“Seek Ye This Jesus” and “The Glory of God is Intelligence”

[An Eye Single]

Earlier today, I posted the following on Facebook and thought that I would make a recommendation for these two books here on LDSFF, too. Hope many of you take the time to check them out.



I don’t post things on Facebook very often, so I hope that, when I do, people know that I consider what I am sharing to be very important to me.

Over the last couple of years, I have been blessed to be voice for two audiobooks. I cannot recommend these books highly enough. The first is “Seek Ye This Jesus: Seeing, Hearing, and Dwelling With God”, by Robert Smith. The second (by the same author) is “The Glory of God is Intelligence: Acquiring and Disseminating Light and Truth”. Paperback and Kindle versions can be purchased on Amazon. The author also has links to those and additional free e-book and free audiobook versions on the right sidebar of his blog: www.upwardthought.blogspot.com

Like most people, my time is limited and I find it difficult to find the time to accomplish all that I would like to on any given day. Nothing short of the recognition of the truth contained in these books and a bit of spurring from the Lord could have ever motivated me to take on the project of recording two audiobooks. It is my opinion that the truths presented in them have the potential to positively affect everything from overcoming our own personal temptations and difficulties to the way in which we conduct our public discourse and debate. I know that the light and truth contained in them comes at a time of great personal and societal darkness and is tangible evidence of God’s mercy to those who have (either knowingly or unknowingly) turned away from Him. They have been big projects, but my sincere testimony is that they will be a great benefit to those who are honest in heart and who are searching for a deeper relationship with God and His truth than they have presently. Please check them out. They are being made available to you at little to no cost and the cost of not understanding what is presented in them is higher than one might imagine.

Much love to all!

Cindy

[marc]

I am currently plowing through The Glory of God is Intelligence. It is a very well thought out, well constructed, and easy to understand book. I look forward to Seek Yes This Jesus.

[drtanner]

This author believes the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has gone off the rails, and there is no need for ordinances or the church.

[marc]

This author believes the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has gone off the rails, and there is no need for ordinances or the church.

Did he say these things? I do know that he was called in to a disciplinary council. In any case, I find nothing wrong so far with this deeply insightful book.

[drtanner]

This author believes the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has gone off the rails, and there is no need for ordinances or the church.

Did he say these things? I do know that he was called in to a disciplinary council. In any case, I find nothing wrong so far with this deeply insightful book.

Yes if you read his blog he says them. I appreciate his effort to help individuals develop a relationship with Christ, but not at the expense of tossing aside his church.

[marc]

I can appreciate your perspective and his. I mean, look at Martin Harris. After the Kirtland Safety Society debacle and the saints' expulsion from Missouri, and as a result of persecution from within the church, God told him to leave the church.

If you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens and told me to 'separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints, for as they sought to do unto me, so it should be done unto them.'

Lehi also effectively left the church when he departed into the wilderness with the brass plates. In any case, I agree with everything that I have read so far in this book. We should individually do whatever the Lord requires of us. He required Jeremiah to stay in Jerusalem and cry repentance while He required Lehi to depart.

[Zathura]

Ahh I never keep tabs on the things I need to most.
Didn't Caburnha or Hosh share a podcast episode or when this guy shared his experience of the Baptism of FIre and Holy Ghost or am I thinking of someone else?

[drtanner]

I can appreciate your perspective and his. I mean, look at Martin Harris. After the Kirtland Safety Society debacle and the saints' expulsion from Missouri, and as a result of persecution from within the church, God told him to leave the church.

If you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens and told me to 'separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints, for as they sought to do unto me, so it should be done unto them.'

Lehi also effectively left the church when he departed into the wilderness with the brass plates. In any case, I agree with everything that I have read so far in this book. We should individually do whatever the Lord requires of us. He required Jeremiah to stay in Jerusalem and cry repentance while He required Lehi to depart.

I’ve seen several of these folks that leave and unfortunately many of them seem to have other motives outside of Jesus voice directly telling them to leave even though that is what many of them claim.

