Members of the church shoving dollar bills into drag queens bra last night

[justme]

Then tell the names and wards so this can be reported and dealt with.

And if you need any guidance on how such reporting and record keeping should be done the East German Secret Police perfected the technique during the cold war and may have manuals or records to learn from.

What should they do? If some of you know members are doing something you think immoral, then tell church leaders instead of complaining about how awful they are, do something. Otherwise stop worrying about what others are doing and worry about yourself.

I would take your option starting with "otherwise stop..."

[Elizabeth]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

[Michael Sherwin]

Edgar Casey known as the sleeping prophet prophesied that just before the end all the most vile souls would incarnate.

[Rwp]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

[Davka]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

You did nothing wrong. It’s not your job to police the church.

I took a look at that Instagram account and I actually feel ill. The post from November 19 last year with him dressed as Eve...oh my goodness, so blasphemous.

[Chip]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

How about reporting them, only to realize that not only will nothing will be done about it, but now you are the "bad guy" for daring to bring up their involvement, as if they did something wrong. That's what I think would happen. You would be despised while the local leaders would stand aside, quietly, not wanting to rock the boat by taking a firm position, having gotten no definitive direction from the top of the church leadership. Cleave to Christ. The arm of flesh hangs down limp.

[Rwp]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

How about reporting them, only to realize that not only will nothing will be done about it, but now you are the "bad guy" for daring to bring up their involvement, as if they did something wrong. That's what I think would happen. You would be despised while the local leaders would stand aside, quietly, not wanting to rock the boat by taking a firm position, having gotten no definitive direction from the top of the church leadership. Cleave to Christ. The arm of flesh hangs down limp.

Thank you! That's a big part of where the futility of the situation comes into my mind.

[Rwp]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

You did nothing wrong. It’s not your job to police the church.

I took a look at that Instagram account and I actually feel ill. The post from November 19 last year with him dressed as Eve...oh my goodness, so blasphemous.

I agree, his page was really depressing and disgusting. I mostly just feel bad for all these women thinking they are making a "bridge" by participating.

In the past 4 years 3 of my siblings left the church in tandem. My oldest sister (still an active member at the time) decided my mom's traditional ideas were too extreme to reach my siblings so my sister took it upon herself to be a "bridge". She expressed this plan to me and I didn't feel comfortable with it. A bridge means compromise and I don't feel I can compromise my beliefs. It just goes against everything I feel is right. I expressed that feeling and she scoffed. How closed minded of me! So she reached across the water. Compromised a lot. The thing is, certain members of the church keep talking about "building bridges" but the people on the other side aren't reaching out. They don't.want.a.bridge. They want us to change all for them. And so instead of tirelessly reaching out to no avail my sister fell in and swam ashore on the other side. Now she hates the church.

[Blessourlove]

I’m really sorry! I am only 40, but I don’t know much about the social media world or why anyone would even follow an “influencer” or blogger. (I also don’t know what perfectly posh makeup is so maybe I just live in a a cave???). I feel so so much for the younger generation of sisters in my ward. So many of them have come to the conclusion that their self worth and identity are tied to social media/Pinterest etc. What a confusing thing when these are the kinds of women they look up to!

[buffalo_girl]

Took a look at his facebook page.

Who would want to wear makeup like that, anyway?!

[EmmaLee]

My oldest sister (still an active member at the time) decided my mom's traditional ideas were too extreme to reach my siblings so my sister took it upon herself to be a "bridge". She expressed this plan to me and I didn't feel comfortable with it. A bridge means compromise and I don't feel I can compromise my beliefs. It just goes against everything I feel is right. I expressed that feeling and she scoffed. How closed minded of me! So she reached across the water. Compromised a lot. The thing is, certain members of the church keep talking about "building bridges" but the people on the other side aren't reaching out. They don't.want.a.bridge. They want us to change all for them. And so instead of tirelessly reaching out to no avail my sister fell in and swam ashore on the other side. Now she hates the church.

Ah yes, "building bridges" - that hip phrase is all the rage and quite the fad these days. I agree with what you say about them, Rwp, you are exactly right - they only ever go one way in today's Satan-led, Babylonian world. I wonder if your sister who now hates the Church (and so many others like her) got the 'bridge' idea from -

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... -rome.html

https://latterdaychiasmus.com/2018/07/1 ... n-address/

https://www.azfamily.com/news/president ... ba659.html

The exact same "building bridges" story you told about one of your sisters, I could tell about one of my own sisters - they are identical. She has also taught her adult children this - they are now lost - and they, in turn, have taught their young children the same, who are also following suit - 3 generations now lost from the gospel of Jesus Christ thanks to building bridges to Satan. It is heartbreaking.

[passionflower]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

I have tried this route with the naive assumption that I was truly helping someone. Not so. Apparently for a bishop to "take action" the sin has to be very very serious (like an orgy was obviously going on), and even if you showed this video to the bishop of half the women in attendance, he probably won't even call any of the sisters into his office.

