LDS Freedom Forum

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 10:41 am

Davka wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Speaking of the Son of Man and the First Vision...

Has anyone ever considered who the Lord was referring to in this revelation to Joseph Smith?

I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15).

Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

I think he was referring to the second coming and/or His return.
Who is the Son of Man? It's Christ.


31 ¶ Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

I don’t think you are wrong.

Broadcasting conference from AOA would be something indeed.

I would think an announcement for a temple at Far West would come before one at AOA or Independence.

Read 4th Nephi and see what happens to Christ’s Church after 200 years...

JK4Woods wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 1:38 am Read 4th Nephi and see what happens to Christ’s Church after 200 years...

It has been almost 200 years, and looking at the membership in the US, I'd say taken as a whole we're a complete mess. But there were still some faithful back then, or else the Nephites wouldn't have had Mormon and Moroni as their final prophets. Mormon wouldn't have written to Moroni about the abomination of infant baptism.

I'd also keep in mind that all the words of the prophets will be fulfilled. It may not be in the way or in the timeline we'd expect.

lost ark wrote: ↑October 13th, 2019, 8:13 am

JK4Woods wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 1:38 am Read 4th Nephi and see what happens to Christ’s Church after 200 years...

It has been almost 200 years, and looking at the membership in the US, I'd say taken as a whole we're a complete mess. But there were still some faithful back then, or else the Nephites wouldn't have had Mormon and Moroni as their final prophets. Mormon wouldn't have written to Moroni about the abomination of infant baptism.

I'd also keep in mind that all the words of the prophets will be fulfilled. It may not be in the way or in the timeline we'd expect.

Slight correction. 200 years was about when a small group of people started to become wicked, and that’s after they had a Zion-like people for at least half that time. It took another 200 years for most everyone else to become wicked.

Don't get too excited. After the children of Joseph and his brothers (the House of Israel) and father Isaac (Israel) were rescued by Moses (chosen and empowered and commanded by God) from Egypt they were then taken out into a desert and mostly slaughtered. There are yet 7 years endearingly referred to as the Zombie Apocalypse between the moment the Church flees into the wilderness (where for 7 years the Saints will eat nothing but German style breaded mushrooms slathered in sweet peppered mustard sauce; Mannah) and the moment the Lord steps foot on the Mount of Olives and transforms the Earth into a Terrestrial Kingdom (as opposed to a Telestial and Celestial Kingdom) style paradise. The moment the Church flees into the wilderness is when that glorious 7 years of hell will begin. Most Saints will probably think living in tents with God's angels and glorious pillars of fire all around them teaching and protecting them will be pretty cool and so sure, get excited. Enjoy it while it lasts! Then during those 7 years at some point, most likely AFTER the antichrist is defeated (somewhere at the 3 year mark) the meeting at Adam-Andi-Oman will occur and the New Jerusalem will begin construction and the City of Enoch will descend and so on. Remember, according to modern prophets the land known as Missouri, Kansas, and so on... must be completely wiped clean and look like the Sahara Desert (I'm quoting several prophets who actually word verbatim said "great desert with sand dunes") before the New Jerusalem can commence construction and the City of Enoch come down. Some have said that George Washington predicted America would first be obliterated by what appeared to him to be many stars brighter than the sun before Jesus would then say it's done. Either way sounds like a blast! I'm very, very, very far away and yet still I'm having trouble being excited about it all. I'm slightly envious of those who are! I'll none-the-less bring popcorn and drinks when I sit down to watch the news as these events unfold. God help us!!! P.S.- I've never, ever, had such an uncanny feeling as people have said such and such is coming on such and such a date, it's literally as if something was telling me he's lying, when President Nelson and others spoke about the upcoming Conference. I pray to God there is another conference coming. I pray to God there is another Christmas coming! Surely! Brigham Young said we should never wish doom and war and destruction on the world. We should never wish eternal condemnation and hell on the masses. We should never want the 2nd coming to come today. And yet we all do look forward to it, for the hoped for good that it will bring into everybody's lives. We are hopeful. Hoping it won't be a Zombie Apocalypse instead of Santa Clause! -MannahChef

Davka wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:05 pm I was getting on here to ask what everyone thought!

Coincidentally, I too have been thinking about the 200 year anniversary. My husband and I had actually planned to take the family to Palmyra next Spring.

I believe the rest of Pres. Nelson’s statement was “the work is finished.”

I live in Portugal. Most of the Portuguese, Spanish or French have no idea of who the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is, let alone been visited by a missionary. Only in the larger towns there is any meaningful Church presence.

