Church says Vaping is "not okay"

[Fiannan]

It's sad that the Brethren had to actually come out and specifically tell the membership that vaping is stupid and wrong. Anyone with more than two working brain cells would already know that. DOH!

Some people have to be commanded in all things. Just like if President Nelson told everyone they need to find time to exercise at least 3 hours per week the jogging trails and bike paths in high-density LDS areas would be filled.

[thestock]

The WOW was nothing new even at the time it was given. All of the WOW's prohibitions were already being considered as possible health issues back in the early 1800's by others outside the church. There is nothing amazing/miraculous about it. Maybe if boil your water before drinking or avoid excess sugar had been included in the WOW then it would've been something amazing/miraculous. At least those weren't really being discussed/considered at the time.

This is true. Additionally, Joseph Smith was an occasional imbiber of wine and smoker of cigars. When the contemporary health craze that Mindfields is talking about swept through Kirtland, many of the Saints became desirous for some sort of revelation from the Lord about this subject. From what I gather, Joseph was hesitant to issue such a revelation because he did not want to place restrictions but eventually he caved and gave them what they wanted.....although it is interesting to note he placed "not by commandment".

Little good that did. In true Pharisaical fashion, we've gone ahead and built up huge commandments and restrictions that are so far removed from the Spirit of this law that it is a joke.

[thestock]

Some people have to be commanded in all things. Just like if President Nelson told everyone they need to find time to exercise at least 3 hours per week the jogging trails and bike paths in high-density LDS areas would be filled.

This quote would look appropriate in the thread about cults.

[inho]

I myself would never vape. However, if there is no tobacco in the vape liquid, I would compare it to tobacco free hookah flavor. I do not recall any statements against hookah. I believe it is because members are wise enough and don't need to be commanded in everything. Just like we don't have a prohibition against caffeine - only coffee. Yet the wise members understand that energy drinks may be worse than coffee.

[Mindfields]

The WOW evolved into what it is today. When It first came out the members didn't see it as a commandment but as a recommendation only. Many used the prohibited stuff for decades before the church finally decided to include its adherence as a temple recommend question. Why is it that some need to double down on anything God commands or even suggests? Sounds Pharisaical to me. And think of all the damage to those who didn't "follow" the WOW. Many were shamed and became inactive or just plain left the church. All because of the philosophies of men mixed with scripture.

Appearance is everything in the church.

"[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [10] And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: [11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Jesus

"…the worst sinners, according to Jesus, are not the harlots and publicans, but the religious leaders with their insistence on proper dress and grooming, their careful observance of all the rules, their precious concern for status-symbols, their strict legality, their pious patriotism. Longhairs, beards, and necklaces, LSD and rock, Big Sur and Woodstock, come and go, but Babylon is always there: rich, respectable, immovable… We want to be vindicated in our position and to know that the world is on our side as we all join in a chorus of righteous denunciation; the haircut becomes the test of virtue in a world where Satan deceives and rules by appearances." Hugh Nibley

[Sunain]

Very disappointing seeing so many people here ripping on the Word of Wisdom. It is for the health benefit of the saints. There is nothing in the current Word of Wisdom that should be debated. More needs to be specifically listed as this whole youth vaping nonsense is really stupid. The WoW is one of those higher laws that we have been given, yet so many seem to falter on. The saints can't seem to live this, how will we ever get higher laws yet to be revealed.

Caffeine addiction is real and is one of the hardest substances to break the addiction from.

Vaping = Smoking.
Green Tea = contains caffeine (2% to 4%).
Energy Drinks = Way too much caffeine. Should be specifically listed in the WoW but the General Authorities are behind the times.
Soda with added caffeine = Way too much caffeine. Should be specifically listed in the WoW but the General Authorities are behind the times

[oneClimbs]

What if it is not about health?

[thestock]

Very disappointing seeing so many people here ripping on the Word of Wisdom. It is for the health benefit of the saints. There is nothing in the current Word of Wisdom that should be debated. More needs to be specifically listed as this whole youth vaping nonsense is really stupid. The WoW is one of those higher laws that we have been given, yet so many seem to falter on. The saints can't seem to live this, how will we ever get higher laws yet to be revealed.

Caffeine addiction is real and is one of the hardest substances to break the addiction from.

