Christian Origins?

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Seneca fascinates me because he lived around the time of Christ and his ideas have reflected & helped shape history.

“The Seneca Effect (“Collapses are the way the universe gets rid of the old to leave space for the new”) is based on Seneca’s quote: “growth is slow, but ruin is rapid.” Seneca wasn’t necessarily encouraging the idea but pointing it out. Yet this notion was used as CHRISTIAN justification of wiping out Native Americans - especially by a church court in Spain 1500’s. The Seneca Native Americans are considered to be named after Seneca. It’s interesting that the US government organization (federal & state) is based on the Iroquois Confederacy uniting five nations: the Mohawks, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, the Oneida and the Seneca.

Lucius A. Seneca (b 4BC Spain, d Rome) met Paul (Saul of Asia-Minor/Turkey) in Greece 52 AD. Some interesting & relevant Seneca quotes:
  • “Time discovers truth.”
Similar to, “Truth will carve itself." - Joseph Smith
  • “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
How Saul changed and used the church seems to be similar to how Brigham Young did… culminating in a very different religion than founders created.
  • “God is near you, is within you, is inside you.”
^Self-evident truth. Compare Christ’s quote: “Behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
  • “The worse a person is, the less he feels it.”
This is why even just believing in human sacrifice scapegoating is missing the mark & causes people to think and act worse. I’m not suggesting punitiveness, but repentance - having courage to recognize our own failings and then to do what we can to fix it - to make “at-one.”
  • “Everything hangs on one’s thinking.”
Kinda like “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” Christ suggested that a lot - even physical health - depends on deep thoughts & beliefs.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Another guy who lived around the time of Jesus/Yeshua, & 1 of my favorites is Marcus Tillius CICERO who said…

Next to God, we are nothing. To God we are everything.

Gratitude is not only the greatest virtue, but the parent of all the others.

Inability to tell good from evil is the greatest worry of man’s life.

Sound conviction should influence us rather than public opinion.

No tempest or conflagration, however great, is harder to quell than mob carried away by the novelty of power.

Diseases of the soul are more dangerous & more numerous than those of the body.

…Crucifixion? It is impossible to find the words for such an abomination.

A nation can survive its fools, even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within… for the traitor appears not to be a traitor… he rots the soul of a nation…

This multitude of Jews so often turbulent in the assemblies shows a singular strength of mind… they seek to stir up hatreds.

The greatest incitement to guilt is the hope of sinning with impunity.

What is permissible is not always honorable.

Laws are silent in time of war.

No power is strong enough to be lasting, if it labours under the weight of fear.

Unpopularity earned by doing what is right is not unpopularity at all, but glory.

We are not born, we do not live for ourselves alone; our country & our friends [& future generations] have a share in us.

You may never be less alone than when you are alone.

Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, & those to be shunned.”


(Paraphrasing: immortality need belief soldier- greedy conquerors need religion.)

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Re: Christian Origins?

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That last paraphrased quote ^ by Cicero makes me wonder how religion has been & is being used to conquer…

Maybe TPTB go with literary standards of antagonist verses protagonist, while they narrate their desired narrative…

*Democrat verses Republican
Congress are told to vote by whatever their party says, even when it conflicts.

*Black verses White
Why isn’t it Latinos v Whites? Maybe Latinos don’t have such extreme appeal-to-emotion slavery stories, so they make a poorer protagonist or “victim.”

*Islam verses Christianity
Crusades involved stealing lots & “redistributing” wealth and power.

Let’s explore ^ this more, since it seems to go back thousands of years.

Some of the longest-lasting & recent EMPIRES:
27 BC - 476 AD Roman
200 - 1453 Byzantine/Constinople
224-651 Sassanian - Persia/Iraq
750-1258 Abbasid Caliphate - Islam
1415-1999 Portugués
1453-1922 Ottoman - Turkish/Constinople
1492-1975 Spanish
Late 1500’s - ? British By 1913 1/4 world pop & land
1600’s - 1960 French Colonization
1636-1912 Qing Dynasty - China
1721-1917 Russian
1868 - 1947 Japanese
Late 1800’s - present US Imperialism (800 US bases in 80 countries)

Some thoughts re: ^…
*Look how young US is comparatively!
*Christianity today was molded and shaped by a lot - & not all godly.
*”At the center of this (WW I) stage stood three cousins, King George V of Great Britain, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, and Tsar Nicholas II of Russia.”