As far as Martin Harris only God knows but if I were trying to justify leaving and gain followers I’d probably say the same thing. The rest of his history is telling however.

Truly as President Nelson has said in coming days in order to spiritually survive it will be critical to have the constant influence of the Holy Ghost.

[marc]

Personally speaking, I won't tell someone to leave the church. Lehi didn't. He admonished others to repent and obey God's commandments. But if God tells you to leave or stay or do something different, I would not recommend disobeying. It's not a one size fits all.

[drtanner]

Personally speaking, I won't tell someone to leave the church. Lehi didn't. He admonished others to repent and obey God's commandments. But if God tells you to leave or stay or do something different, I would not recommend disobeying. It's not a one size fits all.

I can appreciate you not telling someone to leave but by telling anyone "it is not a one size fits all" you are still communicating something you believe about the church.

From my observations there are several out there simply waiting on that "last straw" to leave. They have made up their minds about the church and are waiting to pounce on something that will justify their behavior and in most cases criticizing at any opportunity. That seems different from an honest petition to the Lord and a humble willingness to follow him at all costs. It is fairly easy to discern between the two.

Speaking of Martin Harris I believe there is a good lesson there about eventually allowing an answer if someone wants it bad enough.

[marc]

Personally speaking, I won't tell someone to leave the church. Lehi didn't. He admonished others to repent and obey God's commandments. But if God tells you to leave or stay or do something different, I would not recommend disobeying. It's not a one size fits all.

I can appreciate you not telling someone to leave but by telling anyone "it is not a one size fits all" you are still communicating something you believe about the church.

From my observations there are several out there simply waiting on that "last straw" to leave. They have made up their minds about the church and are waiting to pounce on something that will justify their behavior and in most cases criticizing at any opportunity. That seems different from an honest petition to the Lord and a humble willingness to follow him at all costs. It is fairly easy to discern between the two.

Speaking of Martin Harris I believe there is a good lesson there about eventually allowing an answer if someone wants it bad enough.

D&C 137:9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

God does not tolerate lukewarm people, despite the truthfulness of the church. A person who is mentally checked out is no better off than a temple recommend holding member who does not keep his/her covenants, though one of them might by appearances look like a devout bishop or stake president. Personally speaking, I'd rather see someone being brutally honest with himself/herself about his/her discipleship of Jesus Christ or lack thereof. Martin Harris ends up where Martin Harris ends up. I can't nor will I judge him any more or less that I will Lehi. The abrasive process of repentance is a cleansing one. But a person's heart must be true.

2 Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

Just because I'm on team LDS with a temple recommend doesn't necessarily mean I'm golden. We must not kid ourselves. We must be willing to put everything on the altar. We must continually witness to God acting NO HYPOCRISY and NO DECEPTION and with REAL INTENT that we are repenting. We must accept correction and chastisement. When I say repentance, particularly abrasive repentance, I mean discovering in the light of Christ how we are not yet like Him and suffering in the flesh, the painful corrections that burn away the dross that are all the desires and lusts and appetites of the flesh and all worldly desires and pursuits. We must be like Him to the absolute best of our ability to be reconciled with Him. That means talking to Him and asking Him what we lack to be like Him. Pressing forward in the light is walking with Him. It is acquiring knowledge. When we are not walking in His light continually stripping ourselves of all ungodliness, we are walking more and more in darkness, which is ignorance. We cannot be saved in ignorance. But if we are not willing to do anything and everything He requires of us so that we discover our individual weaknesses so that He may heal us, we remain damned, unwilling to go further. We pretty much declare to Him, this is as far as I go. I am not willing to change any more. And it won't matter one whit whether one goes to church every Sunday and does his/her ministering, etc. if one's heart isn't right with God, because one refuses to be honest with one's self.

So whether the church is this way or that, what is important to an individual is whether he/she is right with God, no matter what everyone else may think. But like you said, that is why President Nelson told us that it is critical to have the constant influence of the Holy Ghost. But if one fears to sacrifice everything, including his/her membership in the church IF that is what the Lord requires, then one cannot expect to inherit what our fathers inherited who were willing to sacrifice everything, including their very lives. I'm not saying the Lord will require anyone to sacrifice membership, but don't be surprised (if you truly seek His face) if He requires you to sacrifice the ONE THING that just might cause you to walk away sorrowing because you loved that more than Him.

