Swedenborg 101: The Basic Nature of Everything

[Dusty Wanderer]

Seems odd that Pratt would call Swedenborg a deceiver. Based on what I've read, Swedenborg's writings compliment Joseph Smith's Mormonism.

I thought so, too. Figured it was a little hyperbole to stress how Joseph's book "came from the ground", rather than his head. Fine line there, though, if you ask me.

From what I've read of Swedenborg so far, I see it as another witness in many ways. Especially with the similarities between Swedenborg's and Joseph's Moroni experiences.

[Cruiserdude]

This seems to be a decent look at Swedenborg from a perspective like most of us share or understand...

https://craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm

[creator]

Simplified history of how our connection to Heaven has changed over time..

[creator]

This is a very interesting one. Discussing how fractals (you could even say archetypes and patterns) relate to Heaven.

[Cruiserdude]

This is a very interesting one. Discussing how fractals (you could even say archetypes and patterns) relate to Heaven.

Excited for this! Just started it

[Thinker]

This is a very interesting one. Discussing how fractals (you could even say archetypes and patterns) relate to Heaven.

So cool!
It makes sense that angels in the Bible (ie Gabriel & Michael) are not just individuals but representative of a community of angels with a particular purpose. I imagine there are MANY more such angels that most are unaware of (lost truths). In the video he explained how many different types of jobs there are & yet there are even more in the spirit realm.

A bit mind boggling to think of abstract fractals… but “the kingdom of God is within each of us.”

The lady talked about how in such communities of kindred spirits, perspectives can be shared so basically the sum is greater than the parts. She kind of answered a question I had wondering if going through difficult things is worth it - if “all we need is love.”

[Original_Intent]

This is a very interesting one. Discussing how fractals (you could even say archetypes and patterns) relate to Heaven.

When he talks about a community appearing as a single angel, that is pure "Law of One" stuff.

[ransomme]

This is a very interesting one. Discussing how fractals (you could even say archetypes and patterns) relate to Heaven.

So cool!
It makes sense that angels in the Bible (ie Gabriel & Michael) are not just individuals but representative of a community of angels with a particular purpose. I imagine there are MANY more such angels that most are unaware of (lost truths). In the video he explained how many different types of jobs there are & yet there are even more in the spirit realm.

A bit mind boggling to think of abstract fractals… but “the kingdom of God is within each of us.”

The lady talked about how in such communities of kindred spirits, perspectives can be shared so basically the sum is greater than the parts. She kind of answered a question I had wondering if going through difficult things is worth it - if “all we need is love.”

Don't tell that to Brighamites. Their heads may explode.

But yeah makes sense. In a moment of clarity when I was taught in the Spirit, I understood that love is the only quality that truly brings about increase and progression. It's the only perfect quality that can be used as a basis to magnify and by doing so raise the tide of all boats.

[TheDuke]

But yeah makes sense. In a moment of clarity when I was taught in the Spirit, I understood that love is the only quality that truly brings about increase and progression. It's the only perfect quality that can be used as a basis to magnify and by doing so raise the tide of all boats.

I guess that is why he said to know god is eternal life"? he misspoke, he meant love, not know? Sorry, there is more than one godly attribute required to progress.

And, fractals are just a mathematical formula with focused/shaped random numbers for attributes. We built fractal software in early college CS to show how to zoom in and out with continuity of perspective.

[ransomme]

But yeah makes sense. In a moment of clarity when I was taught in the Spirit, I understood that love is the only quality that truly brings about increase and progression. It's the only perfect quality that can be used as a basis to magnify and by doing so raise the tide of all boats.

I guess that is why he said to know god is eternal life"? he misspoke, he meant love, not know? Sorry, there is more than one godly attribute required to progress.

And, fractals are just a mathematical formula with focused/shaped random numbers for attributes. We built fractal software in early college CS to show how to zoom in and out with continuity of perspective.

Of course there are many. But the foundation for eternal progression is love.

John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 Corinthians 13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Moroni 7
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—

[TheDuke]

But yeah makes sense. In a moment of clarity when I was taught in the Spirit, I understood that love is the only quality that truly brings about increase and progression. It's the only perfect quality that can be used as a basis to magnify and by doing so raise the tide of all boats.

I guess that is why he said to know god is eternal life"? he misspoke, he meant love, not know? Sorry, there is more than one godly attribute required to progress.

And, fractals are just a mathematical formula with focused/shaped random numbers for attributes. We built fractal software in early college CS to show how to zoom in and out with continuity of perspective.