The work is far from being done.

francisco.colaco wrote: ↑October 13th, 2019, 12:57 pm

Davka wrote: ↑October 6th, 2019, 4:05 pm I was getting on here to ask what everyone thought!

Coincidentally, I too have been thinking about the 200 year anniversary. My husband and I had actually planned to take the family to Palmyra next Spring.

I believe the rest of Pres. Nelson’s statement was “the work is finished.”

I live in Portugal. Most of the Portuguese, Spanish or French have no idea of who the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is, let alone been visited by a missionary. Only in the larger towns there is any meaningful Church presence.

The work is far from being done.

In my opinion, your interpretation is a common misconception.

With that said, if you read the question I was answering, I was quoting the end of President Nelson’s statement “The Great Jehovah * shall* say the work is finished.” That is future tense...so I think we are on the same page here.

Davka wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 12:18 pm Joseph Smith-
Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

Three thumbs up

Notice how he keeps referring to the Son of Man - to whom is given glory and dominion from Adam.

Then when Christ is mentioned ... Adam's stewardship is delivered up. Adam cannot give glory and dominion to Jesus Christ - this is such a no brainer, yet how many think the Son of Man = Jesus Christ in this quote?

Joseph Smith saw things - knew things. His language is carefully chosen here.

Joseph Smith Matthew:

1 For I say unto you, that ye shall not see me (Jesus) henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he (not Jesus) who cometh in the name of the Lord (the name is Jesus / Jehovah and He will not come in His own name), in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and crowned on the right hand of God.

Jesus tells His apostles that He Himself will not be seen until they say "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord" - meaning the Son of Man must appear first - the precursor. Elias.

Apocalyse of Thomas

And on the seventh day at the eighth hour there shall be voices in the four corners of the heaven. And all the air shall be shaken, and filled with holy angels, and they shall make war among them all the day long. And in that day shall mine elect be sought out by the holy angels from the destruction of the world. Then shall all men see that the hour of their destruction draweth near. These are the signs of the seventh day.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

The words of the Saviour unto Thomas are ended, concerning the end of this world.

Paul saw stuff - knew things

http://www.gnosis.org/library/visionpaul.htm

And I saw in the midst of this city a great altar, very high, and there was one standing near the altar whose countenance shone as the sun, and he held in his hands a psaltery and harp, and he sang psalms, saying Halleluia! And his voice filled the whole city: at the same time when all they who were on the towers and gates heard him they responded Halleluia! so that the foundations of the city were shaken: and I asked the angel and said, Sir, who is this of so great power? And the angel said to me: This is David: this is the city of Jerusalem, for when Christ the King of Eternity shall come with the assurance of His kingdom, he (David) again shall go before him (David = Elias) that he may sing psalms (new song Rev 14,) and all the just at the same time shall sing psalms responding Halleluia! (Praise Jah - Jahovah - Jahoel) And I said, Sir, how did David alone above the other saints make a beginning of psalm-singing? And the angel answered and said unto me: Because Christ the Son of God sits at the right hand of His Father, and this David sings psalms before him in the seventh heaven, and as is done in the heavens so also below, because the host may not be offered to God without David, but it is necessary that David should sing psalms in the hour of the oblation of the body and blood of Christ (the event to which our sacrament points - "that they may always have His spirit to be with them") : as it is performed in heaven so also on earth. (sitting upon the throne of another to earn the exaltation above - Elohim - Jesus and Michael - David)

Nephi saw stuff - knew things

1 Nephi 14:27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.

28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the Spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

Our prophets have seen stuff - know things

President Eyring

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... u?lang=eng

My hope today is to increase your desire and your ability to receive the Holy Ghost. Remember, He is the third member of the Godhead. The Father and the Son are resurrected beings. The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit. (See D&C 130:22.) It is your choice whether to receive Him and welcome Him into your heart and mind.

Notice what he says next

..Many of us hold images of those scenes in our memories. I once stood with my wife outside a tomb in Jerusalem. Many believe that it was the tomb from which the crucified Savior emerged as a resurrected and living God.

The respectful guide that day motioned with his hand and said to us, “Come, see an empty tomb.”

We stooped to enter. We saw a stone bench against a wall. But into my mind came another picture, as real as what we saw that day. It was of Mary, who was left by the Apostles at the tomb. That is what the Spirit let me see and even hear in my mind, as clearly as if I had been there:
...
These words are said by the Lord’s authorized servant with his hands on our head: “Receive the Holy Ghost.” At that moment you and I have the assurance He will be sent.

