Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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Thinker
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Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Thinker »

God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by MMbelieve »

The human psyche and experience is quite interesting. Projection happens often and it becomes easier to see as time goes. I have projected and when realized I just did that, I chuckle a little at myself because it really is interesting to see and experience it playing out and then of course feel foolish. We do learn a lot through interactions with others about OURSELVES.

One thing I am seeing more and more is that what we see in others is actually more telling of ourselves than of them. It’s how someone can get seemingly attacked by someone else and have no idea what they are talking about or what their issue is.

I think we all do these things from time to time such as project but also gaslight and something that seems narcissistic or manipulative It’s human nature and quite normal unless done often.

Do you think it’s got anything to do directly with the light of Christ with us and the level at which we obtain it that determines how self aware that we as humans become?

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by larsenb »

Its one of the identified standard psychological defense mechanisms. We attack in others what we don't like in ourselves, normally in a subconscious manner.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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MMbelieve wrote: October 16th, 2019, 5:40 pm... Projection happens often and it becomes easier to see as time goes. I have projected and when realized I just did that, I chuckle a little at myself because it really is interesting to see and experience it playing out and then of course feel foolish. We do learn a lot through interactions with others about OURSELVES...

Do you think it’s got anything to do directly with the light of Christ with us and the level at which we obtain it that determines how self aware that we as humans become?
Well put... and it’s good to see someone else have similar experience and have humor about it too! :)

Yes, I do think this has a lot to do with the light of Christ. I believe Christ showed us how important this is.

Jordan Peterson lays out how incorporating the shadow actually helps us be a greater force for good and less of a force for evil. Christ taught that the meek will inherit the earth - but the original word translated to meek actually meant sheathed (covered) sword - someone who has the ability to fight but has the self control not to unless it’s necessary. Incorporating shadow (ie a passive person being more assertive) is part of this.
What do you think?

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Thinker »

larsenb wrote: October 16th, 2019, 5:49 pm Its one of the identified standard psychological defense mechanisms. We attack in others what we don't like in ourselves, normally in a subconscious manner.
That sums it up well!
It’s so much easier to critique others than it is ourselves.
Catching the projection (hypocrisy) and owning it - is what matters.

“In each of us is a bit of all of us.”
That sounds simple - until you consider people who have done horrible things. I have not done what they have but maybe to a lesser degree &/or if I were in their shoes - raised by their parents, have their mental health etc, maybe I would.

It’s humbling to realize some parts of life are beyond my control. I’m not suggesting determinism - but more like free will within a certain window of probability. This is good to remember when I start to harshly judge others.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Original_Intent »

I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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Original_Intent wrote: October 16th, 2019, 6:51 pm I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him
Great! I’m glad you’re familiar with JP & I agree about judging righteously.

Judging is important - to discern good from evil, health from sickness. Yet, to condemn someone as no good is not appropriate. We all come from God so all have inherent good - some seem to have more bad than others - but we don’t see as God sees. I saw a video online of an ex - who I know has lied, stole and cheated & I was beginning to judge him as full of it, and as bad... but I felt the spirit and thought of how through his negative experiences/sins, he’s helped a lot of people - like ex-cons - and many who were very lost and needed help.


I’m not sure how shadow work applies to the dark night of the soul, but they seem related. It’s tough work! When I first had a faith crisis - and started to wake up - I was learning and growing so fast! I felt like I was making quantum leaps - came to see in such new ways so quickly! Now, and for a while, I’ve been slogging through trenches of the shadow. “Feelings buried alive never die” - and so I’ve been having to deal with lots of buried emotions and thoughts attached to them. But as I do, I feel a bit lighter, see more clearly and feel an increased capacity to love better.

Yet... (& this is what motivated this thread), I have been more aware of the negatives in myself and in others. For survival purposes, pain and threats tend to take our attention much more than positives. I have sensed the need to train my mind to look for and focus more on the positive, without forgetting the negatives.

Have you, or anyone else, had experience with this?

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Thinker »

I forgot from who I noted this quote:
  • “Integrate your shadow or else evil spirits will rule you.”