Of course there are many. But the foundation for eternal progression is love.

John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 Corinthians 13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Moroni 7
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—

I just don't agree with such a simple concept. Love surely is key to certain aspects. but eternal progression encompasses a long range of progressions, from SoP to top of exaltation. It seems the higher you go the more love is key, especially in this life. But for eternal progression it seems to include knowledge, faith, etc... But then it depends on what you mean by "love", there is after all the "love of money". Love can mean any emotion in the right context, I guess, in that case I also agree.

BTW it says we know good and evil, not just good.

[ransomme]

I guess that is why he said to know god is eternal life"? he misspoke, he meant love, not know? Sorry, there is more than one godly attribute required to progress.

And, fractals are just a mathematical formula with focused/shaped random numbers for attributes. We built fractal software in early college CS to show how to zoom in and out with continuity of perspective.

Of course there are many. But the foundation for eternal progression is love.

John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 Corinthians 13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Moroni 7
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—

I just don't agree with such a simple concept. Love surely is key to certain aspects. but eternal progression encompasses a long range of progressions, from SoP to top of exaltation. It seems the higher you go the more love is key, especially in this life. But for eternal progression it seems to include knowledge, faith, etc... But then it depends on what you mean by "love", there is after all the "love of money". Love can mean any emotion in the right context, I guess, in that case I also agree.

BTW it says we know good and evil, not just good.

Love, as in God is love, as in the two great commandments upon which all the other commandments hang, it's being one in Jesus the Messiah as He is one in the Father, it's Zion. It's not simple it's everything.

Look in to it more, there is much more there.

[TheDuke]

Of course there are many. But the foundation for eternal progression is love.

John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 Corinthians 13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Moroni 7
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—

I just don't agree with such a simple concept. Love surely is key to certain aspects. but eternal progression encompasses a long range of progressions, from SoP to top of exaltation. It seems the higher you go the more love is key, especially in this life. But for eternal progression it seems to include knowledge, faith, etc... But then it depends on what you mean by "love", there is after all the "love of money". Love can mean any emotion in the right context, I guess, in that case I also agree.

BTW it says we know good and evil, not just good.

Love, as in God is love, as in the two great commandments upon which all the other commandments hang, it's being one in Jesus the Messiah as He is one in the Father, it's Zion. It's not simple it's everything.

Look in to it more, there is much more there.

I have and I do. Now, if you think life is to sit around loving man and saying you love god, I guess the issue comes back to what is "love".

Seems loving god, is said to be keeping his commandments, but most on this forum seem to think that is cultish and means blind faith, and only real keepers of this commandments do it out of fear. I'm sorry but if you think loving god is keeping his commandments yet he says in the highest levels we don't need commandments (not eternal laws) as we shouldn't be commanded in all things. Then we've walked a circle. And I will repeat the only way out of the circle is knowledge. Sure knowledge w/o love doesn't get you much, but so is the other way around.

[ransomme]

I just don't agree with such a simple concept. Love surely is key to certain aspects. but eternal progression encompasses a long range of progressions, from SoP to top of exaltation. It seems the higher you go the more love is key, especially in this life. But for eternal progression it seems to include knowledge, faith, etc... But then it depends on what you mean by "love", there is after all the "love of money". Love can mean any emotion in the right context, I guess, in that case I also agree.

BTW it says we know good and evil, not just good.

Love, as in God is love, as in the two great commandments upon which all the other commandments hang, it's being one in Jesus the Messiah as He is one in the Father, it's Zion. It's not simple it's everything.

Look in to it more, there is much more there.

I have and I do. Now, if you think life is to sit around loving man and saying you love god, I guess the issue comes back to what is "love".

Seems loving god, is said to be keeping his commandments, but most on this forum seem to think that is cultish and means blind faith, and only real keepers of this commandments do it out of fear. I'm sorry but if you think loving god is keeping his commandments yet he says in the highest levels we don't need commandments (not eternal laws) as we shouldn't be commanded in all things. Then we've walked a circle. And I will repeat the only way out of the circle is knowledge. Sure knowledge w/o love doesn't get you much, but so is the other way around.

It's a good thing that I am not thinking or saying any of those things.

Godly love is no ordinary kind of love. Since this is a Swedenborg thread and were are talking about fractals let's put it like this.

Fractals are correspondences. Things below resemble things above. As we move towards God it's like zooming out on a fractal pattern. So if we are looking at a fractal pattern of love, then Godly love is a higher form of love that includes all the lower forms as well which are smaller or lower forms love after the pattern of godly love. Are you with me?

