LDS Freedom Forum

justme wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 5:35 pm

justme wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 3:42 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Either same-sex marriage, and same-sex sexual activity is a sin, or it's not. If it's a sinful activity, then it is the obligation of the church to teach this. Otherwise, they are leading the youth into the devil's clutches. If it's NOT a sin, then we need to have a revelation from God to the First Presidency and Q12 that what has been taught in the past is incorrect. We need to open the doors of the sealing rooms to homosexual marriages, or we need to teach the youth that homosexual sexual activity is sinful. This is a two-way doctrine. I don't see any gray area.

I don't understand your final question -- how did what sneak into our culture?

Elitism: on an institutional and eternal level.

I grew up as a youth in the church thinking very strongly that I simply would never make the celestial kingdom. That only a very few around me would like the stake patriarch and his wife, maybe one or two more. I had a testimony of the gospel but not of me. I finally realized years later as a missionary that it the devil lying in my ears that the gospel was only meant for a few. I have now adopted a very universal view of the gospel. But there are still people outright teaching the elitist view. You can find quotes from authorities that the majority of people will go to the telestial kingdom (thus hell) and others speculating 10 percent or less in the celestial kingdom. Many insist that the phrase a third part means 33 percent (hint: it doesn't). We are very elitist in our culture and in our interpretation of scriptures and doctrine. How do we comfort are youth that are actively discarded by their church leaders and teachers?

I agree, Lizzy, that somethings are sins. But everylast single one of us besides the savior are sinners. Why do we pick and choose which sins are allowed for membership?

I agree with some of these points. I have no problem accepting people at church and letting all worship with me (including racists and the whatnot). I'm okay teaching Grace for all and Resurrection for all who keep their first estate. What I'm not okay with is softening the definition of a sin in order to make everyone feel good.

Also, just because there's a hierarchy, doesn't make it elitist. There is a hierarchy in heaven and I'm okay with not making it to the top. I think Satan was the one who had a problem accepting that.

Maybe it is just a deeply entrenched character flaw in me but I bristle at the very notion of a hierarchy in any form. This includes church structure and career. I simply do not care for the concept of authority, leadership, or hierarchy. I hope the next life is different. My personal view of the Plan as taught in DC 76 is different.

justme wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 3:42 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 1:11 pm

justme wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 12:27 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 9:20 am

Mormons Building Bridges has a post with the idea that a Primary teacher can make Froot Loop necklaces with her class, while teaching them about Pride, and calling them Pride necklaces. Just sick.

Why can a Tabernacle Choir singer, a Salt Lake Temple ordinance worker, bishops, YM and YW leaders, and Primary teachers (among others) openly endorse gay marriage, and total inclusion of all LGBTQ in the church (even those acting on it) and not be facing any church discipline? They post under their own names. They are very open and aboveboard about what they are doing. They keep their temple recommends, while a minor word of wisdom infraction will get your recommend snatched away.

But what about when a YW leader in a lesson on the proclamation have girls crying that they don't belong in this church. It is sad when our youth are being weeded out of the church in their youth. I guess we need to get used to the idea of a small church, kindof like the idea that only a few, single digit percentages, will go to the celestial kingdom. How did this sneak into our culture?

Either same-sex marriage, and same-sex sexual activity is a sin, or it's not. If it's a sinful activity, then it is the obligation of the church to teach this. Otherwise, they are leading the youth into the devil's clutches. If it's NOT a sin, then we need to have a revelation from God to the First Presidency and Q12 that what has been taught in the past is incorrect. We need to open the doors of the sealing rooms to homosexual marriages, or we need to teach the youth that homosexual sexual activity is sinful. This is a two-way doctrine. I don't see any gray area.

I don't understand your final question -- how did what sneak into our culture?

Elitism: on an institutional and eternal level.

I grew up as a youth in the church thinking very strongly that I simply would never make the celestial kingdom. That only a very few around me would like the stake patriarch and his wife, maybe one or two more. I had a testimony of the gospel but not of me. I finally realized years later as a missionary that it the devil lying in my ears that the gospel was only meant for a few. I have now adopted a very universal view of the gospel. But there are still people outright teaching the elitist view. You can find quotes from authorities that the majority of people will go to the telestial kingdom (thus hell) and others speculating 10 percent or less in the celestial kingdom. Many insist that the phrase a third part means 33 percent (hint: it doesn't). We are very elitist in our culture and in our interpretation of scriptures and doctrine. How do we comfort are youth that are actively discarded by their church leaders and teachers?

I agree, Lizzy, that somethings are sins. But everylast single one of us besides the savior are sinners. Why do we pick and choose which sins are allowed for membership?

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 12:11 pm

ori wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 9:03 am

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑August 26th, 2019, 4:10 am The reason for what is happening as far as the "trajectory" that we are on was given by Edgar Casey. He said that all the most vial souls would be born just before the coming of Christ.

“Vial souls”? Are they test tube babies then?

Gee, I make one mistake in 287 post and someone has to be sure to call me on it, lol. It was 4:10 am. I'm surprised I did not make a half dozen more mistakes. Anyway, who knows, maybe God does create souls in test tubes. At least the most vile anyway.

OCDMOM wrote: ↑August 27th, 2019, 8:04 pm Taylor Swift is asking people to sign a petition that it is illegal to discriminate against people with different sexual preferences. She called out Trump about it. That could mean trouble for the Church,