Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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Thinker
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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harakim wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 12:29 amFor the most part, I don't blame others around me for stuff that I do. I do think I would excel a lot more if I could get over victimization. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I don't really know. I think I do victimize myself or I would be doing better in the things I think are important. And I think that's some kind of projection.
I can relate. I believe within us is a “higher knowing” - beyond life’s temporary challenges. And this higher perspective is more patient, knowing that sometimes you just have to FEEL and validate your own feelings about past traumas, before you can move on. I used to read a book to my kids that went, “can’t go over it, can’t go around it, gotta go through it.” Going through it can feel awful - so it’s no wonder it’s often avoided. But the “pearl of great price” is often found in the muck.

”Nobody can fall so low unless he has a great depth.
If such a thing can happen to a man, it challenges his best and highest on the other side; that is to say, this depth corresponds to a potential height, and the blackest darkness to a hidden light.” - C.G. Jung

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Original_Intent
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Original_Intent »

EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:40 am
Original_Intent wrote: October 16th, 2019, 6:51 pm I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him
I wouldn't have and I think this lets evil off the hook . . kinda like sympathy for the child rapist . . no and a lot of people have been tempted by this ev
il as you claim and they quit their job, got out of politics, became a whistleblower, or whatever rather than be a part of it. The only time a christian would be apart of it is when they are chained to it, like elizabeth Smart and she claims that she still maintained her virtue and thoughts in the midst of evil.

Jordan is a brainwasher who pays his bills? can't find truth when you keep agreeing with the brain washers
Were you raised exactly as they were? Do you live in exactly the same culture, with the same biases? The point Peterson is making is that if we were living in early 20th century Germany, chances are HUGE that we would have loved Hitler, just as he was lived by then-living Germans (other than Jews, of course, and a very few others) Sure we all like to think we would have been a Schindler or similar person, but for 99.9% of us, raised in that environment, it simply isn't true. At best we might have disagreed and kept our mouths shut.

That isn't to say that if you could be teleported as you are into that situation, that you wouldn't be a heroic example, but that's not the point JBP is making.
It doesn't let evil off the hook, it forces you to acknowledge that you have the same evil within you, and to try a little humility before you get too carried away judging history.

And if perhaps you have missed the point again, this isn't about Hitler, this is about the unwashed masses who either enthusiastically supported him or stayed silent because they liked living.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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Thinker wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 9:02 am
harakim wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 12:29 amFor the most part, I don't blame others around me for stuff that I do. I do think I would excel a lot more if I could get over victimization. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I don't really know. I think I do victimize myself or I would be doing better in the things I think are important. And I think that's some kind of projection.
I can relate. I believe within us is a “higher knowing” - beyond life’s temporary challenges. And this higher perspective is more patient, knowing that sometimes you just have to FEEL and validate your own feelings about past traumas, before you can move on. I used to read a book to my kids that went, “can’t go over it, can’t go around it, gotta go through it.” Going through it can feel awful - so it’s no wonder it’s often avoided. But the “pearl of great price” is often found in the muck.

”Nobody can fall so low unless he has a great depth.
If such a thing can happen to a man, it challenges his best and highest on the other side; that is to say, this depth corresponds to a potential height, and the blackest darkness to a hidden light.” - C.G. Jung
Jung also said, "No tree can reach heaven whose roots do not extend to hell." I <3 Jung.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Original_Intent wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 9:07 am
EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:40 am
Original_Intent wrote: October 16th, 2019, 6:51 pm I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him
I wouldn't have and I think this lets evil off the hook . . kinda like sympathy for the child rapist . . no and a lot of people have been tempted by this ev
il as you claim and they quit their job, got out of politics, became a whistleblower, or whatever rather than be a part of it. The only time a christian would be apart of it is when they are chained to it, like elizabeth Smart and she claims that she still maintained her virtue and thoughts in the midst of evil.

Jordan is a brainwasher who pays his bills? can't find truth when you keep agreeing with the brain washers
Were you raised exactly as they were? Do you live in exactly the same culture, with the same biases? The point Peterson is making is that if we were living in early 20th century Germany, chances are HUGE that we would have loved Hitler, just as he was lived by then-living Germans (other than Jews, of course, and a very few others) Sure we all like to think we would have been a Schindler or similar person, but for 99.9% of us, raised in that environment, it simply isn't true. At best we might have disagreed and kept our mouths shut.