I’ve read accounts of young men who refused to go kill other young men being harassed & shamed as “cowards.” And religious people used churches as places to promote killing in the name of some supposedly godly principle. This was over 100 years ago yet look how PSY OPS recently has justified abortion murders and taking experimental shots that have maimed or killed many!

To clarify, I see a lot of good in religions. My point is that the adversary will use good things to deceive and harm. The good news is that God also uses bad to bring about good. We just need to be vigilant & keep the Spirit with us to discern and be encouraged.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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One of the biggest fears is death, so it’s understandable how we try to manage that fear. But lies don’t give us peace - maybe temporarily but not ultimately. We don’t need to invent or go along with invented lies to believe we continue after death. Consciousness (which we are in eternal reality) is ENERGY, & energy doesn’t die but changes form or states. That’s the nitty gritty fact. And spiritually many have experienced enough to validate this truth.

From outside the paradigm it’s easy to see:
Human sacrifice is evil.
Scapegoating is evil.
Nobody we know who has died has been resurrected into the same body - but that doesn’t mean their spirit doesn’t continue.

Christianity heavily borrows from multiple religions, including Hinduism and Paganism & has been corrupted - but few seek truth to overcome false, some evil traditions...

“…These ‘saviors’ who died and resurrected after three days were symbols of the sun, and these fables (or fairytales) were borrowed by the Church and attributed to Jesus after his departure. Thus, Jesus became the Sun of God before the ‘Son of God’, both titles are pagan.
 
The early Jewish Christians (Nazarenes and Ebionites) did not believe Jesus was God, or the ‘son of God’.
The Christian conception is a distorted one, it teaches that Jesus was crucified on the ‘cross’ for the sins of other men, and resurrected on the third day. This story is not different from what we find in the Mystery Religions.
"The worship of suffering gods was to be found on all sides, and the belief in the torture of the victims in the rites of human sacrifice for the redemption from sin was very general. The gods Osiris, Attis, Adonis, Dionysos, Herakles, Prometheus, and others, had all suffered for mankind; and thus the Servant of Yahweh was also conceived as having to be wounded for' men's transgressions. But as I say, this conception had passed into the background in the days of Jesus"
(The Paganism in Our Christiantiy, Arthur Weigall, 1928, p106)
 
The Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods were sacrificed for the ‘sins of mankind’ and resurrected on the third day. There is a tradition that Krishna was also crucified (yet upon a tree) to deliver his people from sin. Notice the similarity between the words ‘Christ’ and ‘Krishna’, both worked the same miracles and ascended to Heaven, they were both “incarnations” as well.

When he was sixteen, Krishna left his mother to spread his new teaching throughout India. He spoke out against corruption among the people and the princes, everywhere supported the weak against oppression and declared that he had come to Earth to release people from suffering and sin, to drive out the spirit of evil, and to restore the rule of righteousness. He overcame tremendous difficulties, fought alone against entire armies, performed a wide range of miracles, raised the dead to life, healed lepers, gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, and made the lame walk.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/lost_ ... ns.html#bj
 
Paul created a doctrine about “salvation through the cross” while discarding the teachings of Jesus in its totality.
He established the falsehood that “faith in the resurrection” is the way to salvation while totally rejecting the sayings of Jesus (Matthew 9:13, 12:7, Hosea 6:6, Micah 8:7-8)
 
“And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:14-17)
 
“…the doctrine of resurrection on which many Christian scholars’ belief hangs, is the sole work of Saint Paul as there is nothing in the teachings of Jesus himself on this issue.”
(Alhaj AD Ajijola, Myth of the Cross,)
 
The Old Testament teaches that ‘human sacrifice’ is wrong, and the verses Job 7:9, 14:14, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 deny the resurrection!
 
