LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm**

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... eyard.html

The Servant of the Vineyard is The Holy Ghost.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Servant of Isaiah.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Angel of the Lord who bears the ineffable name.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Davidic Servant. The ineffable name signifies inheritance. The family name of the Lord!

These are all the same person - the heir to the Davidic Covenant. He is the one who has been pruning, digging, nourishing, and destroying the dead branches by casting them into the fire; and, the servant is the one who leads the gathering of fruit of the vineyard at the end. The servant is not "The Prophet." He is the Angel of the Lord.

With every new article, I feel more emboldened to get on a high horse and start chastising you all for spending all your time in fluffy and silly threads. Would that I could say that you all would rather entertain folks who are either crazy or possessed or both. For as I add to the many evidences to unlock perhaps the greatest mystery of our world that has been hidden from the foundation of the world... these threads go largely unanswered and disappear into the ether. Yet my message has been consistent since the beginning - the Davidic Servant is the 8th angel in authority below the seven patriarchs. He is the davidic heir to Jesus Christ - the beloved of Jesus as Jesus is beloved of Elohim. Apocryphon after apocryphon are "coincidentally" confirming this message - yet let's spend time contending over these "coincidental" distractions of those claiming to be Jesus or the Man Child.

Would that I didn't have to speak with such harsh words to you all. You are the children of Joseph, inheritor of the birthright of Abraham. You ought to stand a little taller and not let yourselves be drawn away into useless paths by the distractions of the devil. His tools are everywhere, and they're working overtime to distract from what is unfolding before you now. Lo here and lo there! Focus!

That's what I would say if I were on a high horse. Good thing I'm not right? Imagine how upset you all would get.

However, Jesus didn't ride into Jerusalem on a high horse, did He? He rode in on a Donkey ... guiding a young colt into Jerusalem. What does that little colt represent?

This is the mystery that is solved for you now, but many of you would rather remain latched onto milk while the meatiest mystery from the foundation of the world is solved before you. The Bridegroom is the Davidic heir ... the Lord's spiritually begotten son who becomes His firstborn.

Revelation 20:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm**

Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 3:55 pm**

You've done your homework, Alaris, which makes me comfortable asking questions in a non-confrontational manner as I come as one having not done the same study on this topic as you have.

On that note, I have two quick questions that perhaps you can answer if you're inviting some doctrinal meat mastication for the masses:

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm He is the one who has been pruning, digging, nourishing, and destroying the dead branches by casting them into the fire; and, the servant is the one who leads the gathering of fruit of the vineyard at the end. The servant is not "The Prophet." He is the Angel of the Lord.

Are you saying that he will or will not take a body in mortality? Are you also saying that he will not lead the ecclesiastical organization (the church) as the prophet in his time?

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 3:56 pm**

Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.

Your faith is greater than mine for I can not imagine awakening to this mystery by faith alone. And, of course, some things have been hidden, intentionally so. Eventually we will all see eye to eye.

Isaiah 35:3 ¶ Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Wow - Isaiah is truly incredible. The way of holiness is the path of the Holy Ghost. Becoming holy is how one achieves Firstborn status. That is what the term Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit means ... the spiritually begotten heir who is holy. Not perfect - but a state where condemnation ceases, and the final progression towards become a Son of Elohim begins. You could say this is the beginning of the process - becoming the Word of God / The Messenger of Salvation. The alpha step.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm**

Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:55 pm You've done your homework, Alaris, which makes me comfortable asking questions in a non-confrontational manner as I come as one having not done the same study on this topic as you have.

On that note, I have two quick questions that perhaps you can answer if you're inviting some doctrinal meat mastication for the masses:

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm He is the one who has been pruning, digging, nourishing, and destroying the dead branches by casting them into the fire; and, the servant is the one who leads the gathering of fruit of the vineyard at the end. The servant is not "The Prophet." He is the Angel of the Lord.
Are you saying that he will or will not take a body in mortality? Are you also saying that he will not lead the ecclesiastical organization (the church) as the prophet in his time?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's me breathing a long sigh of relief to have you back in rotation here on LDSFF.

Joseph Smith said the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - and somehow that fact bounces off our collective skulls as though it were never spoken.

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

Of course the scriptures agree once the key of understanding is had that the Holy Ghost IS the Davidic heir. Isaiah 51:9-10 (and a few more verses after) imply mortality as the davidic servant of Isaiah - who is the Holy Ghost - is awakened to his identity. This strongly implies the veil of mortality.

And the message to the sixth angel of the sixth church (read the article at the beginning of the OP to see the connection of the number six to the seraphim and to the servant) is the message to the chief of the order of seraphim - the Davidic Servant. The Ascension of Isaiah indicates there's no throne in the sixth heaven, which is itself a meaty conversation.

Revelation 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon

Of course "he that hath an ear" implies that the seraphim themselves are the only ones who will "hear" this message which is why we have had this scripture for millenia and have not "seen."

Of course the above verses tie back to Isaiah and the fourth token of the Priesthood - which is the token of becoming both King and Priest - these verses also tie back to the Davidic Covenant in many, many ways. The crown, the keeping from temptation at the end of the world. This is the end times king david - could it be any clearer? The Jews will worship this angel ... the same angel John worships - he is but an angel when the angel tells John to get up, but will be a God at the end. "He shall be their God and they shall be his people" This is how firstborn are made worlds without end.

Isaiah 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.
In speaking of the fullness of the Priesthood Joseph Smith suddenly mentions the Holy Ghost in one sermon (quoted above) and mentions the Latter-day David in another (Elias, Elijah, Messiah) - The prophets have been chomping at the bit to lay out this mystery from the beginning. Joseph Smith said:

Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this stand who would want to take my life.
Quoted by Orson F. Whtiney, Life of Heber C. Kimball (Salt Lake City: Kimball Family, 1888), 322

Imagine if Joseph Smith said he was one of these holy men - of the seven principal patriarchs & princes who are both priests and kings - and imagine if he told them (us) that he was higher in authority than the Holy Ghost himself. Would they not have called it blasphemy? Would some today not call it blasphemy, even with the glowing hindsight spectacles we while looking at our beloved prophet and founder.

As for the Davidic Servant leading the church - I wish I could shake everyone by the shoulders who asks this. We are Israel. The throne and Kingdom of David is not Judah but all twelve tribes - all of Israel. D&C 133 is a fantastic read here with the key of understanding that the one wearing red is the Davidic heir.

Though I don't know how things will unfold, the twelve apostles are seraphim. The Davidic Servant is chief of the seraphim. Joseph Smith and the other six patriarchs are above all the seraphim including the Davidic Servant. They are they who the Lord said are holy and under no condemnation. Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts is the anthem of the Seraphim in Isaiah 6. If all the seraphim and the servant are in a room with any of the seven - that archangel presides as we model here on earth with our general authorities.

Part of me wonders if the servant will remain hidden until the great sign ... D&C 133 seems to imply this as does 2 Esdras 13 (apocrypha.) Largely hidden or completely hidden? I don't know. Where will the church be and how will they assimilate? I do not know. Revelation 12 suggests the church may be taken away when the man child is born. The woman gives birth to the kingdom of God. Does the woman become an appendage at that point or is she fulfilled just like the law of Moses was fulfilled? I don't know, but I can say the apostles will answer to him and not the other way around.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:56 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.
Your faith is greater than mine for I can not imagine awakening to this mystery by faith alone. And, of course, some things have been hidden, intentionally so. Eventually we will all see eye to eye.

