Its time this is revealed.

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
Valo
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Posts: 974

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Valo »

jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:12 am
Valo wrote: August 28th, 2019, 9:17 am
jmack wrote: August 28th, 2019, 9:13 am
Valo wrote: August 28th, 2019, 9:01 am What tpoe111 is saying makes sense to me because the Holy Scriptures say the same thing.

Tpoe111 is saying that us LDS are mostly hypocrites. We haven't established Zion, we have rejected the principles of charity in favor of a lower law because of unbelief.

We don't really believe our own doctrine.

We are blind to this fact. We think we are special, in a better position than others because, well, we have our temples and our priesthoods, and our special rituals, and ordinances, and we spend our time doing these activities, yet we judge and neglect the weak, the poor, the downtrodden, the ill, the sick, the strange, the ones who God made different, the abused, etc.

We mock, we ridicule, we put down, we bicker, we fight, we focus our time and energy on things that will fade away in time.

Only a few have the true spirit of Christ in them.

Mankind is prone to be haughty and prideful until they are brought low and for their sakes, mankind will be brought low until they remember again their God, remember again their true covenants, until they remember again Zion

Valo
And still the Lord loves us, he died for us lowly sinful, flawed people and he continually calls us to strive to be like him and follow him, that love is what's missing from poe111. Because he's claiming to be the Lord but is obviously not, I think I'd rather read actual scriptures to receive the Lord's messages to us.
Yes, because He loves us He will bring us low.

God does that from time to time.

Point is, do you have charity? Real charity?

It's been almost 200 years and no Zion.

Valo
That’s the wrong question. Have I experienced real charity? Do I know how it feels? Do I know the Master's vioce? You only know the master you serve. He loves us and sometimes he chastens us, I know that myself. The Master's voice is not in poe's writing, that I can discern, I'm not going to pretend to humor him or anyone else here. I don't mock him because I don't know his heart and why he does this. But neither is he who he claims to be, regardless.
OK, believe that it's the wrong question if you like. I've come to the conclusion that this is the only question that really matters.

Whatever you wanna say, everything that has been written by this person is echoed in the Holy Scriptures. EVERYTHING!

The point is that the Church is living in error because we have not established Zion. The Church is not set apart. We are no more special than any other Christian denomination out there. Don't talk theory, talk reality.

Valo

Valo
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Posts: 974

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Valo »

jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:01 am Truth is not independent from the messenger, that isn't how god works, go read the old testament if you trust it as scripture.


Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo

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John Tavner
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Posts: 4154

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by John Tavner »

Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:00 am
jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:01 am Truth is not independent from the messenger, that isn't how god works, go read the old testament if you trust it as scripture.


Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo
I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.

Hosh
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Posts: 836

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Hosh »

John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:15 am
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:00 am
jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:01 am Truth is not independent from the messenger, that isn't how god works, go read the old testament if you trust it as scripture.


Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo
I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.
Well said brother. I agree with this. Thanks for the insight!

larsenb
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Posts: 10813
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by larsenb »

Stahura wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:39 pm Guys.... ignore everything he says.

This was him after the first 2 or 3 times being banned:

CLICK HERE
Hello, my intention coming on this forum was to help people come close to Christ, I feel at times I am inspired by the spirit of Christ as all good things come from God. But I feel my mind was mislead and I believed it was my own spirit now that the person I believed was a messenger to help me overcome the world has said they were mislead and is having a break down I now feel that I was mislead also through him and am not Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour who was upon earth in the past and lived a perfect sinless life and arose to Heavens. I ask forgiveness of anyone I have effected in any way of any judgements I have faced and only pray that I can be forgiven of my sins as well, it was not my place to judge anyone and I did it thinking I was helping them my intention was always to help people I am sorry for all the things ive done. I hope you can all forgive me and pray for me for years I have selflessly giving and found out the person lied to me, much money was lost in trying to help in a third world country. The loss of money doesn't bother me but being mislead into what I believed I was does, the true Christ is perfect you are all right I am far from perfect and ask your forgiveness for my errors. I believe the church of LDS is the church of God it has done so many good things it doctrines are inspirational and good and so I now believe that we should only heed the words of it leadership that Thomas S Monsom is a true prophet of God and there to lead the church. I say this after much prayer and am confused now myself so many things occurred that lead to me accepting this belief but now I see I errored. May all forgive me for my errors I am not Jesus Christ and was mislead for years by listening to someone I thought was a messenger. May we all find happiness and the joy that is only found in Christ.

I will be leaving this forum if you want I have had a change of heart after much prayer and tears this is why I now do this in humility and repentance to undo any damage I might done. I still believe we all fall short and should not mock one another or judge and let us just discern and take not of things without deep prayer and seeking from our Father in Heaven. I forgive all for anything that happened and hope you can all forgive me as well. I would like people to disregard my opinions on this forum as I now cant call it revelation and believe we should all seek the words of Christ and live by them and let it be our guide and listen to the council of the leaders of LDS.
He had a "messenger" that was "helping him overcome the world".

Then that messenger said that he himself was being misled, and therefore our messiah friend here decided he too was being misled.

He then stated that he is not Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior, as he had previously claimed to be.

He said sorry, asked for forgiveness, and asked us to disregard everything he had previously said.


Now.. he's back, saying the exact same stuff he was saying before, talking as if he's Jesus. Shall we now regard his ideas when he told us to disregard them?
I haven't followed 111's outpourings very much, but this self-revelation he gives is certainly revealing. Thanks, Stahura.

