England

[Michael Sherwin]

In a primitive sense there are four great seas. They are the North Sea, English Channel, Celtic sea and Atlantic Ocean. Further up the Island is a narrow stretch of land above which in olden times lived the more wild Pics. There is a great river and anciently a large city. To the west live the darker skinned Welsh. During the time of the book of Mormon Roman Armies came from the east and left. Then later came back and stayed. There were temples, horses, wagons and iron working. There was even corn.

corn (n.1)
"grain," Old English corn "single seed of a cereal plant; seeds of cereal plants generally; plants which produce corn when growing in the field," from Proto-Germanic *kurnam "small seed" (source also of Old Frisian and Old Saxon korn "grain," Middle Dutch coren, German Korn, Old Norse korn, Gothic kaurn), from PIE root *gre-no- "grain."

The sense of the Old English word was "grain with the seed still in" (as in barleycorn) rather than a particular plant. Locally understood to denote the leading crop of a district. It has been restricted to the indigenous "maize" in America (c. 1600, originally Indian corn, but the adjective was dropped), usually "wheat" in England, "oats" in Scotland and Ireland, while Korn means "rye" in parts of Germany.

There are also legends of a great treasure being taken from England and hidden in the Northeast part of the US. Movies have been made about those legends.

Contrary to what some may think I do not have a big problem with the 1830 LDS Church. It is all the nonsense that came after 1830 that is not right with me. The Spirit testifies of that, to me. However the Spirit also testifies to me that there is a BOM land and that land is England.

[gkearney]

A whole new Book of Mormon geography! One that is tied into the fabled treasure of the Knights Templar no less.

[larsenb]

A whole new Book of Mormon geography! One that is tied into the fabled treasure of the Knights Templar no less.

Undoubtedly centered around Glastonbury.

[LDS Watchman]

The Book of Mormon took place in Andean Peru in South America.

[Robin Hood]

"And did those feet in ancient times walk upon England's mountains green
And was the Holy Lamb of God in England's pleasent pastures seen..."

I don't know about the Book of Mormon, but I do believe the British Isles have played a much more significant role in the affairs of God's people than we understand.
I'm currently reading a book which postulates that Mary the mother of Jesus was born and raised in England.

Additionally I remember reading an article a while ago which made a very good case for the Jaredites sailing to their promised land from England.
Interesting stuff.

[Dave62]

"And did those feet in ancient times walk upon England's mountains green
And was the Holy Lamb of God in England's pleasent pastures seen..."

I don't know about the Book of Mormon, but I do believe the British Isles have played a much more significant role in the affairs of God's people than we understand.
I'm currently reading a book which postulates that Mary the mother of Jesus was born and raised in England.

Additionally I remember reading an article a while ago which made a very good case for the Jaredites sailing to their promised land from England.
Interesting stuff.

In a nutshell, here is my theory. And I say at the outset that I have very little evidence to support it. Arthur was a Bishop in the Church of Jesus Christ in post Roman times. Beset with apostacy and isolated from any news from the headquarters of the church he sent his priests/knights on a quest for the Holy Grail (keys of the priesthood). They were surrounded by hostile pagans, the English (not much has changed, has it!) and had to keep their mission somewhat covert (think Moroni and the Lamanites killing any Christians they found) hence the quest for the "Holy Grail". Bishops had the keys to ordain deacons teachers and priests, but no office higher. Linguistic echoes remained in the later English church.

I suspect the apostacy happened later in the peripheries of the Roman Empire later then we might think. Consider the Pelagian heresy and it similarities to Mormon's epistles.

[justme]

The Book of Mormon took place in Andean Peru in South America.

Sarcastic mode on Careful Matthias, you are new around here but (besides this interesting tangential thread) you will be accused of blasphemy and heresy by the majority of this forum for even hinting that the Book of Mormon had anything to do with south of the Rio Grande. People around here (besides me) are very staunch supporters of what they call a heartland model that centers the Book of Mormon story in modern day america.

[LDS Watchman]

The Book of Mormon took place in Andean Peru in South America.

Sarcastic mode on Careful Matthias, you are new around here but (besides this interesting tangential thread) you will be accused of blasphemy and heresy by the majority of this forum for even hinting that the Book of Mormon had anything to do with south of the Rio Grande. People around here (besides me) are very staunch supporters of what they call a heartland model that centers the Book of Mormon story in modern day america.