Isaiah 35:3 ¶ Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Wow - Isaiah is truly incredible. The way of holiness is the path of the Holy Ghost. Becoming holy is how one achieves Firstborn status. That is what the term Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit means ... the spiritually begotten heir who is holy. Not perfect - but a state where condemnation ceases, and the final progression towards become a Son of Elohim begins. You could say this is the beginning of the process - becoming the Word of God / The Messenger of Salvation. The alpha step.

I have yet to dig into your posts or deep knowledge, however I have a question about this. Are you suggesting (as I've wondered before) that the path to godhood is through taking the positions of Holy Ghost (a davidic servant of sorts), a Savior (redeemer or ultimate sacrifice), and then a Father? Maybe I'm reading to far into it.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 4:37 pm**

SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:56 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.
Your faith is greater than mine for I can not imagine awakening to this mystery by faith alone. And, of course, some things have been hidden, intentionally so. Eventually we will all see eye to eye.

Isaiah 35:3 ¶ Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Wow - Isaiah is truly incredible. The way of holiness is the path of the Holy Ghost. Becoming holy is how one achieves Firstborn status. That is what the term Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit means ... the spiritually begotten heir who is holy. Not perfect - but a state where condemnation ceases, and the final progression towards become a Son of Elohim begins. You could say this is the beginning of the process - becoming the Word of God / The Messenger of Salvation. The alpha step.
I have yet to dig into your posts or deep knowledge, however I have a question about this. Are you suggesting (as I've wondered before) that the path to godhood is through taking the positions of Holy Ghost (a davidic servant of sorts), a Savior (redeemer or ultimate sacrifice), and then a Father? Maybe I'm reading to far into it.

That's exactly what he's saying

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 4:38 pm**

D&C 88:92 And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.

94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven— (see Revelation 3:12 in the last post)

98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.

Like I said earlier, these clues are literally all over the place. With such a wild claim that the Holy Ghost is the Bridegroom - the one wearing red, rather than Jesus - you'd think just one of these scriptures would unravel it all but they all reinforce this truth. The angel who sounds the first resurrection is the one who appears in the sign - and he is the one who destroys the mother of abominations.

If D&C 88 above is sequential, then the half hour of silence doesn't even begin until after the great sign - unless it is the Revelation 12 sign rather than the sign of the son of man that Joseph Smith taught would cause folks to wonder at it being a planet or a comet. One of the accounts indicates there are two stars or planets that appear. Father and Son maybe?

“Then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the East.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 287).

“He [Joseph] says then shall they see the sign of the comeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it ans[wer], As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and Shineth unto the west— So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy s[o] also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes, Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a natural cause. They will probably suppose it is two great Comets comeing in contact with each other. It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger until it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it.” (“Discourse, 6 April 1843–B, as Reported by James Burgess,” p. [4], The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed June 18, 2017, The Joseph Smith Papers Discourse 6 April 1843 by James Burgess

If I am wrong about who the Son of Man is at this sign, you'd think just once - just once - Joseph Smith would have slipped up and called him Jesus. Of course Jesus is the Son of Man - but so is the Holy Ghost. As Jesus is the Son of Man of Holiness, the Holy Spirit is spiritually begotten as the Son of Man of Jesus Christ. That's what this great reveal is! Two comets coming into contact with each other? My, who could be those two comets if not the Father and the Son. But which Father and which Son? That is the mystery that is being unveiled.

"And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." (Isa. 40:5.)

What is the glory of the Lord? The immortality and eternal life of man .... and the one who is crowned to go no more out (revelation 3) - is the one who is receiving that promise as he receives the presence and true name of the Father and new name of the Son (as a Father.) Let's read the promise one more time:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

What does it mean to have written upon you the name of God?

Edit

Compare D&C 88 above to 133

D&C 133:36 And now, verily saith the Lord, that these things might be known among you, O inhabitants of the earth, I have sent forth mine angel flying through the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, who hath appeared unto some and hath committed it unto man, who shall appear unto many that dwell on the earth.

42 O Lord, thou shalt come down to make thy name known to thine adversaries, and all nations shall tremble at thy presence— (Isaiah says this about the Davidic Servant)

43 When thou doest terrible things, things they look not for;

44 Yea, when thou comest down, and the mountains flow down at thy presence, thou shalt meet him who rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, who remembereth thee in thy ways. (Isaiah)

45 For since the beginning of the world have not men heard nor perceived by the ear, neither hath any eye seen, O God, besides thee, how great things thou hast prepared for him that waiteth for thee. (Mystery hidden from the beginning to the end)

46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?

47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save. (biggest key word of the servant and not just in Isaiah)

48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.

49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.

50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me; (Only the angel of the Lord can make this claim. Joseph Smith said the Lesser Priesthood bears the role of judgement and destruction)

51 And I have trampled them in my fury, and I did tread upon them in mine anger, and their blood have I sprinkled upon my garments, and stained all my raiment; for this was the day of vengeance which was in my heart.(just as the firstborn of Egypt, the armies of Pharoah, and the 185,000 assyrians)

52 And now the year of my redeemed is come; and they shall mention the loving kindness of their Lord, and all that he has bestowed upon them according to his goodness, and according to his loving kindness, forever and ever. (MY redeemed - shall, shall, shall = Ezekiel 37)

53 In all their afflictions he was afflicted. And the angel of his presence saved them; and in his love, and in his pity, he redeemed them, and bore them, and carried them all the days of old;(And the angel of his presence saved them .... The Angel of the Lord)

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 7:03 pm**

Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:37 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:56 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.
Your faith is greater than mine for I can not imagine awakening to this mystery by faith alone. And, of course, some things have been hidden, intentionally so. Eventually we will all see eye to eye.

Isaiah 35:3 ¶ Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Wow - Isaiah is truly incredible. The way of holiness is the path of the Holy Ghost. Becoming holy is how one achieves Firstborn status. That is what the term Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit means ... the spiritually begotten heir who is holy. Not perfect - but a state where condemnation ceases, and the final progression towards become a Son of Elohim begins. You could say this is the beginning of the process - becoming the Word of God / The Messenger of Salvation. The alpha step.
I have yet to dig into your posts or deep knowledge, however I have a question about this. Are you suggesting (as I've wondered before) that the path to godhood is through taking the positions of Holy Ghost (a davidic servant of sorts), a Savior (redeemer or ultimate sacrifice), and then a Father? Maybe I'm reading to far into it.
That's exactly what he's saying

It sounds fair to me. If Jesus had to make that sacrifice to obtain the keys to death and hell, then I would assume I’d have to do the same. No scriptural support (at least spelled out obviously) but logically, makes sense.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 8:54 pm**

SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 7:03 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:37 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:56 pm

Your faith is greater than mine for I can not imagine awakening to this mystery by faith alone. And, of course, some things have been hidden, intentionally so. Eventually we will all see eye to eye.

Isaiah 35:3 ¶ Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Wow - Isaiah is truly incredible. The way of holiness is the path of the Holy Ghost. Becoming holy is how one achieves Firstborn status. That is what the term Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit means ... the spiritually begotten heir who is holy. Not perfect - but a state where condemnation ceases, and the final progression towards become a Son of Elohim begins. You could say this is the beginning of the process - becoming the Word of God / The Messenger of Salvation. The alpha step.
I have yet to dig into your posts or deep knowledge, however I have a question about this. Are you suggesting (as I've wondered before) that the path to godhood is through taking the positions of Holy Ghost (a davidic servant of sorts), a Savior (redeemer or ultimate sacrifice), and then a Father? Maybe I'm reading to far into it.
That's exactly what he's saying
It sounds fair to me. If Jesus had to make that sacrifice to obtain the keys to death and hell, then I would assume I’d have to do the same. No scriptural support (at least spelled out obviously) but logically, makes sense.

