The First Vision - "Thus, the Mormon doctrine of an anthropomorphic God is again vindicated".
Posted: November 3rd, 2019, 4:37 pm
There would be others who would see the Father and the Son, in the latter days. Some even outside of the restoration, as devoted souls faithfully sought revelation from the Lord. one of the most amazing though was the eye witness account at the School of the Prophets in an upper room, at the Newel K.Witney Store in Kirtland. I and maybe some of you have been inside of that room, and it is not huge. Witnesses would have been close up and it would have been awesome. See The Many Visits of the Father and the Son in This Dispensationhttps://latterdaysaintmag.com/the-many- ... pensation/ and also his, our Heavenly Father visited the School of the Prophets, amazing confirmation of the First Vision. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50869
The earliest recitations of the First Vision come into clearer focus when one realizes Joseph is still determining exactly what elements of this most sacred event he is allowed or even willing to share with others. While Joseph certainly mentions deity the presence of other personages or "angels" indicates that potentially more is going on than is generally acknowledged.
In fact, Joseph Smith never referred to what we now call the "First Vision" by that name. Instead, he referred to it as the "first visitation of angels" or the "first communication" a critical point when considering a Divine Council motif.
The sequence of events appears to be that Joseph saw and spoke to God and Christ and then: "the [Lord] opened the heavens upon me". It seems after the initial introductions and instruction the vision became much more expansive and the "heavens were opened".
"and there were many things which transpired that cannot be written" - 1832
"I saw many angels in this vision" - 1835
"and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time" - 1839Early Hebrews and Christians believed that before one can see God they must penetrate the dense veil of light that surrounds him. This ancient belief, called the "Kabod" or "Glory of God" in Old Testament times stresses that God's physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and is thought to be a "visible manifestation" of the physical presence of God.
It is this light as described by Joseph and the method of its conveyance that lends authenticity to the account as it is unlikely that 14 year old Joseph would be able to richly and accurately describe the unfamiliar Kabod in such detail, (God descending in magnificent glory and light) if he was not eye-witness to an actual event - a dramatic event that was certainly beyond the power of human art to counterfeit in the early 19th century either mechanically or via mental ingenuity.
As the light rested upon Joseph he was then enveloped within (or allowed inside of) the Kabod and it was then and only then that he was able to see God, Christ and the full congregation of those assembled for the council - an important function or operational rubric of the Kabod that is likely to be known only via direct experience with it.
The Kabod is such that outside observers would only see a brilliant light but no personages or sources of that light. Being permitted inside the Kabod would be literally entering a different realm. Jaze Bosargehttps://firstvisioncouncil.com/
One of the most oft-criticized doctrines of Mormonism is the belief that God is a glorified celestial person; a fully material and anthropomorphic (human-like) being who occupies a specific physical location and experiences in some manner a passage of time. Mormons claim that this doctrine is in full agreement with Biblical belief and evidence continues to mount that supports this position.
One of the more obscure evidences establishing this belief is the Hebrew word kabod, a noun translated as “glory” in the Old Testament. The kabod is an ancient belief, which stresses that God’s physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and (at sundry times) a veil of cloud or smoke, and is thought to be a “visible manifestation” of the physical presence of God.1
also declares that no man can approach the kabod of God. It seems that men who are unprepared to see God will face danger or death if they stand in His presence. Such are the warnings given to Moses before Israel is presented to Him at Mount Sinai. God instructs that the people be warned not to rush forward into the cloud to gaze upon His majesty or they will perish (Exodus 19:21).
At an authorized time, and after intense preparation, Moses and seventy of the elders of Israel are allowed within the kabod and see God without perishing (Exodus 24:9-11). One may not simply request to be allowed to see within the kabod,but must merit the privilege. In Exodus 33 Moses is allowed to see God face to face, but Moses’s request to see God’s glory is later denied, with God only allowing Moses to see His back, but not His face (Exodus 33:11, 18-23).
A notable exception is the experience of the Brother of Jared. Christ, masked by a cloud, appeared to the Brother of Jared on several occasions (Ether 2:4, 14). When the brother of Jared asked the Lord to illuminate sixteen stones for his people, his faith caused the kabod to partially part, so that “the veil was taken off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord.” The kabod was then completely taken away, revealing the Lord as the pre-mortal Christ (Ether 3:1-17).