I bear testimony that the Father and the Son are sending the Holy Ghost to all who have that gift, ask for that blessing, and seek to be worthy of it. Neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost force Themselves into our lives. We are free to choose. The Lord has said to all:

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith”

I pray with all my heart that you will hear the voice of the Spirit, which is sent to you so generously. And I pray that you will open your heart always to receive Him.

I'll spare you the quote I share so often from President Nelson - that the father and the son will yet do many marvelous works but ... but learning to recognize and receive the Holy Ghost is essential to spiritual survival (paraphrasing.)

Now, I'm not saying next April will be all of this ... I am just commenting on what Adam-Ondi-Ahman means ... It's not just about Adam, and Jesus, but Adam, Jesus, and the Son of Man who is the Holy Ghost - the Angel of the Lord - the messenger of salvation. Receive the Holy Ghost ... this ordinance - just like the pre-Christian ordinances - point to a future fulfillment. The Holy Ghost will come - his name and dominion will be revealed - and he will not force his way into our lives. Yet our spiritual survival will depend upon learning to recognize his voice - and his voice is what the Lord calls "my voice" just as He refers to the Spirit as "my Spirit" for His name is in Him. His family name - His inheritance.

However, I will say that I have a hard time believing that President Nelson would tell us to start preparing now for April unless there is something larger than "live from Palmyra"

Speaking of the Son of Man and the First Vision...

Has anyone ever considered who the Lord was referring to in this revelation to Joseph Smith?

I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15).

Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

Davka can you elaborate on
Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

That is interesting what you wrote

itsmerich wrote: ↑October 13th, 2019, 7:37 pm

Davka wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 12:18 pm Joseph Smith-
Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.157)

Three thumbs up

Notice how he keeps referring to the Son of Man - to whom is given glory and dominion from Adam.

Then when Christ is mentioned ... Adam's stewardship is delivered up. Adam cannot give glory and dominion to Jesus Christ - this is such a no brainer, yet how many think the Son of Man = Jesus Christ in this quote?

Joseph Smith saw things - knew things. His language is carefully chosen here.

Joseph Smith Matthew:

1 For I say unto you, that ye shall not see me (Jesus) henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he (not Jesus) who cometh in the name of the Lord (the name is Jesus / Jehovah and He will not come in His own name), in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and crowned on the right hand of God.

Jesus tells His apostles that He Himself will not be seen until they say "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord" - meaning the Son of Man must appear first - the precursor. Elias.

Apocalyse of Thomas

And on the seventh day at the eighth hour there shall be voices in the four corners of the heaven. And all the air shall be shaken, and filled with holy angels, and they shall make war among them all the day long. And in that day shall mine elect be sought out by the holy angels from the destruction of the world. Then shall all men see that the hour of their destruction draweth near. These are the signs of the seventh day.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

The words of the Saviour unto Thomas are ended, concerning the end of this world.

Paul saw stuff - knew things

http://www.gnosis.org/library/visionpaul.htm

And I saw in the midst of this city a great altar, very high, and there was one standing near the altar whose countenance shone as the sun, and he held in his hands a psaltery and harp, and he sang psalms, saying Halleluia! And his voice filled the whole city: at the same time when all they who were on the towers and gates heard him they responded Halleluia! so that the foundations of the city were shaken: and I asked the angel and said, Sir, who is this of so great power? And the angel said to me: This is David: this is the city of Jerusalem, for when Christ the King of Eternity shall come with the assurance of His kingdom, he (David) again shall go before him (David = Elias) that he may sing psalms (new song Rev 14,) and all the just at the same time shall sing psalms responding Halleluia! (Praise Jah - Jahovah - Jahoel) And I said, Sir, how did David alone above the other saints make a beginning of psalm-singing? And the angel answered and said unto me: Because Christ the Son of God sits at the right hand of His Father, and this David sings psalms before him in the seventh heaven, and as is done in the heavens so also below, because the host may not be offered to God without David, but it is necessary that David should sing psalms in the hour of the oblation of the body and blood of Christ (the event to which our sacrament points - "that they may always have His spirit to be with them") : as it is performed in heaven so also on earth. (sitting upon the throne of another to earn the exaltation above - Elohim - Jesus and Michael - David)

Nephi saw stuff - knew things

1 Nephi 14:27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.

28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the Spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

Our prophets have seen stuff - know things

President Eyring

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... u?lang=eng

My hope today is to increase your desire and your ability to receive the Holy Ghost. Remember, He is the third member of the Godhead. The Father and the Son are resurrected beings. The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit. (See D&C 130:22.) It is your choice whether to receive Him and welcome Him into your heart and mind.