No... Scriptural... Support?

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father

John 14...that sounds familiar.... Surely all references to the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are a coincidence in 14 - 16 as well as the intercessory prayer in 17 regarding the seraphim... Who the father gave Jesus who kept their word.

Oh and D&C 93 that indicates if we are faithful we will receive the fulness of the record of John.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 9:11 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 8:54 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 7:03 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:37 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm

I have yet to dig into your posts or deep knowledge, however I have a question about this. Are you suggesting (as I've wondered before) that the path to godhood is through taking the positions of Holy Ghost (a davidic servant of sorts), a Savior (redeemer or ultimate sacrifice), and then a Father? Maybe I'm reading to far into it.
That's exactly what he's saying
It sounds fair to me. If Jesus had to make that sacrifice to obtain the keys to death and hell, then I would assume I’d have to do the same. No scriptural support (at least spelled out obviously) but logically, makes sense.
No... Scriptural... Support?

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father

John 14...that sounds familiar.... Surely all references to the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are a coincidence in 14 - 16 as well as the intercessory prayer in 17 regarding the seraphim... Who the father gave Jesus who kept their word.

Oh and D&C 93 that indicates if we are faithful we will receive the fulness of the record of John.

I said totally obvious scriptural support. Those verses could be (and are) interpreted very differently by many people, because at that point he was referencing miracles not His atoning sacrifice (or at least that’s how the large large majority view it).

There is no, blunt, versage that essential says “you will be a spirit, then you will get a body, then you will act in the office of the Holy Ghost/Davison servant, then you will be a Savior to another planet, then you can be a Father.” It just isn’t laid out totally blunt or obvious. If you know what you’re looking for (or in same cases MAKE verses fit) then you will find that doctrine, hidden deeply in the scriptures.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally on board and believe it. I just know there isn’t a terrible amount of verses laying out the plan like that.

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 9:18 pm**

SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 9:11 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 8:54 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 7:03 pm
Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:37 pm

That's exactly what he's saying
It sounds fair to me. If Jesus had to make that sacrifice to obtain the keys to death and hell, then I would assume I’d have to do the same. No scriptural support (at least spelled out obviously) but logically, makes sense.
No... Scriptural... Support?

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father

John 14...that sounds familiar.... Surely all references to the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are a coincidence in 14 - 16 as well as the intercessory prayer in 17 regarding the seraphim... Who the father gave Jesus who kept their word.

Oh and D&C 93 that indicates if we are faithful we will receive the fulness of the record of John.
I said totally obvious scriptural support. Those verses could be (and are) interpreted very differently by many people, because at that point he was referencing miracles not His atoning sacrifice (or at least that’s how the large large majority view it).

There is no, blunt, versage that essential says “you will be a spirit, then you will get a body, then you will act in the office of the Holy Ghost/Davison servant, then you will be a Savior to another planet, then you can be a Father.” It just isn’t laid out totally blunt or obvious. If you know what you’re looking for (or in same cases MAKE verses fit) then you will find that doctrine, hidden deeply in the scriptures.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally on board and believe it. I just know there isn’t a terrible amount of verses laying out the plan like that.

Fair enough! If you read my article linked in the OP - if this mystery were spelled out in an obvious manner it wouldn't be a mystery!

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 9:22 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 9:18 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 9:11 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 8:54 pm
SettingDogStar wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 7:03 pm

It sounds fair to me. If Jesus had to make that sacrifice to obtain the keys to death and hell, then I would assume I’d have to do the same. No scriptural support (at least spelled out obviously) but logically, makes sense.
No... Scriptural... Support?

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father

John 14...that sounds familiar.... Surely all references to the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are a coincidence in 14 - 16 as well as the intercessory prayer in 17 regarding the seraphim... Who the father gave Jesus who kept their word.

Oh and D&C 93 that indicates if we are faithful we will receive the fulness of the record of John.
I said totally obvious scriptural support. Those verses could be (and are) interpreted very differently by many people, because at that point he was referencing miracles not His atoning sacrifice (or at least that’s how the large large majority view it).

There is no, blunt, versage that essential says “you will be a spirit, then you will get a body, then you will act in the office of the Holy Ghost/Davison servant, then you will be a Savior to another planet, then you can be a Father.” It just isn’t laid out totally blunt or obvious. If you know what you’re looking for (or in same cases MAKE verses fit) then you will find that doctrine, hidden deeply in the scriptures.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally on board and believe it. I just know there isn’t a terrible amount of verses laying out the plan like that.
Fair enough! If you read my article linked in the OP - if this mystery were spelled out in an obvious manner it wouldn't be a mystery!

Oh I did! Thought it was awesome!!

Posted: **September 10th, 2019, 10:07 pm**

Robbinius wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm Honestly Alaris, I think the other threads are a bit easier to engage in because they aren't bringing such massive amounts of information in every paragraph. I read every one of your posts and articles slowly multiple times and I can honestly say it's changed my life. I'm grateful and pray (literally) that you keep going. But I need some time to even respond to this post intelligently. Know what I'm saying? I doubt I'm the only one... But I imagine you want conversation a little more than "cool story. Thanks."

Seriously, this is the meat of the gospel and it doesn't get digested nearly as quickly as the milk.

Isaiah 28:

1Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

Alaris, tell your view of the above, complete.

Posted: **September 11th, 2019, 9:07 am**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's me breathing a long sigh of relief to have you back in rotation here on LDSFF.

Haha, thank you, Alaris. I am glad that your previous impressions of me were, on the balance, apparently positive

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Joseph Smith said the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - and somehow that fact bounces off our collective skulls as though it were never spoken.

This fact I have kept well at the forefront of my mind. Perhaps my question was not originally worded clearly enough. When you said that the Davidic Servant would be an angel I was wondering if you meant he would be an unembodied angel during the fulfillment of his duties. I can see now that you had no such thing in mind when you said that.

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm As for the Davidic Servant leading the church - I wish I could shake everyone by the shoulders who asks this. We are Israel. The throne and Kingdom of David is not Judah but all twelve tribes - all of Israel.

Here you say that we are Israel, which I agree with, but if I understood you correctly you also said that the Davidic Servant will not be the prophet of the church, and yet he will laed the church? Perhaps you could clarify. I am under the impression that the covenant people of the latter days (the church) is modern day Israel and so the head of the church would automatically be the leader of Israel. If my understanding serves me correctly, in the millenium (after the half hour of silence, at least), the Lord will rule the world as king of kings out of the New Jerusalem and the Davidic Servant will rule the ecclesiastical body of the church from the old Jerusalem. Is this your understanding as well? (I'm too lazy at the moment to fetch any supporting quotes or scriptures, haha.)

Thank you for taking the time to explain these things. Your insights are always appreciated!

By the way, I'm curious about your thoughts on the beast of Revelation in relation to these things. I just finished reading an essay online by a man I know who analyzes Joseph Smith's sermon on the beast and concludes that Joseph Smith foresaw the beast as being an alien of some kind come to earth from space. Sounds radical, but the analysis is pretty convincing. Thoughts?

Posted: **September 11th, 2019, 10:32 am**

Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:07 am
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's me breathing a long sigh of relief to have you back in rotation here on LDSFF.
Haha, thank you, Alaris. I am glad that your previous impressions of me were, on the balance, apparently positive

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Joseph Smith said the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - and somehow that fact bounces off our collective skulls as though it were never spoken.
This fact I have kept well at the forefront of my mind. Perhaps my question was not originally worded clearly enough. When you said that the Davidic Servant would be an angel I was wondering if you meant he would be an unembodied angel during the fulfillment of his duties. I can see now that you had no such thing in mind when you said that.