…The pagans used to sacrifice human beings for the “redemption of sins”. According to the Gospel of the Nazorenes, Jesus rejected the doctrine of vicarious atonement.
 
"The worship of suffering gods was to be found on all sides, and the belief in the torture of the victims in the rites of human sacrifice for the redemption from sin was very general.
(The Paganism in Our Christiantiy, Arthur Weigall, 1928, p106)
 
Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: “Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin?”
And Jesus answered: “No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.” (Gospel of the Nazorenes, lection 33)… 

“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paul”
-- The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)…
"No sooner had Jesus knocked over the dragon of superstition than Paul boldly set it on its legs again in the name of Jesus." (George Bernard Shaw)…”
https://answering-christianity.com/abdu ... rupter.htm

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Jim Marion wrote a profound book called, Putting on the Mind of Christ. As previously noted: I strongly disagree with some of Marion’s claims especially regarding sexual deviations, but I still see value in other ideas. “Take the best, leave the rest.”

Marion:
“Prayer ‘in Jesus’ name’ does not insist on uttering Jesus’ name like a magical talisman. It means praying as Jesus did… with Christ Consciousness.”
Last edited by Thinker on April 13th, 2023, 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Christian Origins?

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Thinker wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 8:56 am  The Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods were sacrificed for the ‘sins of mankind’ and resurrected on the third day.
I have heard these claims before, but there is one aspect in which they do not stand up. The gods of these people were supposedly immortal. The only gods who could be killed effectively were the Norse, but they don't come into play here. If we want to go down the angle of Joseph Campbell and Frazer's Golden Bough, it tended to be the demi-gods who were killed. Jesus does fit that paradigm to some extent, since he was half-human.

There are similarities between the Christ "myth" and pagan religions, but what I tend to find online, especially social media is that people try and exaggerate those similarities or gather the similarities into one figure such as Osiris or Krishna. Once you look at each of those two more closely, they don't resemble Christ that much...

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Niemand wrote: April 13th, 2023, 8:26 am
Thinker wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 8:56 am  The Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods were sacrificed for the ‘sins of mankind’ and resurrected on the third day.
I have heard these claims before, but there is one aspect in which they do not stand up. The gods of these people were supposedly immortal. The only gods who could be killed effectively were the Norse, but they don't come into play here. If we want to go down the angle of Joseph Campbell and Frazer's Golden Bough, it tended to be the demi-gods who were killed. Jesus does fit that paradigm to some extent, since he was half-human.

There are similarities between the Christ "myth" and pagan religions, but what I tend to find online, especially social media is that people try and exaggerate those similarities or gather the similarities into one figure such as Osiris or Krishna. Once you look at each of those two more closely, they don't resemble Christ that much...
Good point about demigods being sacrificed. In a sense we are demigods - being children of God, yet also carnal.

Earlier in this thread, as I was beginning to study some things, I posted a picture comparing multiple deities to Christ & then realized that as you mentioned, some of them were exaggerated. However Krishna is actually quite similar to Christ…

Again,
“Krishna was also crucified (yet upon a tree) to deliver his people from sin. ..both worked the same miracles and ascended to Heaven, they were both “incarnations” as well.

When he was sixteen, Krishna left his mother to spread his new teaching throughout India. He spoke out against corruption among the people and the princes, everywhere supported the weak against oppression and declared that he had come to Earth to release people from suffering and sin, to drive out the spirit of evil, and to restore the rule of righteousness. He overcame tremendous difficulties, fought alone against entire armies, performed a wide range of miracles, raised the dead to life, healed lepers, gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, and made the lame walk.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/lost_ ... ns.html#bj


Each tribes make claims of superiority:
Hindus say they are the oldest religion, so must be true to have withstood the tests of time. I think it was Jung who suggested that in some ways they are more mature - have gotten past some obstacles that many Christians struggle with.
Christians say their religion is best & indeed Christ is the culmination (drawn in part from Judaism which drew on Hinduism) of all GOoD… the personification of highest human potential.

