LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **July 24th, 2019, 6:40 pm**

jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:15 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:46 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Some of you, including church leaders, are anti-scriptural when you teach that our impure thoughts are NOT sinful. It's not us accusing them, it's us teaching what the scriptures teach. Thou shalt not covet. To lust after a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.
Having sexhal thoughts is not impure, they are natural urges given by God. If you aren't gay, I don't think you can judge someone who is and claim their sexual attracton is made up. You will be judged by the standard you use to judge others, just remember that.

There is a difference in having a though come into your head, and keeping that thought in your head. All are subject to random thoughts also known as temptations. When one dwells on those thoughts i.e. entertains them, then it becomes covetousness or lust/sin.

Posted: **July 24th, 2019, 6:40 pm**

jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:15 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:46 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Some of you, including church leaders, are anti-scriptural when you teach that our impure thoughts are NOT sinful. It's not us accusing them, it's us teaching what the scriptures teach. Thou shalt not covet. To lust after a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.
Having sexhal thoughts is not impure, they are natural urges given by God. If you aren't gay, I don't think you can judge someone who is and claim their sexual attracton is made up. You will be judged by the standard you use to judge others, just remember that.

Wrong again. I never said anyone's sexual attraction was made up. I even believe some people are "born gay." But I don't believe God made them that way, and I don't believe that having sexual thoughts about improper sexual encounters (adultery, pedophilia, homosexuality) are natural urges given by God. These thoughts are a PERVERSION of righteous sexuality, given to us by Satan and his demons.

You accused someone of listening to Satan, so you obviously believe that Satan influences people. Weeeellllllll, that's who is putting improper, indecent, and same-sex sexual thoughts into people's heads. Not God.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 8:38 am**

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:40 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:15 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:46 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Some of you, including church leaders, are anti-scriptural when you teach that our impure thoughts are NOT sinful. It's not us accusing them, it's us teaching what the scriptures teach. Thou shalt not covet. To lust after a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.
Having sexhal thoughts is not impure, they are natural urges given by God. If you aren't gay, I don't think you can judge someone who is and claim their sexual attracton is made up. You will be judged by the standard you use to judge others, just remember that.
Wrong again. I never said anyone's sexual attraction was made up. I even believe some people are "born gay." But I don't believe God made them that way, and I don't believe that having sexual thoughts about improper sexual encounters (adultery, pedophilia, homosexuality) are natural urges given by God. These thoughts are a PERVERSION of righteous sexuality, given to us by Satan and his demons.

You accused someone of listening to Satan, so you obviously believe that Satan influences people. Weeeellllllll, that's who is putting improper, indecent, and same-sex sexual thoughts into people's heads. Not God.

I don't think you're clear on your own position. You can't say they're born gay and also that they sin when they feel attraction for the same sex. That would mean God set them up to sin every time their body feels what it's supposed to. I don't think you've thought this out much. Yea, Satan influences us and he puts thoughts in our mind, but he's not responsible for our physical urges we're hardwired to have, he just takes advantage of them, and then what we do next is what may cause us to sin. That's why the church leaders stopped condemning the ssa urge, because they started to actually think about it.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 9:08 am**

because they started to actually think about it.

Are you saying Church leaders in the past never thought about it? Never contemplated the question or asked for the Lords directions?

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 9:21 am**

God set them up to sin every time their body feels what it's supposed to

And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Ether 12:27

I believe the wide acceptance of homosexuality, is the crimson red pill of who has control of our society.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 9:24 am**

pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑July 25th, 2019, 9:08 am
because they started to actually think about it.
Are you saying Church leaders in the past never thought about it? Never contemplated the question or asked for the Lords directions?

How could you know if they did or did not? Have they said as much?

Here is one thing they have said recently...

"While same-sex attraction is not a sin, it can be a challenge. While one may not have chosen to have these feelings, he or she can commit to keep God’s commandments. The parent of a child who experiences same-sex attraction or identifies as gay should choose to love and embrace that child. As a community of Church members, we should choose to create a welcoming community."

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 9:29 am**

jmack wrote: ↑July 25th, 2019, 8:38 am
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:40 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:15 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Some of you, including church leaders, are anti-scriptural when you teach that our impure thoughts are NOT sinful. It's not us accusing them, it's us teaching what the scriptures teach. Thou shalt not covet. To lust after a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.
Having sexhal thoughts is not impure, they are natural urges given by God. If you aren't gay, I don't think you can judge someone who is and claim their sexual attracton is made up. You will be judged by the standard you use to judge others, just remember that.
Wrong again. I never said anyone's sexual attraction was made up. I even believe some people are "born gay." But I don't believe God made them that way, and I don't believe that having sexual thoughts about improper sexual encounters (adultery, pedophilia, homosexuality) are natural urges given by God. These thoughts are a PERVERSION of righteous sexuality, given to us by Satan and his demons.