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm As for the Davidic Servant leading the church - I wish I could shake everyone by the shoulders who asks this. We are Israel. The throne and Kingdom of David is not Judah but all twelve tribes - all of Israel.
Here you say that we are Israel, which I agree with, but if I understood you correctly you also said that the Davidic Servant will not be the prophet of the church, and yet he will laed the church? Perhaps you could clarify. I am under the impression that the covenant people of the latter days (the church) is modern day Israel and so the head of the church would automatically be the leader of Israel. If my understanding serves me correctly, in the millenium (after the half hour of silence, at least), the Lord will rule the world as king of kings out of the New Jerusalem and the Davidic Servant will rule the ecclesiastical body of the church from the old Jerusalem. Is this your understanding as well? (I'm too lazy at the moment to fetch any supporting quotes or scriptures, haha.)

Thank you for taking the time to explain these things. Your insights are always appreciated!

By the way, I'm curious about your thoughts on the beast of Revelation in relation to these things. I just finished reading an essay online by a man I know who analyzes Joseph Smith's sermon on the beast and concludes that Joseph Smith foresaw the beast as being an alien of some kind come to earth from space. Sounds radical, but the analysis is pretty convincing. Thoughts?

You're welcome.

I probably shouldn't post early in the morning, but here goes.

He will be a prophet and a king, or more accurately, both priest and king. l believe each of the seven patriarchs have the fullness of the Priesthood but for the most part defer their right to rule as a king to the final, 8th dispensation prince. This is why "The Discourse on Abbaton" is such an incredible find as well Testament of Levi (both thanks to simpleton above.) If you haven't read those articles, I highly recommend you do so. In the former, there are 7 angels who basically pass their right to rule to the 8th. You have to read between the lines, but the parallel of this story to that of king david is undeniable. I found some lay non-lds (lol) blog online where the author picked up on the same. The devil appears to have been the chief of the seraphim before the 8th angel, named Mouriel in this discourse. He loses his right to rule to the 8th angel. Sound familiar? This really puts Samuel's reaction to Eliab into perspective. Surely the Lord's anointed is before me! Eliab = Michael. Saul = The Devil. David = The Beloved Angel

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

In the Testament of Levi, 7 men / angels wearing white dress Levi himself in the garb of the high priest and prophecies are given concerning the end times David. These davidic prophecies are all over the apocrypha. It's almost like when darkness reigned on Earth the devil went through the scriptures with a fine comb and removed the most overt plain and precious prophecies of the Davidic King.

Though the woman gives birth to the man child in Revelation 12, I believe that means David and his people come from the church. I believe her being given wings to go into the wilderness to avoid the Dragon is indicative of our people fleeing literally into the wilderness. Though we seem safe at the moment, we know the Gadiantons have dug in deep to our own government (Jeffrey Epstein is the latest example) We're a hair's breadth away from the persecutions of the saints mentioned in the scriptures. The adversary will pull all stops which is symbolized by the Dragon waiting to devour the man child. Notice he's not waiting to devour the woman.

Anyway - I think it would be foolish to expect the ascent of the servant to be someone from the twelve apostles. This is the return of their King from the foundation of the world. He has been sitting upon the throne of Adam digging, nourishing, pruning, and destroying. The scriptures absolutely indicate a physical gathering, though D&C 133 suggests the ten tribes go from the north to Ephraim. Why will they go? What is their signal? Uncoincidentally, the Lord wearing red is also mentioned in D&C 133.

Then there are scriptures that indicate this will happen all at once.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Who is the sword? The sword is the Spirit. Awake, O sword, smite the shepherd ... The LORD indicates this will all be quick. Moreover, in JST Matthew and Luke 17 - the Eagles at the carcass are the saints. They are gathered in one location. I'm not sure if you are aware of the Ezra's Eagle prophecy (coincidence?) but the very next chapter is about how the remnant goes to the servant who is single handedly taking on the armies of the world. 2 Esdras 13. If that chapter is accurate, then the remnant goes and finds him, and THEN the ten tribes are gathered to him after that.

What will happen to the church by then? We could lose our liberties here as quickly as we gain ZION. The left is constantly pushing for more "freedom" to slaughter the nearly and just born. They are constantly pushing to take away our civil liberties. And, they will not stop ever until they succeed at compelling our church to accept gay sealings. What would our leaders do in that scenario? What if there's open war here and the armies of the beast have one objective only in mind?

D&C 103:17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

That scripture may have come to mind if it weren't early for me, but I'll give credit to the Lord for bringing this one to mind. One of the titles of the servant in Isaiah is "Arm of Jehovah" - in fact that's what the LORD calls him when he commands him to awake in Isaiah 51:9.

President Nelson has pled with us to increase our capacity for revelation and warned us that anything less than being able to receive constant guidance from the spirit will result in our inability to survive spiritually. I don't know about anyone else, but that sounds a lot to me like he or his successor will not be around to do the revealing for us. I suspect the church will be in a state of chaos or dissolution just before the servant takes his place. And by all appearances (ha) he seems to be empowered and visible to the world when Israel is gathered to him and not a moment before.

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rearward.
13 ¶ Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

1 Nephi 22:11 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to make bare his arm in the eyes of all the nations, in bringing about his covenants and his gospel unto those who are of the house of Israel.
12 Wherefore, he will bring them again out of captivity, and they shall be gathered together to the lands of their inheritance; and they shall be brought out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is their Savior and their Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.

As for the beast, I really don't know. Sorry to disappoint here. Based off my own experiences, I believe quite firmly the devil will use counterfeit means to make a mockery of the plan of salvation. If you look into books on aliens, many / most of them will have you believe there are aliens about us. Some of them claim all the other books / lore prove the adversary is real and is attempting to thwart God's plan by having folks believe that aliens are our progenitors (annunaki, sumerians, etc.)

I should spend more time studying the antichrist, but I suspect I should hold off on that study for now. I feel I'm missing a piece - and I need to find that piece before I can dig any deeper.

However, to your first question, the Davidic Servant will be a prophet much like Enoch. A King - a gatherer - a builder - a prophet - a mountain mover, etc. It's no coincidence that the levels of mankind align the seraphim to Enoch, and the servant himself who is chief of the seraphim. Each dispensation prince demonstrates to their order how to overcome with an ultimate or penultimate example (depending on whether Christ's ministry overlaps) - Noah, for example, showed Ephraim / LDS how to preach the gospel. 120 years w/o success leaves us w/o excuse. Enoch, showed the seraphim, the 144,000, how to gather the righteous and build ZION. That includes the servant who shows how one leaves the order of the seraphim (the priests) and joins the order of the patriarchs (the kings and priests.) The 3rd token in the temple aligns to the priests and the 4th to the kings. The endowment has been tailored to our time and season of "The Law of the Gospel" which is why who we are now aligns to this law and token and why there are two future tokens and laws and why we are told we are anointed to become priests / priestesses (third token - seraphim) and kings and queens (fourth = fullness of the Priesthood)

This must be all a coincidence, though right? I mean, it's not like there are any scriptures that suggest that the end times David is traversing from that third token to the fourth, right?

Isaiah 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

The key of the house of David - that's for Jesus right? Not any angel ... right?