That isn't to say that if you could be teleported as you are into that situation, that you wouldn't be a heroic example, but that's not the point JBP is making.
It doesn't let evil off the hook, it forces you to acknowledge that you have the same evil within you, and to try a little humility before you get too carried away judging history.

And if perhaps you have missed the point again, this isn't about Hitler, this is about the unwashed masses who either enthusiastically supported him or stayed silent because they liked living.
I didn't miss the point, I claimed that Jordan Peterson was wrong. first example, abraham who was raised by a idol worshipping father.

second example Cain, who was raised by a righteous man with no social influence. Third Nephi, Laman and Lemuel and Jacob all left social pressures and raised in the end without social life. all chose differently. Laman and Lemuel even threatened murder. . . .and cain did it . . .who influenced them, especially Cain to do murder?

of course, I am assuming that you are COJCLDS and are acquainted with the scriptures. . . when the voices of men seem reasonable it does me good to refer to scriptures that are sanctioned by God to find the true answer . . sorry to use those examples cuz I am not sure Jordan believes in scriptures or God. so could be unfair comparison to him if he doesn't know scripture

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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oh yeah, abraham was exposed to legal murder . . . sacrafices were legal murder just like abortion is

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

after reading your post to me: and, Cain, Laman, Lemuel, abrahams father all had followers and generational wickedness even the desire to kill their cousins . . .some repented

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Original_Intent
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Original_Intent »

EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 9:48 am
Original_Intent wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 9:07 am
EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 8:40 am
Original_Intent wrote: October 16th, 2019, 6:51 pm I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him
I wouldn't have and I think this lets evil off the hook . . kinda like sympathy for the child rapist . . no and a lot of people have been tempted by this ev
il as you claim and they quit their job, got out of politics, became a whistleblower, or whatever rather than be a part of it. The only time a christian would be apart of it is when they are chained to it, like elizabeth Smart and she claims that she still maintained her virtue and thoughts in the midst of evil.

Jordan is a brainwasher who pays his bills? can't find truth when you keep agreeing with the brain washers
Were you raised exactly as they were? Do you live in exactly the same culture, with the same biases? The point Peterson is making is that if we were living in early 20th century Germany, chances are HUGE that we would have loved Hitler, just as he was lived by then-living Germans (other than Jews, of course, and a very few others) Sure we all like to think we would have been a Schindler or similar person, but for 99.9% of us, raised in that environment, it simply isn't true. At best we might have disagreed and kept our mouths shut.

That isn't to say that if you could be teleported as you are into that situation, that you wouldn't be a heroic example, but that's not the point JBP is making.
It doesn't let evil off the hook, it forces you to acknowledge that you have the same evil within you, and to try a little humility before you get too carried away judging history.

And if perhaps you have missed the point again, this isn't about Hitler, this is about the unwashed masses who either enthusiastically supported him or stayed silent because they liked living.
I didn't miss the point, I claimed that Jordan Peterson was wrong. first example, abraham who was raised by a idol worshipping father.

second example Cain, who was raised by a righteous man with no social influence. Third Nephi, Laman and Lemuel and Jacob all left social pressures and raised in the end without social life. all chose differently. Laman and Lemuel even threatened murder. . . .and cain did it . . .who influenced them, especially Cain to do murder?

of course, I am assuming that you are COJCLDS and are acquainted with the scriptures. . . when the voices of men seem reasonable it does me good to refer to scriptures that are sanctioned by God to find the true answer . . sorry to use those examples cuz I am not sure Jordan believes in scriptures or God. so could be unfair comparison to him if he doesn't know scripture
Jordan Peterson became well known due to his Lectures on the Old Testament. I'm not saying this to be rude, but you are simply showing your ignorance, you are spouting off about things that you know very little.

Even your scriptural examples that you think proves your point only display the very shallow understanding you have about shadow and everything to do with Jung or Peterson.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Original_Intent »

I will give you a heads up that JBP is very cagey about his own religious beliefs, but that he emphasizes over and over the importance of the Bible to civilization.