You accused someone of listening to Satan, so you obviously believe that Satan influences people. Weeeellllllll, that's who is putting improper, indecent, and same-sex sexual thoughts into people's heads. Not God.
I don't think you're clear on your own position. You can't say they're born gay and also that they sin when they feel attraction for the same sex. That would mean God set them up to sin every time their body feels what it's supposed to. I don't think you've thought this out much. Yea, Satan influences us and he puts thoughts in our mind, but he's not responsible for our physical urges we're hardwired to have, he just takes advantage of them, and then what we do next is what may cause us to sin. That's why the church leaders stopped condemning the ssa urge, because they started to actually think about it.

There is only One person who was born "perfect" into this mortal existence. All the rest of us brought our fallen nature, our natural man, our desire for sin, and some more than others. God created our spirits eons ago, and then we began using our agency to develop character traits and desires, both righteous and evil. Some of God's spirit children desired evil so much that they followed Lucifer and gave up the opportunity for Earth life. Others chose to come to Earth, but their "father" is the devil (see John 10), and the devil has planted them here as tares among the wheat. Others have Christ as their father, and they are the wheat He has sown here on Earth. If a person brought ssa here with them, this earth probation is a time for them to overcome it. If they brought ssa with them, and have no desire to overcome, and never do overcome their unholy desire/practice while here, they may find they are one of the tares, and the devil is their father. The same thing goes for EVERY person born on Earth. We all have fallen nature, and we are here to show our desire to overcome.

I am not saying that any ssa person is a tare, or a child of Satan. I am saying that whatever they do about their unrighteous desires, just as whatever any straight person does about their own unrighteous desires, will prove to them and the Lord who they worship, and who is their father.

Again, God created our spirits. After that our agency has been forming our character for eons of probationary existence. If this is not true, and you are correct that God makes people ssa or gay, they He also must have "made" some spirit children to be followers of Lucifer, and to reject coming to Earth. But, we know He didn't do that, don't we? So we know that we have used our agency for kabillions of years to shape the individual we were born as on the Earth. We brought character traits and desires with us. We weren't "assigned" or "cursed" with them by our Heavenly Father.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 9:48 am**

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 25th, 2019, 9:29 am So we know that we have used our agency for kabillions of years to shape the individual we were born as on the Earth.

I don't know about that, but it sure feels like we've been using the pre-existence as a deus ex machina for about that long.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 2:20 pm**

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2019, 12:49 pm How much money did this guy make? Asking for a friend.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 5:13 pm**

The telestial aspect - in which we now function as mortal beings - has been corrupted by our human propensity to create all sorts of things without having the slightest comprehension of the long-term outcome - not only of a single engineered chemical, but of how a multiplicity of previously unknown chemicals may interact with one another or how those random combinations impact living organisms.

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics ... /index.cfm

From a life's observation of society's trends, the increase in young male 'same sex attraction' is off the charts. I'm certainly not saying it didn't exist in my youth, but it was rare to see truly feminized characteristics in male children.

Although we are told that the use of Recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone used to increase milk production in dairy cows is harmless to humans, I do know that the 'useful' life of a dairy cow treated with this hormone is between 3-5 years. Our neighbor's dairy doesn't use rBGH to stimulate milk production. His cows are pastured and given high quality hay during the winter. His cows live 12-14 years.

Recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) is a synthetic (man-made) hormone that is marketed to dairy farmers to increase milk production in cows. It has been used in the United States since it was approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1993, but its use is not permitted in the European Union, Canada, and some other countries. This document summarizes what is known about the product and its potential effects on health.

I have known mother's of very young female children alarmed to witness them begin entering puberty as 6-8-year-olds. Ten years or so ago, there was an outcry against the practice of using rBGH. Many dairies have stopped the practice and label their products as being rBGH free.

We are inundated with plastic products which 'mimic' estrogen. Can't be a good thing!

Our bodies are NOT the result of worthiness or unworthiness in the pre-existence.

Our 'choices' can be influenced by all sorts of factors - too many for me to assume understanding in another person.

I have also observed that male children abused or neglected by a 'father figure' tend to either seek approval/love from other men as adults or they become a threat to society - generally speaking. I have heard that a high percentage of hard-core male prisoners were victims of childhood sexual abuse and trauma. I have to wonder if that may be the reason pedophile inmates have to be isolated from them. They do not survive long if hardened inmates can reach them.