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the (sixth) church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet(worship = God), and to know that I have loved thee. (beloved)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, (this angel will be mortal) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Obviously I could go on all day on this topic rather than the beast. Just one last interesting note. In 3 Enoch the Angel of the Lord is named Metatron and apparently Enoch becomes Metatron when he goes to heaven. Of course, that doesn't fit as the Angel of the Lord can't be one of the seven principal patriarchs. However, reading the Metatron wiki, scholars have suggested that there is evidence that Enoch's equating to Metraton was an interpolation. Morever, there is evidences of two Metatrons - a greater and a lesser. Might one be Enoch who already has the fullness of the Priesthood, and might the lesser be that 8th angel - the Davidic Servant? Conflating those two isn't that hard to fathom at all.

Posted: **September 11th, 2019, 4:38 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 10:32 am
Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 9:07 am
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's me breathing a long sigh of relief to have you back in rotation here on LDSFF.
Haha, thank you, Alaris. I am glad that your previous impressions of me were, on the balance, apparently positive

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm Joseph Smith said the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - and somehow that fact bounces off our collective skulls as though it were never spoken.
This fact I have kept well at the forefront of my mind. Perhaps my question was not originally worded clearly enough. When you said that the Davidic Servant would be an angel I was wondering if you meant he would be an unembodied angel during the fulfillment of his duties. I can see now that you had no such thing in mind when you said that.

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 4:19 pm As for the Davidic Servant leading the church - I wish I could shake everyone by the shoulders who asks this. We are Israel. The throne and Kingdom of David is not Judah but all twelve tribes - all of Israel.
Here you say that we are Israel, which I agree with, but if I understood you correctly you also said that the Davidic Servant will not be the prophet of the church, and yet he will laed the church? Perhaps you could clarify. I am under the impression that the covenant people of the latter days (the church) is modern day Israel and so the head of the church would automatically be the leader of Israel. If my understanding serves me correctly, in the millenium (after the half hour of silence, at least), the Lord will rule the world as king of kings out of the New Jerusalem and the Davidic Servant will rule the ecclesiastical body of the church from the old Jerusalem. Is this your understanding as well? (I'm too lazy at the moment to fetch any supporting quotes or scriptures, haha.)

Thank you for taking the time to explain these things. Your insights are always appreciated!

By the way, I'm curious about your thoughts on the beast of Revelation in relation to these things. I just finished reading an essay online by a man I know who analyzes Joseph Smith's sermon on the beast and concludes that Joseph Smith foresaw the beast as being an alien of some kind come to earth from space. Sounds radical, but the analysis is pretty convincing. Thoughts?
You're welcome.

I probably shouldn't post early in the morning, but here goes.

He will be a prophet and a king, or more accurately, both priest and king. l believe each of the seven patriarchs have the fullness of the Priesthood but for the most part defer their right to rule as a king to the final, 8th dispensation prince. This is why "The Discourse on Abbaton" is such an incredible find as well Testament of Levi (both thanks to simpleton above.) If you haven't read those articles, I highly recommend you do so. In the former, there are 7 angels who basically pass their right to rule to the 8th. You have to read between the lines, but the parallel of this story to that of king david is undeniable. I found some lay non-lds (lol) blog online where the author picked up on the same. The devil appears to have been the chief of the seraphim before the 8th angel, named Mouriel in this discourse. He loses his right to rule to the 8th angel. Sound familiar? This really puts Samuel's reaction to Eliab into perspective. Surely the Lord's anointed is before me! Eliab = Michael. Saul = The Devil. David = The Beloved Angel

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

In the Testament of Levi, 7 men / angels wearing white dress Levi himself in the garb of the high priest and prophecies are given concerning the end times David. These davidic prophecies are all over the apocrypha. It's almost like when darkness reigned on Earth the devil went through the scriptures with a fine comb and removed the most overt plain and precious prophecies of the Davidic King.

Though the woman gives birth to the man child in Revelation 12, I believe that means David and his people come from the church. I believe her being given wings to go into the wilderness to avoid the Dragon is indicative of our people fleeing literally into the wilderness. Though we seem safe at the moment, we know the Gadiantons have dug in deep to our own government (Jeffrey Epstein is the latest example) We're a hair's breadth away from the persecutions of the saints mentioned in the scriptures. The adversary will pull all stops which is symbolized by the Dragon waiting to devour the man child. Notice he's not waiting to devour the woman.

Anyway - I think it would be foolish to expect the ascent of the servant to be someone from the twelve apostles. This is the return of their King from the foundation of the world. He has been sitting upon the throne of Adam digging, nourishing, pruning, and destroying. The scriptures absolutely indicate a physical gathering, though D&C 133 suggests the ten tribes go from the north to Ephraim. Why will they go? What is their signal? Uncoincidentally, the Lord wearing red is also mentioned in D&C 133.

Then there are scriptures that indicate this will happen all at once.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Who is the sword? The sword is the Spirit. Awake, O sword, smite the shepherd ... The LORD indicates this will all be quick. Moreover, in JST Matthew and Luke 17 - the Eagles at the carcass are the saints. They are gathered in one location. I'm not sure if you are aware of the Ezra's Eagle prophecy (coincidence?) but the very next chapter is about how the remnant goes to the servant who is single handedly taking on the armies of the world. 2 Esdras 13. If that chapter is accurate, then the remnant goes and finds him, and THEN the ten tribes are gathered to him after that.

What will happen to the church by then? We could lose our liberties here as quickly as we gain ZION. The left is constantly pushing for more "freedom" to slaughter the nearly and just born. They are constantly pushing to take away our civil liberties. And, they will not stop ever until they succeed at compelling our church to accept gay sealings. What would our leaders do in that scenario? What if there's open war here and the armies of the beast have one objective only in mind?

D&C 103:17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

That scripture may have come to mind if it weren't early for me, but I'll give credit to the Lord for bringing this one to mind. One of the titles of the servant in Isaiah is "Arm of Jehovah" - in fact that's what the LORD calls him when he commands him to awake in Isaiah 51:9.

President Nelson has pled with us to increase our capacity for revelation and warned us that anything less than being able to receive constant guidance from the spirit will result in our inability to survive spiritually. I don't know about anyone else, but that sounds a lot to me like he or his successor will not be around to do the revealing for us. I suspect the church will be in a state of chaos or dissolution just before the servant takes his place. And by all appearances (ha) he seems to be empowered and visible to the world when Israel is gathered to him and not a moment before.

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rearward.
13 ¶ Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

1 Nephi 22:11 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to make bare his arm in the eyes of all the nations, in bringing about his covenants and his gospel unto those who are of the house of Israel.
12 Wherefore, he will bring them again out of captivity, and they shall be gathered together to the lands of their inheritance; and they shall be brought out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is their Savior and their Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.

As for the beast, I really don't know. Sorry to disappoint here. Based off my own experiences, I believe quite firmly the devil will use counterfeit means to make a mockery of the plan of salvation. If you look into books on aliens, many / most of them will have you believe there are aliens about us. Some of them claim all the other books / lore prove the adversary is real and is attempting to thwart God's plan by having folks believe that aliens are our progenitors (annunaki, sumerians, etc.)

I should spend more time studying the antichrist, but I suspect I should hold off on that study for now. I feel I'm missing a piece - and I need to find that piece before I can dig any deeper.

