LDS Freedom Forum

Without naming names, a friend here sent me a PM about timelines, saying the 200 year mark from the first vision may be significant. Those of you who heard the final talk by President Nelson will note he counselled us to prepare for the bicentennial conference next April that will mark the occasion, noting we will be receiving at that conference and will require said preparation. Exciting times!

On a humorous note, President Nelson's talk cut off at "The great Jehovah shall say..." and my stream stopped. Say what say what? I'm pretty sure he was quoting the "Standard of Truth" that we recited on my mission every week. The work is done.

Interesting ....

I’m curious and would like to hear others thoughts on next conference. My system kept cutting out as well right at the end so I cannot fill it in either.

I was getting on here to ask what everyone thought!

Coincidentally, I too have been thinking about the 200 year anniversary. My husband and I had actually planned to take the family to Palmyra next Spring.

I believe the rest of Pres. Nelson’s statement was “the work is finished.”

So, Christ will return in six months?

Chip wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:16 pm So, Christ will return in six months?

I wouldn’t count on it...lol.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 3:57 pm I’m curious and would like to hear others thoughts on next conference. My system kept cutting out as well right at the end so I cannot fill it in either.

It will be held at Adam Ondi-Ahman. With a cameo appearance by Joseph Smith, himself.

Alaris wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 3:54 pm Without naming names, a friend here sent me a PM about timelines, saying the 200 year mark from the first vision may be significant. Those of you who heard the final talk by President Nelson will note he counselled us to prepare for the bicentennial conference next April that will mark the occasion, noting we will be receiving at that conference and will require said preparation. Exciting times!

On a humorous note, President Nelson's talk cut off at "The great Jehovah shall say..." and my stream stopped. Say what say what? I'm pretty sure he was quoting the "Standard of Truth" that we recited on my mission every week. The work is done.

Interesting ....

Here ya go...

“I leave with you my love and my blessing, that each of you may become happier and holier with each passing day,” he said. “Meanwhile, please be assured that revelation continues in the church and will continue under the Lord’s direction until ‘the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.’”
Pretty much end of statement.

I would expect a variation on 1980 general conference where the some of the brethren including prophet broadcast from the historic sites in the east.

Expecting a mix of presentations, talks, choir, orchestra, reenactments and videos recorded at the sites similar to the restoration of the priesthood broadcast they did a few years ago.

200 years is a big milestone. We are now at 217 temples announced or in operation. The work of the Lord continues, at breakneck speeds it seems lately.

Sunain wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:42 pm Expecting a mix of presentations, talks, choir, orchestra, reenactments and videos recorded at the sites similar to the restoration of the priesthood broadcast they did a few years ago.

200 years is a big milestone. We are now at 217 temples announced or in operation. The work of the Lord continues, at breakneck speeds it seems lately.

Agreed!

In addition, I would also expect another announcement/change or two. A temple in Independence or at Adam Ondi Ahman, maybe? Something related to women and priesthood?

I will say I am going to be trying to get tickets from my stake.

I had doubts the Church was going to forget about it... (in the last thread on this, when the Church announced it had no big plans or such for the bicentennial).

Davka wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:57 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:42 pm Expecting a mix of presentations, talks, choir, orchestra, reenactments and videos recorded at the sites similar to the restoration of the priesthood broadcast they did a few years ago.

200 years is a big milestone. We are now at 217 temples announced or in operation. The work of the Lord continues, at breakneck speeds it seems lately.

Agreed!

In addition, I would also expect another announcement/change or two. A temple in Independence or at Adam Ondi Ahman, maybe? Something related to women and priesthood?

I will say I am going to be trying to get tickets from my stake.

I turned to my husband and said, "Maybe they'll announce a certain temple in Missouri. *wink*"
He just rolled his eyes.

I could see them broadcasting some things from Palmyra as more likely though.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 6:11 pm I had doubts the Church was going to forget about it... (in the last thread on this, when the Church announced it had no big plans or such for the bicentennial).

Well, it has been declared a bicentennial year next year and come follow me will be the Book of Mormon. Pretty cool.

I anticipate a production of sorts celebrating two hundred years, invigorating oration by church leaders with some more emotionally arousing announcements.

marc wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 8:23 am I anticipate a production of sorts celebrating two hundred years, invigorating oration by church leaders with some more emotionally arousing announcements.

Pretty much this. Drama, flair, tear jerking stuff.

Incidentally, I don't mean that disrespectfully.

I think they'll do a dual broadcast from Palmyra (Whitmer farm where first GC was held and other sites) with members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 there, and the rest of the 12/70, etc in the conference center.