As to 'gay' women, I've known only two. One was beaten and abused as a child, along with her mother and sister, by her small-town judge father. She was terrified of men and found comfort with a 'best friend'. I didn't necessarily think the relationship was the best thing for either of them, but I did understand.

The other 'gay' woman I knew was our oldest son's first wife's mother. She was totally 'off the rails' as a responsible mother. It was impossible to develop a 'normal' social relationship with her or her partner. I don't know why she chose to be 'gay'. Our son's marriage did not survive. Too much damage as a consequence of his beautiful wife's upbringing.

We really are not able to judge why people make the choices they do.

I do NOT agree with forcing social acceptance of aberrations in human sexual behavior through public school education or lawsuits aimed at business owners who feel uncomfortable providing services or products specifically catering to 'gay' lifestyle choices.

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 11:06 pm**

IF YOU ARE LED ENTIRELY BY ANOTHER PERSON, CANNOT ENTER CELESTIAL REALMS

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and rinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to do in every trifle, like a child. They cannot control themselves in the least, but James, Peter, or somebody else must control them. They never can become Gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives. They never can hold scepters of glory, majesty, and power in the Celestial Kingdom” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pg. 312).b.y.

THOSE WHO “FOLLOW a Prophet” (ARM OF FLESH) OR IDENTIFY AS SUCH HAVE GODS WRATH.
D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another--some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.
102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.
103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.
105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.
106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

Posted: **July 25th, 2019, 11:07 pm**

skylight wrote: ↑July 25th, 2019, 11:06 pm
Stahura wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2019, 4:52 pm
gangbusters wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2019, 4:46 pm
Stahura wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2019, 4:39 pm

Just a few off the top of my head, and this is with that thought that decades ago , the President of the Church told us that false doctrine is found within our publications and preached from the pulpit.

1: The very teaching that the Prophet cannot lead us astray

I don't know what you mean by "lead astray". Do you take that to mean "Led into apostasy"?

IMO "lead astray" would be to preach any false teaching as true doctrine.
IF YOU ARE LED ENTIRELY BY ANOTHER PERSON, CANNOT ENTER CELESTIAL REALMS

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and rinning their faith upon another’s sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to do in every trifle, like a child. They cannot control themselves in the least, but James, Peter, or somebody else must control them. They never can become Gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives. They never can hold scepters of glory, majesty, and power in the Celestial Kingdom” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pg. 312).b.y.

THOSE WHO “Follow a Prophet” (ARM OF FLESH) OR IDENTIFY AS SUCH HAVE GODS WRATH.
D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another--some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.
102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.
103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.
105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.
106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

Posted: **July 26th, 2019, 10:05 am**

How could you (or anyone else) know if they did or did not? Have they said as much?

Good point, that is the exact reason I asked the questions:

"Are you saying Church leaders in the past never thought about it? Never contemplated the question or asked for the Lords directions?"

I didn't make a statement of conjecture. Simply asked for clarification (where did the poster get such information?)

Here is a good example of a statement of conjecture. Why not pose your question to them?

"That's why the church leaders stopped condemning the ssa urge, because they started to actually think about it."

Posted: **July 26th, 2019, 11:03 am**

pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑July 25th, 2019, 9:08 am
because they started to actually think about it.
Are you saying Church leaders in the past never thought about it? Never contemplated the question or asked for the Lords directions?

Yea. Nobody thought about it. Why would they, There was no one on the other side of the argument! Not till now and we're being forced to reconsider the condemnation of the person who insists their natural urges are something they can't control, just like a heterosexual can't control being attracted to the opposite sex. I don't blame leaders one bit for not questioning. I think it's surprising they reconsidered.

Posted: **July 26th, 2019, 11:09 am**

concierge wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:19 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Wrong.
Alma 12 14
For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence

It's about teaching correct principles. It's why the Jews in Jesus time were condemned. They did everything right by outward appearances, but inside they were wicked and evil.

If you say I am a homosexual you are openly admitting and wanting others to accept that you desire sex with the same sex and that they should believe they're is nothing wrong with that.... well there is big time.

I think your thinking is weird, but whatever. If for some strange reason someone tells you they're homosexual, maybe you should ask what they mean rather than making a likely wrong assumption.

Posted: **July 26th, 2019, 11:14 am**

jmack wrote: ↑July 26th, 2019, 11:09 am
concierge wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:19 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Wrong.
Alma 12 14
For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence

It's about teaching correct principles. It's why the Jews in Jesus time were condemned. They did everything right by outward appearances, but inside they were wicked and evil.

