Should Porn be Banned

[David13]

heres an interesting video of an ex porn star who discusses how she got involved in the industry, what led her up to it and her experience getting out.

And here's one for a completely different perspective.

adult-film-star-opens-up-about-leaving-mormon-church-for-porn

https://nypost.com/2019/10/22/adult-fil ... -for-porn/

Ah, there's always two sides to any coin.

And I'm glad to see you got a better avatar, tho' I say it appears possibly to be more karaoke than rockin roll. Just my side of the coin.
dc

[David13]

The fact that it's illegal has driven it underground and it's despicable. You're correct my logic fails but I don't have an answer for child porn other than the current strategy. A child cannot legally consent and therefore requires protection by society.

Given that so many women in porn are not consenting (there are sex slaves on the major porn sites) and we haven’t got a reliable means of distinguishing who is and is not consenting, as well as those that are “consenting” were almost certainly molested as children the ability to consent is in question, should we not seek to ban this for adults as well?

It might go underground but that will for a fact mean that there is less of it. Which means that more people will be free.

We can say that people are free to drink motor oil and that is technically true, but we would assume that a person acting in such an extreme way against their best interest must be mentally damaged and in need of help.

Women doing porn are acting out trauma. They are damaged women that need help. They are prostitutes.

Ah, social justice warrior. "We have to go down and rescue them, whether they want to be rescued or not".

There's only one side to a coin? Your side?
dc

I think the government does way too much already, with regard to everything not just ...

[ori]

All porn should be banned just like prostitution. Do not see a difference between the two. And it should be at least banned in every Christ believing home and establishment.

Yes, porn *is* prostitution, (people being paid to have sex). As someone else stated, the presence of a camera in the room to record the act somehow magically makes it ok? It makes no sense whatsoever. None. At. All.

There is so much evil in the world.

[ori]

Telling someone to move to another country is unconstitutional and a good way to make you look very indifferent to other peoples values and customs.

No. Telling someone to move to another country is Free Speech. I can tell you to move all I want, but you can simply refuse.

But the government forcing citizens out of the country based on their religion would be something unconstitutional. I'm sure that's what you meant, but it's certainly not what you said. EmmaLee is welcome to tell you to move all she wants.

[David13]

All porn should be banned just like prostitution. Do not see a difference between the two. And it should be at least banned in every Christ believing home and establishment.

Yes, porn *is* prostitution, (people being paid to have sex). As someone else stated, the presence of a camera in the room to record the act somehow magically makes it ok? It makes no sense whatsoever. None. At. All.

There is so much evil in the world.

There is your solution. Just pass a law against evil. Poof! Solution.

How will the government enforce that. (Rhetorical question. Not to be answered, but to be pondered.)
dc

[ajax]

Vices vs crimes

Banning vices typically does more harm than good resulting in worse outcomes in the underground. It also creates the elite enforcer class, which always abuses power.

btw, we all "pay" for sex, most of us just not with cash.

[ori]

All porn should be banned just like prostitution. Do not see a difference between the two. And it should be at least banned in every Christ believing home and establishment.

Yes, porn *is* prostitution, (people being paid to have sex). As someone else stated, the presence of a camera in the room to record the act somehow magically makes it ok? It makes no sense whatsoever. None. At. All.

There is so much evil in the world.

There is your solution. Just pass a law against evil. Poof! Solution.

How will the government enforce that. (Rhetorical question. Not to be answered, but to be pondered.)
dc

I've pondered it a lot. I do not have the answers, (I've stated this elsewhere.) In some hypothetical universe, if I was king of the U.S. or the world, I would make porn illegal (but going much tougher on producers, than on the performers) and see how it goes for a few years. I'm open to making things legal if it makes things better, or illegal if that makes things better instead. Let's think of it as an "empirical approach". As opposed to logical.

