for this documentation. Since the LDS site is used to facilitate temple ordinances, and a homosexual marriage cannot be sealed, nor have children sealed to them, it would have been a noble thing to hold the line by not adding sodomite marriages to the database. They just needed to do what ever had been done in the recent past. The only real benefit is that we are now more like Babylon, and the Gay Agenda in the Church is celebrating a victory.
Or actually trust in what the church’s statement is instead of putting words in their mouth and spreading a false narrative

“FamilySearch seeks to digitally preserve and provide access to genealogical and historical records, and this is part of its efforts to accurately document the human family. The church solemnizes or seals marriages only between people of the opposite sex,”

The church will never perform same sex marriages. How many times are we going to go down this road?
Oh Dr.Tanner my $1000 bet that the church will indeed perform sodomite sealings in the temple still stands. To make it even more interesting I will change the timeline from 20 years to 10 years.
I just hope you aren't betting your eternal soul on this. It is a foolish notion and a foolhardy bet iyam, if you truly understand the gospel of our Lord and the workings of his church you wouldn't make that bet.

jmack
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Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

jmack wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 8:24 am
Aprhys wrote: December 11th, 2019, 4:09 pm
drtanner wrote: December 10th, 2019, 3:33 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: December 10th, 2019, 3:19 pm The news article says that Family Search is the final major genealogy site to document homosexual marriages. Therefore, it seems there are numerous other sites that homosexuals and their families have been using for this documentation. Since the LDS site is used to facilitate temple ordinances, and a homosexual marriage cannot be sealed, nor have children sealed to them, it would have been a noble thing to hold the line by not adding sodomite marriages to the database. They just needed to do what ever had been done in the recent past. The only real benefit is that we are now more like Babylon, and the Gay Agenda in the Church is celebrating a victory.
Or actually trust in what the church’s statement is instead of putting words in their mouth and spreading a false narrative

“FamilySearch seeks to digitally preserve and provide access to genealogical and historical records, and this is part of its efforts to accurately document the human family. The church solemnizes or seals marriages only between people of the opposite sex,”

The church will never perform same sex marriages. How many times are we going to go down this road?
Oh Dr.Tanner my $1000 bet that the church will indeed perform sodomite sealings in the temple still stands. To make it even more interesting I will change the timeline from 20 years to 10 years.
I just hope you aren't betting your eternal soul on this. It is a foolish notion and a foolhardy bet iyam, if you truly understand the gospel of our Lord and the workings of his church you wouldn't make that bet.
And just to clarify, the church will not knowingly do this. But could a mistake in 20 years happen? With the mistakes made now, sure cause mistakes happen at times, we're human and not perfect beings. But it wouldn't be valid so no harm no foul. Sealings are a religious rite that don't have a government counterpart, so they have little control to force. Good thing the church is saving their money because we may need it protect us against a corrupt government.

jmack
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

Ferrisbueller wrote: December 13th, 2019, 10:54 am What kind of hog wash is this? Family Search was already a 2 star app and site. This news almost wants me to delete it from my phone now. Too many gays related to the apostles these days. Why are gays the focus of policy these days? Is there not better things to put our focus on??
That pesky little thing called agency means even apostles will have relatives who make other choices. Do you blame god for siring a son like lucifer? It's not the church’s fault that genealogical records, to be accurate, must acknowledge these unions. Genealogical records also record births out of wedlock, and where no father is known. We don't wring our hands and blame society, we just handle it as best we can to keep records accurate. Keep your heads people! The church isn't corrupt because they are being accurate and not trying to hide history by ignoring it!

jmack
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

Ferrisbueller wrote: December 14th, 2019, 3:37 pm
jmack wrote: December 14th, 2019, 9:41 am
mes5464 wrote: December 11th, 2019, 7:55 am Same sex couples can't have children! Only a heterosexual couple can conceive a child. That man and woman are the parents, not the same sex couple.
Do we not record legal adoptions? Can a same sex couple adopt children? Can't a same sex marriage between two women end up with a biological child by one of the spouses? Don't these children deserve to be recorded and documented for history? Or are they just to be pointedly ignored in the record keeping business the church is involved in?? Thank god the church isn't as foolish and rejecting as some of its members and luckily they take the responsibility of recording the births, deaths, etc of as many of God's children as they can as the sacred charge it is.
Then they need to be required to be linked to their biological mother AND father. They should not recognize who their adoptive gay parents are. A gay spouse should be denied entry on family search.
Fyi, I have records of ancestors from hundreds of yeats ago where the birth is illegitimate and no father is listed but thank goodness the recorders (priests) weren't punitive jerks who would refuse to christen the child because they didn't agree with how the child came into the world. And when we do the temple work, the child is sealed to their mother (her name) and to his/her father ( no name), but the records in heaven know the father, we don't do this work alone, so their records are fully accirate and filled in. This is the lord's work, we do our part and thats all that's required . The genealogical record is not the temple work tecord, the genealogical record helps all people, non members too, and it facilitates temple work, but doesn't override it.

jmack
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 9:48 am Speaking as a clerk here there are all sorts of situations where we record only the birth mother and not the father, most often when the father is not known to the mother, that happens more often that you might think for example when the birth is the result of a sperm donation and the birth certificates mark the father as "unknown" if the woman is single. It can also happen in situations where the woman has had multiple sex partners.

So it isn't always the case that we know or can know who the XY partner is. Sperm donation would, I assume be a common method of same sex female couples employ to have children and in such cases the male would never be known.
We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I don't know why. Do you believe it would be a sin for a married couple where the husband is infertile to use donated sperm and the mother's egg? What is the sin if the child will have a mother and father? It's similar to adoption that the father isn't the biological father, but is still the father in the way that matters. Medical advancement isn't the problem, it's poor choices that deny a child a father or mother in life, but let god be the judge as he knows all.

jmack
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1586

Re: Families can now document same-sex relationships on FamilySearch

Post by jmack »

gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm
EmmaLee wrote: December 15th, 2019, 2:45 pm
gkearney wrote: December 15th, 2019, 11:25 am
mes5464 wrote: December 15th, 2019, 10:14 am

We may not know who the father is but HF does know. Both the mother and the father have a responsibility to all of the children they bring into the world and they will be held accountable. It's true that we mortals screw up what is at its core a very basic process, but God will hold us all accountable for our successes and failures with respect to what we do or don't do for the children we bring into the world.

I have come to conclude that sperm donation is a sin.
I have not a clue if sperm donation is a sin or not and as far as I am aware there is no statement from the church on the matter of it being a sin. (Someone can correct me here if such is not the case.)
Church Handbook of Instruction says this on sperm donation, and other related topics -

21.4.13

Sperm Donation
The Church strongly discourages the donation of sperm.

21.4.3

Artificial Insemination
The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.7

In Vitro Fertilization
The Church strongly discourages in vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the wife. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood
The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.

21.4.10

Same-Gender Marriages
As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman.

"Strongly discourages" does not equal "it's a sin".
They don't call it sin, because wisely, they leave it up to god to judge. As I said, some couples, one person is infertile and can't produce sperm or egg and require a donor. Maybe they should just adopt, but thats for yhem decide and take responsibility for their choice. The church is being intelligent and protecting agency and letting god be the judge. Some here could take a page from their book, iyam.

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