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by PickleRick »

Thinker wrote: October 18th, 2019, 3:51 pm I forgot from who I noted this quote:
  • “Integrate your shadow or else evil spirits will rule you.”
That sounds awfully Jordan Peterson-esque.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
I had a friend for about 18 years. One day he went on a tirade telling me everything that was wrong with me. He was very hateful in his tone of voice. I sat and listened. I know my faults. And nothing he described pertained to me but he was describing himself perfectly. We stopped being friends that day. I have seen this behavior in others but not to such a great extent. Anyway, I do not project and never have. There is nothing in my nature that would cause me to project my faults onto others. Quite the opposite. Often when I have to listen to someone ranting judgmentally about another person and a certain trait is mentioned that applies to me as well then I will speak up in the other person's defence, "Well, I suffer from a bit of that myself, no one is perfect". This is the first time I have heard about this shadow. I do not seem to have a shadow in that sense.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Thinker »

Michael Sherwin wrote: October 18th, 2019, 4:26 pm
Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
I had a friend for about 18 years. One day he went on a tirade telling me everything that was wrong with me. He was very hateful in his tone of voice. I sat and listened. I know my faults. And nothing he described pertained to me but he was describing himself perfectly. We stopped being friends that day. I have seen this behavior in others but not to such a great extent. Anyway, I do not project and never have. There is nothing in my nature that would cause me to project my faults onto others. Quite the opposite. Often when I have to listen to someone ranting judgmentally about another person and a certain trait is mentioned that applies to me as well then I will speak up in the other person's defence, "Well, I suffer from a bit of that myself, no one is perfect". This is the first time I have heard about this shadow. I do not seem to have a shadow in that sense.
I know what you mean - I’ve had similar experiences. In fact, earlier today - I called someone out for another time of trying to blame me when someone else subtly blamed him. This has happened many times before, yet he still refuses to see it.

Since I was a child, I’ve been quite introspective & consider myself quite self aware. Yet, I still have a shadow - there are still parts of me that haven’t come fully into light. Eg: I know I have several life traps (https://www.tunnelukkosi.fi/en/lifetraps.htm), which I’m working on. Still, sometimes I find myself overreacting emotionally - feeling extra scared, sad, angry, etc. It’s because some event triggered something from my past that I haven’t completely healed.

That’s good you realize your weaknesses. Because of that you probably have less in the dark, but IMO, you still have some - all do. Everyone has life traps because no parents nor childhoods are perfect. And thus, at times everyone gets triggered and has some shadow issues that haven’t been brought fully to light. Do you know which life traps do you have & when have you been triggered/overreacted?

  • "Show me a sane man and I will cure him..." - Carl Jung
This suggests, at least IMO, that even the most sane/mentally healthy person is human and has potential all humans have. Lurking - even if dormant - in each of us is an array of emotions and thoughts &, under certain circumstances, we each could go insane - so we shouldn’t be too quick to judge others, who share our human potential.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Thinker wrote: October 18th, 2019, 8:24 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: October 18th, 2019, 4:26 pm
Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
I had a friend for about 18 years. One day he went on a tirade telling me everything that was wrong with me. He was very hateful in his tone of voice. I sat and listened. I know my faults. And nothing he described pertained to me but he was describing himself perfectly. We stopped being friends that day. I have seen this behavior in others but not to such a great extent. Anyway, I do not project and never have. There is nothing in my nature that would cause me to project my faults onto others. Quite the opposite. Often when I have to listen to someone ranting judgmentally about another person and a certain trait is mentioned that applies to me as well then I will speak up in the other person's defence, "Well, I suffer from a bit of that myself, no one is perfect". This is the first time I have heard about this shadow. I do not seem to have a shadow in that sense.
I know what you mean - I’ve had similar experiences. In fact, earlier today - I called someone out for another time of trying to blame me when someone else subtly blamed him. This has happened many times before, yet he still refuses to see it.

Since I was a child, I’ve been quite introspective & consider myself quite self aware. Yet, I still have a shadow - there are still parts of me that haven’t come fully into light. Eg: I know I have several life traps (https://www.tunnelukkosi.fi/en/lifetraps.htm), which I’m working on. Still, sometimes I find myself overreacting emotionally - feeling extra scared, sad, angry, etc. It’s because some event triggered something from my past that I haven’t completely healed.

That’s good you realize your weaknesses. Because of that you probably have less in the dark, but IMO, you still have some - all do. Everyone has life traps because no parents nor childhoods are perfect. And thus, at times everyone gets triggered and has some shadow issues that haven’t been brought fully to light. Do you know which life traps do you have & when have you been triggered/overreacted?