So we can start here in mortality with a lower order of love and scale up as we zoom out and come closer to God. This isn't going to be perfect, it will be very basic and low-fi, but hopefully it conveys the idea.

Love of money
I love pizza
I love you
I love my spouse
Cleave unto a spouse and become one flesh
Oneness
Zion
God's work and glory
Etc.

[TheDuke]

Love, as in God is love, as in the two great commandments upon which all the other commandments hang, it's being one in Jesus the Messiah as He is one in the Father, it's Zion. It's not simple it's everything.

Look in to it more, there is much more there.

I have and I do. Now, if you think life is to sit around loving man and saying you love god, I guess the issue comes back to what is "love".

Seems loving god, is said to be keeping his commandments, but most on this forum seem to think that is cultish and means blind faith, and only real keepers of this commandments do it out of fear. I'm sorry but if you think loving god is keeping his commandments yet he says in the highest levels we don't need commandments (not eternal laws) as we shouldn't be commanded in all things. Then we've walked a circle. And I will repeat the only way out of the circle is knowledge. Sure knowledge w/o love doesn't get you much, but so is the other way around.

It's a good thing that I am not thinking or saying any of those things.

Godly love is no ordinary kind of love. Since this is a Swedenborg thread and were are talking about fractals let's put it like this.

Fractals are correspondences. Things below resemble things above. As we move towards God it's like zooming out on a fractal pattern. So if we are looking at a fractal pattern of love, then Godly love is a higher form of love that includes all the lower forms as well which are smaller or lower forms love after the pattern of godly love. Are you with me?

So we can start here in mortality with a lower order of love and scale up as we zoom out and come closer to God. This isn't going to be perfect, it will be very basic and low-fi, but hopefully it conveys the idea.

Love of money
I love pizza
I love you
I love my spouse
Cleave unto a spouse and become one flesh
Oneness
Zion
God's work and glory
Etc.

Ok, on the fractals, they are just mathematical similarities of random numbers. And are "false" to give impressions of reality. All your high res fake graphics are just fractals to look real. I laugh at the concept that fractals are anything but lies posing as reality. That is all they are! Anyone that says fractals can represent truth or knowledge, has no idea what a fractal is. Do some research. Like I said before, I programmed fractals in a graphics CS class in the late 1970's as they are used to zoom in and zoom out and make an "appearance" of reality from made up, inaccurate, computer generated but realistically looking data.

[ransomme]

I have and I do. Now, if you think life is to sit around loving man and saying you love god, I guess the issue comes back to what is "love".

Seems loving god, is said to be keeping his commandments, but most on this forum seem to think that is cultish and means blind faith, and only real keepers of this commandments do it out of fear. I'm sorry but if you think loving god is keeping his commandments yet he says in the highest levels we don't need commandments (not eternal laws) as we shouldn't be commanded in all things. Then we've walked a circle. And I will repeat the only way out of the circle is knowledge. Sure knowledge w/o love doesn't get you much, but so is the other way around.

It's a good thing that I am not thinking or saying any of those things.

Godly love is no ordinary kind of love. Since this is a Swedenborg thread and were are talking about fractals let's put it like this.

Fractals are correspondences. Things below resemble things above. As we move towards God it's like zooming out on a fractal pattern. So if we are looking at a fractal pattern of love, then Godly love is a higher form of love that includes all the lower forms as well which are smaller or lower forms love after the pattern of godly love. Are you with me?

So we can start here in mortality with a lower order of love and scale up as we zoom out and come closer to God. This isn't going to be perfect, it will be very basic and low-fi, but hopefully it conveys the idea.

Love of money
I love pizza
I love you
I love my spouse
Cleave unto a spouse and become one flesh
Oneness
Zion
God's work and glory
Etc.

Ok, on the fractals, they are just mathematical similarities of random numbers. And are "false" to give impressions of reality. All your high res fake graphics are just fractals to look real. I laugh at the concept that fractals are anything but lies posing as reality. That is all they are! Anyone that says fractals can represent truth or knowledge, has no idea what a fractal is. Do some research. Like I said before, I programmed fractals in a graphics CS class in the late 1970's as they are used to zoom in and zoom out and make an "appearance" of reality from made up, inaccurate, computer generated but realistically looking data.

I am only using the idea of fractals as an analogy. Which is why I chose to incorporate more familiar Gospel language like higher and lower orders, which is all that I am getting at here. Types and shadows.

[Cruiserdude]

It's a good thing that I am not thinking or saying any of those things.

