LDS Freedom Forum

Two Apostles ask members at a devotional to pray for our country.
https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/20/2092 ... ll-ballard

It seems timely but also out of the ordinary. The brethren haven't made much mention of the state of the country for a while, at least that I can recall.

“As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I (Elder Ballard) have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” said President Ballard. “His words often include words of encouragement and expressions of love. They also include words of warning.”

America and the nations of the Earth, as in times past, “are at another crossroad,” he said.

How about stating which country in the title...

I got the following text from a friend who's daughter lives in Alexandria, VA today and thought it was worth sharing:

"We had stake conf this morning . . . later in the afternoon, we had regional conference with Pres. Ballard and Elder Christopherson broadcast from Boston, Massachusetts. Pres. Ballard asked us to pray for our nation after giving a 'historical colonial America talk' and included Nephi's vision of this happening. He said multiple times pray for the Nation, this country, our leaders, and tell everyone you know to do the same. That this Nation was founded on prayer. That we need to stand boldly for truth. And righteousness. That we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God. Because we are not immune to destruction.
Ask how your ancestors came to this country or if you're immigrants how did the Lord guide your hand to this place?
The second piece was a thought I liked: Finding the purpose of what you (we) need to do with all you (we) have been given. And recognize the Lord's hand in our lives.
He showed a deep respect, admiration and love for his family ancestors and early colonists in history and connection to NE US. It felt deeply personal. And interesting how much he talked about praying for our Nation because it's at a crossroads (I think he said those words). He seemed to be yearning for righteousness in leadership for the direction of the country to get it together under God - like repent ALL you prideful politicians and ask God to lead you to get important work done. "
I hope we all will Pray for our nation - pray hard and tell others to pray.

They seem to be echoing what Pres. Trump said in multiple ways in his talk to the Values Voter summit here: https://youtu.be/S3KubXLwFPA

Notice how they opened in prayer with Trump. Notice how Trump said we are a nation that believes we get our rights from God, not government. Several other points he makes in the midst of an otherwise political speech: what we are doing to help oppressed Christians in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East (in terms of funding, allowing more Christian refugees into our country, etc.); how he has abrogated the Johnson Amendment, allowing Pastors, etc., who claim 501c3 exemption, to speak out publicly on issues they deem important (i.e., who not to vote for , what the government may be doing wrong, etc.); how he spoke at UN on the importance and necessity of the nations of the earth to preserve religious freedom (apparently the first US President to do so); as well as expressing many other pro-faith/religious sentiments, including the neccesity of preserving our cultural and political heritage, including our Constitution in its original meaning.

At the end of his talk he says this:

"As one people, one nation, and one United States of America, we will stand as a light of liberty, a land of courage, and a home to a proud people of faith. Forever and always, Americans will believe in the cause of freedom, the power of prayer and the eternal glory of God."

How can any reasonable LDS American object to these wonderful sentiments?

Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

larsenb wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 12:40 pm They seem to be echoing what Pres. Trump said in multiple ways in his talk to the Values Voter summit here: https://youtu.be/S3KubXLwFPA

Notice how they opened in prayer with Trump. Notice how Trump said we are a nation that believes we get our rights from God, not government. Several other points he makes in the midst of an otherwise political speech: what we are doing to help oppressed Christians in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East (in terms of funding, allowing more Christian refugees into our country, etc.); how he has abrogated the Johnson Amendment, allowing Pastors, etc., who claim 501c3 exemption, to speak out publicly on issues they deem important (i.e., who not to vote for , what the government may be doing wrong, etc.); how he spoke at UN on the importance and necessity of the nations of the earth to preserve religious freedom (apparently the first US President to do so); as well as expressing many other pro-faith/religious sentiments, including the neccesity of preserving our cultural and political heritage, including our Constitution in its original meaning.

At the end of his talk he says this:

"As one people, one nation, and one United States of America, we will stand as a light of liberty, a land of courage, and a home to a proud people of faith. Forever and always, Americans will believe in the cause of freedom, the power of prayer and the eternal glory of God."

How can any reasonable LDS American object to these wonderful sentiments?

Nice token thrown out to us religious folk. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... ment-true/

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

We are about to go to war and have our gas and food dry up unless we speedily repent.

Sarah wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:21 pm We are about to go to war and have our gas and food dry up unless we speedily repent.

We've been at war since 2001.

Sarah wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:21 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

We are about to go to war and have our gas and food dry up unless we speedily repent.

That is nothing new - I've literally heard that my entire life, and I'm 54. Maybe they should have asked the members to pray for our country decades ago, before communism got its foothold. Once it did, it's a little late to pray for the country. Benson was the last president of the Church to understand any of this - the members ignored him, scoffed at him - and they still do. Also, nobody is going to repent until AFTER the gas and food are gone - that's mankind, that's history, people are the same as they've ever been, and history does nothing if not repeat. Too late to pray for the U.S. Time to focus on our families - and like I said, a good idea to pray for the Church.

h_p wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:25 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:21 pm We are about to go to war and have our gas and food dry up unless we speedily repent.