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Niemand
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Niemand »

Nietzsche was wrong about many things but right about some others:
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.
He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
Sometimes "monster" is translated "dragon" which is not literal from the German but conveys the sense.

Very few people can fight monsters or look into the proverbial Abyss without becoming corrupted themselves unless they have incredible self-awareness, spiritual development and control.

It's like a more modern saying about wrestling with pigs in the mud... you get dirty and the pig may even enjoy it.

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John Tavner
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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Niemand wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 10:28 am Nietzsche was wrong about many things but right about some others:
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.
He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
Sometimes "monster" is translated "dragon" which is not literal from the German but conveys the sense.

Very few people can fight monsters or look into the proverbial Abyss without becoming corrupted themselves unless they have incredible self-awareness, spiritual development and control.

It's like a more modern saying about wrestling with pigs in the mud... you get dirty and the pig may even enjoy it.
One of my favorite quotes- and I find it to be true.The point isn't about fighting the monsters, ever. It is about becoming - it is changing - in the changing we fight monsters, but when the focus and purpose becomes only fighting monsters and we lose sight of Christ - who came so that we might bear His name and be Holy as He was- then we often become the monster ourselves - though the journey started with righteous intentions it ended in a hell of our own making - our own self-righteousness caught up to us as we sought more to prove what was right and wrong rather than making what was wrong, righteous.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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If you deny your shadow or are not aware of it then in all likelihood you are one of the people capable of committing all the atrocities ever committed.

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both.

...

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by darknesstolight »

There is no life without death here on this Earth. All things that are alive today are alive because something died. Something always has to die in order to keep something else alive. The soil is made up of dead things and from it arises life.

You can take this to any level and find it is true. Without Chaos there is no Order.

The shadow, the hidden part, what's underneath, that part we as humans ignore and try to hide, the deep down low down dirt, it's foundational to all that we do and without that deep down, underneath, the abyss, the shadow, the depths, there would be no surface. Nothing of substance.

You can't deny a part of who you really are and be whole, perfect, or well and healthy spiritually and emotionally. The TRUTH will set you free and the Truth is that you are both light and darkness.

...

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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darknesstolight wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 1:06 pm If you deny your shadow or are not aware of it then in all likelihood you are one of the people capable of committing all the atrocities ever committed.

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both.

...
Is your user name in reference to this?

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Original_Intent wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 10:15 am I will give you a heads up that JBP is very cagey about his own religious beliefs, but that he emphasizes over and over the importance of the Bible to civilization.
lots of people claim to read the bible but I still disagree with the conclusion that he draws and I think he is wrong in this issue. I have offered proof and you just want me to agree with you and no proof from real life.

I see your gang is attacking me . . .secret plan to kill evan . . . but this is real good practice for when I actually face people with brains to think for themself

btw I am right on this one even though I don't have a groomed moustache, hair and no good looking clothes

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

I couldsprobably agree with some of Jordan's other points but no this one. Too much history to prove different

btw this is milk . . not too deep,. really

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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I was analyzed many days through a 9 month period by a forensic psychologist and she said she could find no dark in me. I found that kinda funny but

it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people

there are many who just walk away from evil leaving behind, jobs, friends, families, etc. I know some of those people

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Niemand wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:30 pm
darknesstolight wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 1:06 pm If you deny your shadow or are not aware of it then in all likelihood you are one of the people capable of committing all the atrocities ever committed.

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both.

...
Is your user name in reference to this?
this is what satanists currently believe and teach and worship. They believe that lucifer really save mortals cuz he provided the evil that has to exist for them to see light. He is leading them to light through the evil.

You are preaching satanism. If it hasn't been deleted I can probably find a satan worship book that states just that

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Niemand »

EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:47 pm it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people
Many people who do evil do not think they are doing so. The recent Covid malarkey is one example, people thinking that they were protecting others when they attacked those without masks or jags.
EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:50 pm
Niemand wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:30 pm
darknesstolight wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 1:06 pm If you deny your shadow or are not aware of it then in all likelihood you are one of the people capable of committing all the atrocities ever committed.

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both.

...
Is your user name in reference to this?
this is what satanists currently believe and teach and worship. They believe that lucifer really save mortals cuz he provided the evil that has to exist for them to see light. He is leading them to light through the evil.

