Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

[EvanLM]

i liked harrikims answer

this quote from Nephi is referrring opposition to salvation. . .then he goes on to say that satan was dark and evil NOT man

Jordan said that man has dark and light and then gave examples. But then he forgot to give nonexamples or people who are always light with no dark

Nephi claims that these are forces of evil or good that work against us . . he never claims that manis darek or evil. . . he claims that they can choose

Jordan claims that the evil is within man . . kinda catholic there

you cannot just choose one sentence out of context and expect me to interpret it with the subject. you kinda hijacked the whole idea of me being accused of dark and light.

I still disagree and I am not dark . . . just sarcastic sometimes and disagreeable

[BeNotDeceived]

Thinker, I'm not sure if this exactly relates to what your thread is about but I've noticed when I feel sad or disappointed, sometimes I internalize it and I know there is sort of a sad/hard-to-approach aura around me and people don't seem to know what to say to me and I have a hard time speaking to others. When these situations happen, I'm not mad or angry. I'm just really disappointed and I know I release some sort of energy that makes me hard to approach.

I can also relate.
Besides spiritually energy, could it be partly personality (introversion) & temperament (ie sensitivity)? For me I think so. I can be overly empathic & sensitive & when I feel strong uncomfortable emotion, I tend to need time alone to process it all. Sometimes I reach out to others but for those I don’t trust, I probably emit a “do not disturb any further” vibe.

Occasionally I go to a meditation group because I want to learn more techniques & get better. I think it & praying can help a lot - just taking time to be still and “know that I AM THAT I AM” - God.

Hawaiian has a word for that, that I heard on Radio Free Palmer.

[EvanLM]

disagreement doesn't make me evil or dark

[Thinker]

Does the Sun have a shadow?

”Yes! But only when the sun passes in front of something even brighter (say, a quasar or supernova) relative to our line of sight.”

[darknesstolight]

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both. this comment is satanism

Does the Sun have a shadow?

It does. In fact without the shadow there would be no Sun and no way to know the Sun even exist. Everything and everyone in this universe exist as a combination of light and dark.

On the surface the Sun looks like an organized perfecr sphere but as you start to zoom down with microscope you will soon reach a resolution where everything is unorganized and seems chaotic. As you zoom further you see order again.

Everything is like that. There is what is explicit and there is what is implicit. There is you on the surface and you who you really are, flaws and all, negativity and positivity alike.

Duality is in fact One.

...

[darknesstolight]

disagreement doesn't make me evil or dark

Not a single claim has been made like that.

Are you confused or purposefully creating a strawman?

We should be honest in all our speach and to everyone we encounter. We should acknowledge our weaknesses instead of using language in a way that will give us victory in a discussion.

Your strawman now implicates the rest of us as having judged you simply because you disagree with us which would be unjust to you so you have protected your ego at other people's expense.

That's shadow.

...

[darknesstolight]

i liked harrikims answer

this quote from Nephi is referrring opposition to salvation. . .then he goes on to say that satan was dark and evil NOT man

Jordan said that man has dark and light and then gave examples. But then he forgot to give nonexamples or people who are always light with no dark

Nephi claims that these are forces of evil or good that work against us . . he never claims that manis darek or evil. . . he claims that they can choose

Jordan claims that the evil is within man . . kinda catholic there

you cannot just choose one sentence out of context and expect me to interpret it with the subject. you kinda hijacked the whole idea of me being accused of dark and light.

I still disagree and I am not dark . . . just sarcastic sometimes and disagreeable

Accepting that you have a shadow like all humans do is good for you and for society.

Its not a bad thing and the fact that you think you have nothing but good inside you and you just always do the right things and you never thing ill or bad or anyone and all of that is pure nonsense. Its diluted thinking to the extreme. But hey it's your life. Just know that you are in spiritual danger by denying a part of who you really are.

...

[Niemand]

Does the Sun have a shadow?