Godly love is no ordinary kind of love. Since this is a Swedenborg thread and were are talking about fractals let's put it like this.

Fractals are correspondences. Things below resemble things above. As we move towards God it's like zooming out on a fractal pattern. So if we are looking at a fractal pattern of love, then Godly love is a higher form of love that includes all the lower forms as well which are smaller or lower forms love after the pattern of godly love. Are you with me?

So we can start here in mortality with a lower order of love and scale up as we zoom out and come closer to God. This isn't going to be perfect, it will be very basic and low-fi, but hopefully it conveys the idea.

Love of money
I love pizza
I love you
I love my spouse
Cleave unto a spouse and become one flesh
Oneness
Zion
God's work and glory
Etc.

Ok, on the fractals, they are just mathematical similarities of random numbers. And are "false" to give impressions of reality. All your high res fake graphics are just fractals to look real. I laugh at the concept that fractals are anything but lies posing as reality. That is all they are! Anyone that says fractals can represent truth or knowledge, has no idea what a fractal is. Do some research. Like I said before, I programmed fractals in a graphics CS class in the late 1970's as they are used to zoom in and zoom out and make an "appearance" of reality from made up, inaccurate, computer generated but realistically looking data.

I am only using the idea of fractals as an analogy. Which is why I chose to incorporate more familiar Gospel language like higher and lower orders, which is all that I am getting at here. Types and shadows.

Don't sweat it too much, most of us understood this whole fractal thing from the video and this discussion is an analogy, a pattern, a type and shadow, etc to help us see and understand correctly...

[Thinker]

The World of Spirits - Swedenborg
4:00 State 1: Welcome
6:00 “No one in Heaven or Hell is allowed to have a divided mind, to understand 1 thing & intend something else.” 27: In this life, we can be more divided. :40 Sorting process.
15: Initially, the spirit world is similar to ours - “The 1 life carries on into the other, & death is only a passage.”
18: Marriage afterlife is more about actual compatibility.
24: where focus goes your energy flows - think it & it’s there. Life review/“book of life.”
28: Wake up Call, Clutter cleared & expressing without filter - then pulled back to allow to see their evil - some embarrassed, some want to just keep it hidden but part of the cleansing process is to deal with that so it doesn’t kill them spiritually as it would eventually if not tended to.
34: Every “thing”/building etc is a reflection of sentient beings residing there. You look outwardly as you were inwardly.
41: State 3: Instruction & Preparation… each is free to not believe in God/Heaven, but to ascend to God/Heaven- belief is necessary. We’re taught based on what we’re ready to accept. People r allowed to try out what they imagine Heaven to be (partying/feasting/worshipping constantly etc) to realize that is not so great & then May b ready to experience real Heaven.
47: triforce: Love, Truth, Use - the foundation of all.
52: Need God for each of 12 steps up (AA?)
:54 “Heavenly love is loving what is good, honest & fair because it is good, honest & fair & doing it because of that love” - & this is loving God/others.
:57 Married spirits don’t have babies but do have offspring of love & truth.
:59 Can spirits b earth-bound? Hell is earth-bound - absorbed in carnal pursuits & resist being in light that exposes their hidden/manipulative parts.
1:02 What about people w both good & bad? There is a lot of gray area - but it can be somewhat binary when you think which side does 1 lean toward more throughout life?
1:11 We have guardian angels - 2 always - 1 with our emotions & 1 w our thoughts. We need to think for ourselves, have faith but only after reasoning for truth.
https://www.youtube.com/live/qoaPwhzDHWM?feature=share

[Cruiserdude]

