LDS Freedom Forum

justme wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:01 am I thought that today would be a good day to think and read more about the concept of conspiracy theories. There are several hypothesis on the psychological phenomenon of conspiracy theories. But one that I had not considered before relates to our Mormon culture.

One unfortunate aspect of our culture is elitism. Some go so far as to build this into their theology. For instance some insist that a third part means one third and thus think that our Heavenly Father and his divine plan was so weak that he lost 33 percent of his children right off the bat. They then build up their understanding of the plan of salvation to think that a very small percentage (often less than 10%) will inherit the Celestial Kingdom. This then leads to a daily philosophy of us being a special people that shouldn't be contaminated by all those others that are not just like us. This elitism and judgementalism is one of the most unsavory aspects of our culture.

Back to conspiracy theories: A social psychologist at the Johanes Gutenburg University Mainz states

"Belief in conspiracies can serve to set oneself apart from the ignorant masses—a self-serving boast about one’s exclusive knowledge. Adherence to conspiracy theory might not always be the result of some perceived lack of control, but rather a deep-seated need for uniqueness"
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kg8 ... el-special

Is there an overlap between our cultural elitism and this psychological view of conspiracy theories?

justme wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:01 am . . . . . "Belief in conspiracies can serve to set oneself apart from the ignorant masses—a self-serving boast about one’s exclusive knowledge. Adherence to conspiracy theory might not always be the result of some perceived lack of control, but rather a deep-seated need for uniqueness"
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kg8 ... el-special . . . . .

caburnha wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:39 amRead Ether 8... Better yet, read the Book of Mormon. Satan rules the rulers of this world through conspiracy, blood, horror, and money.

justme wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:01 am I thought that today would be a good day to think and read more about the concept of conspiracy theories. There are several hypothesis on the psychological phenomenon of conspiracy theories. But one tubhat I had not considered before relates to our Mormon culture.

One unfortunate aspect of our culture is elitism. Some go so far as to build this into their theology. For instance some insist that a third part means one third and thus think that our Heavenly Father and his divine plan was so weak that he lost 33 percent of his children right off the bat. They then build up their understanding of the plan of salvation to think that a very small percentage (often less than 10%) will inherit the Celestial Kingdom. This then leads to a daily philosophy of us being a special people that shouldn't be contaminated by all those others that are not just like us. This elitism and judgementalism is one of the most unsavory aspects of our culture.

Back to conspiracy theories: A social psychologist at the Johanes Gutenburg University Mainz states

"Belief in conspiracies can serve to set oneself apart from the ignorant masses—a self-serving boast about one’s exclusive knowledge. Adherence to conspiracy theory might not always be the result of some perceived lack of control, but rather a deep-seated need for uniqueness"
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kg8 ... el-special

Is there an overlap between our cultural elitism and this psychological view of conspiracy theories?

Brother B. wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:01 pm Also, Benson was with us (conspiracy truthists).

"There is no 'conspiracy theory' in the Book of Mormon. It is a conspiracy fact." (Ezra Taft Benson)

caburnha wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:22 pm

Brother B. wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:01 pm Also, Benson was with us (conspiracy truthists).

"There is no 'conspiracy theory' in the Book of Mormon. It is a conspiracy fact." (Ezra Taft Benson)

Reading the book he recommended (but then was never allowed to go into the printed form of the talk) changed my life. None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen.

justme wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:01 am For instance some insist that a third part means one third and thus think that our Heavenly Father and his divine plan was so weak that he lost 33 percent of his children right off the bat....

I am a “conspiracy theorist.” I believe men and women of wealth and power conspire. If you don't think so, then you are what is called “an idiot.” If you believe stuff but fear the label, you are what is called “a coward.”

thestock wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:03 pm If you rely on the supernatural or on conspiracies that cannot be proven, then your equation is not balanced correctly. This is the problem with the story of the translation of the gold plates. It introduces God into a the production of a book that is actually quite flawed and very, VERY easily explained by human production.

The same problem exists with conspiracy theories. Though they often are the cause of things....defaulting to them as a response for most of how the world works is a TWISTED and INCORRECT worldview brought on by Mormonism (in MY experience for ME, not speaking for anyone else) and the equation is so badly out of balance it would be nice if our Church could stop with the "persecution complex" and just focus on how to make the Members' lives as rewarding as possible.

gkearney wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 3:04 pm The problem I am having with all this conspiracy stuff, even including the statements from President Benson is this. No one ever seem willing to give any specifics to this. They will not name names, date, places. They will not cite specific and verifiable actions of specific people. It's all this soft of vague notion that there are people, never named, who are involved in some grand conspiracy of some kind. No one is ever able to give an outline of just what specifically is being done and by who and for what reason.

A conspiracy on the scale spoken of would involved tens if not hundreds of thousands of people as well as organizations and even government yet not once in all the general conference talks do you get the names of these. Why is that? No offence is meant here but just how is anyone supposed to fight a conspiracy when we don't know who, where, or how to fight against it? Just some unspecific warning against an unspecific group of unnamed people really isn't very helpful.

You wonder why we don't hear more about it anymore? Perhaps this is the reason.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 3:07 pm

justme wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:01 am For instance some insist that a third part means one third and thus think that our Heavenly Father and his divine plan was so weak that he lost 33 percent of his children right off the bat....

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the plan was "weak" because some people chose not to follow it?

