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I've heard of two different opinions. One opinion is that God has a set date for the second coming. Or the other option is that he changes the day or the time due to peoples righteousness or wickedness. What do the prophets and apostles say about Christ coming is it movable and changeable due to people's wickedness or righteousness or is it a set date and time. Will praying for the second coming of Christ Bring It closer that we have Zion and that people are happier in that Zion like state or well prayer not help this. Will praying for the second coming of Christ make it so that all of the Calamity start happening or is that due to the wickedness of the people? I have a group that is called praying for Jesus's return on Facebook and I have a few people in it and I'm super excited about it and I would like to know more about prophets and apostles statements about the second coming in this scenario. Someone I know thinks that praying for the second coming will mean that I'm praying for destruction of everybody that's bad at all and all things that are evil and that I'm a bad person for asking for Christ to come. They say that praying for Christ to come is like asking for all these people to die. And all the calamities to come. So I don't understand this ideology at all but I can see where they're coming from. I swear I've heard of prophets saying to pray for Zion and for Jesus to come.

Please help me. Prophets and apostle quotes would be helpful!!!!
Lol I want to make this a movement and I keep having people against it for some reason. (And it's always about this being a bad thing to pray for)

Since 'no man knows' (that means us) the date of the second coming, how can we know if the date is a set date or movable? I'd say we will not know one way or the other. After it happens, we'll find out.

Joseph Fielding Smith said he was praying for the Second Coming so you would be in good company. He also said this:

“I get annoyed sometimes at some of our elders who when speaking, say the Lord will come when we all become righteous enough to receive him. The Lord is not going to wait for us to get righteous. When he gets ready to come he is going to come—when the cup of iniquity is full—and if we are not righteous then, it will be just too bad for us for we will be classed among the ungodly, and we will be as stubble to be swept off the face of the earth, for the Lord says wickedness shall not stand.”

In any case asking if God set a specific date or if he adjusts it based on our decisions is possibly a meaningless question. He sees the end from the beginning so he can set it at a specific time before the world was and still take into account our choices. You can still pray for it and even influence it because God will take that prayer into account in that decision before the world was.

From these examples we learn that only Heavenly Father knows when the Savior’s Second Coming will occur,

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

I think it depends on if we get wicked enough or righteous enough that he has to finally intervene

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

It sounds very much like at set day and hour. It is set by the Father. I imagine from His perspective, being outside time, it has already happened as all things are before Him in the eternal now. For us, in the temporal plane, it is yet in the future. But it's there getting ever closer.

It is also worth noting that the dead probably do not know the time either. I always wondered why so much ink was used recording info on that day for those who would never live to see it but everyone will see it. The apostles at the time of Christ remember what he taught them about the signs of his coming kingdom and those they taught watch with anticipation in the same way we do on Earth.

No and yes

Was Christ 1st coming movable? No, it was set.
Like the 1st coming(before it happened), the 2nd has already been witnessed, and it was set before the world was. All these Events are connected, and can be looked at like one event.
(Imo)
That being said....if all men&women suddenly turned to Christ and left sin... He would come now and prophecy would be done with.
But we won't. Prophecy deals with what will happen, not with what could.


Also...I'm sure Christ knows the day.

marc wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

It sounds very much like at set day and hour. It is set by the Father. I imagine from His perspective, being outside time, it has already happened as all things are before Him in the eternal now. For us, in the temporal plane, it is yet in the future. But it's there getting ever closer.

Joseph Smith said:

“Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh... Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843)

So, was Joseph up in the night?

Yeah, actually interesting about Christ being the groom and us being the bride - I guess (so I've heard, I haven't verified it) but in Jewish tradition the Father is the one that decides when the groom is to meet the bride and the SOn doens't know when the date is. So some cool symbolism there

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 20th, 2019, 1:30 pm

marc wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 9:19 pm

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

It sounds very much like at set day and hour. It is set by the Father. I imagine from His perspective, being outside time, it has already happened as all things are before Him in the eternal now. For us, in the temporal plane, it is yet in the future. But it's there getting ever closer.

Joseph Smith said:

“Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh... Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843)

So, was Joseph up in the night?

Hmm. Here's another quote by Joseph Smith:

D&C 130:1414 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

It was not made known to Joseph Smith, ergo it did not come to pass. And since we are all still here wondering about it, it stands to reason that it has not been made known. Ergo, it has not been revealed even now. Maybe one minute after I post this it will be revealed and then we will rejoice? Maybe? In any case, the point of the topic is whether the date is set or movable. I believe it is set. We just don't know when it will be. And subscribing to your post, it hasn't yet been revealed.

President Joseph Fielding Smith once told a group of Latter-day Saints that he was “praying for the end of the world.” He said, “If it came tomorrow I would be glad.” In response to that declaration, a woman spoke out, loudly enough for others to hear. “Oh, I hope not,” she said. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... d?lang=eng

It appears Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith forgot about the tribulations that occur before the "end of the world." He can pray for it, but there is a timing to all things. If The "end of hte world" were to happen the way JFS describes it tomorrow, so many prophets would then be deemed false - God doesn't work that way.

I believe that the timing of the second coming is set---it has literally been on the calendar since the world began---but there are so many things that need to be done through faith and prayer before the appearance of the Lord that when we pray for the Lord to hasten his coming what we are really praying for is his help to do the work and recognize the signs leading up to his appearance in the clouds.

So when will we find out when his coming is? Will we know before it happens? Will the prophets?