  • "Show me a sane man and I will cure him..." - Carl Jung
This suggests, at least IMO, that even the most sane/mentally healthy person is human and has potential all humans have. Lurking - even if dormant - in each of us is an array of emotions and thoughts &, under certain circumstances, we each could go insane - so we shouldn’t be too quick to judge others, who share our human potential.
18 LIFETRAPS
1. SUBJUGATION: Is virtuous if not overdone. You cannot be a servant of the Lord without subjugating yourself to the needs of others. The meek will inherit the earth. But, allowing oneself to be "steamrollered" helps no one.

2. EMOTIONAL INHIBITION: In many circumstances with many people it is simply not prudent to express emotions. If keeping emotions in causes one to become a "pressure boiler" it is not a lifetrap but rather would be a defect of a psychological nature that one should seek treatment for.

3. FAILURE: This can be a legitimate life trap. However, it is not a lifetrap to know ones limitations and make life decisions accordingly.

4. ABANDONMENT: It happens. It is part of life for a lot of people due to no fault of their own. However, "You fear being left alone and will probably stick to your close people, but at the same time expel them from you – your worst fear is like a self-fulfilling prophecy." This is not a lifetrap in the sense that a person makes a simple mistake because of some experience or fear. It is a psychosis that one should seek help for.

5. APPROVAL SEEKING: There is nothing wrong with seeking approval. Everyone needs validation at sometime that they are doing something right or helpful. Otherwise one wonders why they are doing what they are doing. It can be overdone though and that enters the realm of being a psychosis and therefore is a mental illness and not a simple lifetrap.

6. ABUSE: This is way to big of a domain to be categorized as a monatomic -- "the capacity of one person or thing to react with or affect another in some special way, as by attraction or the facilitation of a function or activity" -- to label it simply as a lifetrap.

7. ENMESHMENT: This is a combination of the above and has no independent expression.

8. ENTITLEMENT: Some people are selfish. To call it a lifetrap misses the mark. It is not an A vs. B decision. It is just the way they are.

9. PESSIMISM: Same as FAILURE above.

10. PUNITIVENESS: If overdone to the point of harming oneself it becomes a psychosis. The lifetrap if there is one is not being hard enough on one's self.

11. DEPENDENCE: Not everyone is created equal. Some people have to depend on others to survive. The lifetrap is not living up to one's potential if that potential exist.

12. INSUFFICIENT SELF-CONTROL: Once again this is such a huge domain that to label it a lifetrap is well, insufficient.

13. VULNERABILITY: This is a combination of most of the above. It has no independent realization.

14. EMOTIONAL DEPRIVATION: Once again this is several of the above and is a psychosis and not a simple lifetrap.

15. SELF-SACRIFICE: Nothing new here either.

16. SOCIAL ISOLATION: Being a loner is not a lifetrap. It is not something a person choses. They are or they aren't. A loner can make a conscious attempt to be more extroverted and sometimes they succeed but most of the time they retreat back into their solitude. Often finding people with the same interest is all it takes, like joining a chess club or a dance studio.

17. UNRELENTING STANDARDS: The lifetrap with most people is that their standards are not high enough. There is nothing wrong with holding yourself to the highest standard as can be attained. However, when one starts to judge others according to the life standard that they personally have achieved then it becomes a lifetrap.

18. DEFECTIVENESS: Nothing new here. Has been covered in several of the above.

What is a lifetrap? A lifetrap is falling into a situation that could have been avoided. It involves making wrong choices. Living above one's means and going into unsustainable debt is a most common lifetrap. Having the mental acuity to avoid getting addicted to drugs and becoming addicted anyway is a lifetrap because a choice has to be made. Some people have no ability to make an avoidance decision because they will do whatever their friend(s) are doing. It is not a lifetrap for them. It just is. I'm not saying that the above are not real. They are real. It is just that they do not fit in a rational decision making framework. Most, if not all, of the above have to do with psychological deficiencies and many with mental illness. People do not chose to have a psychosis, or worse, a mental illness. And to call these lifetraps is just erroneous.

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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Fiannan »

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Juliet
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Juliet »

I do believe I have been surprised in my own walk with the Lord to learn that even Jesus has emotions. He has total control over them, but He uses the full range.

I used to be a cna and sometimes there are exercises to help people. They are called the range of motion exercises that just consisted of moving all the major body parts several times to keep them fluid so they don't get stiff and trapped in a smaller range then what they are capable of moving if they just practiced using their full range of motion.