We've been at war since 2001.

You could probably kick that back to 1991, Gulf War 1, carried through w/sanctions; then the Balkan wars (Kosovo, etc.)

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:28 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:21 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

We are about to go to war and have our gas and food dry up unless we speedily repent.

That is nothing new - I've literally heard that my entire life, and I'm 54. Maybe they should have asked the members to pray for our country decades ago, before communism got its foothold. Once it did, it's a little late to pray for the country. Benson was the last president of the Church to understand any of this - the members ignored him, scoffed at him - and they still do. Also, nobody is going to repent until AFTER the gas and food are gone - that's mankind, that's history, people are the same as they've ever been, and history does nothing if not repeat. Too late to pray for the U.S. Time to focus on our families - and like I said, a good idea to pray for the Church.

I agree. All we can do is our best to live righteous lives, and this, "Finding the purpose of what you (we) need to do with all you (we) have been given."

I don't think that President Benson was the last president of the Church to understand any of this. But I believe he was the last to have really called it to our attention and gave us direction/instruction Re. what Latter-day Saints should do about this.

President Nelson has urged us to strive for personal revelation, which could give us individually direction Re. what we each should do.

One of my friends has this in his patriarchal blessing: " Study the Constitution of The United States of America. Learn of it so you may be able to defend it, for it was divinely instituted here so that the Gospel might be restored in these latter days. We must defend this Constitution and keep it from being undermined and destroyed, that our religious liberties may remain in tact". Others have gotten the same basic message thru personal revelation.

The prophecies in the scriptures will all be fulfilled every whit. That's the message I've gotten through personal revelation.

Sarah wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:19 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 12:40 pm They seem to be echoing what Pres. Trump said in multiple ways in his talk to the Values Voter summit here: https://youtu.be/S3KubXLwFPA

Notice how they opened in prayer with Trump. Notice how Trump said we are a nation that believes we get our rights from God, not government. Several other points he makes in the midst of an otherwise political speech: what we are doing to help oppressed Christians in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East (in terms of funding, allowing more Christian refugees into our country, etc.); how he has abrogated the Johnson Amendment, allowing Pastors, etc., who claim 501c3 exemption, to speak out publicly on issues they deem important (i.e., who not to vote for , what the government may be doing wrong, etc.); how he spoke at UN on the importance and necessity of the nations of the earth to preserve religious freedom (apparently the first US President to do so); as well as expressing many other pro-faith/religious sentiments, including the neccesity of preserving our cultural and political heritage, including our Constitution in its original meaning.

At the end of his talk he says this:

"As one people, one nation, and one United States of America, we will stand as a light of liberty, a land of courage, and a home to a proud people of faith. Forever and always, Americans will believe in the cause of freedom, the power of prayer and the eternal glory of God."

How can any reasonable LDS American object to these wonderful sentiments?

Nice token thrown out to us religious folk. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... ment-true/

And have you ever heard any other President or Congress person shed light on the necessity of doing away with the Johnson Amendment? I doubt it.

Trump's basically given Treasury the order not to enforce it. And I hope he does pursue getting it permanently abolished via Congress. Religious leaders and institutes should be able to speak out against any candidate, Congress person, President or anything or person, they think poses a danger to long established spiritual, religious, societal norms, including what they think are violations of God's law.

They should be able to fully function as a 4th Estate, especially in times when our press largely drops this ball. And they should be able to do so both to their congregations and in public, is my strongly held opinion.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

But I think Trump is playing a significant role in shedding light on the secret combinations by opposing many of their agendas and going public about them. I see this as one of his roles in all this, and hope he can do even better in this effort in the future.

The church mobilized for proposition 8 (against gay marriage) in California not that many years ago. Think about that for a moment. In 2008, in California the people voted against same sex marriage.

I still don't believe that gay marriage is as popular as "popular" media would have you believe but still.

Though I agree we should pray for our nation, nothing will affect the promised land of Joseph like the covenant people. Let's make ourselves salty first. But even the purest salt won't keep refuse. Nothing will stop God's judgements if the people don't reject the gadiantons who are legislating Luciferian laws from the judicial Branch, and the legislative branch who is trying to get judicial with the Executive. These thieves aren't just trying to relitigate the 2016 election but are actively planning on how to subvert the will of the people in 2020. Be ready for the dirtiest election yet.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did with Trump in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Did any of the apostles attend the inauguration of Trump? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

Ballard along w/Anderson came out against 'nationalism' with no qualification exactly 2 years ago when it was clearly known that Trump was repeatedly speaking out against the dangers of globalism, and the necessity of protecting our borders and nation.

larsenb wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:41 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

Ballard along w/Anderson came out against 'nationalism' with no qualification exactly 2 years ago when it was clearly known that Trump was repeatedly speaking out against the dangers of globalism, and the necessity of protecting our borders and nation.