For example, I'm of the opinion that we should reduce punishment of, or decriminalize entirely, nonviolent drug possession offenses. Clearly drug use is wrong, but the harm done by the U.S. "war on drugs" is too much. I say let's decriminalize for awhile and see how it goes. If it makes things even worse, then we can go back to criminalization of drugs. But I do think some other countries have had success in viewing drug addicts as people needing help, rather than criminals. I think we should do that for porn performers, while punishing porn producers quite harshly.

But, while I do speak of criminalizing porn, I do not think I am disrespecting free speech. Free speech (in my opinion) is not about debauchery and obscenity, it is about ideas. If one wants to spread ideas about sex acts, they are free to do so via books and written word -- but not fiction, mind you--, but spreading pictures and videos of sex acts is not the spread of ideas. Spreading pornographic fictional content is not the spread of ideas. It's just fiction. (Understand I'm not talking about what the courts have defined Free Speech to be. I'm just referring to my personal opinion as to how I'd implement Free Speech protections if I were king.)

The most cherished forms of Free Speech are to spread ideas about the meaning of life, religion, politics, and criticism... and parody. Being able to criticize the government is a very, VERY important freedom. I'm sorry, but spreading fictional porn, or images & videos & drawings of sex acts in the form of fiction (anime, anyone?) should not, under any circumstances, be protected speech. (I would make exceptions for grey areas, such as still drawings of sex acts for educational purposes, while at the same time disagreeing with the necessity of said drawings.) I.e. As king, I would still allow speech I don't like. Just nothing so Satanic as what is understood to be your common porn material.

[Thinker]

Banning all porn would involve banning a lot of media (movies, tv, commercials, magazines, romance novels), and museums and anatomy pictures and books that display nudity.

Countries where nudity isn’t a big deal (like where they have nudists parks/beaches) tend to have much lower rates of porn addiction. Utah - who has waged war against porn - has among the highest rates of porn addiction. Why? What’s the lesson here?

[abijah`]

And here's one for a completely different perspective.

adult-film-star-opens-up-about-leaving-mormon-church-for-porn

https://nypost.com/2019/10/22/adult-fil ... -for-porn/

sad

[Luke]

Porn isn’t a human right. Ban it, and arrest all those who produce it.

[EmmaLee]

Rights come from God, not the state/government - therefore, the state/government cannot take rights away. They sure do try though.

That is still up for debate. Proof of god still doesn't exist. Acting on the unknown where there is no intellectual boundaries is a never ending subjective open ended debate and not closed ended. But religious people have moved on as if it's fact. You can have religious views but once you start imposing those values through government channels such as this very debate (should porn be made illegal) you are in Violation of Separation of Church and State.

"Proof" of God will never exist - until it's too late for you to accept it. Believe as you wish, as will I. The United States was based on God's Law and the Judaeo/Christian scriptures, beliefs - those who don't like that fact, should maybe move to another country instead of trying to change this one into their godless, Satanic-inspired versions. The Founding documents are clear, as are our scriptures. If you don't believe in any of those, I don't understand why you are on this LDS forum, other than to cause contention and try to stir up trouble - not something any of us need.

("Proof" of God will never exist - until it's too late for you to accept it) Sorry I can't move forward with non fact with a mentality of better safe than sorry. So if the United States was founded by people of different Christian Religions, then why did they put in a clause of Separation of Church and State, but for that they saw the necessity of preventing a country from becoming a Theocracy? Isn't the clause Freedom of Religion make it a nation for any religion, not just a Christian nation because it was the majority at the time? Telling someone to move to another country is unconstitutional and a good way to make you look very indifferent to other peoples values and customs. To say non Christians hold the same values as what you call "satanic" is a really big insult to all the people who are not religious who are upstanding citizens. (If you don't believe in any of those, I don't understand why you are on this LDS forum, other than to cause contention and try to stir up trouble), so I'm not here for debate? (not something any of us need), that's your projection that everyone is as like minded as you.