Isn't that an interesting thing. If you don't use your full range of motion, you lose it.

I would say the same thing goes for our emotions. All of our emotions are important. It is interesting to observe oneself or people in general and notice how often we tell ourselves or the people around us to stop whatever they are doing. Not because it is against any of the ten commandments, but because it seems to have crossed an imaginary line. Hardly anyone cries publicly, except in sacremt meeting. No one howls. There is this deadness. Children are punished for screaming when lots of times it's all they know how to do to release the tension in their nerves. I think our society has held in it's feelings to the extreme. When times come that call on our ability to process the whole range of emotions, which is what grief does, it breaks up the dams in our soul and makes our feelings hurt enough to get moving again; we may find ourselves unable to handle the energy we are given in order to stay alive.

This is why our civil laws must allow freedom. Our emotions are not there just to make us feel good. If you can't express pain, then you will dissociate it. And then you cannot learn from it.

In witchcraft, they have the pentagon mapped out over nodes of the brain. The nodes of the pentagram target the spots on the brain that turn off pain (the bottom right node I think) and that discern pleasure (the bottom left node). By manipulating these and the rest of the nodes for visual and verbal on and off nodes, you can hijack someone's mind to where they feel pleasure when they should not and pain when they should not. Imagine living life hooked up to constant anesthesia. Could you learn to walk under that manipulation? No. Nor can people who are put under these spells to target their brain. The ability to learn from pain keeps us alive physically and morally.

We came here to experience the full range of emotion. We also are given freedom. Both things require effort on our part so as not to lose them. Both are very important to happiness.

I believe all mental Illness comes down to the point where pain appeared to be too large to integrate with the brain. Because of fear, our brain stops experiencing the full range of emotion. When we go to church and feel the Spirit while listening or participating; many times the Holy Spirit works to press on those dark spots in our souls, where we experienced pain but grew hard so as not to feel it. When we choose to feel it, it brings a release and a rush of the spirit. Many times it feels so immensly good. That is why Jesus is the great physician as He can get us feeling again when our hearts are hard.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Some very wonderful things have been said in this thread and, certainly, I am grateful for all who have commented and brought further "truths" to light. The thing that is witnessed to me is that it seems that everyone has their own "language" and way to be instructed. It is gratifying to see growth in others - as you see it, it makes you want to do and be better, as well. These things merit discussion. I particularly like the statement, "Within each of us is some of all of us." We are related! To me, this is why I have come to learn that the greatest vision that someone can have is "in-sight." I think is it so vital to always examine yourself during "disturbances in the force." ;)

I, too, appreciated that picture and quote about darkness: "The brighter the light, the darker the shadow." It reinforced the realization of the tremendous responsibility we have to be aware. I like that statement because, the brighter the light - the more that has been overcome, but, too, the more knowledge is gained about corruption and opposites. I remember that there was something that was said about the Savior and I believe it was from Brigham Young?? that had He failed His mission, He would have become a son of perdition.

The pentagram comment was something that I was completely unaware of in terms of "overlay." Wow!!

My thoughts have centered upon the statement, "The price of freedom is vigilance." The bonus side of that is the more that one receives light in such exchanges as this thread, the greater the awareness becomes, and, therefore, the more vigilant a person can become.

Many answers are given as we gaze upon the water of "reflection." (Water is and has always been a significant thing. Back in the "day," it was used in cinema to represent memories and dreams. It is the symbol of re-birth.)
(Edited due to serendipitous circumstances . . . in reference to "water" being very significant - we find it present in the "spiritual creation" as being divided to create a firmament . . . a "key" given is a "key" shared:)
Last edited by BruceRGilbert on October 19th, 2019, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Thinker
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Thinker »

Michael Sherwin wrote: October 19th, 2019, 1:06 am
Thinker wrote: October 18th, 2019, 8:24 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: October 18th, 2019, 4:26 pm
Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
I had a friend for about 18 years. One day he went on a tirade telling me everything that was wrong with me. He was very hateful in his tone of voice. I sat and listened. I know my faults. And nothing he described pertained to me but he was describing himself perfectly. We stopped being friends that day. I have seen this behavior in others but not to such a great extent. Anyway, I do not project and never have. There is nothing in my nature that would cause me to project my faults onto others. Quite the opposite. Often when I have to listen to someone ranting judgmentally about another person and a certain trait is mentioned that applies to me as well then I will speak up in the other person's defence, "Well, I suffer from a bit of that myself, no one is perfect". This is the first time I have heard about this shadow. I do not seem to have a shadow in that sense.
I know what you mean - I’ve had similar experiences. In fact, earlier today - I called someone out for another time of trying to blame me when someone else subtly blamed him. This has happened many times before, yet he still refuses to see it.