This behaviour is wrong. Unfortunately, that's what is so "fun" about it.

[Davka]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

You did nothing wrong. It’s not your job to police the church.

I took a look at that Instagram account and I actually feel ill. The post from November 19 last year with him dressed as Eve...oh my goodness, so blasphemous.

I agree, his page was really depressing and disgusting. I mostly just feel bad for all these women thinking they are making a "bridge" by participating.

In the past 4 years 3 of my siblings left the church in tandem. My oldest sister (still an active member at the time) decided my mom's traditional ideas were too extreme to reach my siblings so my sister took it upon herself to be a "bridge". She expressed this plan to me and I didn't feel comfortable with it. A bridge means compromise and I don't feel I can compromise my beliefs. It just goes against everything I feel is right. I expressed that feeling and she scoffed. How closed minded of me! So she reached across the water. Compromised a lot. The thing is, certain members of the church keep talking about "building bridges" but the people on the other side aren't reaching out. They don't.want.a.bridge. They want us to change all for them. And so instead of tirelessly reaching out to no avail my sister fell in and swam ashore on the other side. Now she hates the church.

I am so sorry to hear about your siblings. I am sure that has been painful to watch. I think I you are absolutely right about the other side not wanting to compromise...it’s all or nothing in their mind. They have proven this time and time again as they get what they ask for (equal legal rights, ability to marry) but they keep wanting more (not just tolerance from everyone, but the expectation that everyone fly a rainbow flag outside their home in celebration of their sinful lifestyle).

I can foresee no other future for those of us who refuse to cave to the pressure than one of persecution and exclusion from society. Like you, I am seriously considering homeschool, and have essentially accepted that it will be part of our family’s future, even if I haven’t made the plunge yet. In the meantime, I just keep reiterating messages about our values and truth to my young children hoping to preempt or intercept the world’s messages they will inevitably be confronted or even inundated with.

[jmack]

When I tell my sons, who are Church leaders, matters such as these posted on this forum, they say give them the names and wards so they can initiate action, otherwise we can only presume such reports are false.

Well, not sure I feel comfortable doing that. It feels akin to doxing. I genuinely feel these women didn't see what they participated in as wrong. My original intent was to share how times have changed and views of morality have changed drastically even within those who are church members and have a very large voice to many who are not members. I don't really think church discipline would do much since its like you said: unless their is evidence, it didn't happen. Though I did share the drag queens Instagram handle sistermollymormon for anyone who wishes to look that up and he shared plenty of content posted by these women who were in attendance.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered sharing if I wasn't willing to follow through on trying to get them into their bishops office for some discipline?

Don't feel bad, you have plenty of support from people here who love this kind of crap about Mormons behaving badly. But did you do anything that might help or just reinforce negative stereotypes posters love? I think what you shared should be made known to the Bishop and the Stake Pres. because they can't do anything if they aren't aware. Send them the link and then it's out of your hands. They aren't going to hold a court they'll talk to them. And maybe some will realize it's not something a member should be celebrating. And if they are defensive then at least the leaders know they might not be good role models. But if you only complain about the members here then it's just a form of gossip. For what it's worth anyway.

[jmack]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

[Davka]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

Wouldn’t speaking to someone personally if you have concerns rather than turning them in to church leaders be more effective?

[Rwp]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

I appreciate your perspective and am grateful for the call to action. While I know almost all of them through having "followed" them in the past, I'm not going to try to reach out to over 40 women's bishops! That feels like kind of an impossible feat. I know 2 personally. One is in my stake, the other lives here in town. Both are very liberal and already angry at the church and pro LGBTQ+. I'm genuinely asking, how will they receive a conversation with a bishop because someone tattled? They already have one foot out the door. Would this effectively bring them back or make them leave altogether? Or does talking to them individually make more sense? We're not even close. At least one of them is automatically defensive and a little angry at the church... What do I honestly do? My anxiety is all sorts of firing off right now

[Davka]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

I appreciate your perspective and am grateful for the call to action. While I know almost all of them through having "followed" them in the past, I'm not going to try to reach out to over 40 women's bishops! That feels like kind of an impossible feat. I know 2 personally. One is in my stake, the other lives here in town. Both are very liberal and already angry at the church and pro LGBTQ+. I'm genuinely asking, how will they receive a conversation with a bishop because someone tattled? They already have one foot out the door. Would this effectively bring them back or make them leave altogether? Or does talking to them individually make more sense? We're not even close. At least one of them is automatically defensive and a little angry at the church... What do I honestly do? My anxiety is all sorts of firing off right now

You could write something in “open letter” format...addressing the group collectively, expressing your concerns and perspective and email it to them. You could mention that you are writing the letter to them rather than “turning them in” because your purpose isn’t to get them in trouble but to help them see the implications of their actions not just for them personally but for the church and community as a whole. If it touches 1 out of 40, it would be a success, especially since we are talking about influencers.