Not really worth responding to, but for the sake of educating someone else who might be reading this thread - https://erlc.com/resource-library/artic ... ually-mean

https://constitutionus.com/

[Silas]

The fact that it's illegal has driven it underground and it's despicable. You're correct my logic fails but I don't have an answer for child porn other than the current strategy. A child cannot legally consent and therefore requires protection by society.

Given that so many women in porn are not consenting (there are sex slaves on the major porn sites) and we haven’t got a reliable means of distinguishing who is and is not consenting, as well as those that are “consenting” were almost certainly molested as children the ability to consent is in question, should we not seek to ban this for adults as well?

It might go underground but that will for a fact mean that there is less of it. Which means that more people will be free.

We can say that people are free to drink motor oil and that is technically true, but we would assume that a person acting in such an extreme way against their best interest must be mentally damaged and in need of help.

Women doing porn are acting out trauma. They are damaged women that need help. They are prostitutes.

Ah, social justice warrior. "We have to go down and rescue them, whether they want to be rescued or not".

There's only one side to a coin? Your side?
dc

I think the government does way too much already, with regard to everything not just ...

So I said that we should not allow sex slaves and victims of child sex abuse to be exploited for money and your first response is to call me a social justice warrior?

Do you support sex slavery and exploiting child sex abuse victims? Does using force to shut that down violate your libertarian purity?

[Allison]

On page one a very practical approach was suggested, while also acknowledging how thorny it can be to draw lines, but I think it is a great starting point:

At the very least porn should be relegated to a .xxx tld ghetto. Making it trivial to filter. Any other tld depicting sex acts should be siezed after transition. The problem is nudity. Is a picture of Venus de Milo, Virtruvian Man, or educational pictures on Wikipedia porn.
Bring back the Hays codes for TV and movies.

What do y’all think?

[Allison]

Just one of several reasons why porn is not a victimless crime and harms children:

[ori]

Banning all porn would involve banning a lot of media (movies, tv, commercials, magazines, romance novels), and museums and anatomy pictures and books that display nudity.

Countries where nudity isn’t a big deal (like where they have nudists parks/beaches) tend to have much lower rates of porn addiction. Utah - who has waged war against porn - has among the highest rates of porn addiction. Why? What’s the lesson here?

"...it is not clear that Utah has abnormally high rates of pornography consumption, and some strong evidence that Latter-day Saints may skew pornography consumption downward"
from:
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Ques ... ainment%3F

[Silas]

Banning all porn would involve banning a lot of media (movies, tv, commercials, magazines, romance novels), and museums and anatomy pictures and books that display nudity.

Countries where nudity isn’t a big deal (like where they have nudists parks/beaches) tend to have much lower rates of porn addiction. Utah - who has waged war against porn - has among the highest rates of porn addiction. Why? What’s the lesson here?

"...it is not clear that Utah has abnormally high rates of pornography consumption, and some strong evidence that Latter-day Saints may skew pornography consumption downward"
from:
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Ques ... ainment%3F

Thank you Ori. The idea that Utah is full of massive numbers of porn consumers is a myth. It is a problem for sure. But being sexually conservative does not fuel porn use. That is an old idea that deserves to die.

[Allison]

Just one of several reasons why porn is not a victimless crime and harms children:

Here’s a follow up, just to give a taste of the life of a sex worker (hint: self-destructive, not fun)—

[Doxxen]

Telling someone to move to another country is unconstitutional and a good way to make you look very indifferent to other peoples values and customs.

No. Telling someone to move to another country is Free Speech. I can tell you to move all I want, but you can simply refuse.

But the government forcing citizens out of the country based on their religion would be something unconstitutional. I'm sure that's what you meant, but it's certainly not what you said. EmmaLee is welcome to tell you to move all she wants.