So, now he's flipped your standing with the higher PTB? This seems really inconsistent. All you did was tell the truth about what he had said earlier about his situation . . . and you're being condemned for it? How could anyone take him seriously after that damning self-confession?

But is the identity of 'Emmanuel' with 111 certain??

At any rate, quite the performance by 111. It would be interesting to meet him face-to-face for a chat.

Zathura
Follow the Prophet
Posts: 8801

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Zathura »

larsenb wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:38 am
Stahura wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:39 pm Guys.... ignore everything he says.

This was him after the first 2 or 3 times being banned:

CLICK HERE
Hello, my intention coming on this forum was to help people come close to Christ, I feel at times I am inspired by the spirit of Christ as all good things come from God. But I feel my mind was mislead and I believed it was my own spirit now that the person I believed was a messenger to help me overcome the world has said they were mislead and is having a break down I now feel that I was mislead also through him and am not Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour who was upon earth in the past and lived a perfect sinless life and arose to Heavens. I ask forgiveness of anyone I have effected in any way of any judgements I have faced and only pray that I can be forgiven of my sins as well, it was not my place to judge anyone and I did it thinking I was helping them my intention was always to help people I am sorry for all the things ive done. I hope you can all forgive me and pray for me for years I have selflessly giving and found out the person lied to me, much money was lost in trying to help in a third world country. The loss of money doesn't bother me but being mislead into what I believed I was does, the true Christ is perfect you are all right I am far from perfect and ask your forgiveness for my errors. I believe the church of LDS is the church of God it has done so many good things it doctrines are inspirational and good and so I now believe that we should only heed the words of it leadership that Thomas S Monsom is a true prophet of God and there to lead the church. I say this after much prayer and am confused now myself so many things occurred that lead to me accepting this belief but now I see I errored. May all forgive me for my errors I am not Jesus Christ and was mislead for years by listening to someone I thought was a messenger. May we all find happiness and the joy that is only found in Christ.

I will be leaving this forum if you want I have had a change of heart after much prayer and tears this is why I now do this in humility and repentance to undo any damage I might done. I still believe we all fall short and should not mock one another or judge and let us just discern and take not of things without deep prayer and seeking from our Father in Heaven. I forgive all for anything that happened and hope you can all forgive me as well. I would like people to disregard my opinions on this forum as I now cant call it revelation and believe we should all seek the words of Christ and live by them and let it be our guide and listen to the council of the leaders of LDS.
He had a "messenger" that was "helping him overcome the world".

Then that messenger said that he himself was being misled, and therefore our messiah friend here decided he too was being misled.

He then stated that he is not Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior, as he had previously claimed to be.

He said sorry, asked for forgiveness, and asked us to disregard everything he had previously said.


Now.. he's back, saying the exact same stuff he was saying before, talking as if he's Jesus. Shall we now regard his ideas when he told us to disregard them?
I haven't followed 111's outpourings very much, but this self-revelation he gives is certainly revealing. Thanks, Stahura.

So, now he's flipped your standing with the higher PTB? This seems really inconsistent. All you did was tell the truth about what he had said earlier about his situation . . . and you're being condemned for it?
Right?

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Alaris
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Alaris »

Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:58 pm
gangbusters wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:50 pm
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:48 pm
gangbusters wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:32 pm

Ok, so how am I setting the Savior’s counsels at naught by discounting the ramblings of a guy who thinks he’s God? Your implying that I’m setting the counsels of God aside because I’m committed to following his anointed prophets and honoring covenants I’ve made with him is mind bogglingly absurd.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to say you were setting at naught his counsils, I was in general addressing your argument that you could not be like the Jews because you didn't crucify the Savior. I'm talking about that general statement. It's not a good argument in general because each of us has been guilty from time to time of setting at naught the Lord and not hearkening to the voice of His cousils. I'm not really interested in discussing the Powerof Eternity guy. I'm more addressing the attitude of dismissal. Yes this guy may very well be delusional. But I keep an open mind because in the future, there will be prophets who break the mold of what we think a prophet should look and sound like.
You may be right, but if they’re true prophets they’ll come from the true church and we’ll know them by that way at least.
Maybe your right. But I believe the scriptures say otherwise. Guess that's why it's so important to make sure we are in tune with the Holy Spirit. We are heading in to some confusing/troubling times if we don't have the Lord as our guide.
dudes - Samuel the Lamanite.

And dudes - our own prophet said you have to learn to receive directly from the spirit to survive spiritually.

... and there's an end times Elias ... who restores all things....

There's the parable of the bridegroom - put it all together and you're not going to make it into the wedding by letting our prophets and apostles do all the revealing for you. Somehow - somehow they will not be around to hold your hand when the virgins sifting occurs imho.

As for PoE - just like Joseph Smith, there's an "all or nothing" - I know Jesef may disagree, but in my mind either Joseph Smith was a prophet or a fraud, and there's no in between. Either he restored the Church of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood, or it was all make believe.

You cannot pretend to be Jehovah Himself or His voice and still maintain any degree of legitimacy when in fact he's not - no matter how many slivers of truth he gets right. The devil had his way with the Catholic church and you can still see plenty of slivers of truth in their doctrine.

Anyway - I agree we should be kind to this man, but the folks who think his message is legitimate is really disconcerting. You must learn to receive from the Spirit to survive spiritually. That spirit gives me a clear "nope" any time I see PoE post anything.