If you want to say that the Father's plan is a failure if too many people make the wrong choices and get the wrong consequences, then you have to end up concluding that agency isn't all that central to our progression, and that's what the other plan is for.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 3:41 pm As for all this talk about conspiracy theories, I think that the not-so-recent tweet from the Cornell Professor David Collum pretty much sums it up:

I am a “conspiracy theorist.” I believe men and women of wealth and power conspire. If you don't think so, then you are what is called “an idiot.” If you believe stuff but fear the label, you are what is called “a coward.”

The Book of Mormon makes it pretty clear that "secret combinations" - plans made outside the public eye, by the powerful, to get gain - can do a civilization in. The the prophets who wrote the Book of Mormon wouldn't have spent so much time on that theme if it wasn't important to us in our day.

Now, judging by the date that the OP has chosen for this discussion, I figure that the "conspiracy theories" in mind are the sort of things like chemtrails, or the claim that 9/11 was an inside job, or that the Moon Landing was faked. Well, my opinion on those are that they're pure distractions. Believing in one of those things, and harping on it all the time, is a pretty good way to avoid thinking about the more serious evils that are doing our country in.

The defenders of those evils don't come out and say in plain language what it is they're defending, since that would make them sound too villainous. But in a society as indifferent as ours, you can afford to do a half-hearted job covering up your evil deeds. Just consider the fact that:

1) Nobody is trying to make a secret of the fact that abortion has been legal in this country since the 1970s, and the number of dead people will reliably increase by a little over a million with each passing year. Furthermore, the fact that this was accomplished by judicial fiat, rather than by elected legislatures, proves that America has no better of a claim to be a democracy than Red China or the Soviet Union do.

2) A half-hour or so of googling is enough to reveal that ADHD drugs like Ritalin and Adderall, on which about 11% of the country's children are being raised, produce no lasting benefits, and lead to permanent deficits in the same neutrotransmitters that they're increasing in the short term, in addition to causing other harms such as a more aggressive personality and stunted growth. Meanwhile, many of the doctors promoting the drugs are getting handsome kickbacks from the pharmaceutical industry. The fact that child-drugging is still considered a legitimate treatment for a legitimate disease - on account of its effectiveness in producing the desired short-term behaviour changes - is proof enough that modern America is a dystopian hellhole that will sacrifice anything for the sake of conformity.

3) If you've read a single decent book on economics, you'll understand that banks can't create wealth by printing money; all they can do is move it around. The entire edifice of modern monetary policy serves the purpose of enriching the people who control the central banks at the expense of literally everybody else. The United States, by exporting so much fiat money, has thrown much of its own workforce into unemployment (since exports don't need to balance imports anymore) while at the same time allowing America's upper classes to mooch off of foreign workforces as the country as a whole consumes more goods than it produces. Donald Trump's trade war - like all attempts to address the trade deficit by doing anything other than ending the Fed - is just a distraction from the fact that America is a pirate state, and will have no need for a workforce of its own as long as it possesses the power to loot the wealth of the rest of the world instead of relying on its own people to make its own goods.

The list could go on. The point is, there's no need to try really hard to cover these things up: just don't talk about them in plain terms, and the indifference of the average citizen is a strong enough force to put a lid on any potential blowback. Meanwhile, the people who assert that the moon landing was faked, that 9/11 was an inside job, or that chemtrails are for real, are just a bunch of useful idiots who play into the Gadiantons' hands by helping to keep everybody distracted from the real evils all around them.

gkearney wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 3:04 pm The problem I am having with all this conspiracy stuff, even including the statements from President Benson is this. No one ever seem willing to give any specifics to this. They will not name names, date, places. They will not cite specific and verifiable actions of specific people. It's all this soft of vague notion that there are people, never named, who are involved in some grand conspiracy of some kind. No one is ever able to give an outline of just what specifically is being done and by who and for what reason.

larsenb wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 4:17 pm Mixing up very questionable propositions: faked moon landing, with very horrible, physical/psychological tragedies affecting people on a world-wide scale (e.g., the events of 9/11) is a form of straw man argumentation. There is nothing that would prevent high level conspirators from enabling/encouraging many of the things you mention as the main ills of the world, AND perpetrating events such as 9/11, etc., for their own purposes

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 4:41 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 4:17 pm Mixing up very questionable propositions: faked moon landing, with very horrible, physical/psychological tragedies affecting people on a world-wide scale (e.g., the events of 9/11) is a form of straw man argumentation. There is nothing that would prevent high level conspirators from enabling/encouraging many of the things you mention as the main ills of the world, AND perpetrating events such as 9/11, etc., for their own purposes

I'm not equating the Moon Landing with 9/11, which was definitely a real tragedy - I'm just equating the belief that the Moon Landing was faked with the belief that 9/11 was an inside job, in the sense that both are conspiracy theories which I disbelieve.

No doubt there has been plenty of lying and evil intent behind getting America into the various Middle Eastern wars of the last quarter century; nevertheless, I think that for the 9/11 attacks, the simplest explanation is the best - namely, that Al Qaeda did it. There is no lack of motivation or means on their part, and no convincing evidence of a false-flag attack on the other hand.

markharr wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:53 pm

caburnha wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:22 pm

Brother B. wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 1:01 pm Also, Benson was with us (conspiracy truthists).

"There is no 'conspiracy theory' in the Book of Mormon. It is a conspiracy fact." (Ezra Taft Benson)

Reading the book he recommended (but then was never allowed to go into the printed form of the talk) changed my life. None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen.

Published almost 50 years ago and still as relevant as it was back then.