Since I was a child, I’ve been quite introspective & consider myself quite self aware. Yet, I still have a shadow - there are still parts of me that haven’t come fully into light. Eg: I know I have several life traps (https://www.tunnelukkosi.fi/en/lifetraps.htm), which I’m working on. Still, sometimes I find myself overreacting emotionally - feeling extra scared, sad, angry, etc. It’s because some event triggered something from my past that I haven’t completely healed.

That’s good you realize your weaknesses. Because of that you probably have less in the dark, but IMO, you still have some - all do. Everyone has life traps because no parents nor childhoods are perfect. And thus, at times everyone gets triggered and has some shadow issues that haven’t been brought fully to light. Do you know which life traps do you have & when have you been triggered/overreacted?

  • "Show me a sane man and I will cure him..." - Carl Jung
This suggests, at least IMO, that even the most sane/mentally healthy person is human and has potential all humans have. Lurking - even if dormant - in each of us is an array of emotions and thoughts &, under certain circumstances, we each could go insane - so we shouldn’t be too quick to judge others, who share our human potential.
18 LIFETRAPS
1. SUBJUGATION: Is virtuous if not overdone. You cannot be a servant of the Lord without subjugating yourself to the needs of others. The meek will inherit the earth. But, allowing oneself to be "steamrollered" helps no one.

2. EMOTIONAL INHIBITION: In many circumstances with many people it is simply not prudent to express emotions. If keeping emotions in causes one to become a "pressure boiler" it is not a lifetrap but rather would be a defect of a psychological nature that one should seek treatment for.

3. FAILURE: This can be a legitimate life trap. However, it is not a lifetrap to know ones limitations and make life decisions accordingly.

4. ABANDONMENT: It happens. It is part of life for a lot of people due to no fault of their own. However, "You fear being left alone and will probably stick to your close people, but at the same time expel them from you – your worst fear is like a self-fulfilling prophecy." This is not a lifetrap in the sense that a person makes a simple mistake because of some experience or fear. It is a psychosis that one should seek help for.

5. APPROVAL SEEKING: There is nothing wrong with seeking approval. Everyone needs validation at sometime that they are doing something right or helpful. Otherwise one wonders why they are doing what they are doing. It can be overdone though and that enters the realm of being a psychosis and therefore is a mental illness and not a simple lifetrap.

6. ABUSE: This is way to big of a domain to be categorized as a monatomic -- "the capacity of one person or thing to react with or affect another in some special way, as by attraction or the facilitation of a function or activity" -- to label it simply as a lifetrap.

7. ENMESHMENT: This is a combination of the above and has no independent expression.

8. ENTITLEMENT: Some people are selfish. To call it a lifetrap misses the mark. It is not an A vs. B decision. It is just the way they are.

9. PESSIMISM: Same as FAILURE above.

10. PUNITIVENESS: If overdone to the point of harming oneself it becomes a psychosis. The lifetrap if there is one is not being hard enough on one's self.

11. DEPENDENCE: Not everyone is created equal. Some people have to depend on others to survive. The lifetrap is not living up to one's potential if that potential exist.

12. INSUFFICIENT SELF-CONTROL: Once again this is such a huge domain that to label it a lifetrap is well, insufficient.

13. VULNERABILITY: This is a combination of most of the above. It has no independent realization.

14. EMOTIONAL DEPRIVATION: Once again this is several of the above and is a psychosis and not a simple lifetrap.

15. SELF-SACRIFICE: Nothing new here either.

16. SOCIAL ISOLATION: Being a loner is not a lifetrap. It is not something a person choses. They are or they aren't. A loner can make a conscious attempt to be more extroverted and sometimes they succeed but most of the time they retreat back into their solitude. Often finding people with the same interest is all it takes, like joining a chess club or a dance studio.

17. UNRELENTING STANDARDS: The lifetrap with most people is that their standards are not high enough. There is nothing wrong with holding yourself to the highest standard as can be attained. However, when one starts to judge others according to the life standard that they personally have achieved then it becomes a lifetrap.