However, to your first question, the Davidic Servant will be a prophet much like Enoch. A King - a gatherer - a builder - a prophet - a mountain mover, etc. It's no coincidence that the levels of mankind align the seraphim to Enoch, and the servant himself who is chief of the seraphim. Each dispensation prince demonstrates to their order how to overcome with an ultimate or penultimate example (depending on whether Christ's ministry overlaps) - Noah, for example, showed Ephraim / LDS how to preach the gospel. 120 years w/o success leaves us w/o excuse. Enoch, showed the seraphim, the 144,000, how to gather the righteous and build ZION. That includes the servant who shows how one leaves the order of the seraphim (the priests) and joins the order of the patriarchs (the kings and priests.) The 3rd token in the temple aligns to the priests and the 4th to the kings. The endowment has been tailored to our time and season of "The Law of the Gospel" which is why who we are now aligns to this law and token and why there are two future tokens and laws and why we are told we are anointed to become priests / priestesses (third token - seraphim) and kings and queens (fourth = fullness of the Priesthood)

This must be all a coincidence, though right? I mean, it's not like there are any scriptures that suggest that the end times David is traversing from that third token to the fourth, right?

Isaiah 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

The key of the house of David - that's for Jesus right? Not any angel ... right?

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the (sixth) church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet(worship = God), and to know that I have loved thee. (beloved)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, (this angel will be mortal) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Obviously I could go on all day on this topic rather than the beast. Just one last interesting note. In 3 Enoch the Angel of the Lord is named Metatron and apparently Enoch becomes Metatron when he goes to heaven. Of course, that doesn't fit as the Angel of the Lord can't be one of the seven principal patriarchs. However, reading the Metatron wiki, scholars have suggested that there is evidence that Enoch's equating to Metraton was an interpolation. Morever, there is evidences of two Metatrons - a greater and a lesser. Might one be Enoch who already has the fullness of the Priesthood, and might the lesser be that 8th angel - the Davidic Servant? Conflating those two isn't that hard to fathom at all.

I will post the link to the article written by a man I know about the beast of Revelation. Suffice it to say, for this thread, that it relates to the Davidic Servant IMO in terms of timeline and conflict. Imagine if the beast is an intelligent creature that man has never known, and moreover, when he comes, he is able to communicate with man in his own language (the book of Revelation states that it does so by the power of the devil). And what advanced world-saving knowledge does he bring to mankind? "Do not believe in Christ." Or perhaps worse yet, "Allah is God and Mohammed is his prophet!" Finally, a religious dicta the world can accept without faith! Perhaps a NWO will form around this being and his words and everyone will have to submit to his authority or else. And most people will, except the DS and the remnant of Israel come to save freedom and belief in Christ.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't wax so wildly imaginative if it weren't for the conclusions of this summary of Joseph Smith's sermon. I know it's not up your symbolism alley but it may be a nice diversion for future variety in your studies when the time comes (warning: the ads on his blog are probably there because he doesn't want to pay to have them removed, but they are annoyingly placed):

https://powerinthepriesthood.wordpress. ... est-books/

Posted: **September 11th, 2019, 10:46 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... eyard.html

The Servant of the Vineyard is The Holy Ghost.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Servant of Isaiah.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Angel of the Lord who bears the ineffable name.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Davidic Servant. The ineffable name signifies inheritance. The family name of the Lord!

These are all the same person - the heir to the Davidic Covenant. He is the one who has been pruning, digging, nourishing, and destroying the dead branches by casting them into the fire; and, the servant is the one who leads the gathering of fruit of the vineyard at the end. The servant is not "The Prophet." He is the Angel of the Lord.

With every new article, I feel more emboldened to get on a high horse and start chastising you all for spending all your time in fluffy and silly threads. Would that I could say that you all would rather entertain folks who are either crazy or possessed or both. For as I add to the many evidences to unlock perhaps the greatest mystery of our world that has been hidden from the foundation of the world... these threads go largely unanswered and disappear into the ether. Yet my message has been consistent since the beginning - the Davidic Servant is the 8th angel in authority below the seven patriarchs. He is the davidic heir to Jesus Christ - the beloved of Jesus as Jesus is beloved of Elohim. Apocryphon after apocryphon are "coincidentally" confirming this message - yet let's spend time contending over these "coincidental" distractions of those claiming to be Jesus or the Man Child.

Would that I didn't have to speak with such harsh words to you all. You are the children of Joseph, inheritor of the birthright of Abraham. You ought to stand a little taller and not let yourselves be drawn away into useless paths by the distractions of the devil. His tools are everywhere, and they're working overtime to distract from what is unfolding before you now. Lo here and lo there! Focus!

That's what I would say if I were on a high horse. Good thing I'm not right? Imagine how upset you all would get.

However, Jesus didn't ride into Jerusalem on a high horse, did He? He rode in on a Donkey ... guiding a young colt into Jerusalem. What does that little colt represent?

This is the mystery that is solved for you now, but many of you would rather remain latched onto milk while the meatiest mystery from the foundation of the world is solved before you. The Bridegroom is the Davidic heir ... the Lord's spiritually begotten son who becomes His firstborn.

Revelation 20:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

If the DS path you describe is the only way to be an heir or the firstborn, what happens to the other archangels if their status is higher.? Does he leap frog them? If so, when do they get their chance to be a christ or a DS? Or have they been? How come the three Nephites, Melchizedek, brother of Jared are not arch angels or are there earlier/earlier missions of the dispensation heads. Does an angel come once a dispensation? KoZ suggests 9 times at a certain level. Since the DS becomes a God and the arch angels already are, does that mean they have already been a DS. If so, then that means they have already a Jehovah? If so, they condesended to fall to bring about mortal bodies?

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 4:34 am**

Great article Alaris!

I think this is my favorite of all your great articles.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... eyard.html

I highly recommend everyone to read it. It helps one understand the true endowment that can be symbolically understand how one becomes a Father, first by being a Son... There is also another type concerning Women, hidden within the holy scriptures concerning becoming a Mother after having become a Daughter.

Towards the end of this article, if one pays close attention, you may just figure out that in the endowment, the name John, then David, is by no means a coincidence. It was placed purposefully...

Eyes wide open

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 5:33 am**

DJB wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 4:34 am Great article Alaris!

I think this is my favorite of all your great articles.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... eyard.html

I highly recommend everyone to read it. It helps one understand the true endowment that can be symbolically understand how one becomes a Father, first by being a Son... There is also another type concerning Women, hidden within the holy scriptures concerning becoming a Mother after having become a Daughter.

Towards the end of this article, if one pays close attention, you may just figure out that in the endowment, the name John, then David, is by no means a coincidence. It was placed purposefully...

Eyes wide open

Oh my goodness. Those are some really great insights. I caught the change to David...I didn’t connect it to the old name being John. Cool.

Also, you are right about the mother/daughter pattern being in the scriptures. I have seen it too. Nice to know I’m not making stuff up.

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 11:07 am**

DJB wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 4:34 am Great article Alaris!

I think this is my favorite of all your great articles.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... eyard.html

I highly recommend everyone to read it. It helps one understand the true endowment that can be symbolically understand how one becomes a Father, first by being a Son... There is also another type concerning Women, hidden within the holy scriptures concerning becoming a Mother after having become a Daughter.

Towards the end of this article, if one pays close attention, you may just figure out that in the endowment, the name John, then David, is by no means a coincidence. It was placed purposefully...

Eyes wide open

Firstly - thank you

Secondly, John -> David is an amazing insight! I've stated my belief that John is next in line to be the High Priest of Israel.

The account of Aaron's death is super symbolic imho. He's taken up into Mount Hor with Moses and Aaron's son Eleazar. Moses ceremoniously removes the clothing of High Priest and dresses Aaron's son in the vesture.

In Zechariah, the Angel of the Lord (the ultimate High Priest of Israel and servant of the vineyard) is clothing the High Priest Joshua ceremoniously. Many symbols that point to the end times are in that process. Zechariah is truly an incredible book, especially given how short it is.