”Yes! But only when the sun passes in front of something even brighter (say, a quasar or supernova) relative to our line of sight.”

Like a teenager, it also has a lot of spots.

These aren't some NASA conspiracy. If you've got the equipment, you can observe sunspots at home by projecting them onto a screen. (Not with the naked eye - not a good idea).

[harakim]

If you say so. You have a shadow and we can see if even if you are denying it.

...

You can see my shadow? What do you mean by that?

So ridiculous! Also you don't have light without shadow. It's true.

"Globalist utopians demand that we fall in line with their "cure" for climate change. Dr Jordan B Peterson explains why the goal of achieving net zero emissions by 2050 is absolutely preposterous."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--QS_UyW2SY

...

What part of my quote were you responding to?

Evil is not part of your nature? Your natural man isn't evil?

At times, I DO evil. It's not that I AM evil. If causing evil makes me evil, then I, being evil, was created by Heavenly Father and that would make him evil.

Harakim, I’m also curious what you think of these thoughts…

I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to understand all of that, but I can say a few things. My most terrifying dream had a dragon in it and I'd say the part about the dragon representing a side of you you can't face checks out.

I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

[Niemand]

Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

The opposite can be true as well. During some SAS training some years ago, one or two people died. Now it's useful to the military have tough elite units, but it's also not useful to kill people before they go on the battlefield. If only because it deters recruits. In that case, it would have been a good thing if those people had given up... because it really achieved nothing.

[nightlight]

If you say so. You have a shadow and we can see if even if you are denying it.

...

You can see my shadow? What do you mean by that?

So ridiculous! Also you don't have light without shadow. It's true.

"Globalist utopians demand that we fall in line with their "cure" for climate change. Dr Jordan B Peterson explains why the goal of achieving net zero emissions by 2050 is absolutely preposterous."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--QS_UyW2SY

...

What part of my quote were you responding to?

Evil is not part of your nature? Your natural man isn't evil?

At times, I DO evil. It's not that I AM evil. If causing evil makes me evil, then I, being evil, was created by Heavenly Father and that would make him evil.

Harakim, I’m also curious what you think of these thoughts…

I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to understand all of that, but I can say a few things. My most terrifying dream had a dragon in it and I'd say the part about the dragon representing a side of you you can't face checks out.

I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

That's not what I asked you.

Is your natural man evil?

[EvanLM]

mine natural man is not evil . . but I can only speak for myself just saying

[Thinker]

With figures such as Gautama Buddha and Zoroaster/Zarathustra, I often wonder how much divine light and wisdom they received and how much was distorted. I have suggested elsewhere that Zoroaster may be a lost prophet of God whose teachings have been corrupted and perverted.

viewtopic.php?t=65938

I realize this ^ is from another thread but it’s so fitting here, especially considering how Zorastrian considers good and evil not external but internal, as Morgan Freeman interviews this Zorastrian man & explains…

https://youtu.be/eIabp3brgt8

The more people pretend evil is outside them, the more evil they seem to act. It’s like “Lord is it I?” kinda thing.

Also interesting in the video is their similarities with freemasonry/lds-temple clothing.

[Thinker]

....I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

So many fascinating things to think about! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Maybe we’re both - part of God & separate during this life. Isolation is often how major change & growth happen. Consider young adults moving out of their parents’ home, Abraham moving away, Mormons moving out west. If they hadn’t moved & been a bit isolated, they wouldn’t have changed & developed as they did. Yet, who we really are is not our bodies - not these temporary lives. Who we REALLY are is part of God - we all are so in that sense we are not ever alone. And maybe when we feel alone (even amidst people), it’s so poignant because it’s foreign to who we really are.

I liked what you mentioned, “Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us.” So true! Christ isn’t Jesus’s last name but what he became & urged us to become too. It may be right to consider he confronted his shadow & maybe humanity’s “collective shadow” through atoning in the garden of gesthemane. The opposite of taking response-ability is shifting it to make others pay (evil) - shadow work helps people stop doing that. Many of us can barely deal with our own stuff, but occasionally we are doing well enough to not only care for our own but also help bear another’s burdens.