18. DEFECTIVENESS: Nothing new here. Has been covered in several of the above.

What is a lifetrap? A lifetrap is falling into a situation that could have been avoided. It involves making wrong choices. Living above one's means and going into unsustainable debt is a most common lifetrap. Having the mental acuity to avoid getting addicted to drugs and becoming addicted anyway is a lifetrap because a choice has to be made. Some people have no ability to make an avoidance decision because they will do whatever their friend(s) are doing. It is not a lifetrap for them. It just is. I'm not saying that the above are not real. They are real. It is just that they do not fit in a rational decision making framework. Most, if not all, of the above have to do with psychological deficiencies and many with mental illness. People do not chose to have a psychosis, or worse, a mental illness. And to call these lifetraps is just erroneous.
Unless a person is delusional and/or a danger to himself or others, I tend to believe we can and ought to manage our own mental health. Therefore, if someone has one of the life traps above, which you called “psychosis” - I don’t think they MUST go to a “profesional” - who is practicing his profession, though some may need it. In my experience, most (not all) such “professionals” project their own issues and are not all that helpful. However the life trap list I got from a therapist - and that’s been helpful.

Another thing I got that helped was a list of cognitive distortions.
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/20-cog ... fe-0407154
One thinking distortion is “Black and White Thinking,” (either-or thinking). It’s even in the church - like “You are either on the Lord’s side or you’re not,” and “The church is either true or not.” Another distortion is jumping to conclusions - like assuming you know all about life traps without having read enough about them. The following link explains more - I just noted that some ideas come from people working at BYU, in case that adds credence. ;)
https://www.antelopespringscounseling.c ... cNeeds.pdf

Life traps are common - everyone has at least one to some degree, so I wouldn’t say they are all requiring professional help. You noted how they can be good, not bad - and that’s true. But to be a life trap is when they are bad - taken to extreme - destructive, and originate in childhood as a way to cope, but persist into adulthood.

BeNotDeceived (someone on this forum) began a thread something like, “Do you know what you do not know?” Think back to when you were a teen or young adult - if you were like most, you probably thought you knew a lot - but you didn’t know what you didn’t know. We need a tool like a mental flashlight to help figure out what’s in the dark. Life traps and cognitive distortions have given me some framework in which to explore issues I need to bring to light. They aren’t cure-alls, but helpful. There are other theories like in psychological and spiritual development, personality, temperament, birth order, faith stages, archetypes/dream symbolism and types of intelligence that also have helped me understand and better love others as well as myself.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Half of the solution to any problem is identifying/recognizing what it really is.

You don't solve a problem by creating others.

When you identify that there is a problem within your "jurisdiction," you have to own it and deal with it. Some problems will resolve themselves; however . . .

I recall the following conversation in the movie, "JAWS." (How ironic that the title infers that talk is cheap:)

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Thinker
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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BruceRGilbert wrote: October 19th, 2019, 9:22 am Half of the solution to any problem is identifying/recognizing what it really is.
True! “It’s half the battle.”
And there’s no shame in having a shadow - no shame in not being completely “en-lightened.” Only God sees it all - only God is all-knowing.
  • “The shadow exists as part of the unconscious mind and is composed of repressed ideas, weaknesses, desires, instincts, and shortcomings.

    The shadow forms out of our attempts to adapt to cultural norms and expectations. It is this archetype that contains all of the things that are unacceptable not only to society, but also to one's own personal morals and values. It might include things such as envy, greed, prejudice, hate, and aggression.

    This archetype is often described as the darker side of the psyche, representing wildness, chaos, and the unknown. These latent dispositions are present in all of us, Jung believed, although people sometimes deny this element of their own psyche and instead project it on to others.”
The shadow is only 1/4 of what Jung noted, makes up the human psyche. There are many archetypes (“universal patterns”) - but within all are 4 main ones...

Image
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-are-j ... es-2795439

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Thinker
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

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One way of looking at what some of us have gone through, is that the church was a springboard - a foundation (as fallible as it is) for more! There’s much much more!

Study your soul! Many others have & if you don’t, they will control you without you even knowing it! You see it in herd mentality followers.

I thought these tips for incorporating one’s psychological shadow were helpful:

” 1. Your shadow self is part of you. But it doesn’t define you.
** “Shadow work doesn’t ask you to accept your darkness as your defining characteristic. It requires you to integrate your shadow so that you are empowered to control it instead of letting it control you.”