[marc]

I would much rather talk about these books, which is what the topic is about. Let's try and refute them if we can, though I'm not sure anyone is interested in talking about it as much as they are the author or anyone like him.

[An Eye Single]

“The Glory of God is Intelligence”, as its subtitle suggests, is about acquiring and disseminating light and truth. So much goes into that. (That’s why a book was written, right?) Part of that process requires us to evaluate many potentially correct and potentially incorrect messages and it requires us to evaluate them independent of the messenger.

“Prove [GR: examine, put to the test] all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

How do we “prove” them? We plant them in our hearts and see if they grow to bear fruit. How can you do that if you reject them out of hand based solely on the person bringing you the message?

There is so much good material in “TGOGII” that I am still digesting it-even after spending months studying, recording, listening back, editing, re-recording, and listening to it again. It is packed! The same can be said of “Seek Ye This Jesus”. I would echo marc’s sentiments, though. Read the books and let’s discuss things. Happy to know of things that may be incorrect or incomplete.

As to “SYTJ”, specifically, it has two main parts. The first part dedicates a number of chapters to the doctrine of Christ and its importance as laid out in the scriptures. It is a primer for the second part of the book which addresses key principles and practices to help the reader develop a closer relationship to the Lord and to become a more effective servant in His kingdom. He knows where we are at and most of us are too far from Him. We don’t have a lot of time left and the Lord knows this, too. Time to cut to the chase. This book does that. It makes a correct understanding of the doctrine of Christ more readily and easily available to the honest seeker of truth and teaches the reader how to obtain an actual relationship with the Lord.

I’m happy to post some of my favorite quotes on this thread for discussion.

[marc]

This book, The Glory of God is Intelligence, truly resonates with me and my experiences. If I were to write such a book, I doubt it would deviate much at all with what I have so far read. I'm on chapter 23 right now. I occasionally have to refresh the Google link because a chapter will stop playing and I have to download it to make it work. I appreciate the citations and how well supported with scriptures this book is. My path is not dissimilar to this, if this is based on Rob's experiences. I know the sacrifices required of us are customized to our individual personalities/struggles/weaknesses, etc., but the pattern is the same. It was the same for Abraham, Nephi, and many others.

The only thing I do differently, which I do in my own blog, is NOT to tell people what they should or shouldn't do, other than to do precisely what the Lord requires of them; no more, no less. I've been told that he tells people to leave the church. I don't know if that is true or just hearsay. That Rob was called in for disciplinary council and was either excommunicated or he left due to things the Lord required of him is his own path. I know I have been accused of what isn't true, such as resigning from the church. I am still a faithful member, and what I mean by faithful is to Jesus Christ. I am His disciple alone.

Oh, I almost forgot--I mentioned Martin Harris above, but I should have written David Whitmer. My apologies about that; I tend to get my wires crossed.

[drtanner]

Let me just Emphatically say to anyone reading if you think the Lord is telling you to leave the church as a test of personal sacrifice that is not the Lord. I know several individuals personally who have gone down this road all to end up wandering in strange paths and ending in despair.

Truly one of the greatest tests IMO is detecting the devil when he is Attempting to appear as an angel of light and why Jospeh spent some time covering the topic.

[marc]

Let me just Emphatically say to anyone reading if you think the Lord is telling you to leave the church as a test of personal sacrifice that is not the Lord. I know several individuals personally who have gone down this road all to end up wandering in strange paths and ending in despair.

Truly one of the greatest tests IMO is detecting the devil when he is Attempting to appear as an angel of light and why Jospeh spent some time covering the topic.