I agree that doing things one knows to be wrong does not mean one IS evil, but that one is choosing evil. For some (I remember distinctly sensing this as a teen), we need to experience certain things before we understand & can empathize with others & live up to our potentials. I imagine it like a maze - or climbing a mountain - sometimes you have to go the opposite direction to make your way to the top. We’re works in progress - eventually in the eternal picture - everything works out.

Pretty mind boggling to contemplate that God created everything, including dark & evil. It all has purpose - like spiritual weights to help us become stronger. I like your analogy with navy seals… & seeing that you have more in you than you think!

The psychological shadow is not necessarily about good/evil - but what we see as good/bad. Eg., A man who - for years - believed being tough & mean was a “real man” - finally is in a position to be vulnerable & compassionate & is surprised he had it in him. His shadow or subconscious/unaware part of him was the more sensitive side that may cry etc.

Interesting you wrote: “The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.”
Yeah I think that’s kind of the shadow except there’s no need in becoming miserable to avoid it. The reason shedding light (awareness) on the shadow is so important is to live up to our potentials by being more whole - less extreme in one way or another. Shadow work - shining light/awareness on it may be uncomfortable at first but then is incredibly soothing & spiritually edifying.
“Ye shall know the truth & the truth shall set you free!”

[harakim]

If you say so. You have a shadow and we can see if even if you are denying it.

...

You can see my shadow? What do you mean by that?

So ridiculous! Also you don't have light without shadow. It's true.

"Globalist utopians demand that we fall in line with their "cure" for climate change. Dr Jordan B Peterson explains why the goal of achieving net zero emissions by 2050 is absolutely preposterous."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--QS_UyW2SY

...

What part of my quote were you responding to?

Evil is not part of your nature? Your natural man isn't evil?

At times, I DO evil. It's not that I AM evil. If causing evil makes me evil, then I, being evil, was created by Heavenly Father and that would make him evil.

Harakim, I’m also curious what you think of these thoughts…

I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to understand all of that, but I can say a few things. My most terrifying dream had a dragon in it and I'd say the part about the dragon representing a side of you you can't face checks out.

I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

That's not what I asked you.

Is your natural man evil?

What do you mean by natural man?

Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

The opposite can be true as well. During some SAS training some years ago, one or two people died. Now it's useful to the military have tough elite units, but it's also not useful to kill people before they go on the battlefield. If only because it deters recruits. In that case, it would have been a good thing if those people had given up... because it really achieved nothing.

That's a good thing to point out. It definitely is not always good to push yourself. You have to have periods where you can reflect and recover. I don't know that I would go so far as to say it achieved nothing. The other 1000 people (or however many) who pushed themselves got a lot of benefit. The risk for British defense is probably worth the reward. As for them, it's very hard to guess if they're okay with it. Their families are the biggest losers of all.

[Thinker]

This psychological analysis of the most recent Batman film was interesting in showing Wayne’s journey from being kind of angry & vengeful… to more just. It reminded me of repentance - but I think repentance is not always “stop doing this list of notorious sins.” Sinning is “missing the mark” & at the heart incorrect thinking (which precedes emotion & action). So repentance is getting closer to the mark/truth/GOoD & correcting how one thinks about & interprets things.

[nightlight]

If you say so. You have a shadow and we can see if even if you are denying it.

...

You can see my shadow? What do you mean by that?

So ridiculous! Also you don't have light without shadow. It's true.

"Globalist utopians demand that we fall in line with their "cure" for climate change. Dr Jordan B Peterson explains why the goal of achieving net zero emissions by 2050 is absolutely preposterous."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--QS_UyW2SY

...

What part of my quote were you responding to?

Evil is not part of your nature? Your natural man isn't evil?

At times, I DO evil. It's not that I AM evil. If causing evil makes me evil, then I, being evil, was created by Heavenly Father and that would make him evil.