Notice what he says next

..Many of us hold images of those scenes in our memories. I once stood with my wife outside a tomb in Jerusalem. Many believe that it was the tomb from which the crucified Savior emerged as a resurrected and living God.

The respectful guide that day motioned with his hand and said to us, “Come, see an empty tomb.”

We stooped to enter. We saw a stone bench against a wall. But into my mind came another picture, as real as what we saw that day. It was of Mary, who was left by the Apostles at the tomb. That is what the Spirit let me see and even hear in my mind, as clearly as if I had been there:
...
These words are said by the Lord’s authorized servant with his hands on our head: “Receive the Holy Ghost.” At that moment you and I have the assurance He will be sent.

I bear testimony that the Father and the Son are sending the Holy Ghost to all who have that gift, ask for that blessing, and seek to be worthy of it. Neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost force Themselves into our lives. We are free to choose. The Lord has said to all:

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith”

I pray with all my heart that you will hear the voice of the Spirit, which is sent to you so generously. And I pray that you will open your heart always to receive Him.

I'll spare you the quote I share so often from President Nelson - that the father and the son will yet do many marvelous works but ... but learning to recognize and receive the Holy Ghost is essential to spiritual survival (paraphrasing.)

Now, I'm not saying next April will be all of this ... I am just commenting on what Adam-Ondi-Ahman means ... It's not just about Adam, and Jesus, but Adam, Jesus, and the Son of Man who is the Holy Ghost - the Angel of the Lord - the messenger of salvation. Receive the Holy Ghost ... this ordinance - just like the pre-Christian ordinances - point to a future fulfillment. The Holy Ghost will come - his name and dominion will be revealed - and he will not force his way into our lives. Yet our spiritual survival will depend upon learning to recognize his voice - and his voice is what the Lord calls "my voice" just as He refers to the Spirit as "my Spirit" for His name is in Him. His family name - His inheritance.

However, I will say that I have a hard time believing that President Nelson would tell us to start preparing now for April unless there is something larger than "live from Palmyra"

Speaking of the Son of Man and the First Vision...

Has anyone ever considered who the Lord was referring to in this revelation to Joseph Smith?

I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15).

Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

Davka can you elaborate on
Wait a minute...hadn’t he already seen the face of the Savior way back in 1820? So what is this “coming” (note: not *second coming * or *return*) of this Son of Man whose face he will someday see?

That is interesting what you wrote

She's referring to the fact the son of man in that scripture is not Jesus Christ but the Holy Ghost.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... n.html?m=1

President Nelson specifically describes the conference as being more than memorable, it will be unforgettable. A nice pageant or a special broadcast to me are memorable events, but I've had only a handful of unforgettable moments in my life, probably 3-4 highly spiritual experiences and then 9/11.

i've been anticipating the end of the 42 months in the spring of 2020 or Passover (April 8) for some time now and I've posted about it more than a few times. i agree that the righteous among us shall trek back and meet the Lord next fall at Adam Ondi Ahman. But before that happens we will see the abomination of desolation of which Ezra Taft Benson spoke. Orson Pratt said:

“Well then, to return to the prophesying, when the time shall come that the Lord shall waste away this nation, he will give commandment to this people to return and possess their own inheritance which they purchased some forty-four years ago in the state of Missouri”. (Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord ,110.)

So before we go to Adam Ondi Ahman "the Lord shall waste away this nation" and that is the first thing we must prepare for. The Lord says in D&C 103:

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, (Russell M. Nelson) who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

Appropriately, just as the Lord delivered ancient Israel on Passover and just as they had to stay inside, so shall it be with us because our deliverance will come by means of "thermonuclear reaction" as Ezra Taft Benson said and we shall have to stay inside or "stand in holy places", Isaiah said:

20 ¶ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

In 2018 President Nelson said, "Wait till next year and then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills, get your rest, it's going to be exciting". Well, now we have yet another clew regarding 2020... Did any of you notice what Elder Quentin L. Cook said: “These efforts, together with those announced during the last two years, are not isolated changes. Each of the adjustments is an integral part of an interlocking pattern to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.”

Everything the church is doing right now "is to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.” Just going to happen much sooner than most of you think in my humble opinion! If you only understood the 42 months...