Hosh
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Posts: 836

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Hosh »

Alaris wrote: September 4th, 2019, 11:14 am
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:58 pm
gangbusters wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:50 pm
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:48 pm

I'm sorry I didn't mean to say you were setting at naught his counsils, I was in general addressing your argument that you could not be like the Jews because you didn't crucify the Savior. I'm talking about that general statement. It's not a good argument in general because each of us has been guilty from time to time of setting at naught the Lord and not hearkening to the voice of His cousils. I'm not really interested in discussing the Powerof Eternity guy. I'm more addressing the attitude of dismissal. Yes this guy may very well be delusional. But I keep an open mind because in the future, there will be prophets who break the mold of what we think a prophet should look and sound like.
You may be right, but if they’re true prophets they’ll come from the true church and we’ll know them by that way at least.
Maybe your right. But I believe the scriptures say otherwise. Guess that's why it's so important to make sure we are in tune with the Holy Spirit. We are heading in to some confusing/troubling times if we don't have the Lord as our guide.
dudes - Samuel the Lamanite.

And dudes - our own prophet said you have to learn to receive directly from the spirit to survive spiritually.

... and there's an end times Elias ... who restores all things....

There's the parable of the bridegroom - put it all together and you're not going to make it into the wedding by letting our prophets and apostles do all the revealing for you. Somehow - somehow they will not be around to hold your hand when the virgins sifting occurs imho.

As for PoE - just like Joseph Smith, there's an "all or nothing" - I know Jesef may disagree, but in my mind either Joseph Smith was a prophet or a fraud, and there's no in between. Either he restored the Church of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood, or it was all make believe.

You cannot pretend to be Jehovah Himself or His voice and still maintain any degree of legitimacy when in fact he's not - no matter how many slivers of truth he gets right. The devil had his way with the Catholic church and you can still see plenty of slivers of truth in their doctrine.

Anyway - I agree we should be kind to this man, but the folks who think his message is legitimate is really disconcerting. You must learn to receive from the Spirit to survive spiritually. That spirit gives me a clear "nope" any time I see PoE post anything.
I think people misunderstand me. I dont think his message is legitimate. I think there are "slivers of truth" that can be discerned. Now would I ever go and read a book he publishes or follow him in any way? No. We should read from the BEST books and seek out veins that have the Most light and truth. But to say it's an all or nothing kind of thing is not true. Would you say you as a person are "all or nothing" as far as the amount of truth you speak at this stage of progression? I know I am not "all or nothing." I don't claim that everything I say is either truth or not. Right now many of us see in part. We see through a glass darkly. We are as children not yet having that which is perfect. You cannot say it is all or nothing with everyone. Yes when God calls His servants to go forth in power that is one thing. But it's not all or nothing with the rest of us who are seeking further light and truth.

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Baurak Ale
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Baurak Ale »

I'll second your testimony and plain reasoning, Alaris.

We would all do well to remember Hiram E. Page: his seer stone was not ordered to be destroyed by God for attempting to reveal that Zion would not come but for attempting to reveal where it would come. This was in violation of a handy key we ought to watch carefully: the key of the mysteries (or "keys" if you prefer). Alma sums it up thusly:

"It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men" (Alma 12:9). Though you or I may know the mysteries of God, it is the prerogative of he who holds the key of the mysteries to unlock (or lock away!*) a portion of God's word to the church/world at large. As an example of this principle in action:

Lorenzo Snow in 1840 said "the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." This is when he received by revelation the famous couplet: “As man now is, God once was: / As God now is, man may be.” The Prophet Joseph Smith himself publicly taught the doctrine a whole four years later 1844, and, "once the Prophet Joseph had taught the doctrine publicly, Elder Snow also felt free to publicly teach it, and it was a common theme of his teachings throughout his life" (Gerald N. Lund, Ensign, February 1982).

When I see someone teaching for doctrine or writing commandments of things and to those whom they ought not per this key, then I take it that the spirit that inspires them has gone from being a divine one to a devilish one, most likely without their notice (the devil speaks very polished King James English, as it turns out).

Note: it is a different thing entirely to speculate and interpret scriptures and believe as one pleases.



*Locking away a mystery does not constitute its being untrue; it just cannot be taught authoritatively anymore and is reserved for personal revelation for those who seek diligently. This is the status of most "deep doctrine" today.
Alaris wrote: September 4th, 2019, 11:14 am
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:58 pm
gangbusters wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:50 pm
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:48 pm

I'm sorry I didn't mean to say you were setting at naught his counsils, I was in general addressing your argument that you could not be like the Jews because you didn't crucify the Savior. I'm talking about that general statement. It's not a good argument in general because each of us has been guilty from time to time of setting at naught the Lord and not hearkening to the voice of His cousils. I'm not really interested in discussing the Powerof Eternity guy. I'm more addressing the attitude of dismissal. Yes this guy may very well be delusional. But I keep an open mind because in the future, there will be prophets who break the mold of what we think a prophet should look and sound like.
You may be right, but if they’re true prophets they’ll come from the true church and we’ll know them by that way at least.
Maybe your right. But I believe the scriptures say otherwise. Guess that's why it's so important to make sure we are in tune with the Holy Spirit. We are heading in to some confusing/troubling times if we don't have the Lord as our guide.
dudes - Samuel the Lamanite.

And dudes - our own prophet said you have to learn to receive directly from the spirit to survive spiritually.

... and there's an end times Elias ... who restores all things....

There's the parable of the bridegroom - put it all together and you're not going to make it into the wedding by letting our prophets and apostles do all the revealing for you. Somehow - somehow they will not be around to hold your hand when the virgins sifting occurs imho.