God probably sees it as “it’s all good” - many ways to summit the same mountain.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Thinker wrote: April 13th, 2023, 8:40 am
Niemand wrote: April 13th, 2023, 8:26 am
Thinker wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 8:56 am  The Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods were sacrificed for the ‘sins of mankind’ and resurrected on the third day.
I have heard these claims before, but there is one aspect in which they do not stand up. The gods of these people were supposedly immortal. The only gods who could be killed effectively were the Norse, but they don't come into play here. If we want to go down the angle of Joseph Campbell and Frazer's Golden Bough, it tended to be the demi-gods who were killed. Jesus does fit that paradigm to some extent, since he was half-human.

There are similarities between the Christ "myth" and pagan religions, but what I tend to find online, especially social media is that people try and exaggerate those similarities or gather the similarities into one figure such as Osiris or Krishna. Once you look at each of those two more closely, they don't resemble Christ that much...
Good point about demigods being sacrificed. In a sense we are demigods - being children of God, yet also carnal.

Earlier in this thread, as I was beginning to study some things, I posted a picture comparing multiple deities to Christ & then realized that as you mentioned, some of them were exaggerated. However Krishna is quite similar to Christ…

Again,
“Krishna was also crucified (yet upon a tree) to deliver his people from sin. Notice the similarity between the words ‘Christ’ and ‘Krishna’, both worked the same miracles and ascended to Heaven, they were both “incarnations” as well.

When he was sixteen, Krishna left his mother to spread his new teaching throughout India. He spoke out against corruption among the people and the princes, everywhere supported the weak against oppression and declared that he had come to Earth to release people from suffering and sin, to drive out the spirit of evil, and to restore the rule of righteousness. He overcame tremendous difficulties, fought alone against entire armies, performed a wide range of miracles, raised the dead to life, healed lepers, gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, and made the lame walk.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/lost_ ... ns.html#bj
The origin of much of this idea is Kersey Graves' The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors' along with Hinducentrists, who can't stand the idea that anything was invented outside India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World ... ed_Saviors

Here is the list:
Thulis of Egypt, 1700 B.C.
Krishna of India, 1200 B.C.
Crite of Chaldea, 1200 B.C.[5][6]
Atys of Phrygia, 1170 B.C.
Thammuz or Tammuz of Syria, 1160 B.C.
Hesus or Eros 834 B.C.
Bali of Orissa, 725 B.C.[7]
Indra of Thibet (Tibet), 725 B.C.
Iao of Nepaul (Nepal), 622 B.C.[8][9]
Buddha Sakia (Muni) of India, 600 B.C.[10]
Mitra (Mithra) of Persia, 600 B.C.
Alcestos of Euripides, 600 B.C.
Quezalcoatl of Mexico, 587 B.C.
Wittoba of the Bilingonese, 552 B.C.[11]
Prometheus or Æschylus of Caucasus, 547 B.C.
Quirinus of Rome, 506 B.C.
If you look at some of these, they fall down. For example, Prometheus was tied to a mountain, not a tree and had his guts pecked out by birds each day as a punishment. Krishna is a very different figure to Jesus and more of a warrior in the mould of Mohammed. Atys/Attis went and castrated himself... Mithra's cult was conflated with Jesus' early on, and Quetzalcoatl may have been based on Jesus according to some figures.

Some of the ones that he doesn't mention include Odin/Woden/Wotan who was tied to a tree for a while (but did not die) for wisdom, and Spartacus, the rebel leader of a Roman slave rebellion who was crucified.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Niemand wrote: April 13th, 2023, 9:02 am The origin of much of this idea is Kersey Graves' The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors' along with Hinducentrists, who can't stand the idea that anything was invented outside India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World ... ed_Saviors