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 16th, 2019, 10:35 am i've been anticipating the end of the 42 months in the spring of 2020 or Passover (April 8) for some time now and I've posted about it more than a few times. i agree that the righteous among us shall trek back and meet the Lord next fall at Adam Ondi Ahman. But before that happens we will see the abomination of desolation of which Ezra Taft Benson spoke. Orson Pratt said:

“Well then, to return to the prophesying, when the time shall come that the Lord shall waste away this nation, he will give commandment to this people to return and possess their own inheritance which they purchased some forty-four years ago in the state of Missouri”. (Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord ,110.)

So before we go to Adam Ondi Ahman "the Lord shall waste away this nation" and that is the first thing we must prepare for. The Lord says in D&C 103:

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, (Russell M. Nelson) who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

Appropriately, just as the Lord delivered ancient Israel on Passover and just as they had to stay inside, so shall it be with us because our deliverance will come by means of "thermonuclear reaction" as Ezra Taft Benson said and we shall have to stay inside or "stand in holy places", Isaiah said:

20 ¶ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

In 2018 President Nelson said, "Wait till next year and then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills, get your rest, it's going to be exciting". Well, now we have yet another clew regarding 2020... Did any of you notice what Elder Quentin L. Cook said: “These efforts, together with those announced during the last two years, are not isolated changes. Each of the adjustments is an integral part of an interlocking pattern to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.”

Everything the church is doing right now "is to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.” Just going to happen much sooner than most of you think in my humble opinion! If you only understood the 42 months...

I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't another 42 years or much more. Of course it is good to prepare and live our lives as if it were tomorrow or next fall, but also realized that people including our own members have been predicting dates wrong for a long time.

Now before I am accused of just laziness and heresy let me say that I do feel that there is a danger in such beliefs.

I knew a man who died in his late 90's about 20 years ago who was certain the second coming was nigh. He never went to school nor pursued a career because that would be a waste of time if the world was ending within a few months. He did squeak by a basic living as a laborer but I think he put his family at a disadvantage for the next generation at least compared to if he had lived up to his potential by planning for the future.

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 16th, 2019, 10:35 am In 2018 President Nelson said, "Wait till next year and then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills, get your rest, it's going to be exciting". Well, now we have yet another clew regarding 2020... Did any of you notice what Elder Quentin L. Cook said: “These efforts, together with those announced during the last two years, are not isolated changes. Each of the adjustments is an integral part of an interlocking pattern to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.”

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 16th, 2019, 10:35 am i've been anticipating the end of the 42 months in the spring of 2020 or Passover (April 8) for some time now

I really struggle seeing how anyone can think that we've even started the 42 months yet. To me I see things lining up for it to begin within the next few years but to say that it's going to end in April leaves me scratching my head. I kind of hope you're right but I can't see how it's been fulfilled thus far. The end of the 42 months is marked by Adamandiahmen. At least that's how I interpret it.

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑October 17th, 2019, 12:47 pm

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 16th, 2019, 10:35 am i've been anticipating the end of the 42 months in the spring of 2020 or Passover (April 8) for some time now

I really struggle seeing how anyone can think that we've even started the 42 months yet. To me I see things lining up for it to begin within the next few years but to say that it's going to end in April leaves me scratching my head. I kind of hope you're right but I can't see how it's been fulfilled thus far. The end of the 42 months is marked by Adamandiahmen. At least that's how I interpret it.

The last 7 years of the wicked on earth does not even start until about 160 years after the earth is burned with fire. The earth after the burning will be "restored" to its paradisiacal glory. The earthly New Jerusalem will be built in troublous times. That means that the old covenant has not reached consummation. The consummation of the old covenant and the full implementation of the new covenant happens in Revelation 21:4 & 21:8. It is also the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24-27.

"even until the consummation, and that determined (Rev 21:8) shall be poured upon the desolate" -- Dan 9:27

"to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins (Rev 21:4), and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness" -- Dan 9:24

The wages of sin is death. As long as there is death sin has not been made an end of. In Rev 21:4 there is no more death from that point in time. That is why Dan 9:24-27 are strictly "new earth" prophecies. Therefore the son of perdition, the man of sin, the Antichrist will not come to power until after the earth itself enters its period of paradisiacal glory. The individual that is (will be) the AC lived long ago. He will be resurrected upon the paradisiacal earth.