Harakim, I’m also curious what you think of these thoughts…

I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to understand all of that, but I can say a few things. My most terrifying dream had a dragon in it and I'd say the part about the dragon representing a side of you you can't face checks out.

I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

That's not what I asked you.

Is your natural man evil?

What do you mean by natural man?

Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

The opposite can be true as well. During some SAS training some years ago, one or two people died. Now it's useful to the military have tough elite units, but it's also not useful to kill people before they go on the battlefield. If only because it deters recruits. In that case, it would have been a good thing if those people had given up... because it really achieved nothing.

That's a good thing to point out. It definitely is not always good to push yourself. You have to have periods where you can reflect and recover. I don't know that I would go so far as to say it achieved nothing. The other 1000 people (or however many) who pushed themselves got a lot of benefit. The risk for British defense is probably worth the reward. As for them, it's very hard to guess if they're okay with it. Their families are the biggest losers of all.

Do you believe the Book of Mormon and New testament? They explain it perfectly.

Now..... If you know what I'm talking about but you're playing silly word games with me

Your natural man is an enemy to God. Hence the need to be born again... Hence the need for a Savior.... Hence the reality that no matter what you do, you will always fall short.

Unless you're different? You've no need of forgiveness because your natural man isn't fallen?

Please explain

[EvanLM]

With figures such as Gautama Buddha and Zoroaster/Zarathustra, I often wonder how much divine light and wisdom they received and how much was distorted. I have suggested elsewhere that Zoroaster may be a lost prophet of God whose teachings have been corrupted and perverted.

viewtopic.php?t=65938

I realize this ^ is from another thread but it’s so fitting here, especially considering how Zorastrian considers good and evil not external but internal, as Morgan Freeman interviews this Zorastrian man & explains…

https://youtu.be/eIabp3brgt8

The more people pretend evil is outside them, the more evil they seem to act. It’s like “Lord is it I?” kinda thing.

Also interesting in the video is their similarities with freemasonry/lds-temple clothing.

that was referenced to betraying Christ . . . Christ said it himself . . .but posters on this forum take all kinds of liberties with the scriptures . . .

and the judgments on this forum from posters . . all the judgments . . . it is still not working on me

[EvanLM]

This psychological analysis of the most recent Batman film was interesting in showing Wayne’s journey from being kind of angry & vengeful… to more just. It reminded me of repentance - but I think repentance is not always “stop doing this list of notorious sins.” Sinning is “missing the mark” & at the heart incorrect thinking (which precedes emotion & action). So repentance is getting closer to the mark/truth/GOoD & correcting how one thinks about & interprets things.

seriously . . you quote shamelessly for the scriptures then attribute some great knowledge according to a movie? sorry . . I don't even watch movies let alone put some deep meaning to their stories but I'm sure the writer of this script would be flattered . . .

[EvanLM]

please send me to the reference in the scriptures that say God created evil . . . . This is news to me

[darknesstolight]

please send me to the reference in the scriptures that say God created evil . . . . This is news to me

If you deny the shadow in yourself how likely would it be that any scriptures given would satisfy?

Nobody has judged you. I have a shadow and I KNOW so do you and everyone, even the one mighty and strong has a shadow.

No person on this planet is favored by God on account of them existing or by any act of control of the flesh.

If you think you are more righteouss than your neighbor or even your enemy, that is a sure indicator that you are in fact blind to your wickedness and that's dangerous.

...

[harakim]

You can see my shadow? What do you mean by that?


What part of my quote were you responding to?



At times, I DO evil. It's not that I AM evil. If causing evil makes me evil, then I, being evil, was created by Heavenly Father and that would make him evil.



I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to understand all of that, but I can say a few things. My most terrifying dream had a dragon in it and I'd say the part about the dragon representing a side of you you can't face checks out.