As for PoE - just like Joseph Smith, there's an "all or nothing" - I know Jesef may disagree, but in my mind either Joseph Smith was a prophet or a fraud, and there's no in between. Either he restored the Church of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood, or it was all make believe.

You cannot pretend to be Jehovah Himself or His voice and still maintain any degree of legitimacy when in fact he's not - no matter how many slivers of truth he gets right. The devil had his way with the Catholic church and you can still see plenty of slivers of truth in their doctrine.

Anyway - I agree we should be kind to this man, but the folks who think his message is legitimate is really disconcerting. You must learn to receive from the Spirit to survive spiritually. That spirit gives me a clear "nope" any time I see PoE post anything.

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John Tavner
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Posts: 4154

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by John Tavner »

Hosh4710 wrote: September 4th, 2019, 11:53 am
Alaris wrote: September 4th, 2019, 11:14 am
Hosh4710 wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:58 pm
gangbusters wrote: August 27th, 2019, 8:50 pm

You may be right, but if they’re true prophets they’ll come from the true church and we’ll know them by that way at least.
Maybe your right. But I believe the scriptures say otherwise. Guess that's why it's so important to make sure we are in tune with the Holy Spirit. We are heading in to some confusing/troubling times if we don't have the Lord as our guide.
dudes - Samuel the Lamanite.

And dudes - our own prophet said you have to learn to receive directly from the spirit to survive spiritually.

... and there's an end times Elias ... who restores all things....

There's the parable of the bridegroom - put it all together and you're not going to make it into the wedding by letting our prophets and apostles do all the revealing for you. Somehow - somehow they will not be around to hold your hand when the virgins sifting occurs imho.

As for PoE - just like Joseph Smith, there's an "all or nothing" - I know Jesef may disagree, but in my mind either Joseph Smith was a prophet or a fraud, and there's no in between. Either he restored the Church of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood, or it was all make believe.

You cannot pretend to be Jehovah Himself or His voice and still maintain any degree of legitimacy when in fact he's not - no matter how many slivers of truth he gets right. The devil had his way with the Catholic church and you can still see plenty of slivers of truth in their doctrine.

Anyway - I agree we should be kind to this man, but the folks who think his message is legitimate is really disconcerting. You must learn to receive from the Spirit to survive spiritually. That spirit gives me a clear "nope" any time I see PoE post anything.


I think people misunderstand me. I dont think his message is legitimate. I think there are "slivers of truth" that can be discerned. Now would I ever go and read a book he publishes or follow him in any way? No. We should read from the BEST books and seek out veins that have the Most light and truth. But to say it's an all or nothing kind of thing is not true. Would you say you as a person are "all or nothing" as far as the amount of truth you speak at this stage of progression? I know I am not "all or nothing." I don't claim that everything I say is either truth or not. Right now many of us see in part. We see through a glass darkly. We are as children not yet having that which is perfect. You cannot say it is all or nothing with everyone. Yes when God calls His servants to go forth in power that is one thing. But it's not all or nothing with the rest of us who are seeking further light and truth.
This is more in response to Alaris and Barauk than you... I agree with what you are saying.

The interesting thing about my experience with Spirits is this - you can be testifying of truth and with te Spirit of truth - when another Spirit can come and influence you as well. So there can be 5 sentences spoken by the SPirit of truth and then 10 that are not. For instance have you ever given a testimony in sacrament. You knew you spoke what you needed to, but then kept on talking for just a bit longer? Then the power by which you speak seems to dwindle and you regret having continued to speak?

“One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from where it may.” - Joseph Smith

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Green Rose
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Green Rose »

Elizabeth wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:33 am Where is the above to be found in the Scriptures?
Elizabeth, this is Lamentations chapter 2.

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Green Rose
captain of 50
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Green Rose »

To ThePowerofEternity111,

Thank you for all you have shared and stated.

Valo
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Valo »

John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:15 am
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:00 am
jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:01 am Truth is not independent from the messenger, that isn't how god works, go read the old testament if you trust it as scripture.


Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo
I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.
Sure and I think what happens sometimes too is that because a person might not have received something from the Spirit of truth in the words of a messenger, it therefore means that nobody received something from the Spirit of Truth in the words of the messenger. Whoever that messenger might be.

We can only know for ourselves if what is being taught is from the Spirit of Truth and/or if it is being received by the very same Spirit. It's possible that the Spirit of Truth is only speaking to one individual in the crowd and the message isn't for the rest. We don't know and so we don't judge. We listen, we consider, and we allow the Spirit to teach or to inform us and this happens on an individual basis.

Valo

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John Tavner
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Posts: 4154

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by John Tavner »

Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:21 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:15 am
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:00 am
jmack wrote: September 4th, 2019, 8:01 am Truth is not independent from the messenger, that isn't how god works, go read the old testament if you trust it as scripture.


Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo
I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.
Sure and I think what happens sometimes too is that because a person might not have received something from the Spirit of truth in the words of a messenger, it therefore means that nobody received something from the Spirit of Truth in the words of the messenger. Whoever that messenger might be.

We can only know for ourselves if what is being taught is from the Spirit of Truth and/or if it is being received by the very same Spirit. It's possible that the Spirit of Truth is only speaking to one individual in the crowd and the message isn't for the rest. We don't know and so we don't judge. We listen, we consider, and we allow the Spirit to teach or to inform us and this happens on an individual basis.