The Lord revealed to me long ago who the rider on the white horse is in both the forward fulfillment of the 7 seals and who the rider of the white horse is in the reverse fulfillment of the seven seals. One is a king of kings and the other is The King of kings. After this earth is burned with fire and the resurrected are upon the paradisiacal earth the resurrected Nebuchadnezzar will be made king over the whole earth. Two kings will follow. Then the kingdom will split up into ten kingdoms. It is those ten kings that will give their power to the beast to rule for one hour.

Ancient Israel is a type and shadow of the timing of the four horsemen. Saul ruled Israel for 40 (some say 32) years, David ruled for 40 (32) years and Solomon ruled for 40 (32) years. Then Israel split into two kingdoms. That is why it will be about 160 years after the burning of the earth before the last 7 years takes place.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/chu ... e?lang=eng

April 2020 conference is scheduled to be from the conference center. Doesn't look like they will be broadcasting from a church historical site.

friendsofthe wrote: ↑October 16th, 2019, 10:35 am i've been anticipating the end of the 42 months in the spring of 2020 or Passover (April 8) for some time now and I've posted about it more than a few times. i agree that the righteous among us shall trek back and meet the Lord next fall at Adam Ondi Ahman. But before that happens we will see the abomination of desolation of which Ezra Taft Benson spoke. Orson Pratt said:

“Well then, to return to the prophesying, when the time shall come that the Lord shall waste away this nation, he will give commandment to this people to return and possess their own inheritance which they purchased some forty-four years ago in the state of Missouri”. (Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord ,110.)

So before we go to Adam Ondi Ahman "the Lord shall waste away this nation" and that is the first thing we must prepare for. The Lord says in D&C 103:

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, (Russell M. Nelson) who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

Appropriately, just as the Lord delivered ancient Israel on Passover and just as they had to stay inside, so shall it be with us because our deliverance will come by means of "thermonuclear reaction" as Ezra Taft Benson said and we shall have to stay inside or "stand in holy places", Isaiah said:

20 ¶ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

In 2018 President Nelson said, "Wait till next year and then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills, get your rest, it's going to be exciting". Well, now we have yet another clew regarding 2020... Did any of you notice what Elder Quentin L. Cook said: “These efforts, together with those announced during the last two years, are not isolated changes. Each of the adjustments is an integral part of an interlocking pattern to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.”

Everything the church is doing right now "is to bless the Saints and prepare them to meet God.” Just going to happen much sooner than most of you think in my humble opinion! If you only understood the 42 months...

Just so I understand where you are coming from: you believe that the next five months are going to be filled with apocalyptic circumstances culminating in the AOA meeting this April? I ask for clarification because I sped read your post and am trying to respond before starting dinner, and I tend to misunderstand things when I do that.

I see that in this forum people are more awaken to the time when Jesus returns than in the church in general and the YouTube channel I posted the next paragraphs. He's coming soon. I'm not gonna post my personal revelation because I'm not the prophet. It's not mine to give to you. However I would like to ask you to ask Heavenly Father in the temple or fasting when is He coming, for your own sake. He will teach you all the truth thru the Holy Ghost. Last year I woke up to to how near we are. I found clear signs: soon Temple in Jerusalem project, Manchild sign in the stars (September 2017), Russian troops north of Israel's border (Israel will be attacked from the north)... Before 2018 I thought we had another 30 or 40 years & I thought that was little. This is what I wrote to other lds members less awake/aware (no offense intended) than people in this forum:

Can't anyone get it? Joseph Smith said that the scripture that says something like "no one knows the hour or day of the coming of the Lord" applied to the time when that scripture was uttered. & he continued saying that of course the prophet would know.

In other words pres. Nelson probably knows when Jesus Christ is coming. That's why the changes; that's why pres. Nelson & the apostles keep saying we have to get the world ready for the Millennium; that's why pres. Nelson said "time is running out", that's why pres. Nelson said to the youth a few months ago (2018, I believe) that among them are the last missionaries (That doesn't mean all of the ones that were 12-18 will serve a mission, before the Millennium anyway. The ones that were 17 might be the last ones.) ...

That's why Jesus said He comes as a thief in the night (when nobody expects Him); that's why the TEN (not just the foolish) are found asleep when the bridegroom comes (they're not lazy, just go to sleep/not aware because they don't realize how soon He comes (as a thief indeed); the world is still relatively calm because people still marry as in Noah's time; that's why some people think He's delayed for His coming (because they are in despair thinking that He will still take ages, but He'll come long before they think); that's why some of His servants strike/hit/slap other servants thinking that He will still take a long time to return if at all.