9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Daniel 7:9-10

Adam, or Michael, will call his righteous children together and hold a council with them in Adam-ondi-Ahman “to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man.” (TPJS, p. 157) According to Daniel, there will be millions of people who minister to Adam and hundreds of millions in attendance. It is likely that the entire population of paradise will be present, all awaiting instruction on the events of the second coming, and their eventual deliverance from death. One of the most important details mentioned is that in this council “the judgment will be set.” (Daniel 7:10) This detail refers to at least two very important events that we might call “the judgment.”

In 1843, Joseph Smith wrote a letter to the editor of the Chicago Express in reference to a published article about Hyrum Redding who claimed to have seen the sign of the coming of the Son of Man:

But I shall use my right, and declare that, notwithstanding Mr. Redding may have seen a wonderful appearance in the clouds one morning about sunrise (which is nothing very uncommon in the winter season) he has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man, nor will any man, until after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood; for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the prophet saith, so it must be—“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets.” (See Amos 3:7.) Therefore, hear this, O earth: The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready.
Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 279-280

Later in 1843, Joseph further explained:

The coming of the Son of Man never will be—never can be till the judgments spoken of for this hour are poured out: which judgments are commenced… It is not the design of the Almighty to come upon the earth and crush it and grind it to powder, but he will reveal it to His servants the prophets.
Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 286

These statements from the prophet are clear that Joseph did not yet know exactly when the coming of the Son of Man in judgment would be, but that the timing of that event would be revealed to the prophets before it occurred.

In 1831, the Lord declared that no man, and none of the angels in heaven, will know the hour and the day of his coming until he comes.

6 And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the right hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand—
7 I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes.
Doctrine and Covenants 49:7

In taking the whole of the scriptural text together, and with the words of Amos (see Amos 3:7) and Daniel (Daniel 7:10) as a key, we can clarify the revelation somewhat by wording it this way:

“…the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until the Lord reveals it to his servants the prophets when he comes to Adam-ondi-Ahman.”

It will be in the grand council in Adam-ondi-Ahman that the judgment (and timing) of the Lord’s coming will be set forth.

I kinda believe the day is movable. But that's more so because I tend to view the Lord as coming when a certain list of conditions are all checked, combined with the fact that certain events are inevitable no matter what happens and that choices aren't set in stone until they happen.

My understanding is that God sees all possible permutations of the future, rather than the traditional understanding of there being one specific future who's the outcome is either predetermined or effectively predetermined. Heck, its quite possible that God is seeing multiple parallel timelines playing out right at the same time, and each and every one of them has certain consistencies in events, even if the timing of each varies somewhat due to the butterfly effect.

The main reason no one except the Father knows when Christ will return is simple: Christ comes not at a set time, but when certain conditions are all met and fulfilled.

No man knows the day or the hour, is because there is no single hour or even a single date existing everywhere on our spherical planet. It was a clue that there is more to this Earth than typically understood when those words were spoken.

If you build it (Zion) He will come.

I think the tribulation timing is set.
The Second Coming will depend on our establishing Zion. But it doesn't really matter in a way because the righteous will flee to Zion and Christ will already dwell among us.

The timing of the tribulation is of more immediate interest because that's when things really get going.

We are currently in the time of hastening the work.

XEmilyX wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 3:07 pm I've heard of two different opinions. One opinion is that God has a set date for the second coming. Or the other option is that he changes the day or the time due to peoples righteousness or wickedness. What do the prophets and apostles say about Christ coming is it movable and changeable due to people's wickedness or righteousness or is it a set date and time. Will praying for the second coming of Christ Bring It closer that we have Zion and that people are happier in that Zion like state or well prayer not help this. Will praying for the second coming of Christ make it so that all of the Calamity start happening or is that due to the wickedness of the people? I have a group that is called praying for Jesus's return on Facebook and I have a few people in it and I'm super excited about it and I would like to know more about prophets and apostles statements about the second coming in this scenario. Someone I know thinks that praying for the second coming will mean that I'm praying for destruction of everybody that's bad at all and all things that are evil and that I'm a bad person for asking for Christ to come. They say that praying for Christ to come is like asking for all these people to die. And all the calamities to come. So I don't understand this ideology at all but I can see where they're coming from. I swear I've heard of prophets saying to pray for Zion and for Jesus to come.

Please help me. Prophets and apostle quotes would be helpful!!!!
Lol I want to make this a movement and I keep having people against it for some reason. (And it's always about this being a bad thing to pray for)

The Lord answered this question Himself:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

His Father knows the day and the hour.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑November 1st, 2019, 1:13 am

XEmilyX wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 3:07 pm I've heard of two different opinions. One opinion is that God has a set date for the second coming. Or the other option is that he changes the day or the time due to peoples righteousness or wickedness. What do the prophets and apostles say about Christ coming is it movable and changeable due to people's wickedness or righteousness or is it a set date and time. Will praying for the second coming of Christ Bring It closer that we have Zion and that people are happier in that Zion like state or well prayer not help this. Will praying for the second coming of Christ make it so that all of the Calamity start happening or is that due to the wickedness of the people? I have a group that is called praying for Jesus's return on Facebook and I have a few people in it and I'm super excited about it and I would like to know more about prophets and apostles statements about the second coming in this scenario. Someone I know thinks that praying for the second coming will mean that I'm praying for destruction of everybody that's bad at all and all things that are evil and that I'm a bad person for asking for Christ to come. They say that praying for Christ to come is like asking for all these people to die. And all the calamities to come. So I don't understand this ideology at all but I can see where they're coming from. I swear I've heard of prophets saying to pray for Zion and for Jesus to come.

Please help me. Prophets and apostle quotes would be helpful!!!!
Lol I want to make this a movement and I keep having people against it for some reason. (And it's always about this being a bad thing to pray for)

The Lord answered this question Himself:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

His Father knows the day and the hour.

In KST

Kolob Standard Time.