Here is the list:
Thulis of Egypt, 1700 B.C.
Krishna of India, 1200 B.C.
Crite of Chaldea, 1200 B.C.[5][6]
Atys of Phrygia, 1170 B.C.
Thammuz or Tammuz of Syria, 1160 B.C.
Hesus or Eros 834 B.C.
Bali of Orissa, 725 B.C.[7]
Indra of Thibet (Tibet), 725 B.C.
Iao of Nepaul (Nepal), 622 B.C.[8][9]
Buddha Sakia (Muni) of India, 600 B.C.[10]
Mitra (Mithra) of Persia, 600 B.C.
Alcestos of Euripides, 600 B.C.
Quezalcoatl of Mexico, 587 B.C.
Wittoba of the Bilingonese, 552 B.C.[11]
Prometheus or Æschylus of Caucasus, 547 B.C.
Quirinus of Rome, 506 B.C.
If you look at some of these, they fall down. For example, Prometheus was tied to a mountain, not a tree and had his guts pecked out by birds each day as a punishment. Krishna is a very different figure to Jesus and more of a warrior in the mould of Mohammed. Atys/Attis went and castrated himself... Mithra's cult was conflated with Jesus' early on, and Quetzalcoatl may have been based on Jesus according to some figures.

Some of the ones that he doesn't mention include Odin/Woden/Wotan who was tied to a tree for a while (but did not die) for wisdom, and Spartacus, the rebel leader of a Roman slave rebellion who was crucified.
Cool - lots of interesting things to consider!
Personally after interacting with too many guru-wannabes who cherry pick Hinduism & Buddhism in suspicious ways, & also visiting their temples full of idols - these are not religions I relate most to. And I agree that there are many differences between Christ & Krishna. However, I cannot ignore similarities (ie both born of divine conception, both shepherds, parents went to be taxed, was threatened with being killed & bore sufferings with faith, healed people, advocate for the poor, considered god/Demi-god, killed similarly & for sins of the people, considered saviors. And I just realized Krishna is considered the highest “Bhagavada” - highest & most complete personal expression of God, similar to Christ.

Hinduism may be comparable to the Trinity idea…
3 parts of God:
1) Brahaman- enlightenment (Spirit/HM or #2?)
2) Paramata (considered 2 parts within us - 1 acts & the other watches…I AM that I AM/God/HF
3) Bhagavad (Personal expression of God in form - Son)

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Alan Watts is not my guru or anything - & some of his opinions I disagree with but I thought this was insightful…

Religion…
8: Christianity has become an emasculated gospel.. an impossible religion, expected to be as Christ when we are not … it institutionalized guilt as a virtue…
11: the real good news is you are also a powerful son or daughter of God.
14: western religions have taken the form of celestial monarchies - & not the religion of Christ - which was the realization of divine sonship. The main Christianity pedestalizes Jesus - says, “You better recognize only this (pedestalized) Jesus.”
16: churches should be places of contemplation (con-templ… go to temple to be still.
https://youtu.be/0wi7Wtocj9M

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Jeshua is ur guru right

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Ymarsakar wrote: July 9th, 2023, 5:01 am Jeshua is ur guru right
Not really. Who is Jeshua? Mostly a compilation of centuries of projected ideals. Not exactly bad but not what I’d call a guru either. God is my God - nobody else. Why have anyone except the highest GOoD be your god?

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Thinker wrote: July 11th, 2023, 11:00 am
Ymarsakar wrote: July 9th, 2023, 5:01 am Jeshua is ur guru right
Not really. Who is Jeshua? Mostly a compilation of centuries of projected ideals. Not exactly bad but not what I’d call a guru either. God is my God - nobody else. Why have anyone except the highest GOoD be your god?
Jeshua is a combination of Yeshua, the likely aramaic name that you know of as Jesus/Savior. Similar to Joshua/Ya Ha Shua.

Most of YHSVH's messengers bear a similar phonetic resonance. Yashua. Jeshua. Jeremiah, Yah ra miah.

It's not easily traceable in the English but in the Hebrew the connection is very close.

That is because the pronunciation is similar to the name Yod Heh itself. Ya Ha, Ya Heh.

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Niemand wrote: April 13th, 2023, 8:26 am
Thinker wrote: March 23rd, 2023, 8:56 am  The Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods were sacrificed for the ‘sins of mankind’ and resurrected on the third day.
I have heard these claims before, but there is one aspect in which they do not stand up. The gods of these people were supposedly immortal. The only gods who could be killed effectively were the Norse, but they don't come into play here. If we want to go down the angle of Joseph Campbell and Frazer's Golden Bough, it tended to be the demi-gods who were killed. Jesus does fit that paradigm to some extent, since he was half-human.