I'm seriously debating taking the whole famn damily to see the Hill Cumorah Pageant. I've been several times. Kids are 1-10. I wonder if it'll be worth it. I only want to make the effort if they'll appreciate it.

gangbusters wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 8:57 am I think they'll do a dual broadcast from Palmyra (Whitmer farm where first GC was held and other sites) with members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 there, and the rest of the 12/70, etc in the conference center.

I'm seriously debating taking the whole famn damily to see the Hill Cumorah Pageant. I've been several times. Kids are 1-10. I wonder if it'll be worth it. I only want to make the effort if they'll appreciate it.

I thought the pageant was history. Or are they doing it one more year?

justme wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 8:59 am

gangbusters wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 8:57 am I think they'll do a dual broadcast from Palmyra (Whitmer farm where first GC was held and other sites) with members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 there, and the rest of the 12/70, etc in the conference center.

I'm seriously debating taking the whole famn damily to see the Hill Cumorah Pageant. I've been several times. Kids are 1-10. I wonder if it'll be worth it. I only want to make the effort if they'll appreciate it.

I thought the pageant was history. Or are they doing it one more year?

2020 is the last year.

h_p wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:22 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 3:57 pm I’m curious and would like to hear others thoughts on next conference. My system kept cutting out as well right at the end so I cannot fill it in either.

It will be held at Adam Ondi-Ahman. With a cameo appearance by Joseph Smith, himself.

Cool! That's only 1 1/2 hours from our house - we'll be there!

justme wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:35 pm I would expect a variation on 1980 general conference where the some of the brethren including prophet broadcast from the historic sites in the east.

That was my first thought, as well.

Fun speculation- maybe it'll be at Adam-ondi-Ahman with Adam speaking and another as the concluding speaker. On second thought, maybe that'll just be the Priesthood session.

Actually, I'm sure it'll be a wonderful conference. The end times aren't yet so I don't think there will be anything new as far as major revelation and changes.
But seriously, I think it would be awesome if a Temple were announced to built at Adam-ondi-Ahman.

From Pres. Benson-

Three years before Adam's death, a great event occurred. He took his son Seth, his grandson Enos, and other high priests who were his direct-line descendants, with others of his righteous posterity, into a valley called Adam-ondi-Ahman. There Adam gave to these righteous descendants his last blessing.
The Lord then appeared to them.
The vast congregation rose up and blessed Adam and called him Michael, the prince and archangel. The Lord himself declared Adam to be a prince forever over his own posterity.
Then Adam in his aged condition rose up and, being filled with the spirit of prophecy, predicted "whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation." All this is recorded in section 107 of the Doctrine and Covenants (verses 53-56).
The Prophet Joseph Smith said that Adam blessed his posterity because "he wanted to bring them into the presence of God." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book co., 1938, p. 159.)
How did Adam bring his descendants into the presence of the Lord?
The answer: Adam and his descendants entered into the priesthood order of God. Today we would say they went to the House of the Lord and received their blessings. ("What I Hope You Will Teach Your Children About the Temple," Ensign 15 [August 1985]: 8-10)


Joseph Smith-
Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

Brigham Young dedicated the site for a Temple in 1838.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 12:18 pm Joseph Smith-
Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

Three thumbs up

Notice how he keeps referring to the Son of Man - to whom is given glory and dominion from Adam.

Then when Christ is mentioned ... Adam's stewardship is delivered up. Adam cannot give glory and dominion to Jesus Christ - this is such a no brainer, yet how many think the Son of Man = Jesus Christ in this quote?

Joseph Smith saw things - knew things. His language is carefully chosen here.

Joseph Smith Matthew:

1 For I say unto you, that ye shall not see me (Jesus) henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he (not Jesus) who cometh in the name of the Lord (the name is Jesus / Jehovah and He will not come in His own name), in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and crowned on the right hand of God.

Jesus tells His apostles that He Himself will not be seen until they say "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord" - meaning the Son of Man must appear first - the precursor. Elias.

Apocalyse of Thomas

And on the seventh day at the eighth hour there shall be voices in the four corners of the heaven. And all the air shall be shaken, and filled with holy angels, and they shall make war among them all the day long. And in that day shall mine elect be sought out by the holy angels from the destruction of the world. Then shall all men see that the hour of their destruction draweth near. These are the signs of the seventh day.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

The words of the Saviour unto Thomas are ended, concerning the end of this world.