Oh yes, thank you; I'd forgotten about that ridiculousness. Why didn't any of the apostles come out against Marxism when BO was in office destroying our nation with his Satanic ideologies for 8 years? These are all rhetorical questions, of course, as the answers are obvious, and more than a little disturbing.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did with Trump in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Did any of the apostles attend the inauguration of Trump? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

Whatever side some of the Apostles might be on, Ballard didn't say anything specific towards Trump being the problem. He did, however, specify that this is the Lord's message to us.
Things to think about-

Trump invokes God.
Trump wants to protect Christianity.
Trump says this is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.
Trump is for religious freedom.
Trump is pro-life

The left are against all of the above.

Ballard said this-

"We must stand boldly for righteousness and truth and must defend the cause of honor, decency and personal freedom espoused by Washington, Madison, Adams, Lincoln and other leaders who acknowledged and loved God.”

None of that is found within the new Democrat party.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 3:22 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did with Trump in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Did any of the apostles attend the inauguration of Trump? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

Whatever side some of the Apostles might be on, Ballard didn't say anything specific towards Trump being the problem. He did, however, specify that this is the Lord's message to us.
Things to think about-

Trump invokes God.
Trump wants to protect Christianity.
Trump says this is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.
Trump is for religious freedom.
Trump is pro-life

The left are against all of the above.

Ballard said this-

"We must stand boldly for righteousness and truth and must defend the cause of honor, decency and personal freedom espoused by Washington, Madison, Adams, Lincoln and other leaders who acknowledged and loved God.”

None of that is found within the new Democrat party.

Mostly agree (except the Lincoln part - swap him out and put Jefferson in, and we're good). The Democrat party of Clinton and BO was firmly evil, as well - in fact, they both (especially BO, a Marxist) paved the way nicely for the full-on out-of-the-closet communists running that party today. I knew what BO was about well before he got elected - why didn't they? (speaking of Ballard - he and Uchtdorf attended BO's inauguration, and bawled with joy - pics and article online - feel free to google it) Where is the discernment in any of this? So while I agree with Ballard's sentiments on their own, as an independent statement - the context (time/place/who is president now HAS to be taken into account, as he specifically mentioned U.S. presidents), with everything else I and larsenb mentioned, has to be considered (as hard as the conclusion might be to accept). And no, I do not believe apostles should speak out of both sides of their mouth - or have a public persona and a private one - they should speak plainly. NOTHING is political - EVERYTHING is spiritual. I believe that 100%.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 10:12 am How about stating which country in the title...

I think we could all do with it.
The current direction of the US and the West cannot continue for long.
We turn back or we go over the edge.

If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during any of those heinously evil administrations since the Reagan administration the latter-day gadiantons would have come down on the Church and hell would have cone with them. From Bush 41 thru Obama, ALL presidents have been gadiantons. I don't expect much concurrence on that, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 3:22 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 2:11 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑October 21st, 2019, 1:17 pm Did the apostles say as much when Clinton or BO were in office? If not, why not? The damage they both did to the U.S. (and elsewhere) was incalculable, yet I don't remember a plea to "pray for our country", or that "we need to have leaders like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington - God fearing men . . today's leaders should forsake evil and cleave unto God", when either of those truly evil, anti-Christ, anti-American men were president. How very strange, but sadly, expected. I would add, pray for our Church, to the list of things to pray for.

I don't think this is a Trump issue. My opinion and the first thing that came to my mind is that the secret combinations are being brought to light and all hell will break loose soon enough. This hasn't happened before, at least in this country to the degree it is now.

I understand what you're saying, Art, but I respectfully disagree. The country is in the state it's in now precisely because nothing was done about Clinton and BO (and others to a degree, including both Bushes). If our Church leaders had spoken out even once during either of those heinously evil administrations - or asked us to pray for the country using the same verbiage as they used here (which it's plainly obvious what they're implying, IMO) - then I might accept what you're saying. They didn't. Can you find any pro (or even neutral) articles about Trump in the LDS Church-owned Deseret News? Have the apostles given him his genealogy info, like they did with Clinton and BO (pretty much as soon as they were in office their first term, BTW)? Did any of the apostles publicly diss Clinton or BO when they were in office, like Oaks did with Trump in his BYU-Hawaii speech a couple years ago? Did any of the apostles attend the inauguration of Trump? Those are just a few examples of obvious, glaring differences in how the Church leaders (and those who they get their news/info from) viewed/treated Clinton and BO vs. Trump. It doesn't take much to read between the lines of what Ballard said, IMO.

And before I get attacked by some here who seem to think only fans of Trump see and recognize all these things, I didn't vote for Trump - I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

Whatever side some of the Apostles might be on, Ballard didn't say anything specific towards Trump being the problem. He did, however, specify that this is the Lord's message to us.
Things to think about-

Trump invokes God.
Trump wants to protect Christianity.
Trump says this is a Christian nation based on Christian principles.
Trump is for religious freedom.
Trump is pro-life

The left are against all of the above.

Ballard said this-

"We must stand boldly for righteousness and truth and must defend the cause of honor, decency and personal freedom espoused by Washington, Madison, Adams, Lincoln and other leaders who acknowledged and loved God.”

None of that is found within the new Democrat party.

It's not spoken of at General Conferance either.