Isn't telling someone to leave the country the first step in removing someone from a country? People with that mentality end up working in businesses and government positions which their values are imposed through their actions, example the Kim Davis incident? All speech including hate speech is legal and it should be noted that telling one cultural group by another cultural group if they want their customs to leave the country is discrimination against that group of people and discrimination against a group of people is unconstitutional. Yes you are correct that she is a citizen saying it and not the government forcing it, but isn't that what this whole forum is about is that you want porn banned so in order to practice porn you would have to do it underground or leave the country? Porn is just as cultural as your culture is such as No Coffee, No Cussing and other Mormon believes. The big difference is were not making you participate in porn, you can simple not engage in it, but stopping other people from engaging in it would be imposing your values on other people. It's also not about being unconstitutional, it's very obvious, no one is telling Mormons they HAVE to drink coffee or HAVE to cuss, telling someone that if they want their values to leave the country makes you look like your cultural values trump all other cultural values and that's not OK.

[Doxxen]

That is still up for debate. Proof of god still doesn't exist. Acting on the unknown where there is no intellectual boundaries is a never ending subjective open ended debate and not closed ended. But religious people have moved on as if it's fact. You can have religious views but once you start imposing those values through government channels such as this very debate (should porn be made illegal) you are in Violation of Separation of Church and State.

"Proof" of God will never exist - until it's too late for you to accept it. Believe as you wish, as will I. The United States was based on God's Law and the Judaeo/Christian scriptures, beliefs - those who don't like that fact, should maybe move to another country instead of trying to change this one into their godless, Satanic-inspired versions. The Founding documents are clear, as are our scriptures. If you don't believe in any of those, I don't understand why you are on this LDS forum, other than to cause contention and try to stir up trouble - not something any of us need.

("Proof" of God will never exist - until it's too late for you to accept it) Sorry I can't move forward with non fact with a mentality of better safe than sorry. So if the United States was founded by people of different Christian Religions, then why did they put in a clause of Separation of Church and State, but for that they saw the necessity of preventing a country from becoming a Theocracy? Isn't the clause Freedom of Religion make it a nation for any religion, not just a Christian nation because it was the majority at the time? Telling someone to move to another country is unconstitutional and a good way to make you look very indifferent to other peoples values and customs. To say non Christians hold the same values as what you call "satanic" is a really big insult to all the people who are not religious who are upstanding citizens. (If you don't believe in any of those, I don't understand why you are on this LDS forum, other than to cause contention and try to stir up trouble), so I'm not here for debate? (not something any of us need), that's your projection that everyone is as like minded as you.

Not really worth responding to, but for the sake of educating someone else who might be reading this thread - https://erlc.com/resource-library/artic ... ually-mean

https://constitutionus.com/

Yes morals come from where you say you get your morals from, such as your religion, but there is a word/word going on about the word morals. It's your opinion on what constitutes morals versus a commonly held belief among all religions and creeds, such as drinking and driving, and if your against that it would be an uphill battle because of the quotable rights such as the right not to get into an unnecessary car crash and incur medical bills because it is a verified scientific fact that drinking and driving causes impairment regardless of religion or culture. I think I'm getting the gist of this whole forum, people think that people wanting porn is their morals and values that they are imposing on the public, but you guys are not quoting verified statistics that at it's source that 2 people consenting to sex on tape for production causes harm to people's rights like drinking and driving. I guess to simplify it and everyone should try and answer this question "What are the rights that religious people are claiming are infringed upon when having porn legal". Something like right not to see it like seeing someone nude at the beach? I'm really curious if you all made it to the supreme court what would you tell the judges the reasoning why to make it illegal based upon it violating constitutional rights of another party. What constitutional, state or local rights are being infringed upon when having porn legal? In regards to your article it does state that other religions had to abide by law's that they disagreed with doesn't really help your argument because the Separation of Church and State would have prevented those minority religions from having those values imposed on it. I guess an example would be if Mormon's got their way would Caffeine be illegal?