Valo
That can be true - or there can be a nugget of truth taught by the Spirit of Truth for all in the entire message and the rest not, or the entire message may be taught by the Spirit of Truth, but everyone rejects it and hatefully despises the messenger. I do believe there is a contextualization needed to discern as well - one must see the fruits and whether those fruits are good. What is the intent of the deliverer. For instance Lucifer was absolutely throwing down some truths when talking with Adam and Eve... but he left out some important contextualization and did it out of order. Intent matters as well.

In the end this is why the Discerning of Spirits is such a necessary gift to ask of the Lord. One of the first discourses that Joseph Smith gave was on discernment. For instance there have been messages that I have heard which had and I believe much was taught by the Spirit of truth, but I knew the message was not for me - I didn't question the source, but it just wasn't for me.

Sometimes we can tell by our reaction where we ourselves are at. I think you bring up a good point though, that we shouldn't condemn. We are supposed to judge righteous judgment - otherwise we will be blown by whatever wind of doctrine comes next. If we are reacting with anger, rage, or contention - we can know that we ourselves are not right and should repent. However, if we can see that something is clearly taught by an unclean or evil spirit and it is not accompanied by a bad emotion or thought toward the individual, we can more likely know it is from God what we have felt.

For instance if I were to critique what PoE said, by biggest critique isn't so much what he said, because most of it is true in my opinion, what bothered me most, however is he kept telling us what to do - not how. In other words, it seemed like he failed to mention in here to come unto Christ. I have discovered in my own life that works without the Spirit are dead works. I can't earn my way into heaven no matter what I do. I would rather beat my chest and claim to be a sinner, and accept mercy rather than to "do" everything needed to get into heaven. In my view there wasn't much a push for someone to come unto Christ - rather to do works that people would say are good (whether or not they really are). That being said, I haven't read everything he has said carefully and I may ahve missed it, but that is the red flag for me. However, I hold no ill will toward him whatsoever and really do wish him the best. I hope we both can embrace in heaven and rejoice that we both made it.

Valo
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Posts: 974

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Valo »

John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:48 pm
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:21 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:15 am
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:00 am

Your statement is a common cognitive distortion or a common fallacy. You are very much mistaken if you believe truth is determined by the messenger or the person speaking it.

Truth is independent, otherwise it isn't truth. Your belief paradigm can't logically exist. It is literally nonsensical. Not because you are a bad person and because I'm mocking you, but, your thinking in this case is incorrect.

Take a moment and try to separate your socio-centric values from your mind and truly consider the idea that truth is independent. It has to be. Truth can't be relative to the speaker or to the messenger, otherwise, it's just opinion. What is real, is real no matter who says it, who says its not, etc.

One of the most important things you can learn to do for yourself in this life is to learn to hear truth from whatever source it might come from, because, ultimately TRUTH has only one source, and that is Christ. Christ IS light, life, and truth. So, all truth, no matter who speaks it, is part of the ONE GREAT TRUTH.

Valo
I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.
Sure and I think what happens sometimes too is that because a person might not have received something from the Spirit of truth in the words of a messenger, it therefore means that nobody received something from the Spirit of Truth in the words of the messenger. Whoever that messenger might be.

We can only know for ourselves if what is being taught is from the Spirit of Truth and/or if it is being received by the very same Spirit. It's possible that the Spirit of Truth is only speaking to one individual in the crowd and the message isn't for the rest. We don't know and so we don't judge. We listen, we consider, and we allow the Spirit to teach or to inform us and this happens on an individual basis.

Valo
That can be true - or there can be a nugget of truth taught by the Spirit of Truth for all in the entire message and the rest not, or the entire message may be taught by the Spirit of Truth, but everyone rejects it and hatefully despises the messenger. I do believe there is a contextualization needed to discern as well - one must see the fruits and whether those fruits are good. What is the intent of the deliverer. For instance Lucifer was absolutely throwing down some truths when talking with Adam and Eve... but he left out some important contextualization and did it out of order. Intent matters as well.

In the end this is why the Discerning of Spirits is such a necessary gift to ask of the Lord. One of the first discourses that Joseph Smith gave was on discernment. For instance there have been messages that I have heard which had and I believe much was taught by the Spirit of truth, but I knew the message was not for me - I didn't question the source, but it just wasn't for me.

Sometimes we can tell by our reaction where we ourselves are at. I think you bring up a good point though, that we shouldn't condemn. We are supposed to judge righteous judgment - otherwise we will be blown by whatever wind of doctrine comes next. If we are reacting with anger, rage, or contention - we can know that we ourselves are not right and should repent. However, if we can see that something is clearly taught by an unclean or evil spirit and it is not accompanied by a bad emotion or thought toward the individual, we can more likely know it is from God what we have felt.

For instance if I were to critique what PoE said, by biggest critique isn't so much what he said, because most of it is true in my opinion, what bothered me most, however is he kept telling us what to do - not how. In other words, it seemed like he failed to mention in here to come unto Christ. I have discovered in my own life that works without the Spirit are dead works. I can't earn my way into heaven no matter what I do. I would rather beat my chest and claim to be a sinner, and accept mercy rather than to "do" everything needed to get into heaven. In my view there wasn't much a push for someone to come unto Christ - rather to do works that people would say are good (whether or not they really are). That being said, I haven't read everything he has said carefully and I may ahve missed it, but that is the red flag for me. However, I hold no ill will toward him whatsoever and really do wish him the best. I hope we both can embrace in heaven and rejoice that we both made it.
He didn't say "Come unto Christ" because he claims to be Christ. He was speaking as one with authority. He was speaking as The Author. In context it wouldn't make sense for him to say something like, "Come unto Christ" or what not. So, given his claim, he is logically consistent on that point.