Thanks for the warning

The Heartland theory can't possibly be correct. There is virtually no match in the American heartland to what Mormon describes in the Book of Mormon.

I'm fully prepared to tear the Heartland theory apart if I get accused of blasphemy.

[justme]

The Book of Mormon took place in Andean Peru in South America.

Sarcastic mode on Careful Matthias, you are new around here but (besides this interesting tangential thread) you will be accused of blasphemy and heresy by the majority of this forum for even hinting that the Book of Mormon had anything to do with south of the Rio Grande. People around here (besides me) are very staunch supporters of what they call a heartland model that centers the Book of Mormon story in modern day america.

Thanks for the warning

The Heartland theory can't possibly be correct. There is virtually no match in the American heartland to what Mormon describes in the Book of Mormon.

I'm fully prepared to tear the Heartland theory apart if I get accused of blasphemy.

I'll grab my popcorn.
I happen to not be a Heartlander. Peru is beautiful. It would be interesting to hear your case.

[Robin Hood]

"And did those feet in ancient times walk upon England's mountains green
And was the Holy Lamb of God in England's pleasent pastures seen..."

I don't know about the Book of Mormon, but I do believe the British Isles have played a much more significant role in the affairs of God's people than we understand.
I'm currently reading a book which postulates that Mary the mother of Jesus was born and raised in England.

Additionally I remember reading an article a while ago which made a very good case for the Jaredites sailing to their promised land from England.
Interesting stuff.

In a nutshell, here is my theory. And I say at the outset that I have very little evidence to support it. Arthur was a Bishop in the Church of Jesus Christ in post Roman times. Beset with apostacy and isolated from any news from the headquarters of the church he sent his priests/knights on a quest for the Holy Grail (keys of the priesthood). They were surrounded by hostile pagans, the English (not much has changed, has it!) and had to keep their mission somewhat covert (think Moroni and the Lamanites killing any Christians they found) hence the quest for the "Holy Grail". Bishops had the keys to ordain deacons teachers and priests, but no office higher. Linguistic echoes remained in the later English church.

I suspect the apostacy happened later in the peripheries of the Roman Empire later then we might think. Consider the Pelagian heresy and it similarities to Mormon's epistles.

I concur with much of your post.
I have long held the view that the apostasy wasn't complete until 570AD. However, it will have occured in much of the known world quite a bit earlier. When the Roman Church missionaries came to England they encountered Britons who were already Christians and members of what we call today the Celtic Church. This church had nothing to do with Rome or the Pope.

Nibley notes that the apostles left instructions for the perpetuation of the office of bishop and you're right, a church ministered to and by Aaronic authority is very likely once the higher priesthood was lost. It is also likely that this situation could have persisted for some considerable time.
When we look at the structures of the Roman Catholic church, as well as Anglicans and Orthodox, we see the Aaronic pattern of bishop, priest and deacon to this very day.

[mahalanobis]

The Gulf of Mexico is fairly shallow and there are a million islands. Maybe the geography was notably different 2600 years ago, particularly south of Florida. There may have been several narrow necks.

This is just a random thought. I've put less than 2 minutes of effort into it.

[LDS Watchman]

The Gulf of Mexico is fairly shallow and there are a million islands. Maybe the geography was notably different 2600 years ago, particularly south of Florida. There may have been several narrow necks.

This is just a random thought. I've put less than 2 minutes of effort into it.

There's no question that the geography where the Book of Mormon took place was very different before the death of Christ just under 2000 years ago.

The "entire face of the land" was changed. Mountains were toppled, new mountains rose up "whose height is great", highways were broken up, cities were buried by falling mountains, cities were sunk in the ocean as the coastline was changed.

All of this happened in the space of 3 hours.

With this in mind, Andean Peru is by far the best match for where the Book of Mormon took place. No other model even comes close to matching the scriptural record.

All of the evidence is presented at nephicode.blogspot.com

[mahalanobis]

The Gulf of Mexico is fairly shallow and there are a million islands. Maybe the geography was notably different 2600 years ago, particularly south of Florida. There may have been several narrow necks.

This is just a random thought. I've put less than 2 minutes of effort into it.

There's no question that the geography where the Book of Mormon took place was very different before the death of Christ just under 2000 years ago.

The "entire face of the land" was changed. Mountains were toppled, new mountains rose up "whose height is great", highways were broken up, cities were buried by falling mountains, cities were sunk in the ocean as the coastline was changed.