The World of Spirits - Swedenborg
4:00 State 1: Welcome
6:00 “No one in Heaven or Hell is allowed to have a divided mind, to understand 1 thing & intend something else.” 27: In this life, we can be more divided. :40 Sorting process.
15: Initially, the spirit world is similar to ours - “The 1 life carries on into the other, & death is only a passage.”
18: Marriage afterlife is more about actual compatibility.
24: where focus goes your energy flows - think it & it’s there. Life review/“book of life.”
28: Wake up Call, Clutter cleared & expressing without filter - then pulled back to allow to see their evil - some embarrassed, some want to just keep it hidden but part of the cleansing process is to deal with that so it doesn’t kill them spiritually as it would eventually if not tended to.
34: Every “thing”/building etc is a reflection of sentient beings residing there. You look outwardly as you were inwardly.
41: State 3: Instruction & Preparation… each is free to not believe in God/Heaven, but to ascend to God/Heaven- belief is necessary. We’re taught based on what we’re ready to accept. People r allowed to try out what they imagine Heaven to be (partying/feasting/worshipping constantly etc) to realize that is not so great & then May b ready to experience real Heaven.
47: triforce: Love, Truth, Use - the foundation of all.
52: Need God for each of 12 steps up (AA?)
:54 “Heavenly love is loving what is good, honest & fair because it is good, honest & fair & doing it because of that love” - & this is loving God/others.
:57 Married spirits don’t have babies but do have offspring of love & truth.
:59 Can spirits b earth-bound? Hell is earth-bound - absorbed in carnal pursuits & resist being in light that exposes their hidden/manipulative parts.
1:02 What about people w both good & bad? There is a lot of gray area - but it can be somewhat binary when you think which side does 1 lean toward more throughout life?
1:11 We have guardian angels - 2 always - 1 with our emotions & 1 w our thoughts. We need to think for ourselves, have faith but only after reasoning for truth.
https://www.youtube.com/live/qoaPwhzDHWM?feature=share

Swedenborg's insights into the spirit world are incredible, aren't they?!
There are multiple witnesses of the reality of our spirit world. I'm grateful for all witnesses of truth.

[Thinker]

Swedenborg's insights into the spirit world are incredible, aren't they?!
There are multiple witnesses of the reality of our spirit world. I'm grateful for all witnesses of truth.

I am grateful too, & yes, his insights are incredible! They are really resonating lately in grieving the loss of a loved one.

In searching for a good Swedenborg quote/image for my Uncle )to introduce Swedenborg to him), I’ll share what I’ve found…

[Cruiserdude]

Swedenborg's insights into the spirit world are incredible, aren't they?!
There are multiple witnesses of the reality of our spirit world. I'm grateful for all witnesses of truth.

I am grateful too, & yes, his insights are incredible! They are really resonating lately in grieving the loss of a loved one.

In searching for a good Swedenborg quote/image for my Uncle )to introduce Swedenborg to him), I’ll share what I’ve found…

I hope things get better with your loss, Thinker. It's easy for me to say the following as I'm not going through it, BUT nevertheless, it is true:
It's only 'loss' if we view it in the short term perspective .
Our loved ones have moved on to the next stage and while I absolutely love this mortal probation and how much we rely on faith, I'm so grateful and excited for all that comes next too

Each of those quotes, especially that last one, resonates extremely true with my soul.

[Thinker]

I hope things get better with your loss, Thinker. It's easy for me to say the following as I'm not going through it, BUT nevertheless, it is true:
It's only 'loss' if we view it in the short term perspective .
Our loved ones have moved on to the next stage and while I absolutely love this mortal probation and how much we rely on faith, I'm so grateful and excited for all that comes next too

Each of those quotes, especially that last one, resonates extremely true with my soul.

Thank you, CruiserDude. You are definitely a compassionate soul who has uplifted many - on this forum.

Spoiler

The loss was especially hard because my dad was the only one in my family who I felt like really had my back. So as I watched him suffer & die around family who have all hurt me & most have betrayed me - I felt so much pain that my body shook. And I began going into a type of gesthemene experience that I didn’t want to go through but felt like it was needed… like a refiner’s fire - burnt like hell - but for good.

I had this spiritual experience with my dad in which I sensed him telling me that he would be my angel, &/or I have other angels helping me & that I was in the midst of profound spiritual growth. I also sensed he wants me to be happy. But it’s been hard & at times I felt jealous of him & his blissful state. Still, I know God has plans for me & I’m so blessed & grateful how things are working out - through the growing pains.

Thanks again for your sweet words that inspired me to open up to you.

[creator]

I like their short tidbits of wisdom based on Swedenborg's teachings. This one touches on the importance of freedom and agency..

"...something that is compelled is completely different than something that is done in freedom..."

[Ymarsakar]

I like their short tidbits of wisdom based on Swedenborg's teachings. This one touches on the importance of freedom and agency..

"...something that is compelled is completely different than something that is done in freedom..."

Well, their message is correct in that video. That is indeed the pov of the godhead.

There are lesser gods that sometimes disagree but they are a distinct minority and they aren't particularly powerful either.

[Thinker]

I like their short tidbits of wisdom based on Swedenborg's teachings. This one touches on the importance of freedom and agency..

"...something that is compelled is completely different than something that is done in freedom..."

[youtube]…

I wonder how much evil is based on trying to force, deception and shifting responsibility.

I have a question. Do you think spirits in hell (or various degrees of Heaven or hell) know where they are?