Can you not join the dots? This is the mystery of Jesus return. I'm not the prophet or anybody special, but the signs are clear enough to know He won't take decades or even a decade to return.

By the way if some Christians have seen the signs then the devil must have seen them and then it applies the scripture that says something like "the devil knows that he has but a short time". So he must wreck the world before Jesus Christ returns.

Eulate wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2019, 2:39 pm I see that in this forum people are more awaken to the time when Jesus returns than in the church in general and the YouTube channel I posted the next paragraphs. He's coming soon. I'm not gonna post my personal revelation because I'm not the prophet. It's not mine to give to you. However I would like to ask you to ask Heavenly Father in the temple or fasting when is He coming, for your own sake. He will teach you all the truth thru the Holy Ghost. Last year I woke up to to how near we are. I found clear signs: soon Temple in Jerusalem project, Manchild sign in the stars (September 2017), Russian troops north of Israel's border (Israel will be attacked from the north)... Before 2018 I thought we had another 30 or 40 years & I thought that was little. This is what I wrote to other lds members less awake/aware (no offense intended) than people in this forum:

Can't anyone get it? Joseph Smith said that the scripture that says something like "no one knows the hour or day of the coming of the Lord" applied to the time when that scripture was uttered. & he continued saying that of course the prophet would know.

In other words pres. Nelson probably knows when Jesus Christ is coming. That's why the changes; that's why pres. Nelson & the apostles keep saying we have to get the world ready for the Millennium; that's why pres. Nelson said "time is running out", that's why pres. Nelson said to the youth a few months ago (2018, I believe) that among them are the last missionaries (That doesn't mean all of the ones that were 12-18 will serve a mission, before the Millennium anyway. The ones that were 17 might be the last ones.) ...

That's why Jesus said He comes as a thief in the night (when nobody expects Him); that's why the TEN (not just the foolish) are found asleep when the bridegroom comes (they're not lazy, just go to sleep/not aware because they don't realize how soon He comes (as a thief indeed); the world is still relatively calm because people still marry as in Noah's time; that's why some people think He's delayed for His coming (because they are in despair thinking that He will still take ages, but He'll come long before they think); that's why some of His servants strike/hit/slap other servants thinking that He will still take a long time to return if at all.

Can you not join the dots? This is the mystery of Jesus return. I'm not the prophet or anybody special, but the signs are clear enough to know He won't take decades or even a decade to return.

It is my contention that we may not know the day or hour but His people that are attuned to the spirit will at least know maybe the month he will return.

About the thief in the night statement, I have been having the thought over and over that it just might mean that he comes BEFORE we believe he must come. The people do not even entertain the second coming until this or that happens and say it must be decades or even centuries away yet. If he comes when everyone expects, then he’s not like a thief in the night. The warning to not procrastinate could very well mean, he’s going to catch us off guard maybe at the time the slothful begin to get more serious but before they are “right” with the lord. He doesn’t reward the slothful servant, but the servant who is faithful.

What do you think of the switch over from our state now and the millennium? Will it be sudden or gradual? I have noticed a subtle change in some people regarding meat consumption, my self included. I hunt every year with my family for our meat supply, last years supply has not yet run out because we started eating significantly less this year. We’re set to hunt usually nov 1st every year and it’s a strictly kept schedule but we have not yet gone this year. And we’re not even discussing it!
When I think about doing it this year, I get a almost queasy feeling in my gut and have basically zero desire It’s weird because that’s our food supply.
In the millennium we will not eat meat. And I have also noticed this in other members of my family that I have talked to and of course the steep increase in vegan/vegetarian in society.

Could this and other shifts be preparing us for a sudden change soon or is the change already happening?

Also, how long do you believe we have before the Savior reveals himself?

Not everyone was wicked. Even during the darkest of the Nephite days a Mormon and a Moroni happened.

I do think we will likely see some kind of schism in our people, but maybe it will not be what some expect.

I don’t want to see such a thing, but I do think the world will fall sharper downward and many saints will follow and that will be where the contention arises. I don’t see it as coming from the leadership.

They don’t seem, at present, as giving much ground to the world. Some argue they certain recent changes are capitulations but I don’t agree.

I think the only way for our people to survive is by casting off all of the things that are non-doctrinal old traditions.