Drtanner, I love you brother. Let me say with affection and earnestly that you may emphatically say that indeed, but unless you can prophetically say this and then even if you did, and I were to set up such a stake for myself, I might as well be damned either for trusting you (arm of flesh) or simply refusing to move forward out of fear. You are not my savior nor any man's. Therefore, while your intention is noble, it misrepresents the fact that the Lord has, does, and will require one to sacrifice anything and everything. Joseph Smith repeatedly taught against setting up stakes before the Lord. The Lord will require of you the very thing you have determined never to give up. Obedience is greater than sacrifice. If you will not obey the Lord in every thing, then you cannot obtain what Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and others obtained. To think so is to call God a respector of persons. The Lord doesn't require something of us that He doesn't multiply and enlarge. If He requires your one son on the altar, it is because He intends to give you infinite sons. If he were to (hypothetically) require of you your membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it may be that He intends to induct you into the Church of the Firstborn (D&C 76). One must be willing to die in one sphere in order to ascend to the next. But I digress. Let every man learn line upon line, precept upon precept, especially if he has barely begun his journey with tender feet.

[drtanner]

Let me just Emphatically say to anyone reading if you think the Lord is telling you to leave the church as a test of personal sacrifice that is not the Lord. I know several individuals personally who have gone down this road all to end up wandering in strange paths and ending in despair.

Truly one of the greatest tests IMO is detecting the devil when he is Attempting to appear as an angel of light and why Jospeh spent some time covering the topic.

Drtanner, I love you brother. Let me say with affection and earnestly that you may emphatically say that indeed, but unless you can prophetically say this and then even if you did, and I were to set up such a stake for myself, I might as well be damned either for trusting you (arm of flesh) or simply refusing to move forward out of fear. You are not my savior nor any man's. Therefore, while your intention is noble, it misrepresents the fact that the Lord has, does, and will require one to sacrifice anything and everything. Joseph Smith repeatedly taught against setting up stakes before the Lord. The Lord will require of you the very thing you have determined never to give up. Obedience is greater than sacrifice. If you will not obey the Lord in every thing, then you cannot obtain what Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and others obtained. To think so is to call God a respector of persons. The Lord doesn't require something of us that He doesn't multiply and enlarge. If He requires your one son on the altar, it is because He intends to give you infinite sons. If he were to (hypothetically) require of you your membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it may be that He intends to induct you into the Church of the Firstborn (D&C 76). One must be willing to die in one sphere in order to ascend to the next. But I digress. Let every man learn line upon line, precept upon precept, especially if he has barely begun his journey with tender feet.

Yes but this is simply an interpretation of what Joesph taught about sacrifice. Look at the evidence of those who received the greatest of all blessings in scripture, were they asked to do this? (You mention Lehi before but he was not asked to "leave" the church rather he simply left Jerusalem and we don't know enough about the specifics and conversations with other leaders of the church at the time, If you also follow David Whitmers history you will see where this line of thinking got him and his family) If we go down this road what is to keep us from asking questions like, If the Lord asked us to deny the existence of Christ should we obey? At some point we run into situations where requirements would be contrary to and violate eternal laws.

I love you as well Marc but I am sorry I just don't see any evidence of this requirement in history or scripture especially for those who received everything they could receive spiritually speaking in mortality. What I do see are people who are deceived or confused thinking the Lord asked them to do this who end up in horrible circumstances while the advisary laughs.

[marc]

Drtanner, I don't believe I have ever actually asserted that the Lord requires one to leave the church as in resign one's membership. What I have always asserted is that the Lord will require what He will and that we must be willing to sacrifice all things per the Lectures on Faith. And if, and I do believe I have always indicated "if" the Lord were to require it as I indicated above emphasizing "hypothetically," then one ought to do it. When I referred to Lehi, it was in a manner of speaking, or as Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, "from a certain point of view." So to reiterate and to put a finer point on it: Do whatever the Lord commands, if you love Him. That's it.