You are preaching satanism. If it hasn't been deleted I can probably find a satan worship book that states just that
Which of us are you referring to?

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Chip
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Chip »

EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:47 pm I was analyzed many days through a 9 month period by a forensic psychologist and she said she could find no dark in me. I found that kinda funny but

it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people

there are many who just walk away from evil leaving behind, jobs, friends, families, etc. I know some of those people

I have a friend who went berserk with delusions that people were trying to kill him. He wound up in a mental facility for two weeks. After he got out, he said things like, "Pffff.... They ALL KNEW that there was nothing wrong with me. They knew it was all BS." He thought he was the master of the situation.

All of this guy's episodes are overlapped with periods of heavy marijuana usage.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both. this comment is satanism

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Chip wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm
EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:47 pm I was analyzed many days through a 9 month period by a forensic psychologist and she said she could find no dark in me. I found that kinda funny but

it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people

there are many who just walk away from evil leaving behind, jobs, friends, families, etc. I know some of those people

I have a friend who went berserk with delusions that people were trying to kill him. He wound up in a mental facility for two weeks. After he got out, he said things like, "Pffff.... They ALL KNEW that there was nothing wrong with me. They knew it was all BS." He thought he was the master of the situation.

All of this guy's episodes are overlapped with periods of heavy marijuana usage.
feel sorry for your friend but look what he did for you . . .you get to be better than again . . . I wonder if he knew that you would throw him under the bus for some points on a post . . . you get the points. . .winner ding ding ding

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Chip wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm
EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:47 pm I was analyzed many days through a 9 month period by a forensic psychologist and she said she could find no dark in me. I found that kinda funny but

it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people

there are many who just walk away from evil leaving behind, jobs, friends, families, etc. I know some of those people

I have a friend who went berserk with delusions that people were trying to kill him. He wound up in a mental facility for two weeks. After he got out, he said things like, "Pffff.... They ALL KNEW that there was nothing wrong with me. They knew it was all BS." He thought he was the master of the situation.

All of this guy's episodes are overlapped with periods of heavy marijuana usage.
I also apprerciate your pessimistic posts that show how you feel about humanity . . .I mean regarding them being stupider than you and worse than you and all going to hell in a handbasket . . I really don't feel like countering with optimism . . you win . . .points ding ding plunk

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Chip
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Chip »

.
Last edited by Chip on September 5th, 2022, 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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darknesstolight
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by darknesstolight »

Niemand wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:30 pm
darknesstolight wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 1:06 pm If you deny your shadow or are not aware of it then in all likelihood you are one of the people capable of committing all the atrocities ever committed.

You are not just light, you are also shadow. There is no thing without both.

...
Is your user name in reference to this?
It is a reference to the idea that although at one point I lived in darkness I am now living in light through Christ.

I used to live in a spiritual darkness, a spirit prison, unaware of my own drunkenness and very much ignorant to my own darkside. Since I have come to know Christ and been "born again" I can now see how God was shaping me through all the dark times and it is the negative experiences of my life that have made me who I am.

The negative things, the dark things, the shadow has a purpose. A seed grows best in a sea of dead matter without any light until it spouts out a new things from it but the relationship with the earth and the deep dark sea of dead things doesn't end when the sprout shoots out of the ground, it continues as the roots dig deeper and deeper towards less light and more darkness allowing the sprout to become larger and stronger. Without the roots going deep enough in to the dark the plant can't grow enough or reach its potential.

So my user name is a reflection of my journey from hell to light but also a reflection of the relationship between the two and how the two are really one.

...

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darknesstolight
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by darknesstolight »

EvanLM wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 3:47 pm I was analyzed many days through a 9 month period by a forensic psychologist and she said she could find no dark in me. I found that kinda funny but

it means that I have no desire to do evil . . . I am also truthful and transparent hmmmmm I believe her and believe this can be true for many people

there are many who just walk away from evil leaving behind, jobs, friends, families, etc. I know some of those people
If you ever feel anxious, afraid, scared, angry, frustrated, or paranoid that someone is "gang attacking you" and other negative emotions, then it is because of the shadow inside of you.

Everyone has a shadow and if you think you don't then its a high probability that you are a part of the problem.

...

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