I read it, said to myself, sounds exactly like what I read in the scriptures (lots of it is direct quotes!). But, but, he says he is Jesus! He said he was manipulated and that he wasn't really Jesus but there is a new timeline and the old timeline is no longer relevant, and...I don't care. That isn't his message. That's there to test me to see if I'll ridicule him, dismiss him, not consider his words, call him crazy, argue with him, fight him, etc. That's all that is. It's a test. However, my job in this instance and in this context (internet discussion forum) is to read his words, consider them sincerely, and that is how I've found to be able to discern truth or Spirit.

To be clear, listen to him, treat him with respect, consider his words, put aside irrelevant things, and pay attention, HOWEVER, don't start worshiping him, don't start praying to him, don't send him any money, don't make that flesh and blood behind the keyboard the object of your worship and faith.

Valo

User avatar
John Tavner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4154

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by John Tavner »

Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:07 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:48 pm
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:21 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:15 am

I agree that truth just is and doesn't matter about the messenger. PoE does teach may truths. That being said, we should not teach truth unless we have the Spirit telling us to (I fail at this often myself). I have my own opinion of PoE and by which spirit he teaches what he teaches. We all will need the gift of the discernment more in the future.

D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

So to recap though it may be truth and the word of truth - it might not be received or preached by the Spirit of truth. If it is not taught or received this way, it isn't of God.
Sure and I think what happens sometimes too is that because a person might not have received something from the Spirit of truth in the words of a messenger, it therefore means that nobody received something from the Spirit of Truth in the words of the messenger. Whoever that messenger might be.

We can only know for ourselves if what is being taught is from the Spirit of Truth and/or if it is being received by the very same Spirit. It's possible that the Spirit of Truth is only speaking to one individual in the crowd and the message isn't for the rest. We don't know and so we don't judge. We listen, we consider, and we allow the Spirit to teach or to inform us and this happens on an individual basis.

Valo
That can be true - or there can be a nugget of truth taught by the Spirit of Truth for all in the entire message and the rest not, or the entire message may be taught by the Spirit of Truth, but everyone rejects it and hatefully despises the messenger. I do believe there is a contextualization needed to discern as well - one must see the fruits and whether those fruits are good. What is the intent of the deliverer. For instance Lucifer was absolutely throwing down some truths when talking with Adam and Eve... but he left out some important contextualization and did it out of order. Intent matters as well.

In the end this is why the Discerning of Spirits is such a necessary gift to ask of the Lord. One of the first discourses that Joseph Smith gave was on discernment. For instance there have been messages that I have heard which had and I believe much was taught by the Spirit of truth, but I knew the message was not for me - I didn't question the source, but it just wasn't for me.

Sometimes we can tell by our reaction where we ourselves are at. I think you bring up a good point though, that we shouldn't condemn. We are supposed to judge righteous judgment - otherwise we will be blown by whatever wind of doctrine comes next. If we are reacting with anger, rage, or contention - we can know that we ourselves are not right and should repent. However, if we can see that something is clearly taught by an unclean or evil spirit and it is not accompanied by a bad emotion or thought toward the individual, we can more likely know it is from God what we have felt.

For instance if I were to critique what PoE said, by biggest critique isn't so much what he said, because most of it is true in my opinion, what bothered me most, however is he kept telling us what to do - not how. In other words, it seemed like he failed to mention in here to come unto Christ. I have discovered in my own life that works without the Spirit are dead works. I can't earn my way into heaven no matter what I do. I would rather beat my chest and claim to be a sinner, and accept mercy rather than to "do" everything needed to get into heaven. In my view there wasn't much a push for someone to come unto Christ - rather to do works that people would say are good (whether or not they really are). That being said, I haven't read everything he has said carefully and I may ahve missed it, but that is the red flag for me. However, I hold no ill will toward him whatsoever and really do wish him the best. I hope we both can embrace in heaven and rejoice that we both made it.
He didn't say "Come unto Christ" because he claims to be Christ. He was speaking as one with authority. He was speaking as The Author. In context it wouldn't make sense for him to say something like, "Come unto Christ" or what not. So, given his claim, he is logically consistent on that point.

I read it, said to myself, sounds exactly like what I read in the scriptures (lots of it is direct quotes!). But, but, he says he is Jesus! He said he was manipulated and that he wasn't really Jesus but there is a new timeline and the old timeline is no longer relevant, and...I don't care. That isn't his message. That's there to test me to see if I'll ridicule him, dismiss him, not consider his words, call him crazy, argue with him, fight him, etc. That's all that is. It's a test. However, my job in this instance and in this context (internet discussion forum) is to read his words, consider them sincerely, and that is how I've found to be able to discern truth or Spirit.

To be clear, listen to him, treat him with respect, consider his words, put aside irrelevant things, and pay attention, HOWEVER, don't start worshiping him, don't start praying to him, don't send him any money, don't make that flesh and blood behind the keyboard the object of your worship and faith.

Valo
I'll respond more later, but Christ often said 'Come unto me."
He would have said come unto me.

Valo
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Posts: 974

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Valo »

John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:15 pm
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:07 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:48 pm
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Sure and I think what happens sometimes too is that because a person might not have received something from the Spirit of truth in the words of a messenger, it therefore means that nobody received something from the Spirit of Truth in the words of the messenger. Whoever that messenger might be.

We can only know for ourselves if what is being taught is from the Spirit of Truth and/or if it is being received by the very same Spirit. It's possible that the Spirit of Truth is only speaking to one individual in the crowd and the message isn't for the rest. We don't know and so we don't judge. We listen, we consider, and we allow the Spirit to teach or to inform us and this happens on an individual basis.