[marc]

"The Lord said: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14:27)

What is it? It is having total peace in total chaos because you trust God. Normal reactions are to lose your mind when a piece of your order is revealed to be wrong, because it brings the whole into question.
God’s love does not hide us from reality. It exposes us to reality. The truth is progressive. The more you know of it, the more you will see the things inside of you that are not ideal. If you embrace the opportunity to part with what doesn't work, you will find more and better. Everything that is replaced brings you closer to your ideal self: more secure in God; in possession of greater peace; more resilient to the unavoidable difficulties of reality. When you are consumed by love, you stand in the fire in peace. You can sleep on a boat in the midst of a terrible storm, as Jesus did. You can feel consummate joy while being stoned to death, as Stephen did. You can preach the gospel while being burned to death, as Abinadi did. Embrace truth. Run towards it. Get excited about it. A warrior runs toward the sound of battle, because he knows that is where he is meant to be. Why are you running away from the battle? The battle is why you were
born. It is why you are here. The battle calls you. Run to the sound of it. Don't try to escape from reality. Like the pressures of deep water to the pearl diver, it is a sign you are in the right place, doing what you are meant to do. Don't try to avoid pain. If you are reconciled to God, pain is the revelation of what you lack. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die. Everyone wants to be a beast until it’s time to do what beasts do. Embrace the vision of who you really are when it matters the most, when you are neck-deep in pressure and the only way out is through. True happiness is found only in facing and embracing all the undesirable things in this world! You do not receive happiness in the world to come in the same way people try to find it here. It isn’t that the undesirable things are taken away, it is that you have transcended them."--The Glory of God Is Intelligence, p. 276-277.

I have found a lot of precious gems in this book. I've almost finished reading it for the third time.

[cab]

"The Lord said: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14:27)

What is it? It is having total peace in total chaos because you trust God. Normal reactions are to lose your mind when a piece of your order is revealed to be wrong, because it brings the whole into question.
God’s love does not hide us from reality. It exposes us to reality. The truth is progressive. The more you know of it, the more you will see the things inside of you that are not ideal. If you embrace the opportunity to part with what doesn't work, you will find more and better. Everything that is replaced brings you closer to your ideal self: more secure in God; in possession of greater peace; more resilient to the unavoidable difficulties of reality. When you are consumed by love, you stand in the fire in peace. You can sleep on a boat in the midst of a terrible storm, as Jesus did. You can feel consummate joy while being stoned to death, as Stephen did. You can preach the gospel while being burned to death, as Abinadi did. Embrace truth. Run towards it. Get excited about it. A warrior runs toward the sound of battle, because he knows that is where he is meant to be. Why are you running away from the battle? The battle is why you were
born. It is why you are here. The battle calls you. Run to the sound of it. Don't try to escape from reality. Like the pressures of deep water to the pearl diver, it is a sign you are in the right place, doing what you are meant to do. Don't try to avoid pain. If you are reconciled to God, pain is the revelation of what you lack. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die. Everyone wants to be a beast until it’s time to do what beasts do. Embrace the vision of who you really are when it matters the most, when you are neck-deep in pressure and the only way out is through. True happiness is found only in facing and embracing all the undesirable things in this world! You do not receive happiness in the world to come in the same way people try to find it here. It isn’t that the undesirable things are taken away, it is that you have transcended them."--The Glory of God Is Intelligence, p. 276-277.

I have found a lot of precious gems in this book. I've almost finished reading it for the third time.

I just stumbled on this, but... marc, you've inspired me to go attempt to read this book again (or at least listen to the free audio version). This book requires alot... Like, it requires one to be willing to give up everything to the Lord, and so I put it down months ago. I'm ready to try again. I have read "Seek Ye this Jesus", and that book is great.

I once heard this author speak and he bore testimony of having seen the Lord. I believed him, and it was one of the most powerful testimonies I've ever heard born of the Savior.

[marc]

Two facts regarding the author:

1. Rob was excommunicated from the church.
2. Rob has testified that he has seen/been visited by Jesus Christ often.

My only opinion on the matter is that the book is a good fruit. I own a copy and I've listened to it on audio many times.

[cab]

Two facts regarding the author:

1. Rob was excommunicated from the church.
2. Rob has testified that he has seen/been visited by Jesus Christ often.

My only opinion on the matter is that the book is a good fruit. I own a copy and I've listened to it on audio many times.

I agree. In my opinion, the content of the book would be nearly impossible to write about without having 1st hand knowledge on the subject. Profound stuff.