The flip side is that one of those influencers could turn it into a P.R. example of the lack of “tolerance” from mainstream members.

If you can’t tell, I’m totally just throwing out ideas and thinking out loud about ways to deal with the situation.

[EmmaLee]

While I know almost all of them through having "followed" them in the past, I'm not going to try to reach out to over 40 women's bishops! That feels like kind of an impossible feat. I know 2 personally. One is in my stake, the other lives here in town. Both are very liberal and already angry at the church and pro LGBTQ+. I'm genuinely asking, how will they receive a conversation with a bishop because someone tattled? They already have one foot out the door. Would this effectively bring them back or make them leave altogether? Or does talking to them individually make more sense? We're not even close. At least one of them is automatically defensive and a little angry at the church... What do I honestly do? My anxiety is all sorts of firing off right now

Or you could be in my situation, where the types of women you describe are married to our ward leadership (Bishopric members), and their husbands are fully aware and supportive of their wives behavior/actions.

[Elizabeth]

Anyone facing such situations can remain anonymous and still have the matters attended to. Private message me with the names, details of behaviour, and ward and I will pass on to Leaders who will deal with the situations. For the sake of all members and potential members and the future of the Church such matters must be corrected.

[jmack]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

I appreciate your perspective and am grateful for the call to action. While I know almost all of them through having "followed" them in the past, I'm not going to try to reach out to over 40 women's bishops! That feels like kind of an impossible feat. I know 2 personally. One is in my stake, the other lives here in town. Both are very liberal and already angry at the church and pro LGBTQ+. I'm genuinely asking, how will they receive a conversation with a bishop because someone tattled? They already have one foot out the door. Would this effectively bring them back or make them leave altogether? Or does talking to them individually make more sense? We're not even close. At least one of them is automatically defensive and a little angry at the church... What do I honestly do? My anxiety is all sorts of firing off right now

You said the main influencer is in your stake and it was her instagram then just her. I think the Stake President should be made aware. If you want to talk to her in person, great. But I think it needs to be on the radar of Church leaders and it won't be unless someone tells them. If it's ignored then other sisters will think it's just fine and they are the ones who need to get with the times. I'm sure you aren't the only one upset by it.

[justme]

You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

I appreciate your perspective and am grateful for the call to action. While I know almost all of them through having "followed" them in the past, I'm not going to try to reach out to over 40 women's bishops! That feels like kind of an impossible feat. I know 2 personally. One is in my stake, the other lives here in town. Both are very liberal and already angry at the church and pro LGBTQ+. I'm genuinely asking, how will they receive a conversation with a bishop because someone tattled? They already have one foot out the door. Would this effectively bring them back or make them leave altogether? Or does talking to them individually make more sense? We're not even close. At least one of them is automatically defensive and a little angry at the church... What do I honestly do? My anxiety is all sorts of firing off right now

You said the main influencer is in your stake and it was her instagram then just her. I think the Stake President should be made aware. If you want to talk to her in person, great. But I think it needs to be on the radar of Church leaders and it won't be unless someone tells them. If it's ignored then other sisters will think it's just fine and they are the ones who need to get with the times. I'm sure you aren't the only one upset by it.

Interesting view of life. Is that really your take on church culture?

[buffalo_girl]

Amazing! When I lived in a small - fairly isolated - Utah community in Salt Lake Valley, a few Sisters with young children in our Ward organized a bi-weekly potluck to be held in each other's homes. It was jokingly referred to as "the depressed housewives potluck". It was simply a potluck with a chance for young children to play together and for well-educated, 'stay-at-home' women to share. It was held as a noon luncheon.

It had a very, very short run. The Bishop put a stop to it after the second such event.

I suspect it was the 'name' that did it. Good Latter-day Saint women shouldn't be in need of such foolishness. They should be grateful and dedicated to making a happy home for their husbands and children.

Well, that was a little over 40-years ago. Things change, don't they?

I have to think about what happened to Lot's wife when the Lord's messengers had to drag (no pun intended) Lot and his family out of Sodom. It was as though they were in a state of hypnosis. They couldn't give it up! Seems Satanic to me.

Go read Genesis 19 and familiarize yourselves with how this kind of behavior corrodes and corrupts every human relationship - including the heterosexual relationship and that of parent and child.

[Lizzy60]

About 20 years ago my ward started a book club. One sister recommended an Anne Perry mystery novel. During the discussion, it was mentioned that the murderess had sexual feelings for the women she was nursing, decided the women must be evil, and killed them for their own good. It was so subtlety handled in the book, some of the ladies in my ward disagreed with the reason for the murders.

Well, someone was offended necause of the possible motivation of the murderer, tattled, and the book club was commanded to be discontinued by the Stake President. Oh my, how far we have come.

[I AM]

scary !