Valo
That can be true - or there can be a nugget of truth taught by the Spirit of Truth for all in the entire message and the rest not, or the entire message may be taught by the Spirit of Truth, but everyone rejects it and hatefully despises the messenger. I do believe there is a contextualization needed to discern as well - one must see the fruits and whether those fruits are good. What is the intent of the deliverer. For instance Lucifer was absolutely throwing down some truths when talking with Adam and Eve... but he left out some important contextualization and did it out of order. Intent matters as well.

In the end this is why the Discerning of Spirits is such a necessary gift to ask of the Lord. One of the first discourses that Joseph Smith gave was on discernment. For instance there have been messages that I have heard which had and I believe much was taught by the Spirit of truth, but I knew the message was not for me - I didn't question the source, but it just wasn't for me.

Sometimes we can tell by our reaction where we ourselves are at. I think you bring up a good point though, that we shouldn't condemn. We are supposed to judge righteous judgment - otherwise we will be blown by whatever wind of doctrine comes next. If we are reacting with anger, rage, or contention - we can know that we ourselves are not right and should repent. However, if we can see that something is clearly taught by an unclean or evil spirit and it is not accompanied by a bad emotion or thought toward the individual, we can more likely know it is from God what we have felt.

For instance if I were to critique what PoE said, by biggest critique isn't so much what he said, because most of it is true in my opinion, what bothered me most, however is he kept telling us what to do - not how. In other words, it seemed like he failed to mention in here to come unto Christ. I have discovered in my own life that works without the Spirit are dead works. I can't earn my way into heaven no matter what I do. I would rather beat my chest and claim to be a sinner, and accept mercy rather than to "do" everything needed to get into heaven. In my view there wasn't much a push for someone to come unto Christ - rather to do works that people would say are good (whether or not they really are). That being said, I haven't read everything he has said carefully and I may ahve missed it, but that is the red flag for me. However, I hold no ill will toward him whatsoever and really do wish him the best. I hope we both can embrace in heaven and rejoice that we both made it.
He didn't say "Come unto Christ" because he claims to be Christ. He was speaking as one with authority. He was speaking as The Author. In context it wouldn't make sense for him to say something like, "Come unto Christ" or what not. So, given his claim, he is logically consistent on that point.

I read it, said to myself, sounds exactly like what I read in the scriptures (lots of it is direct quotes!). But, but, he says he is Jesus! He said he was manipulated and that he wasn't really Jesus but there is a new timeline and the old timeline is no longer relevant, and...I don't care. That isn't his message. That's there to test me to see if I'll ridicule him, dismiss him, not consider his words, call him crazy, argue with him, fight him, etc. That's all that is. It's a test. However, my job in this instance and in this context (internet discussion forum) is to read his words, consider them sincerely, and that is how I've found to be able to discern truth or Spirit.

To be clear, listen to him, treat him with respect, consider his words, put aside irrelevant things, and pay attention, HOWEVER, don't start worshiping him, don't start praying to him, don't send him any money, don't make that flesh and blood behind the keyboard the object of your worship and faith.

Valo
I'll respond more later, but Christ often said 'Come unto me."
He would have said come unto me.
You don't have to respond. There is no doubt that Jesus said "Come unto me" but that is not the same as saying "Come unto Christ", which is what my comments are addressing. It doesn't make sense for TPOE to say "Come unto Christ" when he is claiming to be Jesus Christ.

But, you'll be happy to know that TPOE has invited others to come to him, with the understanding that he is Jesus. He has spoken Messianically, with calls to repent, to return to "His" fold, etc.

Valo

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John Tavner
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Posts: 4154

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by John Tavner »

Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:21 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:15 pm
Valo wrote: September 4th, 2019, 4:07 pm
John Tavner wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:48 pm

That can be true - or there can be a nugget of truth taught by the Spirit of Truth for all in the entire message and the rest not, or the entire message may be taught by the Spirit of Truth, but everyone rejects it and hatefully despises the messenger. I do believe there is a contextualization needed to discern as well - one must see the fruits and whether those fruits are good. What is the intent of the deliverer. For instance Lucifer was absolutely throwing down some truths when talking with Adam and Eve... but he left out some important contextualization and did it out of order. Intent matters as well.

In the end this is why the Discerning of Spirits is such a necessary gift to ask of the Lord. One of the first discourses that Joseph Smith gave was on discernment. For instance there have been messages that I have heard which had and I believe much was taught by the Spirit of truth, but I knew the message was not for me - I didn't question the source, but it just wasn't for me.

Sometimes we can tell by our reaction where we ourselves are at. I think you bring up a good point though, that we shouldn't condemn. We are supposed to judge righteous judgment - otherwise we will be blown by whatever wind of doctrine comes next. If we are reacting with anger, rage, or contention - we can know that we ourselves are not right and should repent. However, if we can see that something is clearly taught by an unclean or evil spirit and it is not accompanied by a bad emotion or thought toward the individual, we can more likely know it is from God what we have felt.