There are similarities between the Christ "myth" and pagan religions, but what I tend to find online, especially social media is that people try and exaggerate those similarities or gather the similarities into one figure such as Osiris or Krishna. Once you look at each of those two more closely, they don't resemble Christ that much...

I have not come across any Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods that paid the price of mankinds sin with their blood.
The egyptian god Osirius was killed by another god desirous of his throne and had nothing to do with paying for the sins of mankind.
Mithras was not slain at all, but slew a bull.
Like Neimand when young I had a great interest in ancient history, religions, had access to some of the best books in my desires to see if there was any ancient references to the coming of our Great God and Saviour to this earth amongst those commonly known as Pagans.
The only history of a people that is coherant in its history, both secular and religious is the History written by the Israelites.
And when read by the Lamp of the Spirit, the old Testament and the New brightly unify and testify of Jesus of Nazerath as both the God of the old and new testaments, the King, Redeemer, Savior of all creation both seen and unseen thru his sacrifice apon the cross, the blood shed there as payment of sin and His arising from the dead.
Some pagan religions of ancient date have fragments no doubt passed down very much corrupted that came across from the flood with Noah whom would of preserved the knowledge of God Himself coming to this earth to pay the price of sin in the meridian of time. However as stated in said pagan faiths these fragments of truth concerning the Manifestation of God in the flesh to bring forth salvation was very, very corrupted and fragmented amongst them.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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Thinker wrote: December 29th, 2022, 9:37 amSome of the longest-lasting & recent EMPIRES:
27 BC - 476 AD Roman
200 - 1453 Byzantine/Constinople
224-651 Sassanian - Persia/Iraq
750-1258 Abbasid Caliphate - Islam
1415-1999 Portugués
1453-1922 Ottoman - Turkish/Constinople
1492-1975 Spanish
Late 1500’s - ? British By 1913 1/4 world pop & land
1600’s - 1960 French Colonization
1636-1912 Qing Dynasty - China
1721-1917 Russian
1868 - 1947 Japanese
Late 1800’s - present US Imperialism (800 US bases in 80 countries)
1917-1989,90,91 – Soviet bloc. Russia still has several colonies in post-Soviet times.

I would also argue that Chinese imperialism is ongoing especially in the case of Tibet and the western provinces.

It is difficult to say if and when the British Empire actually ended. It has a number of rocks and small islands around the place, and influence through the Commonwealth, NATO, the stock market etc. It jettisoned most of its colonies between 1945 and 1980. Hong Kong went to Communist China in the late 1990s, but there are significant outposts around such as Bermuda, Gibraltar, the bases in Cyprus and the Falkland Islands. (I think I heard about a billion £ a year is put into the Falklands' defence.)

Overlooked ones: Dutch imperialism, which at one point controlled Indonesia and parts of the Caribbean. I would date that from the 16th century down to post-WW2. Most of its cultural influence, ironically, tends to be from former colonies that the British Empire took over e.g. New Amsterdam (New York) and the Cape Colony (South Africa). Its presence in continental North America was over long before US independence although Van Buren came from those origins. (As did Rip van Winkle. 🙂) It was also the only western power allowed access to Japan for a long time. The Dutch had a lot of colonial interests, just mostly not at the same time.

Venetian Empire - 900s to 19th century. Mostly based in Eastern Mediterranean.

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Re: Christian Origins?

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On the other thread… viewtopic.php?t=73894&start=75 … we got into a debate about human sacrifice scapegoating and whether pretending cannibalism even symbolically in the sacrament is good or not.

This clip kind of sums up what I was trying to say: as Christianity is today (tradition from the twisting of Scripture by Saul, Constantine etc), is all talk & crazy talk at that because they miss the whole point. True Christianity is action - likening Christ’s example to us in bearing our cross rather than trying to shift our pain to others.

N’s criticism of Christianity 1m: https://youtube.com/shorts/xt863t9HT3s?feature=shared

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