All of this happened in the space of 3 hours.

With this in mind, Andean Peru is by far the best match for where the Book of Mormon took place. No other model even comes close to matching the scriptural record.

All of the evidence is presented at nephicode.blogspot.com

I don't have a dog in the fight. I think all the models have big issues, honestly. It winds up being subjective - meaning that people pick and choose which criteria is the most important while dismissing others.

[LDS Watchman]

The Gulf of Mexico is fairly shallow and there are a million islands. Maybe the geography was notably different 2600 years ago, particularly south of Florida. There may have been several narrow necks.

This is just a random thought. I've put less than 2 minutes of effort into it.

There's no question that the geography where the Book of Mormon took place was very different before the death of Christ just under 2000 years ago.

The "entire face of the land" was changed. Mountains were toppled, new mountains rose up "whose height is great", highways were broken up, cities were buried by falling mountains, cities were sunk in the ocean as the coastline was changed.

All of this happened in the space of 3 hours.

With this in mind, Andean Peru is by far the best match for where the Book of Mormon took place. No other model even comes close to matching the scriptural record.

All of the evidence is presented at nephicode.blogspot.com

I don't have a dog in the fight. I think all the models have big issues, honestly. It winds up being subjective - meaning that people pick and choose which criteria is the most important while dismissing others.

I don't have a dog in the fight either, other than to determine the truth.

At the end of the day knowing exactly where the Book of Mormon took place doesn't matter all that much.

However it is nice to know that there is a ton of evidence that supports the Book of Mormon being a true record, if nothing else to silence the critics.

Promoting a false model that requires all kinds of mental gymnastics only gives the antis more ammunition.

This is why I wish the Heartland theory and even the Mesoamerican theory would be abandoned. Neither one of them match Mormon's description of the land at all. Clinging to either of those two theories makes us look foolish.

[Lord of my dogs]

In a primitive sense there are four great seas. They are the North Sea, English Channel, Celtic sea and Atlantic Ocean. Further up the Island is a narrow stretch of land above which in olden times lived the more wild Pics. There is a great river and anciently a large city. To the west live the darker skinned Welsh. During the time of the book of Mormon Roman Armies came from the east and left. Then later came back and stayed. There were temples, horses, wagons and iron working. There was even corn.

corn (n.1)
"grain," Old English corn "single seed of a cereal plant; seeds of cereal plants generally; plants which produce corn when growing in the field," from Proto-Germanic *kurnam "small seed" (source also of Old Frisian and Old Saxon korn "grain," Middle Dutch coren, German Korn, Old Norse korn, Gothic kaurn), from PIE root *gre-no- "grain."

The sense of the Old English word was "grain with the seed still in" (as in barleycorn) rather than a particular plant. Locally understood to denote the leading crop of a district. It has been restricted to the indigenous "maize" in America (c. 1600, originally Indian corn, but the adjective was dropped), usually "wheat" in England, "oats" in Scotland and Ireland, while Korn means "rye" in parts of Germany.

There are also legends of a great treasure being taken from England and hidden in the Northeast part of the US. Movies have been made about those legends.

Contrary to what some may think I do not have a big problem with the 1830 LDS Church. It is all the nonsense that came after 1830 that is not right with me. The Spirit testifies of that, to me. However the Spirit also testifies to me that there is a BOM land and that land is England.

That explains the HORSES!!!!!

[Lord of my dogs]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

South America my magic garments!

[mahalanobis]

Heartlanders point to DNA evidence near great lakes area.

I'm not a population geneticist, so don't look to me to confirm or deny.

[Davka]

"And did those feet in ancient times walk upon England's mountains green
And was the Holy Lamb of God in England's pleasent pastures seen..."

I don't know about the Book of Mormon, but I do believe the British Isles have played a much more significant role in the affairs of God's people than we understand.
I'm currently reading a book which postulates that Mary the mother of Jesus was born and raised in England.

Additionally I remember reading an article a while ago which made a very good case for the Jaredites sailing to their promised land from England.
Interesting stuff.

What are you currently reading?

[Silver Pie]

People around here (besides me) are very staunch supporters of what they call a heartland model that centers the Book of Mormon story in modern day america.

Hey!

[Michael Sherwin]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

South America my magic garments!