Vaping = Smoking.
Green Tea = contains caffeine (2% to 4%).
Energy Drinks = Way too much caffeine. Should be specifically listed in the WoW but the General Authorities are behind the times.
Soda with added caffeine = Way too much caffeine. Should be specifically listed in the WoW but the General Authorities are behind the times

The Church should teach correct principles and let ADULTS govern themselves. How hard is this to comprehend? Or perhaps you really like when the Savior commands us to be as little children? That's basically all the current WoW is good for......making adults act like little children having to tell an "authority" to not worry, we dont touch any of that evil stuff like green tea!

[inho]

What if it is not about health?

Most of the associated blessings are not about health.

[oneClimbs]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

[thestock]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

The WoW itself disagrees. Of the promises made, health is mentioned 3 times and revelation 1 time. Revelation is the promise in verse 19, the other parts of the word of wisdom are all about health.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

[inho]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

The WoW itself disagrees. Of the promises made, health is mentioned 3 times and revelation 1 time. Revelation is the promise in verse 19, the other parts of the word of wisdom are all about health.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

I don't think verse 21 is about health. It wasn't about healthy living with the children of Israel.

[oneClimbs]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

The WoW itself disagrees. Of the promises made, health is mentioned 3 times and revelation 1 time. Revelation is the promise in verse 19, the other parts of the word of wisdom are all about health.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

No doubt that it mentions "temporal salvation" of the saints. But these other terms, "health in their navel and marrow to their bones" and "run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint" are you sure that those are about literal marrow and bones or actual running?

[thestock]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

The WoW itself disagrees. Of the promises made, health is mentioned 3 times and revelation 1 time. Revelation is the promise in verse 19, the other parts of the word of wisdom are all about health.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

No doubt that it mentions "temporal salvation" of the saints. But these other terms, "health in their navel and marrow to their bones" and "run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint" are you sure that those are about literal marrow and bones or actual running?

What else could they be? They are clearly meant as a statement on health.

[thestock]

This is one of my favorite quotes about the subject:

The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation [...] Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. [...] It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. When your body begins to deteriorate, the patterns of revelation will be augmented and magnified.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-p ... character/

The WoW itself disagrees. Of the promises made, health is mentioned 3 times and revelation 1 time. Revelation is the promise in verse 19, the other parts of the word of wisdom are all about health.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

I don't think verse 21 is about health. It wasn't about healthy living with the children of Israel.

I read it clearly to be about health. How else but lung cancer and alcoholism does the destroyer sweep across the people of our nation in the modern era? Unless Joseph Smith meant that by not drinking we wont drive drunk and die in a car accident......

[Fiannan]

What if it is not about health?

Most of the associated blessings are not about health.

I agree in many aspects to this. For instance, the more physically fit we are the more open to the spirit we become. Says so in the WofW. And only lately has modern neurological studies demonstrated that exercise enhances both cognitive abilities as well as preserving the brain into old age.

[oneClimbs]

What else could they be? They are clearly meant as a statement on health.

On one level.

[Believing Joseph]

Very disappointing seeing so many people here ripping on the Word of Wisdom. It is for the health benefit of the saints. There is nothing in the current Word of Wisdom that should be debated.

The fact that we have a concept of 'the current Word of Wisdom' is a sign that something has gone wrong in the Church. The Word of Wisdom is a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith in February of 1833. It says what it says and it doesn't say what it doesn't say. All this talk about "will they change the Word of Wisdom?" and how X or Y "should be specifically listed in the WoW but the General Authorities are behind the times" is nonsense.

The General Authorities didn't write the Word of Wisdom, they don't get to rewrite it, and controversies over their changing interpretation of it wouldn't cause nearly so much trouble among Mormons if the phrase "not by commandment or constraint" was still taken seriously - or in other words, if the WoW was still regarded as counsel rather than a worthiness test, then it wouldn't be a big deal if different General Authorities had different opinions as to whether drinking Coca Cola or eating rum cake was a good idea or not.

Does that mean that the scriptures have nothing to say about substance dependency in general? Hardly. There are multiple passages in the New Testament where the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John warn that those who practice "pharmakeia" will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This Greek word is translated as "sorcery" or "witchcraft" in the King James Bible, but it's original meaning was drug use. The association with the dark arts is very ancient and stems from the early Jews' and Christians' (correct) understanding that tampering with people's agency using drugs is pleasing to the Devil.