I go back and forth if we were entirely created by the father/are a part of the father or if we were separately conscious, which I think is the church's position. If we are all one being or if the entire scene was created by Heavenly Father, then he runs through everything, including Satan. I think I've mentioned before that I believe the Christ Spirit is not limited to one human. We can all have the Spirit of Christ within us. We are supposedly the body of Christ right now and that makes sense. We do the physical works of Christ.

If I sleep around or steal and it IS a part of my character, I don't know that it's actually wrong. I wouldn't call it a shadow. I was made to be the way that I am on purpose, so I don't feel like I have something innately wrong with me. I might be fooled or make dumb choices and I definitely have a lot of learning and growing to do, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently evil.

The last part where the devil causes us to turn towards things we wouldn't normally have accepted - I have always thought that was divinity. I guess it could be Satan... If you allow it, you definitely end up places you didn't want to go but help you see yourself and be happy.

I have often said that whatever you can't accept is what will happen to you. I think whatever you say you would never become is often what you become. Is that what is being referred to as the shadow? I'm not really sure what the point of that principle is, but it does seem to be true. The "unthinkable wrong" is near certainly your destiny unless you become miserable avoiding it. It's cosmic irony.

I think Satan is a part of the plan. I don't see how he couldn't be. However, I don't think following him makes someone happy. Maybe he is some kind of driver in the same way that money drives people to produce more and do more than they would otherwise. It's not that the requirement of money is good or leads to a good outcome for an individual, but by everyone producing more, there is more to go around and it works out for everyone.
People need to be pushed to see what they are capable of. Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

One thing I can say is this thread has definitely made me interested in Carl Jung.

That's not what I asked you.

Is your natural man evil?

What do you mean by natural man?

Navy Seals say when you're ready to give up, you have only gone 40% as far as you can go. I have had experiences in my life where I had nothing left and I just kept going. I wouldn't do that for no reason and I wouldn't be as happy or content with my ability if I had not been pushed. I hope that last part makes sense. I think it's the only real insight I had on that discussion.

The opposite can be true as well. During some SAS training some years ago, one or two people died. Now it's useful to the military have tough elite units, but it's also not useful to kill people before they go on the battlefield. If only because it deters recruits. In that case, it would have been a good thing if those people had given up... because it really achieved nothing.

That's a good thing to point out. It definitely is not always good to push yourself. You have to have periods where you can reflect and recover. I don't know that I would go so far as to say it achieved nothing. The other 1000 people (or however many) who pushed themselves got a lot of benefit. The risk for British defense is probably worth the reward. As for them, it's very hard to guess if they're okay with it. Their families are the biggest losers of all.

Do you believe the Book of Mormon and New testament? They explain it perfectly.

Now..... If you know what I'm talking about but you're playing silly word games with me

Your natural man is an enemy to God. Hence the need to be born again... Hence the need for a Savior.... Hence the reality that no matter what you do, you will always fall short.

Unless you're different? You've no need of forgiveness because your natural man isn't fallen?

Please explain

Two words, rarely used, describing what I can only assume is a very complex topic will inevitably lead to a different meaning for each reader based on the context in which they are hearing the words. I don't even pretend to understand what the phrase "natural man" means in the scriptures, if it's meaning is consistent. I just looked it up on the church's website. Even in Mosiah it says the natural man needs to put off the natural man. Those don't mean the same thing. It looks like Paul is saying it as a general phrase encompassing everything someone does wrong. Combining that with Mosiah it seems like it's a person during the times he is doing wrong. In that case, I would have to think more.
I don't think someone that does evil IS evil, but then that comes to the definition of evil. Are they doing wrong? Are the inviting suffering into the world? both yes. Would the world be better off without them? Almost certainly not.
I hope you can understand it's a complex question and my answer is going to be based on a thousand assumptions. I don't agree the natural man is even an being of its own. So it would be like saying "is the world dirt?" Some of it is...
So I guess is the natural man evil, yes or no? I'll say yes.