[An Eye Single]

“Optimization is about getting the most of something you want given the unavoidable obstacles and unchangeable consequences in the environment. Almost all real problems have no unconstrained solutions. There are less-than-ideal consequences in every solution to the hardest problems. Optimization recognizes this, and seeks the best solution given that none are free from undesirable sub-outcomes.
Unfortunately, in today’s world, most people believe that with enough scientific advancement and social control, we can create an environment free from constraints and consequences. The unconstrained worldview is epitomized by the character Veruca Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, who demands a laundry list of physically impossible outcomes, and threatens to destroy everyone else’s happiness unless they find a way of making it happen. Veruca and Charlie share their desire to be the factory owner, but they differ greatly in their efforts to obtain it. Charlie believes in a constrained system—where some things are as they are and can’t be changed. Veruca doesn’t care to recognize the limitations of reality and, predictably, ends up suffering a great deal.
Belief in an unconstrained reality is accelerating in depth and breadth in spite of evidence to the contrary, and it is bleeding over into our spiritual beliefs. In spiritual and temporal settings alike, this unconstrained worldview creates unbridled hatred and animosity as reality continuously crashes against the belief that by wishing we can create something different and better than things as they really are. We all suffer from the unavoidable consequences of acting against evident reality, rejecting functional solutions while holding out for unrealistic ones.”—The Glory of God Is Intelligence, pp 163-164

[Grassland]

Earlier today, I posted the following on Facebook and thought that I would make a recommendation for these two books here on LDSFF, too. Hope many of you take the time to check them out.



I don’t post things on Facebook very often, so I hope that, when I do, people know that I consider what I am sharing to be very important to me.

Over the last couple of years, I have been blessed to be voice for two audiobooks. I cannot recommend these books highly enough. The first is “Seek Ye This Jesus: Seeing, Hearing, and Dwelling With God”, by Robert Smith. The second (by the same author) is “The Glory of God is Intelligence: Acquiring and Disseminating Light and Truth”. Paperback and Kindle versions can be purchased on Amazon. The author also has links to those and additional free e-book and free audiobook versions on the right sidebar of his blog: www.upwardthought.blogspot.com

Like most people, my time is limited and I find it difficult to find the time to accomplish all that I would like to on any given day. Nothing short of the recognition of the truth contained in these books and a bit of spurring from the Lord could have ever motivated me to take on the project of recording two audiobooks. It is my opinion that the truths presented in them have the potential to positively affect everything from overcoming our own personal temptations and difficulties to the way in which we conduct our public discourse and debate. I know that the light and truth contained in them comes at a time of great personal and societal darkness and is tangible evidence of God’s mercy to those who have (either knowingly or unknowingly) turned away from Him. They have been big projects, but my sincere testimony is that they will be a great benefit to those who are honest in heart and who are searching for a deeper relationship with God and His truth than they have presently. Please check them out. They are being made available to you at little to no cost and the cost of not understanding what is presented in them is higher than one might imagine.

Much love to all!

Cindy

I posted earlier today about this and it is important to consider:

Rob Smith, who writes the blog Upward Thought as well as authoring many other books, has something ironic (and might I add disturbingly) in common with Denver Snuffer. Both preach that you can see Christ in this life (both testify they experienced Christ personally coming to them in the flesh years ago). Both dedicate their free time to writing many books about seeking this Jesus and the restoration and coming to Christ in the flesh. And yet, ironically, neither one of their spouses have experienced Christ in the flesh.

That's right, you heard correctly...

Both men speak superfluously, youtube abundantly, blog passionately, and preach wholeheartedly yet....they both can not teach their most beloved treasure how to receive the Lord in the flesh.

These two men who devote their time and energy trying to inspire a movement, and yet...both men admittedly have not seen the Lord in years (I would be happy to be corrected via a link to their written testimony of their latest experience with the Lord...that is unless they have redacted their writings which put down the "too sacred to share" philosophy the church pushes and they have now adopted that which they once condemned).

Arrogant? Paradoxical? Incongruous?