Passages from the Old and New Testament make it clear that God’s physical body is surrounded by a glorious kabod, and that no ordinary mortal man may approach nor see him because of the kabod’s intense nature. This is not, however, a complete prohibition against seeing the form of God or Christ for those who are chosen and prepared. Thus, the Mormon doctrine of an anthropomorphic God is again vindicated.https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publ ... -the-bible
The earliest recitations of the First Vision come into clearer focus when one realizes Joseph is still determining exactly what elements of this most sacred event he is allowed or even willing to share with others. While Joseph certainly mentions deity the presence of other personages or "angels" indicates that potentially more is going on than is generally acknowledged.
In fact, Joseph Smith never referred to what we now call the "First Vision" by that name. Instead, he referred to it as the "first visitation of angels" or the "first communication" a critical point when considering a Divine Council motif.
The sequence of events appears to be that Joseph saw and spoke to God and Christ and then: "the [Lord] opened the heavens upon me". It seems after the initial introductions and instruction the vision became much more expansive and the "heavens were opened".
"and there were many things which transpired that cannot be written" - 1832
"I saw many angels in this vision" - 1835
"and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time" - 1839Early Hebrews and Christians believed that before one can see God they must penetrate the dense veil of light that surrounds him. This ancient belief, called the "Kabod" or "Glory of God" in Old Testament times stresses that God's physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and is thought to be a "visible manifestation" of the physical presence of God.
It is this light as described by Joseph and the method of its conveyance that lends authenticity to the account as it is unlikely that 14 year old Joseph would be able to richly and accurately describe the unfamiliar Kabod in such detail, (God descending in magnificent glory and light) if he was not eye-witness to an actual event - a dramatic event that was certainly beyond the power of human art to counterfeit in the early 19th century either mechanically or via mental ingenuity.
As the light rested upon Joseph he was then enveloped within (or allowed inside of) the Kabod and it was then and only then that he was able to see God, Christ and the full congregation of those assembled for the council - an important function or operational rubric of the Kabod that is likely to be known only via direct experience with it.
The Kabod is such that outside observers would only see a brilliant light but no personages or sources of that light. Being permitted inside the Kabod would be literally entering a different realm. Jaze Bosargehttps://firstvisioncouncil.com/
One of the most oft-criticized doctrines of Mormonism is the belief that God is a glorified celestial person; a fully material and anthropomorphic (human-like) being who occupies a specific physical location and experiences in some manner a passage of time. Mormons claim that this doctrine is in full agreement with Biblical belief and evidence continues to mount that supports this position.
One of the more obscure evidences establishing this belief is the Hebrew word kabod, a noun translated as “glory” in the Old Testament. The kabod is an ancient belief, which stresses that God’s physical form is surrounded by a brilliant robe of light and (at sundry times) a veil of cloud or smoke, and is thought to be a “visible manifestation” of the physical presence of God.1
also declares that no man can approach the kabod of God. It seems that men who are unprepared to see God will face danger or death if they stand in His presence. Such are the warnings given to Moses before Israel is presented to Him at Mount Sinai. God instructs that the people be warned not to rush forward into the cloud to gaze upon His majesty or they will perish (Exodus 19:21).
At an authorized time, and after intense preparation, Moses and seventy of the elders of Israel are allowed within the kabod and see God without perishing (Exodus 24:9-11). One may not simply request to be allowed to see within the kabod,but must merit the privilege. In Exodus 33 Moses is allowed to see God face to face, but Moses’s request to see God’s glory is later denied, with God only allowing Moses to see His back, but not His face (Exodus 33:11, 18-23).
A notable exception is the experience of the Brother of Jared. Christ, masked by a cloud, appeared to the Brother of Jared on several occasions (Ether 2:4, 14). When the brother of Jared asked the Lord to illuminate sixteen stones for his people, his faith caused the kabod to partially part, so that “the veil was taken off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord.” The kabod was then completely taken away, revealing the Lord as the pre-mortal Christ (Ether 3:1-17).
Passages from the Old and New Testament make it clear that God’s physical body is surrounded by a glorious kabod, and that no ordinary mortal man may approach nor see him because of the kabod’s intense nature. This is not, however, a complete prohibition against seeing the form of God or Christ for those who are chosen and prepared. Thus, the Mormon doctrine of an anthropomorphic God is again vindicated.https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publ ... -the-bible