Paul saw stuff - knew things

http://www.gnosis.org/library/visionpaul.htm

And I saw in the midst of this city a great altar, very high, and there was one standing near the altar whose countenance shone as the sun, and he held in his hands a psaltery and harp, and he sang psalms, saying Halleluia! And his voice filled the whole city: at the same time when all they who were on the towers and gates heard him they responded Halleluia! so that the foundations of the city were shaken: and I asked the angel and said, Sir, who is this of so great power? And the angel said to me: This is David: this is the city of Jerusalem, for when Christ the King of Eternity shall come with the assurance of His kingdom, he (David) again shall go before him (David = Elias) that he may sing psalms (new song Rev 14,) and all the just at the same time shall sing psalms responding Halleluia! (Praise Jah - Jahovah - Jahoel) And I said, Sir, how did David alone above the other saints make a beginning of psalm-singing? And the angel answered and said unto me: Because Christ the Son of God sits at the right hand of His Father, and this David sings psalms before him in the seventh heaven, and as is done in the heavens so also below, because the host may not be offered to God without David, but it is necessary that David should sing psalms in the hour of the oblation of the body and blood of Christ (the event to which our sacrament points - "that they may always have His spirit to be with them") : as it is performed in heaven so also on earth. (sitting upon the throne of another to earn the exaltation above - Elohim - Jesus and Michael - David)

Nephi saw stuff - knew things

1 Nephi 14:27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.

28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the Spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

Our prophets have seen stuff - know things

President Eyring

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... u?lang=eng

My hope today is to increase your desire and your ability to receive the Holy Ghost. Remember, He is the third member of the Godhead. The Father and the Son are resurrected beings. The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit. (See D&C 130:22.) It is your choice whether to receive Him and welcome Him into your heart and mind.

Notice what he says next

..Many of us hold images of those scenes in our memories. I once stood with my wife outside a tomb in Jerusalem. Many believe that it was the tomb from which the crucified Savior emerged as a resurrected and living God.

The respectful guide that day motioned with his hand and said to us, “Come, see an empty tomb.”

We stooped to enter. We saw a stone bench against a wall. But into my mind came another picture, as real as what we saw that day. It was of Mary, who was left by the Apostles at the tomb. That is what the Spirit let me see and even hear in my mind, as clearly as if I had been there:
...
These words are said by the Lord’s authorized servant with his hands on our head: “Receive the Holy Ghost.” At that moment you and I have the assurance He will be sent.

I bear testimony that the Father and the Son are sending the Holy Ghost to all who have that gift, ask for that blessing, and seek to be worthy of it. Neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost force Themselves into our lives. We are free to choose. The Lord has said to all:

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith”

I pray with all my heart that you will hear the voice of the Spirit, which is sent to you so generously. And I pray that you will open your heart always to receive Him.

I'll spare you the quote I share so often from President Nelson - that the father and the son will yet do many marvelous works but ... but learning to recognize and receive the Holy Ghost is essential to spiritual survival (paraphrasing.)

Now, I'm not saying next April will be all of this ... I am just commenting on what Adam-Ondi-Ahman means ... It's not just about Adam, and Jesus, but Adam, Jesus, and the Son of Man who is the Holy Ghost - the Angel of the Lord - the messenger of salvation. Receive the Holy Ghost ... this ordinance - just like the pre-Christian ordinances - point to a future fulfillment. The Holy Ghost will come - his name and dominion will be revealed - and he will not force his way into our lives. Yet our spiritual survival will depend upon learning to recognize his voice - and his voice is what the Lord calls "my voice" just as He refers to the Spirit as "my Spirit" for His name is in Him. His family name - His inheritance.

However, I will say that I have a hard time believing that President Nelson would tell us to start preparing now for April unless there is something larger than "live from Palmyra"

Alaris wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 12:18 pm Joseph Smith-
Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

Three thumbs up

Notice how he keeps referring to the Son of Man - to whom is given glory and dominion from Adam.

Then when Christ is mentioned ... Adam's stewardship is delivered up. Adam cannot give glory and dominion to Jesus Christ - this is such a no brainer, yet how many think the Son of Man = Jesus Christ in this quote?

Joseph Smith saw things - knew things. His language is carefully chosen here.

Joseph Smith Matthew:

1 For I say unto you, that ye shall not see me (Jesus) henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he (not Jesus) who cometh in the name of the Lord (the name is Jesus / Jehovah and He will not come in His own name), in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and crowned on the right hand of God.

Jesus tells His apostles that He Himself will not be seen until they say "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord" - meaning the Son of Man must appear first - the precursor. Elias.