And how do I know such things as these? I contacted both of them personally and pointed out these facts and both confirmed their spouses have not received the Lord. And as to them not seeing the Lord in many years...how do I know? Because their writings speak of Jesus (Just like the church does) but within their writings they no longer speak of their experiences WITH Him (also just like the church). When I told Denver the above about his wife having not seen the Lord, he chastised me saying that any such experience would be too sacred. Ahem. And when I pointed that to Rob, he admitted it had been some time and he longed to see the Lord again. His writings are an attempt to "please the Lord" in hopes for another audience. And even more sardonic, Rob Smith has taught his wife that the reason for her delay is tied to her acceptance of polygamy.

So my question is, for those of you that love and follow or read from these people....why?

How, when they can't even inspire or lead their own spouse to an audience with Christ, do you expect to glean anything from their sanctimonious drivel?

[Grassland]

“The Glory of God is Intelligence”, as its subtitle suggests, is about acquiring and disseminating light and truth. So much goes into that. (That’s why a book was written, right?) Part of that process requires us to evaluate many potentially correct and potentially incorrect messages and it requires us to evaluate them independent of the messenger.

“Prove [GR: examine, put to the test] all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

How do we “prove” them? We plant them in our hearts and see if they grow to bear fruit. How can you do that if you reject them out of hand based solely on the person bringing you the message?

There is so much good material in “TGOGII” that I am still digesting it-even after spending months studying, recording, listening back, editing, re-recording, and listening to it again. It is packed! The same can be said of “Seek Ye This Jesus”. I would echo marc’s sentiments, though. Read the books and let’s discuss things. Happy to know of things that may be incorrect or incomplete.

As to “SYTJ”, specifically, it has two main parts. The first part dedicates a number of chapters to the doctrine of Christ and its importance as laid out in the scriptures. It is a primer for the second part of the book which addresses key principles and practices to help the reader develop a closer relationship to the Lord and to become a more effective servant in His kingdom. He knows where we are at and most of us are too far from Him. We don’t have a lot of time left and the Lord knows this, too. Time to cut to the chase. This book does that. It makes a correct understanding of the doctrine of Christ more readily and easily available to the honest seeker of truth and teaches the reader how to obtain an actual relationship with the Lord.

I’m happy to post some of my favorite quotes on this thread for discussion.

I posted this earlier today and is important to consider:

Rob Smith, who writes the blog Upward Thought as well as authoring many other books, has something ironic (and might I add disturbingly) in common with Denver Snuffer. Both preach that you can see Christ in this life (both testify they experienced Christ personally coming to them in the flesh years ago). Both dedicate their free time to writing many books about seeking this Jesus and the restoration and coming to Christ in the flesh. And yet, ironically, neither one of their spouses have experienced Christ in the flesh.

That's right, you heard correctly...

Both men speak superfluously, youtube abundantly, blog passionately, and preach wholeheartedly yet....they both can not teach their most beloved treasure how to receive the Lord in the flesh.

These two men who devote their time and energy trying to inspire a movement, and yet...both men admittedly have not seen the Lord in years (I would be happy to be corrected via a link to their written testimony of their latest experience with the Lord...that is unless they have redacted their writings which put down the "too sacred to share" philosophy the church pushes and they have now adopted that which they once condemned).

Arrogant? Paradoxical? Incongruous?

And how do I know such things as these? I contacted both of them personally and pointed out these facts and both confirmed their spouses have not received the Lord. And as to them not seeing the Lord in many years...how do I know? Because their writings speak of Jesus (Just like the church does) but within their writings they no longer speak of their experiences WITH Him (also just like the church). When I told Denver the above about his wife having not seen the Lord, he chastised me saying that any such experience would be too sacred. Ahem. And when I pointed that to Rob, he admitted it had been some time and he longed to see the Lord again. His writings are an attempt to "please the Lord" in hopes for another audience. And even more sardonic, Rob Smith has taught his wife that the reason for her delay is tied to her acceptance of polygamy.

So my question is, for those of you that love and follow or read from these people....why?

How, when they can't even inspire or lead their own spouse to an audience with Christ, do you expect to glean anything from their sanctimonious drivel?