[Doxxen]

It also should be noted that everyone who is in favor of porn IS NOT IN FAVOR OF sex trafficking, exploitation, shady business practices, child porn and other not mentioned illegal acts, only criminals are in favor of those acts. It's never equatable because people who want porn are defiantly not in favor for those acts. I really don't think the argument that porn leads to these acts is valid, no it's certain criminal people that it doesn't matter what law they will break it such as stealing, drug use and fraud. The industry having problems of sex trafficking is perpetuated by a criminal person or persons in general, I just don't see the correlation versus causation that being in favor for porn creates sex traffickers, exploiters, rapers, and child porn's, criminals create that. So for all the porn I've looked at I never once endorsed those activities and if I found out would defiantly record the incident and hand over my evidence to the police. 2 people can consent to sex is legal, filming it is also legal, selling it to your friends like movies at the movie theater is legal. So far all the acts involved are legal and if you made it illegal it would be Unequal Application of the Law because the law would make one act illegal and not another when they are indistinguishable at it's core context.

[David13]

The fact that it's illegal has driven it underground and it's despicable. You're correct my logic fails but I don't have an answer for child porn other than the current strategy. A child cannot legally consent and therefore requires protection by society.

Given that so many women in porn are not consenting (there are sex slaves on the major porn sites) and we haven’t got a reliable means of distinguishing who is and is not consenting, as well as those that are “consenting” were almost certainly molested as children the ability to consent is in question, should we not seek to ban this for adults as well?

It might go underground but that will for a fact mean that there is less of it. Which means that more people will be free.

We can say that people are free to drink motor oil and that is technically true, but we would assume that a person acting in such an extreme way against their best interest must be mentally damaged and in need of help.

Women doing porn are acting out trauma. They are damaged women that need help. They are prostitutes.

Ah, social justice warrior. "We have to go down and rescue them, whether they want to be rescued or not".

There's only one side to a coin? Your side?
dc

I think the government does way too much already, with regard to everything not just ...

So I said that we should not allow sex slaves and victims of child sex abuse to be exploited for money and your first response is to call me a social justice warrior?

Do you support sex slavery and exploiting child sex abuse victims? Does using force to shut that down violate your libertarian purity?

Rather wicked perversion of what I posted.
dc

[Thinker]

“WHICH STATE CONSUMES THE MOST ONLINE PORN?

UTAH, that’s which state! Or so says Harvard researcher Ben Edelman, who “analyzed subscriber data from an unnamed ‘top 10 seller of online adult entertainment.'” When comparing broadband subscribers, Utah comes in first with an average of 5.47 per 1000. In second place is Alaska with just over 5.03 per 1000, and coming in third is Mississippi.”

[Silas]

“WHICH STATE CONSUMES THE MOST ONLINE PORN?

UTAH, that’s which state! Or so says Harvard researcher Ben Edelman, who “analyzed subscriber data from an unnamed ‘top 10 seller of online adult entertainment.'” When comparing broadband subscribers, Utah comes in first with an average of 5.47 per 1000. In second place is Alaska with just over 5.03 per 1000, and coming in third is Mississippi.”

Most porn users do not pay for their pornography so there is an inherent problem with using the top seller as the metric for determining who uses the most porn.

[Thinker]

“WHICH STATE CONSUMES THE MOST ONLINE PORN?

UTAH, that’s which state! Or so says Harvard researcher Ben Edelman, who “analyzed subscriber data from an unnamed ‘top 10 seller of online adult entertainment.'” When comparing broadband subscribers, Utah comes in first with an average of 5.47 per 1000. In second place is Alaska with just over 5.03 per 1000, and coming in third is Mississippi.”

Most porn users do not pay for their pornography so there is an inherent problem with using the top seller as the metric for determining who uses the most porn.

Then how would you know that most porn users don’t pay - if you cannot track it?
Many websites track users. As mentioned in that finding, they tracked broadband subscribers and Utah had the most.

[gigarath24]

Porn is going to be banned here in the not too distant future.

Its quite possible. But that is a two edged sword.

Nothing below a Terrestrial law will persist into the millennium. Taking a stroll down the Las Vegas strip, it's not hard to imagine why the world must needs be cleansed by fire.

Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras makes Las Vegas look positively chaste in comparision.