If you say I am a homosexual you are openly admitting and wanting others to accept that you desire sex with the same sex and that they should believe they're is nothing wrong with that.... well there is big time.
I think your thinking is weird, but whatever. If for some strange reason someone tells you they're homosexual, maybe you should ask what they mean rather than making a likely wrong assumption.

??? You can not be serious.

More deception and confusion. Words no longer mean anything. I can say I'm a pedophile and your response is... Don't judge ask them what they mean.

Nope, I'm not going to use made up definitions of words designed to obfuscate.

Posted: **July 27th, 2019, 5:16 am**

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.
24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
(Doctrine and Covenants 112:23–26)

The cleansing cannot start soon enough.

Posted: **July 27th, 2019, 5:29 am**

jmack wrote: ↑July 20th, 2019, 9:17 am You can listen to the ones here who say don't bother telling church leaders but if you have ones you think are good men and women, give them a chance. Don't judge them when you haven't even given them the opportunity to do right. I'm sure someone would care about this, I know my leaders would care.

I have a problem with this "not judging" idea that members have. In all actuality, we are commanded to judge but upon righteous principles. Elder Oaks gave a talk about this, "Judge Not" and Judging, and he said we are not to make final judgments that only God can make, but we are to make intermediate judgments. What I have found is that many people who say, "don't judge" use it as an excuse to not stand for truth and right. Doing this, they attempt to use one commandment to negate another commandment. Saying, "don't judge" in every situation is a misinterpretation of scripture that is nothing more than a false tradition that has been repeated so many times that it has become "doctrine."

Posted: **July 27th, 2019, 3:23 pm**

concierge wrote: ↑July 26th, 2019, 11:14 am
jmack wrote: ↑July 26th, 2019, 11:09 am
concierge wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 6:19 pm
jmack wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 5:18 pm Some of us, including church leaders don't think someone should be accused of sin when they don't act on it. I sure hope those of you who accuse a person with ssa who chooses not to follow through are very careful to banish all wrong thoughts from your mind, since you will be judged for them. Jesus said you'll be judged by the standard you judged others so good luck with that.
Wrong.
Alma 12 14
For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence

It's about teaching correct principles. It's why the Jews in Jesus time were condemned. They did everything right by outward appearances, but inside they were wicked and evil.

If you say I am a homosexual you are openly admitting and wanting others to accept that you desire sex with the same sex and that they should believe they're is nothing wrong with that.... well there is big time.
I think your thinking is weird, but whatever. If for some strange reason someone tells you they're homosexual, maybe you should ask what they mean rather than making a likely wrong assumption.
??? You can not be serious.

More deception and confusion. Words no longer mean anything. I can say I'm a pedophile and your response is... Don't judge ask them what they mean.

Nope, I'm not going to use made up definitions of words designed to obfuscate.

When someone admits they are homosexual, they mean they are attracted to the same sex. It doesn't mean they are acting on those feelings. It doesn't necessarily mean they demand there's nothing wrong with it. For some it's a devastating secret that they share to get help or for others to understand some things about them. No one is asking you to use made up definitions, just asking you to not make false assumptions about things you obviously don't have a clue about. Fyi, assumptions are judgments and if you're going to make them you better care if they are true or false.

Posted: **July 28th, 2019, 10:38 am**

mike_rumble wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 10:22 am Readers may wonder why members are becoming inactive or leaving altogether, but it's not so hard to understand when these things happen and there is only silence from the Authorities of the Church. Is it enough to just make positive statements on morality without an equal condemnation of specific acts of immorality? I don't think so, in my opinion anyway.

I'm starting to think the church wants all these people to leave and leave them alone. They are just kind of waiting for all the social mormons to drop out and doing it on good terms so they won't fight against the church. That's why the Church is so silent on everything and saying things about home-centered church, staying in the ship, personal revelation and why there was that pronouncement from years ago where they said "We've asked you to get a food storage. We aren't going to ask again." I have always took that as a sign that the church has said a bunch of stuff and they won't be able to say it again. Just study it out.