It’s like if you plane is crashing and the only way to survive is casting off all the heavy items that are not essential. I think what we are seeing is a deliberate shedding of dead weight so that all that remains is what is essential.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2019, 3:45 pm

Eulate wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2019, 2:39 pm I see that in this forum people are more awaken to the time when Jesus returns than in the church in general and the YouTube channel I posted the next paragraphs. He's coming soon. I'm not gonna post my personal revelation because I'm not the prophet. It's not mine to give to you. However I would like to ask you to ask Heavenly Father in the temple or fasting when is He coming, for your own sake. He will teach you all the truth thru the Holy Ghost. Last year I woke up to to how near we are. I found clear signs: soon Temple in Jerusalem project, Manchild sign in the stars (September 2017), Russian troops north of Israel's border (Israel will be attacked from the north)... Before 2018 I thought we had another 30 or 40 years & I thought that was little. This is what I wrote to other lds members less awake/aware (no offense intended) than people in this forum:

Can't anyone get it? Joseph Smith said that the scripture that says something like "no one knows the hour or day of the coming of the Lord" applied to the time when that scripture was uttered. & he continued saying that of course the prophet would know.

In other words pres. Nelson probably knows when Jesus Christ is coming. That's why the changes; that's why pres. Nelson & the apostles keep saying we have to get the world ready for the Millennium; that's why pres. Nelson said "time is running out", that's why pres. Nelson said to the youth a few months ago (2018, I believe) that among them are the last missionaries (That doesn't mean all of the ones that were 12-18 will serve a mission, before the Millennium anyway. The ones that were 17 might be the last ones.) ...

That's why Jesus said He comes as a thief in the night (when nobody expects Him); that's why the TEN (not just the foolish) are found asleep when the bridegroom comes (they're not lazy, just go to sleep/not aware because they don't realize how soon He comes (as a thief indeed); the world is still relatively calm because people still marry as in Noah's time; that's why some people think He's delayed for His coming (because they are in despair thinking that He will still take ages, but He'll come long before they think); that's why some of His servants strike/hit/slap other servants thinking that He will still take a long time to return if at all.

Can you not join the dots? This is the mystery of Jesus return. I'm not the prophet or anybody special, but the signs are clear enough to know He won't take decades or even a decade to return.

It is my contention that we may not know the day or hour but His people that are attuned to the spirit will at least know maybe the month he will return.

About the thief in the night statement, I have been having the thought over and over that it just might mean that he comes BEFORE we believe he must come. The people do not even entertain the second coming until this or that happens and say it must be decades or even centuries away yet. If he comes when everyone expects, then he’s not like a thief in the night. The warning to not procrastinate could very well mean, he’s going to catch us off guard maybe at the time the slothful begin to get more serious but before they are “right” with the lord. He doesn’t reward the slothful servant, but the servant who is faithful.

What do you think of the switch over from our state now and the millennium? Will it be sudden or gradual? I have noticed a subtle change in some people regarding meat consumption, my self included. I hunt every year with my family for our meat supply, last years supply has not yet run out because we started eating significantly less this year. We’re set to hunt usually nov 1st every year and it’s a strictly kept schedule but we have not yet gone this year. And we’re not even discussing it!
When I think about doing it this year, I get a almost queasy feeling in my gut and have basically zero desire It’s weird because that’s our food supply.
In the millennium we will not eat meat. And I have also noticed this in other members of my family that I have talked to and of course the steep increase in vegan/vegetarian in society.

Could this and other shifts be preparing us for a sudden change soon or is the change already happening?

Also, how long do you believe we have before the Savior reveals himself?

I have felt the same nudge with meat consumption, as has my mother. I didn’t realize I wasn’t alone in that.

Also, the thief in the night analogy to me could very well imply that he comes and the majority are asleep. I wonder if it refers to a coming most people are unaware of. It is until morning that they wake up and say “Wait! What the heck happened last night?” The idea of a thief is that he comes and gets away. This isn’t necessarily armed robbery where everyone gets woken up and knows the thief is there.

I agree with so much of what you said here, though.

I love many of the passionate ideas and interpretations that have been posted. I read all the websites and blogs you endearingly and bravely share. Regardless of the exact series of events in the near future, I pray that we stay humble, learn to master personal revelation, and exemplify charity in all we do.

For those struggling with personal revelation, may I suggest a BYU devotional given by Elder Holland in 1999

https://youtu.be/pCSs4f9DlVM

May we stand tall in the tribulation ahead.

Eulate wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2019, 2:39 pm that's why pres. Nelson said to the youth a few months ago (2018, I believe) that among them are the last missionaries (That doesn't mean all of the ones that were 12-18 will serve a mission, before the Millennium anyway. The ones that were 17 might be the last ones.) ...

Can you reference that?