[iWriteStuff]

This is purely anecdotal, but here we go:

In my last ward, the entire Priest's quorum (with one exception) was caught skipping class and vaping during Sunday School. The bishop had no idea what to do, so he asked the Stake President. Back came the answer: none of them could bless the sacrament for a period of months. So we had YM advisors blessing it all during that time. Eventually, there was a special Youth meeting to clear the air about vaping and show them where the line is on the matter.

I'm not sure if it helped anything, honestly. The next bishop that came in referred to the entire quorum as "lost" and told me most likely only the one boy out of six would serve a mission. Say what you will about it, but it certainly had an impact on those boys' lives.

[buffalo_girl]

The next bishop that came in referred to the entire quorum as "lost"

Lost!!! Really?

Anyone happen to read excerpts from James E. Talmage's college journal in which he documented his 'practical experiments' with cannabis indica?

http://signaturebookslibrary.org/essent ... almage-03/

Maybe we all need to lighten up a little. Talmage seems to have overcome his late-20's touch with being "lost" while attending John Hopkins University.

You are talking about 12-14 year olds, for crying out loud! Kids do stupid stuff.

Perhaps if they had embarked upon a practical experiment and kept journals they would have been considered future scientists.

As a fellow BYU Archivist commented when the journal was being transcribed, "It's good to know there's more than one way to get a vision!"

And you know what, NOT ONE of us BYU students working in archives - who heard the student transcribing the journals read that entry on that one occasion - fell away from the Church or justified any of our individual foibles - past or present - because of these journal entries by a highly respected scholar and Church Authority.

By the way, what exactly were those Aaronic Priesthood holders 'vaping'?

[EmmaLee]

Minor point, but I thought priest quorums were comprised of 16-17 year olds.

[buffalo_girl]

OK! Sixteen through 17-year olds. I thought I read they weren't allowed to pass the Sacrament for a month.

Well...16 & 17-year olds can make dumb decisions, too. I'm not sure deciding their lives are "lost" over something dumb is quite in the Spirit of Christ's love for each of us.

[mahalanobis]

Is vaping something the youth are actually challenged with?

I don't think people wake up one day and decide to vape. The spike in vaping is caused by the smokers transitioning to a less-detrimental alternative. Many of them will eventually quit altogether. All the anti-vaping propaganda is being pushed by the tobacco companies.

[EmmaLee]

OK! Sixteen through 17-year olds. I thought I read they weren't allowed to pass the Sacrament for a month.

Well...16 & 17-year olds can make dumb decisions, too. I'm not sure deciding their lives are "lost" over something dumb is quite in the Spirit of Christ's love for each of us.

I think he said 'bless' the sacrament, a priest's duty. But I agree - calling them "lost" over vaping (which is stupid) is crazy.

[iWriteStuff]

OK! Sixteen through 17-year olds. I thought I read they weren't allowed to pass the Sacrament for a month.

Well...16 & 17-year olds can make dumb decisions, too. I'm not sure deciding their lives are "lost" over something dumb is quite in the Spirit of Christ's love for each of us.

I think he said 'bless' the sacrament, a priest's duty. But I agree - calling them "lost" over vaping (which is stupid) is crazy.

Well the problem went a bit deeper than vaping. And yes, I said bless the sacrament - although there were some Teachers Quorum members involved as well, the ring leader was the Bishop's Assistant.

Anywho, the deeper matter was that despite getting caught, they formed a conspiracy to deny and lie about the vaping. They decided to spin it as a "rumor" that Br. IWS and the YM President had started because we didn't like them, which couldn't be further from the truth. Problem came when one of them had a crisis of conscience and broke the pact, confessing to the bishop and telling him of the conspiracy to lie and cover it up. Then the consequences came down fast and heavy.

Granted, the subsequent bishop had a much more "no nonsense" and "toe the line" approach. I think he was tired of seeing our youth fail - going out on missions only to come back weeks or days later, vaping in closets/attics/scout trailers during church, basically losing their testimonies and then taking other youth out of the church with them.... That's a hard gig. And vaping played a pretty strong part of it. It was the "cool/rebellious" thing to do. And read some studies on it sometime. It's not all harmless laughs and giggles. Some of that stuff is pretty harsh on the system.