For instance if I were to critique what PoE said, by biggest critique isn't so much what he said, because most of it is true in my opinion, what bothered me most, however is he kept telling us what to do - not how. In other words, it seemed like he failed to mention in here to come unto Christ. I have discovered in my own life that works without the Spirit are dead works. I can't earn my way into heaven no matter what I do. I would rather beat my chest and claim to be a sinner, and accept mercy rather than to "do" everything needed to get into heaven. In my view there wasn't much a push for someone to come unto Christ - rather to do works that people would say are good (whether or not they really are). That being said, I haven't read everything he has said carefully and I may ahve missed it, but that is the red flag for me. However, I hold no ill will toward him whatsoever and really do wish him the best. I hope we both can embrace in heaven and rejoice that we both made it.
He didn't say "Come unto Christ" because he claims to be Christ. He was speaking as one with authority. He was speaking as The Author. In context it wouldn't make sense for him to say something like, "Come unto Christ" or what not. So, given his claim, he is logically consistent on that point.

I read it, said to myself, sounds exactly like what I read in the scriptures (lots of it is direct quotes!). But, but, he says he is Jesus! He said he was manipulated and that he wasn't really Jesus but there is a new timeline and the old timeline is no longer relevant, and...I don't care. That isn't his message. That's there to test me to see if I'll ridicule him, dismiss him, not consider his words, call him crazy, argue with him, fight him, etc. That's all that is. It's a test. However, my job in this instance and in this context (internet discussion forum) is to read his words, consider them sincerely, and that is how I've found to be able to discern truth or Spirit.

To be clear, listen to him, treat him with respect, consider his words, put aside irrelevant things, and pay attention, HOWEVER, don't start worshiping him, don't start praying to him, don't send him any money, don't make that flesh and blood behind the keyboard the object of your worship and faith.

Valo
I'll respond more later, but Christ often said 'Come unto me."
He would have said come unto me.
You don't have to respond. There is no doubt that Jesus said "Come unto me" but that is not the same as saying "Come unto Christ", which is what my comments are addressing. It doesn't make sense for TPOE to say "Come unto Christ" when he is claiming to be Jesus Christ.

But, you'll be happy to know that TPOE has invited others to come to him, with the understanding that he is Jesus. He has spoken Messianically, with calls to repent, to return to "His" fold, etc.

Valo
- te

Telling someone to repent, is different to most Mormons. Most do not view repentance in the same way as I do and I believe you do either. IT is more quitting sin to them - which is part of repentance, but lacking greatly in efficacy and there is more to it. Additionally (while i haven't read all of them) Those were more generic scripture quotes, not an actual invitation. It was different in how he did it - it was on the sly in my opinioin. Coming unto the fold is different than taking the yoke of Christ upon you or His burdens. It is generic. not the same as My sheep know my voice...
That being said, I do agree we shouldn't ridicule, worship etc.. etc.. I was just explaining my personal views and what I've learned and how I discerned - that was the most clear to me and a confirmation. That just being the cherry on top for this particular post about revealing something that seems paramount.

I'll also add, I've felt inspired to speak Messianically before when giving blessings so the Messianic part does not bother me.

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Elizabeth
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Posts: 11796
Location: East Coast Australia

Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Elizabeth »

I cannot find Lamentations Chapter 2 on LDS.org
Can anyone link to it?
Green Rose wrote: September 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Elizabeth wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:33 am Where is the above to be found in the Scriptures?
Elizabeth, this is Lamentations chapter 2.

gangbusters
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by gangbusters »

Elizabeth wrote: September 4th, 2019, 9:44 pm I cannot find Lamentations Chapter 2 on LDS.org
Can anyone link to it?
Green Rose wrote: September 4th, 2019, 2:48 pm
Elizabeth wrote: September 4th, 2019, 3:33 am Where is the above to be found in the Scriptures?
Elizabeth, this is Lamentations chapter 2.
Girlfriend, it’s in the Old Testament. Open yo scriptures.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Elizabeth »

Yes, I could do so, but why is it not on LDS.org?

Links are needed when passing on to others.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Elizabeth wrote: September 4th, 2019, 10:02 pm Yes, I could do so, but why is it not on LDS.org?

Links are needed when passing on to others.
Html is the language written on lds.org, and is the standard to shoot for, but ORM type factors should be considered. Things like newbie ness of the poster, the obscurity of the passage. Mostly the burden logically falls on the poster, being one, whereas readers are many. Prolly a good criteria to expect frequent posters to set the example as their post count goes up, call it rank, or whatever. Kinda hate the little icons used on other forums, and hope others will strive to post in the image of said standard, just because it’s the right thing to do. Others can disagree, and most will. 8-)

Then too posting shouldn’t be burdensome, and I don’t mind selecting and searching tidbits of text.

Phase lock loop , but not continental drift. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :geek:

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Elizabeth
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by Elizabeth »

Sorry, I do not understand :(
Not so long ago one could easily find Scriptures on LDS.org
This was important so as to be able to refer others to the link when discussing the Scripture.
The current situation is difficult to say the least. Why this change has occurred is a puzzlement.

gangbusters
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by gangbusters »

Elizabeth wrote: September 5th, 2019, 4:56 am Sorry, I do not understand :(
Not so long ago one could easily find Scriptures on LDS.org
This was important so as to be able to refer others to the link when discussing the Scripture.
The current situation is difficult to say the least. Why this change has occurred is a puzzlement.
Do you have the LDS scriptures app on your phone? Alternatively, if you’re on a desktop computer, just go to the scriptures tab.

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RocknRoll
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Re: Its time this is revealed.

Post by RocknRoll »

Elizabeth wrote: September 5th, 2019, 4:56 am Sorry, I do not understand :(
Not so long ago one could easily find Scriptures on LDS.org
This was important so as to be able to refer others to the link when discussing the Scripture.
The current situation is difficult to say the least. Why this change has occurred is a puzzlement.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 2?lang=eng

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