Posted: **July 28th, 2019, 5:03 pm**

harakim wrote: ↑July 28th, 2019, 10:38 am
mike_rumble wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 10:22 am Readers may wonder why members are becoming inactive or leaving altogether, but it's not so hard to understand when these things happen and there is only silence from the Authorities of the Church. Is it enough to just make positive statements on morality without an equal condemnation of specific acts of immorality? I don't think so, in my opinion anyway.
I'm starting to think the church wants all these people to leave and leave them alone. They are just kind of waiting for all the social mormons to drop out and doing it on good terms so they won't fight against the church. That's why the Church is so silent on everything and saying things about home-centered church, staying in the ship, personal revelation and why there was that pronouncement from years ago where they said "We've asked you to get a food storage. We aren't going to ask again." I have always took that as a sign that the church has said a bunch of stuff and they won't be able to say it again. Just study it out.

Wait, when was this food storage pronouncement? This sounds vaguely familiar like a rumor or something. Is there a link?

Posted: **July 28th, 2019, 8:17 pm**

Rwp wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 10:10 am After a long day with the kids, and a long talk about how wicked our society is with my husband, I got ready for bed and opened up my Instagram. I clicked the story bubble of a girl in my stake who I follow. She posted a video of a drag queen dancing for a crowd of other LDS woman. Her caption "perfectly posh killed it with the talent".

I was horrified. Knowing that this girl tends to go to a lot of these "social media influencer parties" I looked up a few other women who are local "influencers". Every.single.one was there. Dozens of women. I'm disgusted right now. They were each recording the whole thing, shoving dollar bills down his bra.

One woman said "bridging the gap between the church and hate with drag"

What the hell is happening?? These are women who bare testimony of Christ but are participating in really disgusting behavior.

In what part of Zion did this take place? My guess is Utah.

Posted: **July 28th, 2019, 9:53 pm**

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: ↑July 28th, 2019, 8:17 pm
Rwp wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 10:10 am After a long day with the kids, and a long talk about how wicked our society is with my husband, I got ready for bed and opened up my Instagram. I clicked the story bubble of a girl in my stake who I follow. She posted a video of a drag queen dancing for a crowd of other LDS woman. Her caption "perfectly posh killed it with the talent".

I was horrified. Knowing that this girl tends to go to a lot of these "social media influencer parties" I looked up a few other women who are local "influencers". Every.single.one was there. Dozens of women. I'm disgusted right now. They were each recording the whole thing, shoving dollar bills down his bra.

One woman said "bridging the gap between the church and hate with drag"

What the hell is happening?? These are women who bare testimony of Christ but are participating in really disgusting behavior.
In what part of Zion did this take place? My guess is Utah.

There's lots of crazy stuff going on in Utah, even during Sunday meetings.....

https://m.facebook.com/ben.schilaty/pos ... 1315195587

A bishop invited a gay man, a lesbian woman, and a transgender woman to give a presentation in the second hour combined meeting.

Posted: **July 28th, 2019, 10:14 pm**

harakim wrote: ↑July 28th, 2019, 10:38 amI'm starting to think the church wants all these people to leave and leave them alone.

That would certainly be the pragmatic course of action. The world evolves at such a quick pace these days. Likely these are the very people which are likely to devolve into the most virulent detractors of the church.

I don’t think their preparatory efforts will prove effective, but maybe there are reasons beyond my understanding.

Posted: **July 29th, 2019, 1:45 am**

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 28th, 2019, 9:53 pm
Rumpelstiltskin wrote: ↑July 28th, 2019, 8:17 pm
Rwp wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 10:10 am After a long day with the kids, and a long talk about how wicked our society is with my husband, I got ready for bed and opened up my Instagram. I clicked the story bubble of a girl in my stake who I follow. She posted a video of a drag queen dancing for a crowd of other LDS woman. Her caption "perfectly posh killed it with the talent".

I was horrified. Knowing that this girl tends to go to a lot of these "social media influencer parties" I looked up a few other women who are local "influencers". Every.single.one was there. Dozens of women. I'm disgusted right now. They were each recording the whole thing, shoving dollar bills down his bra.

One woman said "bridging the gap between the church and hate with drag"

What the hell is happening?? These are women who bare testimony of Christ but are participating in really disgusting behavior.
In what part of Zion did this take place? My guess is Utah.
There's lots of crazy stuff going on in Utah, even during Sunday meetings.....

https://m.facebook.com/ben.schilaty/pos ... 1315195587

A bishop invited a gay man, a lesbian woman, and a transgender woman to give a presentation in the second hour combined meeting.

First, you tolerate, then you accept, then you embrace.

" Or in other words, yield yourselves up unto us, and unite with us and become acquainted with our secret works, and become our brethren that ye may be like unto us—not our slaves, but our brethren and partners of all our substance."
(3 Nephi 3:7)

LDS Freedom Forum

Members of the church shoving dollar bills into drag queens bra last night

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