The period known as the Iron Age lasted in Britain for about 800 years (from c.750 BC to AD 43). The changes and technological innovations that occurred during this time were every bit as evolutionary as those that have occurred in the last 800 years, from the 13th century to the present day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/br ... o_01.shtml

No such evidence of an Iron Age is to be found during BOM times anywhere in the America's. Yet the approximation they make for an Iron Age in Britain matches up pretty well! There is even an explanation of how the golden plates arrived in America, specifically in the Northeast United States. In the Templar legend of the treasure it was hidden in the Americas to keep it safe.

As far as the collections go afaik the relics are copper, no iron. Every bit of evidence that is missing from any site in the Americas is present in Britain. We have the mounds in Ohio and that area but they never tell the whole facts. Buried in the mounds are red headed giants that were 7 to 8 feet tall. They tell you that the mounds date from 600 BC but fail to tell that there are identical mounds from as early as 1100 BC. They tell of a minor DNA marker to the Middle East but fail to tell that it converges 30 thousand years ago.

The only question for me is, how accurate is the BOM timeline after 1 AD and how pervasive was the Roman occupation of Britain. My guess and it is just a guess that Rome did not hold sway other than around London and forts around Hadrian's wall.

Another clue is the religion of the Zoramites. It sounds a lot like Mithraism which would have been introduced by the Romans. And it would be natural for some groups to split off and join the more powerful Roman forces.

The Zoramites are identified as an apostate sect from the true Church of God. The doctrines and practices of the Zoramites are described by Alma as follows:

The worship of idols (Alma 31:1).
The rejection of the Law of Moses (Alma 31:9).
The rejection of church sacraments and daily prayer (Alma 31:10).
The building of Synagogues for worship once a week on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:12).
The use of a raised platform for individuals to offer public prayer on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:13, Alma 38:13).
The rejection of Christ (Alma 31:17, Alma 31:29).
The belief that the Zoramites are the chosen people of God (Alma 31:18).
Worship may occur only in a synagogue, and the poor are not allowed to enter (Alma 32:5, Alma 32:9).
The church is combined with the state and has rulers, priests, and teachers (Alma 35:5).

This is the perfect picture of a Roman occupation! And I will add that I had not even had an inkling of any of this nor did the thought cross my mind, nor was I even looking when the Spirit blasted this notion into my awareness. Before that I was 100% convinced that Nephi was a total fabrication.

[LDS Watchman]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

The early members of the Church thought that the BOM took place all over North, Central, and South America.

As early as 1830 it was being taught that Lehi landed on the west coast of Chile.

Joseph Smith smlater declared that ruins in central America proved the Book of Mormon true. He also said that Lehi landed south of the isthmus of Darian (Panama).

[LDS Watchman]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

South America my magic garments!

The period known as the Iron Age lasted in Britain for about 800 years (from c.750 BC to AD 43). The changes and technological innovations that occurred during this time were every bit as evolutionary as those that have occurred in the last 800 years, from the 13th century to the present day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/br ... o_01.shtml

No such evidence of an Iron Age is to be found during BOM times anywhere in the America's. Yet the approximation they make for an Iron Age in Britain matches up pretty well! There is even an explanation of how the golden plates arrived in America, specifically in the Northeast United States. In the Templar legend of the treasure it was hidden in the Americas to keep it safe.

As far as the collections go afaik the relics are copper, no iron. Every bit of evidence that is missing from any site in the Americas is present in Britain. We have the mounds in Ohio and that area but they never tell the whole facts. Buried in the mounds is red headed giants that were 7 to 8 feet tall. They tell you that the mounds date from 600 BC but fail to tell that there are identical mounds from as early as 1100 BC. They tell of a minor DNA marker to the Middle East but fail to tell that it converges 30 thousand years ago.

The only question for me is, how accurate is the BOM timeline after 1 AD and how pervasive was the Roman occupation of Britain. My guess and it is just a guess that Rome did not hold sway other than around London and forts around Hadrian's wall.

Another clue is the religion of the Zoramites. It sounds a lot like Mithraism which would have been introduced by the Romans. And it would be natural for some groups to split off and join the more powerful Roman forces.