So, back to John. Some believe the root and rod are the same person. My wife leans to that understanding; however, I believe it is John, and where D&C 113 says that to the root belongs the rights of the priesthood, I believe that statement is referring to this process that when the Davidic Servant achieves his everlasting name & crown, then John is immediately clothed (or "immediately" as far as heavenly timelines are concerned)

5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

If Zenos' allegory is about the servant who has been doing all this work on the other side of the veil - nourshing, pruning, digging, and destroying, then the next in line have a 2,000 year sojourn on this side of the veil is sort of fitting. Witness from this side of the veil. The two witnesses.

Anyway - as I was refreshing my memory on the details of Aaron's death I caught this in the wikipedia article:

There are two accounts of the death of Aaron in the Torah.[13] Numbers says that soon after the incident at Meribah, Aaron with his son Eleazar and Moses ascended Mount Hor. There Moses stripped Aaron of his priestly garments and transferred them to Eleazar. Aaron died on the summit of the mountain, and the people mourned for him thirty days (Numbers 20:22-29; compare 33:38-39).[13][14][15] The other account is found in Deuteronomy 10:6, where Aaron died at Moserah and was buried.[13][52] There is a significant amount of travel between these two points, as the itinerary in Numbers 33:31–37 records seven stages between Moseroth (Mosera) and Mount Hor.[13][53] Aaron was 123 at the time of his death.[54]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 3:00 pm**

solonan wrote: ↑September 11th, 2019, 10:46 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 10th, 2019, 2:44 pm https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... eyard.html

The Servant of the Vineyard is The Holy Ghost.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Servant of Isaiah.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Angel of the Lord who bears the ineffable name.

The Servant of the Vineyard is the Davidic Servant. The ineffable name signifies inheritance. The family name of the Lord!

These are all the same person - the heir to the Davidic Covenant. He is the one who has been pruning, digging, nourishing, and destroying the dead branches by casting them into the fire; and, the servant is the one who leads the gathering of fruit of the vineyard at the end. The servant is not "The Prophet." He is the Angel of the Lord.

With every new article, I feel more emboldened to get on a high horse and start chastising you all for spending all your time in fluffy and silly threads. Would that I could say that you all would rather entertain folks who are either crazy or possessed or both. For as I add to the many evidences to unlock perhaps the greatest mystery of our world that has been hidden from the foundation of the world... these threads go largely unanswered and disappear into the ether. Yet my message has been consistent since the beginning - the Davidic Servant is the 8th angel in authority below the seven patriarchs. He is the davidic heir to Jesus Christ - the beloved of Jesus as Jesus is beloved of Elohim. Apocryphon after apocryphon are "coincidentally" confirming this message - yet let's spend time contending over these "coincidental" distractions of those claiming to be Jesus or the Man Child.

Would that I didn't have to speak with such harsh words to you all. You are the children of Joseph, inheritor of the birthright of Abraham. You ought to stand a little taller and not let yourselves be drawn away into useless paths by the distractions of the devil. His tools are everywhere, and they're working overtime to distract from what is unfolding before you now. Lo here and lo there! Focus!

That's what I would say if I were on a high horse. Good thing I'm not right? Imagine how upset you all would get.

However, Jesus didn't ride into Jerusalem on a high horse, did He? He rode in on a Donkey ... guiding a young colt into Jerusalem. What does that little colt represent?

This is the mystery that is solved for you now, but many of you would rather remain latched onto milk while the meatiest mystery from the foundation of the world is solved before you. The Bridegroom is the Davidic heir ... the Lord's spiritually begotten son who becomes His firstborn.

Revelation 20:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
If the DS path you describe is the only way to be an heir or the firstborn, what happens to the other archangels if their status is higher.? Does he leap frog them? If so, when do they get their chance to be a christ or a DS? Or have they been? How come the three Nephites, Melchizedek, brother of Jared are not arch angels or are there earlier/earlier missions of the dispensation heads. Does an angel come once a dispensation? KoZ suggests 9 times at a certain level. Since the DS becomes a God and the arch angels already are, does that mean they have already been a DS. If so, then that means they have already a Jehovah? If so, they condescended to fall to bring about mortal bodies?

Great questions, and I'd expect nothing less. I highly recommend reading through 3 Enoch. It's actually a quick / easy read. While I was in between jobs, I kept a log of my experiences here while reading through 3 Enoch:

viewtopic.php?t=50868

I stopped right around the part of 3 Enoch where there are some chapters that aren't terribly exciting and samey. Still, I'll need to pick it up again and pour through to the end. The relevant bits to your question is how there is a hierarchy among those who preside over the seven heavens. When one king sees the king of the heaven above, he prostrates and removes his crown. This 1:1 hierarchy continues on through the seven heavens to the one deity who reigns between the seven heavens and the seven greater halls (who is very likely Jesus) and this hierarchy continues through the seven halls and beyond. Of course, this fits perfectly with what Joseph Smith said of Jesus and Elohim in King Follett.

What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation...

It is plain beyond disputation. I love it! So, Elohim will very likely be always higher in authority than Jesus Christ. If Elohim hadn't done the works of Jesus before Jesus did them, then Jesus would be able to claim a higher authority than Elohim the moment He steps into heaven.

Joseph Smith had already been a DS imho. This is why he saw the father at age 14 - confirmation he had already received the reward of Revelation 3:12 previously. Revelation 3:12 is the promised reward to the priests upon attaining status as both priest and king - to receive the name of the Father and the new name of the Son (as a father - see above quote) which suggests continuance into Jesus' new kingdom as a Father. Who will be the Saviors under Jesus' domain for certainly there must be >1 Son to Jesus Christ as I believe strongly each world under Jesus' dominion produces exactly 1 heir. Read this verse in Isaiah with this idea in mind. This is the last verse in the "Awake and arise" stanza where the Lord awakens His mortal servant to his identity in the last days.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

The choosing in Abraham 3 was to choose the Lesser God not the greater. Of course Jesus' dominion had already been set, else Michael could not have come down under Jehovah's direction (temple endowment.) The devil was never vying to be the Savior but to be the Holy Ghost and overstep his purview into the Savior's - which is what is meant by the devil seeking Jesus' glory for himself. I feel like I'm getting off track here ...circling back to Isaiah 51:16 above. Jesus put His words in the servant's mouth (Moses / Aaron = key to understand Jahovah / Jahoel) and has hidden Jahoel "so that" Jehovah may plant the heavens and lay the foundations of the earth. Meaning .. this is why the Earth came into existence and is indeed the primary function of all Earths imho. At the end, Israel is given a chance to accept this "gift" of the Holy Ghost or reject it, but to reject the gift is to reject the giver and how it was given - hence the crucifying to open shame.

The reward of receiving the presence of the Father is given in Revelation 12 - the sign is in the likeness of what's happening on Earth - the man child is caught up to God and his throne and receives the name of the Father (the sealed name of the 144,000 for they are all high priests and are promised unto the same)

Above, DLB gave an important key about John becoming David. Well, I don't mention this a lot publicly because I can't synthesize all the issues that arise, but consider for a moment James is either the Davidic Servant or a type (at the very least.) James and John are taken to the MT transfiguration and the father is veiled. Jesus prophesies that James and John will partake of His cup and be baptized with the same baptism.

The gospel of Philip has a saying of Jesus where they ask him where they should go when He's gone, and Jesus says to go to James for whom the world came into being. "so that" I may plant the heavens and lay the foundations of the Earth.

In the temple, we have Peter, James and John who are effectively the High Priest who was (now an archangel) the High Priest who is (James) and the High Priest who is to come (John.) Peter pleads with us at the end now (pretty sure this is a change) to listen to James and John. The two witnesses. One is a witness of Christ and one is a witness of the Lesser God imho.