[Niemand]

please send me to the reference in the scriptures that say God created evil . . . . This is news to me

God created this world, including the Devil. That simple. The Devil rebelled and made bad choices of his own accord, but he was still made by Heavenly Father.

2 Nephi 11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so…righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility. 12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God. 13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

[Thinker]

I realize this ^ is from another thread but it’s so fitting here, especially considering how Zorastrian considers good and evil not external but internal, as Morgan Freeman interviews this Zorastrian man & explains…

https://youtu.be/eIabp3brgt8

The more people pretend evil is outside them, the more evil they seem to act. It’s like “Lord is it I?” kinda thing.

Also interesting in the video is their similarities with freemasonry/lds-temple clothing.

that was referenced to betraying Christ . . . Christ said it himself . . .but posters on this forum take all kinds of liberties with the scriptures . . .

and the judgments on this forum from posters . . all the judgments . . . it is still not working on me

Someone else got mad at me for a similar reason & they said it was because there are too many things to study & they just wanted to stick with Mormon truth - not truth outside Mormonism. And they wanted me to do so also.

That’s having Mormonism as their false god, not the God of TRUTH.

Scriptures are writings of fallible people like us. Why deify their words? Because it makes us feel safe - like someone has got it figured out? But then we trust in flesh & not God.


Just to refresh your memory. Christ did not say “Lord is it I?” - His apostles did:

• ”And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
  22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?”- Matt 26

Each of his apostles DID end up betraying him, even if they later regained loyalty. So each one knew that within them there was that possibility & they were humble enough to admit it. Often, people want to point fingers rather than look within themselves. The psychological shadow is expressed via hypocritical projection - blaming others for what 1 has done or is doing - often subconsciously.

Evil is not so much sinning/imperfection - but it’s the denial of it & the attempt to make others pay instead of taking response-ability oneself.

[Thinker]

”The shadow is either an unconscious aspect of the personality that the conscious ego does not identify in itself, or the entirety of the unconscious; that is, everything of which a person is not fully conscious.”


The extremes of psychological projection (& refusing to address the shadow) is shown in sad cases like Chad & Lori Daybell… & this GA misrepresenting facts when it came to her grandchild being killed by homicide, according to records: viewtopic.php?p=1295676&hilit=Bonnie#p1295676

I’ve seen it in people I know who have done bad things that they refuse to admit & sometimes accuse others of doing what they did - & so they never truly repent or overcome their sins. This often pushes people away. There is this insistence of “saving face” - but often even their IDEA of looking good to others is so warped that they are clueless how much others see behind their facade. And it ends up backfiring - as people become shocked & want to avoid them, wondering what else they’re hiding.

Sometimes they haven’t done anything notoriously “wrong” except breaking the part of the greatest commandments about loving oneself.

Eg. A woman I know is often critical of others - partly due to her not asserting herself to her husband, mother-in-law & kids who all are critical of her. Instead of standing up when she is mistreated, she doesn’t even want to look closely at that - too painful & requires scary change - it’s easier to just shift all that to others. She can be quite rude and mean - which makes people not want to be around her. A case of “paying it forward” in a bad way… & a call for turning the other cheek or turning away from the bad cycle, & not repeating bad treatment.

It’s better to be honest & address whatever needs addressing (the need to be assertive, or take responsibility etc). Not to suggest we all have to bear our sins to everyone all of the time - but rather don’t misrepresent things, no lying or deceiving. We all screw up regularly - best to just acknowledge our own weaknesses & not try to pretend we’re perfect. Only when we humbly recognize our own shortfallings & ask God for help - then can our weaknesses be made strengths. But denial of our weaknesses & shifting blame keeps us dammed/stuck.

“What imperfection hates most is imperfection.”

The persona or mask portrayed to influence others’ opinions of oneself can be like an idol - and maintaining it is like their god or highest priority. When keeping up appearances (or even their own delusion) comes before everything else - even morality - it becomes evil - especially when shifting blame/responsibility.