2. Journal your revelations.

3. Pay attention to your reactions.

4. Don’t second guess or intellectualize your intuition.

5. Shadow Work Is a Lifetime Process.”
https://medium.com/illumination/5-eleme ... 3d35205291

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harakim
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by harakim »

Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
For the most part, I don't blame others around me for stuff that I do. I do think I would excel a lot more if I could get over victimization. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I don't really know. I think I do victimize myself or I would be doing better in the things I think are important. And I think that's some kind of projection.

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Niemand
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by Niemand »

Everyone projects and everyone is a hypocrite. It Is a matter of degree.

endlessQuestions
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by endlessQuestions »

Michael Sherwin wrote: October 18th, 2019, 4:26 pm
Thinker wrote: October 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm God is I AM THAT I AM - or awareness beyond superficial awareness. We all sin - that in itself is not real evil - real evil is denying sin and trying to make another pay. That damns us - keeps us from progressing.
  • “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble, and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. - Ether 12:27
Jung explained that the psychological shadow is that which a person is unaware of - the un/subconscious - that which is in the dark, not yet brought to light. In the last 4 minutes of the following video, discusses how dangerous projection is when directed toward groups, which has resulted in war and genocides.
https://youtu.be/nI-Ko-d29X4

Also in that video is noted how often we project but the healthy response is to catch it and take responsibility. I have caught myself being a hypocrite to my kids, yelling, “STOP YELLING!” Lol

Do you ever project?
Have you come to realize shadow aspects of yourself, &/or of others?
I had a friend for about 18 years. One day he went on a tirade telling me everything that was wrong with me. He was very hateful in his tone of voice. I sat and listened. I know my faults. And nothing he described pertained to me but he was describing himself perfectly. We stopped being friends that day. I have seen this behavior in others but not to such a great extent. Anyway, I do not project and never have. There is nothing in my nature that would cause me to project my faults onto others. Quite the opposite. Often when I have to listen to someone ranting judgmentally about another person and a certain trait is mentioned that applies to me as well then I will speak up in the other person's defence, "Well, I suffer from a bit of that myself, no one is perfect". This is the first time I have heard about this shadow. I do not seem to have a shadow in that sense.
“I do not project and never have”.

And this, Michael, is why I can never, ever take anything you say seriously.

Those are the words of a person who is so deep into the illusion that they lack any sense of introspection at all. And that is dangerous.

EvanLM
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

larsenb wrote: October 16th, 2019, 5:49 pm Its one of the identified standard psychological defense mechanisms. We attack in others what we don't like in ourselves, normally in a subconscious manner.
or those who have no identity . . . go here and there . . . even some on this forum . . . who hate who they are told to hate

like hate maskers . . .like hate vaxed people and call them dub or sheeple

kate daley is one of the worst . . .she has had some of the best guests but she spread hate for the masked for over a year . . . now she spreads hate for the whole medical profession and only like those she tel;ls you to

lot of mask haters did Kates bidding on this forum and then when she finally quit then the haters here did. I propose that you do much of what you are told and can't stand with those who have developed their identity and stand for the right no matter

a good identity . . I am a child of God . . . under ALL circumstances . . .

btw who is paying Kate and she IS from california . . the state of deception . . .its a small world

EvanLM
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Original_Intent wrote: October 16th, 2019, 6:51 pm I appreciate you dragging Jordan Peterson into this as he has a lot of good Jungian thoughts on the shadow, and essentially says that the very worst people that did the very worst things - that we all with a *very* few exceptions would have done the same things in the same circumstances.

Yet another reason to "judge not" or "judge righteous judgment" (if we are able)… I tend to agree with him
I wouldn't have and I think this lets evil off the hook . . kinda like sympathy for the child rapist . . no and a lot of people have been tempted by this ev
il as you claim and they quit their job, got out of politics, became a whistleblower, or whatever rather than be a part of it. The only time a christian would be apart of it is when they are chained to it, like elizabeth Smart and she claims that she still maintained her virtue and thoughts in the midst of evil.

Jordan is a brainwasher who pays his bills? can't find truth when you keep agreeing with the brain washers

EvanLM
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Re: Psychological Shadow - Do you project?

Post by EvanLM »

Jordan has one of those trained PBS voices. . . tinkling in our ears

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