Melchizedek is absolutely an archangel - Joseph Smith said in one of his fullness of the Priesthood sermons that Melchizedek gave the fullness to Abraham essentially. Who is Melchizedek? Some think he's Shem, some Jesus. The apocrypha has a version of 2 Enoch that suggests he was the product of an immaculate conception / birth.

I've got to run - more to say about the 3 nephites, but they are clearly of the order of the seraphim. The especial witnesses of Christ - the Apostles (Compare Matthew 13 to Isaiah 6)

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 3:32 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 3:00 pm It is plain beyond disputation. I love it! So, Elohim will very likely be always higher in authority than Jesus Christ. If Elohim hadn't done the works of Jesus before Jesus did them, then Jesus would be able to claim a higher authority than Elohim the moment He steps into heaven.

Joseph Smith had already been a DS imho. This is why he saw the father at age 14 - confirmation he had already received the reward of Revelation 3:12 previously. Revelation 3:12 is the promised reward to the priests upon attaining status as both priest and king - to receive the name of the Father and the new name of the Son (as a father - see above quote) which suggests continuance into Jesus' new kingdom as a Father. Who will be the Saviors under Jesus' domain for certainly there must be >1 Son to Jesus Christ as I believe strongly each world under Jesus' dominion produces exactly 1 heir. Read this verse in Isaiah with this idea in mind. This is the last verse in the "Awake and arise" stanza where the Lord awakens His mortal servant to his identity in the last days.

Three questions:

Do you think Elohim is God the Father's name?
Do your comments on Joseph Smith having seen the Father and the Son mean that those who have seen the Father have obtained the Revelation 3:12 promise?
How did Adam and Eve obtain their bodies?

I know you're always busy writing on here, but I'm interested in your views if you can shoot a quick answer.

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 4:01 pm**

Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 3:32 pm
Alaris wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 3:00 pm It is plain beyond disputation. I love it! So, Elohim will very likely be always higher in authority than Jesus Christ. If Elohim hadn't done the works of Jesus before Jesus did them, then Jesus would be able to claim a higher authority than Elohim the moment He steps into heaven.

Joseph Smith had already been a DS imho. This is why he saw the father at age 14 - confirmation he had already received the reward of Revelation 3:12 previously. Revelation 3:12 is the promised reward to the priests upon attaining status as both priest and king - to receive the name of the Father and the new name of the Son (as a father - see above quote) which suggests continuance into Jesus' new kingdom as a Father. Who will be the Saviors under Jesus' domain for certainly there must be >1 Son to Jesus Christ as I believe strongly each world under Jesus' dominion produces exactly 1 heir. Read this verse in Isaiah with this idea in mind. This is the last verse in the "Awake and arise" stanza where the Lord awakens His mortal servant to his identity in the last days.
Three questions:
Do you think Elohim is God the Father's name?

Do your comments on Joseph Smith having seen the Father and the Son mean that those who have seen the Father have obtained the Revelation 3:12 promise?

How did Adam and Eve obtain their bodies?
I know you're always busy writing on here, but I'm interested in your views if you can shoot a quick answer.

1. Elohim means gods. Is that a real question? Of course that's not his name. The promise of Revelation 3:12 would be meaningless if the name of the father were on display for all to see.

2. Now this is a real question!

These experiences are intensely personal so of course there isn't a lot written to draw upon here. However, I believe the seraphim (level 6, 3rd token) who are the especial witnesses of Jesus Christ have been working with level five folks (2nd token) to help them receive their second Comforter. All the intensity around that goal reflects where folks are on their eternal journey.

Joseph Smith, a level seven being, was surrounded by seraphim, level 6, beings. There is indication he was preparing them to receive the father which makes sense. They were established as especial witnesses before coming here.

The 144000 are the seraphim with the name of the father sealed. I've suspected folks on this path may receive more and more exposure to their heavenly parents but I don't know for certain. However I believe there is only one way for a seraph to be an Archangel and those clues are all over 1 Enoch, Discourse on Abbaton, Testament of Levi, Apocalypse of Thomas, etc. Seven angels pass their right to rule to the eighth... A chief seraph. His job is to make sure the 144,000 are sealed to the same hence Revelation.

3. Of course I don't know the mechanics. I know some believe Adam and Eve were made birds and bees style. I think the better answer is Adam and Eve earned their world and their degree of glory the same way we all do. The same way all Adams and Eves do. We know Adam is highly advanced but he didn't get his celestial body by some other means or plan. He received it by the plan of salvation. And how his body becomes mortal is a symbol to us as to how we attain higher glories and exaltations. He partook to gain knowledge and we are saved no faster than how fast we gain knowledge.

This idea of static permanent residence is... Well I don't want to trigger the folks who seem to enjoy telling us what isn't possible.

Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Posted: **September 12th, 2019, 4:22 pm**

Alaris wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 4:01 pm
Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 12th, 2019, 3:32 pm Three questions:
Do you think Elohim is God the Father's name?

Do your comments on Joseph Smith having seen the Father and the Son mean that those who have seen the Father have obtained the Revelation 3:12 promise?

How did Adam and Eve obtain their bodies?
I know you're always busy writing on here, but I'm interested in your views if you can shoot a quick answer.
1. Elohim means gods. Is that a real question? Of course that's not his name. The promise of Revelation 3:12 would be meaningless if the name of the father were on display for all to see.

2. Now this is a real question! These experiences are intensely personal so of course there isn't a lot written to draw upon here. However, I believe the seraphim (level 6, 3rd token) who are the especial witnesses of Jesus Christ have been working with level five folks (2nd token) to help them receive their second Comforter. All the intensity around that goal reflects where folks are on their eternal journey.

Joseph Smith, a level seven being, was surrounded by seraphim, level 6, beings. There is indication he was preparing them to receive the father which makes sense. They were established as especial witnesses before coming here.

The 144000 are the seraphim with the name of the father sealed. I've suspected folks on this path may receive more and more exposure to their heavenly parents but I don't know for certain. However I believe there is only one way for a seraph to be an Archangel and those clues are all over 1 Enoch, Discourse on Abbaton, Testament of Levi, Apocalypse of Thomas, etc. Seven angels pass their right to rule to the eighth... A chief seraph. His job is to make sure the 144,000 are sealed to the same hence Revelation.

3. Of course I don't know the mechanics. I know some believe Adam and Eve were made birds and bees style. I think the better answer is Adam and Eve earned their world and their degree of glory the same way we all do. The same way all Adams and Eves do. We know Adam is highly advanced but he didn't get his celestial body by some other means or plan. He received it by the plan of salvation. And how his body becomes mortal is a symbol to us as to how we attain higher glories and exaltations. He partook to gain knowledge and we are saved no faster than how fast we gain knowledge.

This idea of static permanent residence is... Well I don't want to trigger the folks who seem to enjoy telling us what isn't possible.

Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

1. Okay, that's a relief. I thought for a second you thought Elohim was God's actual name based on the way you were using it. Whenever I use that word I always precede it with determiner so that people don't confuse me with meaning a name, e.g. "he saw the Elohim," instead of just "he saw Elohim." Joseph Smith actually does this:

"In council...instructing...all those plans and principles by which any one is enabled to secure the fullness of those blessing which have been prepared for the Church of the Firstborn, and come up and abide in the presence of the Eloheim [sic] in the eternal worlds" (Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith [STPJS], p. 237, emphasis added).

Just has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

2. Good answer.

3. Good answer. There is no other way.

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