Apocalyse of Thomas

And on the seventh day at the eighth hour there shall be voices in the four corners of the heaven. And all the air shall be shaken, and filled with holy angels, and they shall make war among them all the day long. And in that day shall mine elect be sought out by the holy angels from the destruction of the world. Then shall all men see that the hour of their destruction draweth near. These are the signs of the seventh day.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

The words of the Saviour unto Thomas are ended, concerning the end of this world.

Paul saw stuff - knew things

http://www.gnosis.org/library/visionpaul.htm

And I saw in the midst of this city a great altar, very high, and there was one standing near the altar whose countenance shone as the sun, and he held in his hands a psaltery and harp, and he sang psalms, saying Halleluia! And his voice filled the whole city: at the same time when all they who were on the towers and gates heard him they responded Halleluia! so that the foundations of the city were shaken: and I asked the angel and said, Sir, who is this of so great power? And the angel said to me: This is David: this is the city of Jerusalem, for when Christ the King of Eternity shall come with the assurance of His kingdom, he (David) again shall go before him (David = Elias) that he may sing psalms (new song Rev 14,) and all the just at the same time shall sing psalms responding Halleluia! (Praise Jah - Jahovah - Jahoel) And I said, Sir, how did David alone above the other saints make a beginning of psalm-singing? And the angel answered and said unto me: Because Christ the Son of God sits at the right hand of His Father, and this David sings psalms before him in the seventh heaven, and as is done in the heavens so also below, because the host may not be offered to God without David, but it is necessary that David should sing psalms in the hour of the oblation of the body and blood of Christ (the event to which our sacrament points - "that they may always have His spirit to be with them") : as it is performed in heaven so also on earth. (sitting upon the throne of another to earn the exaltation above - Elohim - Jesus and Michael - David)

Nephi saw stuff - knew things

1 Nephi 14:27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.

28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the Spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

Our prophets have seen stuff - know things

President Eyring

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... u?lang=eng

My hope today is to increase your desire and your ability to receive the Holy Ghost. Remember, He is the third member of the Godhead. The Father and the Son are resurrected beings. The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit. (See D&C 130:22.) It is your choice whether to receive Him and welcome Him into your heart and mind.

Notice what he says next

..Many of us hold images of those scenes in our memories. I once stood with my wife outside a tomb in Jerusalem. Many believe that it was the tomb from which the crucified Savior emerged as a resurrected and living God.

The respectful guide that day motioned with his hand and said to us, “Come, see an empty tomb.”

We stooped to enter. We saw a stone bench against a wall. But into my mind came another picture, as real as what we saw that day. It was of Mary, who was left by the Apostles at the tomb. That is what the Spirit let me see and even hear in my mind, as clearly as if I had been there:
...
These words are said by the Lord’s authorized servant with his hands on our head: “Receive the Holy Ghost.” At that moment you and I have the assurance He will be sent.

I bear testimony that the Father and the Son are sending the Holy Ghost to all who have that gift, ask for that blessing, and seek to be worthy of it. Neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost force Themselves into our lives. We are free to choose. The Lord has said to all:

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith”

I pray with all my heart that you will hear the voice of the Spirit, which is sent to you so generously. And I pray that you will open your heart always to receive Him.

I'll spare you the quote I share so often from President Nelson - that the father and the son will yet do many marvelous works but ... but learning to recognize and receive the Holy Ghost is essential to spiritual survival (paraphrasing.)

Now, I'm not saying next April will be all of this ... I am just commenting on what Adam-Ondi-Ahman means ... It's not just about Adam, and Jesus, but Adam, Jesus, and the Son of Man who is the Holy Ghost - the Angel of the Lord - the messenger of salvation. Receive the Holy Ghost ... this ordinance - just like the pre-Christian ordinances - point to a future fulfillment. The Holy Ghost will come - his name and dominion will be revealed - and he will not force his way into our lives. Yet our spiritual survival will depend upon learning to recognize his voice - and his voice is what the Lord calls "my voice" just as He refers to the Spirit as "my Spirit" for His name is in Him. His family name - His inheritance.

However, I will say that I have a hard time believing that President Nelson would tell us to start preparing now for April unless there is something larger than "live from Palmyra"

Speaking of the Son of Man and the First Vision...

Has anyone ever considered who the Lord was referring to in this revelation to Joseph Smith?

I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15).

Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

Davka wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Speaking of the Son of Man and the First Vision...

Has anyone ever considered who the Lord was referring to in this revelation to Joseph Smith?

I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15).

Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

I think he was referring to the second coming and/or His return.
Who is the Son of Man? It's Christ.


31 ¶ Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.