The Zoramites are identified as an apostate sect from the true Church of God. The doctrines and practices of the Zoramites are described by Alma as follows:

The worship of idols (Alma 31:1).
The rejection of the Law of Moses (Alma 31:9).
The rejection of church sacraments and daily prayer (Alma 31:10).
The building of Synagogues for worship once a week on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:12).
The use of a raised platform for individuals to offer public prayer on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:13, Alma 38:13).
The rejection of Christ (Alma 31:17, Alma 31:29).
The belief that the Zoramites are the chosen people of God (Alma 31:18).
Worship may occur only in a synagogue, and the poor are not allowed to enter (Alma 32:5, Alma 32:9).
The church is combined with the state and has rulers, priests, and teachers (Alma 35:5).

This is the perfect picture of a Roman occupation! And I will add that I had not even had an inkling of any of this nor did the thought cross my mind, nor was I even looking when the Spirit blasted this notion into my awareness. Before that I was 100% convinced that Nephi was a total fabrication.

All of the metals described in the BOM were found in ancient Peru, including iron.

[Michael Sherwin]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

South America my magic garments!

The period known as the Iron Age lasted in Britain for about 800 years (from c.750 BC to AD 43). The changes and technological innovations that occurred during this time were every bit as evolutionary as those that have occurred in the last 800 years, from the 13th century to the present day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/br ... o_01.shtml

No such evidence of an Iron Age is to be found during BOM times anywhere in the America's. Yet the approximation they make for an Iron Age in Britain matches up pretty well! There is even an explanation of how the golden plates arrived in America, specifically in the Northeast United States. In the Templar legend of the treasure it was hidden in the Americas to keep it safe.

As far as the collections go afaik the relics are copper, no iron. Every bit of evidence that is missing from any site in the Americas is present in Britain. We have the mounds in Ohio and that area but they never tell the whole facts. Buried in the mounds is red headed giants that were 7 to 8 feet tall. They tell you that the mounds date from 600 BC but fail to tell that there are identical mounds from as early as 1100 BC. They tell of a minor DNA marker to the Middle East but fail to tell that it converges 30 thousand years ago.

The only question for me is, how accurate is the BOM timeline after 1 AD and how pervasive was the Roman occupation of Britain. My guess and it is just a guess that Rome did not hold sway other than around London and forts around Hadrian's wall.

Another clue is the religion of the Zoramites. It sounds a lot like Mithraism which would have been introduced by the Romans. And it would be natural for some groups to split off and join the more powerful Roman forces.

The Zoramites are identified as an apostate sect from the true Church of God. The doctrines and practices of the Zoramites are described by Alma as follows:

The worship of idols (Alma 31:1).
The rejection of the Law of Moses (Alma 31:9).
The rejection of church sacraments and daily prayer (Alma 31:10).
The building of Synagogues for worship once a week on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:12).
The use of a raised platform for individuals to offer public prayer on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:13, Alma 38:13).
The rejection of Christ (Alma 31:17, Alma 31:29).
The belief that the Zoramites are the chosen people of God (Alma 31:18).
Worship may occur only in a synagogue, and the poor are not allowed to enter (Alma 32:5, Alma 32:9).
The church is combined with the state and has rulers, priests, and teachers (Alma 35:5).

This is the perfect picture of a Roman occupation! And I will add that I had not even had an inkling of any of this nor did the thought cross my mind, nor was I even looking when the Spirit blasted this notion into my awareness. Before that I was 100% convinced that Nephi was a total fabrication.

All of the metals described in the BOM were found in ancient Peru, including iron.

Metallurgy in pre-Columbian America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurg ... an_America

South American metal working seems to have developed in the Andean region of modern Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Chile, and Argentina with gold and copper being hammered and shaped into intricate objects, particularly ornaments.[1][5] Recent finds date the earliest gold work to 2155–1936 BCE.[1] and the earliest copper work to 1432–1132 BCE.[5][6][7] Ice core studies in Bolivia however suggest copper smelting may have begun as early as 2000 BCE.[8] These works originated in the context of a society undergoing social and economic changes but still very much a small food producer and not yet quite sedentary. This contrasts with the idea that this type of metal work developed in societies with enough food surplus to support an élite. Rather than being a product of a hierarchical society, gold might have been meshed in the development of such a society. Further evidence for this type of metal work comes from the sites at Waywaka (near es:Andahuaylas, Lugares de interés, southern Peru), Chavín and Kotosh,[9] and it seems to have been spread throughout Andean societies by the Early horizon (1000–200 BCE).

Unlike in other metallurgy traditions where metals gain importance due to their widespread use in fields ranging from weaponry to everyday utensils, metals in South America (and later in Central America) were mainly valued as adornments and objects representative of a high status (though some more functional objects might have been[original research?] produced). During the Early horizon, advancements in metal working result in spectacular and characteristically Andean gold objects made by the joining of smaller metal sheets, and also gold-silver alloy appears.

Two traditions seem to have developed alongside each other – one in northern Peru and Ecuador, and another in the Altiplano region of southern Peru, Bolivia and Chile. There is evidence for smelting of copper sulphide in the Altiplano region around the Early horizon. Evidence for this comes from copper slag recovered at several sites,[10] with the ore itself possibly coming from the south Chilean-Bolivian border. Extensive use of "portable" smelting kilns in the vicinity of Puma Punku, Bolivia and at three additional sites in Peru and Bolivia to manufacture, in situ, "I" beams as connectors to large stone blocks during the construction process represent a seemingly anomalous function for metal smelting.[citation needed] The reported chemical analysis of these metal pours is 95.15% copper, 2.05% arsenic, 1.70% nickel, .84% silicon and .26% iron. The estimated date of these pours lies between 800 –500 BCE.

[Michael Sherwin]

In the early church it was well known that the BOM happened in North East between lake Eire and Ontario.

They (Old Joe) dug up buried treasure and artifacts buried from NY past Ohio. Some collections are very well documented.

South America my magic garments!

The period known as the Iron Age lasted in Britain for about 800 years (from c.750 BC to AD 43). The changes and technological innovations that occurred during this time were every bit as evolutionary as those that have occurred in the last 800 years, from the 13th century to the present day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/br ... o_01.shtml

No such evidence of an Iron Age is to be found during BOM times anywhere in the America's. Yet the approximation they make for an Iron Age in Britain matches up pretty well! There is even an explanation of how the golden plates arrived in America, specifically in the Northeast United States. In the Templar legend of the treasure it was hidden in the Americas to keep it safe.

As far as the collections go afaik the relics are copper, no iron. Every bit of evidence that is missing from any site in the Americas is present in Britain. We have the mounds in Ohio and that area but they never tell the whole facts. Buried in the mounds are red headed giants that were 7 to 8 feet tall. They tell you that the mounds date from 600 BC but fail to tell that there are identical mounds from as early as 1100 BC. They tell of a minor DNA marker to the Middle East but fail to tell that it converges 30 thousand years ago.

The only question for me is, how accurate is the BOM timeline after 1 AD and how pervasive was the Roman occupation of Britain. My guess and it is just a guess that Rome did not hold sway other than around London and forts around Hadrian's wall.

Another clue is the religion of the Zoramites. It sounds a lot like Mithraism which would have been introduced by the Romans. And it would be natural for some groups to split off and join the more powerful Roman forces.

The Zoramites are identified as an apostate sect from the true Church of God. The doctrines and practices of the Zoramites are described by Alma as follows:

The worship of idols (Alma 31:1).
The rejection of the Law of Moses (Alma 31:9).
The rejection of church sacraments and daily prayer (Alma 31:10).
The building of Synagogues for worship once a week on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:12).
The use of a raised platform for individuals to offer public prayer on the day of the Lord (Alma 31:13, Alma 38:13).
The rejection of Christ (Alma 31:17, Alma 31:29).
The belief that the Zoramites are the chosen people of God (Alma 31:18).
Worship may occur only in a synagogue, and the poor are not allowed to enter (Alma 32:5, Alma 32:9).
The church is combined with the state and has rulers, priests, and teachers (Alma 35:5).

This is the perfect picture of a Roman occupation! And I will add that I had not even had an inkling of any of this nor did the thought cross my mind, nor was I even looking when the Spirit blasted this notion into my awareness. Before that I was 100% convinced that Nephi was a total fabrication.

A yazata is anything to be worshiped in Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda is the highest yazata. The divine sparks are all manifestations of different qualities of Ahura Mazda, and they are yazata as well. Much like the Catholics today pray to saints, the Zoroastrians could pray to various yazata. One of the most popular was Mithra, the protector of oaths, cattle and the sun. Mithra later became a popular deity in the Roman army.

Zoramites equals Zoroastrianism of which Mithraism was the Roman denomination. The evidence mounts.

[mahalanobis]

Re England:

Where did Hagoth go? A nearby isle like Ireland isn't sufficient to "never be heard of or seen again"

Where is the land that is so desolate that there are no trees?