"stirs up the Gentiles"

[I AM]

from what I see,
I think I may have helped with this.
Simply by showing the scriptures that do this.

"Although the scriptures say that the Gentiles will perish, the Lord doesn't utterly destroy them. Some Gentiles, as we have seen, turn from their evil ways. Some don't harden their hearts. They don't unite with that great and abominable church nor fight against Zion.
These Gentiles know where their blessings come from - they know that the Lord has blessed them with the blessings of Israel.
To save as many Gentiles as will come to him, the Lord calls on them before the day of judgement.
he stirs up the Gentiles and the house of Israel in order to persuade them to repent.
The Gentiles must repent and not continue in iniquity.
They must forthwith repent and humble themselves. If they do, it will be well with them.
As they repent and come to the Lord, he will be merciful to them.
Those Gentiles who repent and obey the words of Christ will be blessed."

[justme]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

[I AM]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

[Davka]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

My patriarchal blessing says differently.

At the very least, I fit into a third category of gentile/member of the tribe of Ephraim.

[I AM]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

My patriarchal blessing says differently.

At the very least, I fit into a third category of gentile/member of the tribe of Ephraim.

--------------
doesn't matter what your patriarchal blessing says
or even if you ARE OF the House of Israel by blood.
For now you are a Gentile.
I would suggest you find this thread
"Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?"
and read my comments.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51365&p=927913#p927913

[Davka]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

My patriarchal blessing says differently.

At the very least, I fit into a third category of gentile/member of the tribe of Ephraim.

--------------
doesn't matter what your patriarchal blessing says
or even if you ARE OF the House of Israel by blood.
For now you are a Gentile.
I would suggest you find this thread
"Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?"
and read my comments.

I’ve read them, many times, actually, and understand your argument. I just disagree with your conclusions.

Thanks for the responses, I AM.

[DRC53]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

My patriarchal blessing says differently.

At the very least, I fit into a third category of gentile/member of the tribe of Ephraim.

--------------
doesn't matter what your patriarchal blessing says
or even if you ARE OF the House of Israel by blood.
For now you are a Gentile.
I would suggest you find this thread
"Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?"
and read my comments.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51365&p=927913#p927913

Yes, based on what I can see from the Book of Mormon, for purposes of the Book of Mormon, there are three groups: (1) descendants of Lehi, (2) Jews, and, (3) Gentiles. That means that 11 of the twelve tribes of Israel, including those of Ephraim, fall into the Gentiles category. Outside of the Book of Mormon, those of Ephraim and other tribes of Israel very well could be categorized as part of the House of Israel ... it all just depends on the circumstances. But, with respect to the warnings to the Gentiles in the Book of Mormon, we of the Lord’s Church would be remiss not to take those warnings against the Gentiles very personal and heed these warnings.

[I AM]

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."

Jesus spoke of two groups.
Which group are you in ?
We as members of the church are all Gentiles - at least for now,
and the Book of Mormon refers to us as one.

[buffalo_girl]

READ the entire chapter of each reference. These passages have clarified the difference, for me:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ang=eng#p1

2Nephi 30
1 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.

2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1?lang=eng

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

[I AM]

Quote

"The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants detail the Gentiles' latter-day experience .
Nephi calls the latter days "the days of the Gentiles" (2 Nephi 27:1)
He identifies the Gentiles as primarily the Europeans (1 Nephi 13:2-4, 10-14)
Many go out of captivity in their native lands to the land of America (1 Nephi 13:13-16, 30)"

The Prophet Joseph Smith made it clear, in the
Kirtland Temple Dedicatory Prayer, that (at the very least)
the early members of the Church, who were almost exclusively
from Western European descent, are the 'Gentiles' –
spoken of in the Book of Mormon:

(D&C 109:60)

60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee,
concerning the revelations and commandments which thou
hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles
- Joseph Smith


Avraham Gileadi
"The Last Days Types and Shadows from the Bible and Book of Mormon" page 167

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"


Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.
* (list of things members have done, and continue to do )
"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

Gileadi
page 4
The Gathering of Israel’s Outcasts from Exile

A hard fact of Isaiah’s end-time scenario is that it is not those who appear to be God’s people whom God saves in the end but those who are rejected by the majority. These “outcasts” suffer “reproach” and “ridicule,” are “excluded” from God’s people, and, like God’s servant who gathers them, are “despised” and “abhorred” until God reverses their circumstances (Isaiah 49:7–8; 51:7; 60:15–16; 61:7, 9; 66:5–8). In the end, those who are excluded and betrayed by their own people, are gathered with God’s righteous remnant: “Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: ‘I will gather others to those already gathered’” (Isaiah 56:3, 8).

[justme]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

Okay let me focus the question a bit more. Let's go back to the pre existence, an oxymoron I know. It seems that at that point there was some distinction or separation made into Israel and Gentiles that predates who we would be descended from in this life. That is where I would like to hear more opinions on and guidance from the scriptures.

[I AM]

Who is Israel? Who are the Gentiles? That is a deep serious question.

------------
I'm sorry but I must have posted 100's of posts and scriptures
about this, so please look them up, if you ARE really interested
in knowing about this and finding out that you are a Gentile.

Okay let me focus the question a bit more. Let's go back to the pre existence, an oxymoron I know. It seems that at that point there was some distinction or separation made into Israel and Gentiles that predates who we would be descended from in this life. That is where I would like to hear more opinions on and guidance from the scriptures.

-------------
I think you just lost me,
but I have to go right now but consider these things.

quote

Elder H. Verlan Andersen, who would later serve in the First Quorum of the Seventy, made the following observation:

HISTORY WARNS THAT APOSTASY MUST BE EXPECTED

"Religious history testifies that, with the single exception of the inhabitants of the City of Enoch,
“No people to whom the gospel has been given have remained faithful to their covenants for more than a few generations. Time after time the Lord has established His Church among a group who have lived His commandments for a few years and then fallen away, thus bringing upon themselves His judgments. This cycle of human folly, which so many prophets have noted, has repeated itself with such consistent regularity, that any group which finds itself to be the favored recipients of the gospel would do well to assume that their own apostasy is certain, and the only question about it is how long it will take. . . . The fact that the Lord has found it necessary to restore His gospel so many times is in itself evidence of the regularity with which apostasy has occurred, because the only thing which will cause the destruction of His Church is the wickedness of its members."

"Some may assume that a “Gentile apostasy” in these latter days cannot occur because Christ’s Church is here to stay this time. They may assume that widespread departure from gospel principles by Church members is contrary to prophecy. While the scriptures do assure us that the Church will continue to exist and be divinely led by prophets of the Lord right up until his Second Coming, they do not state that all, or even a majority of its members will follow those prophets. On the contrary, they foretell extensive, and in some cases, almost total defection from true principles. For example in Chapter 2 herein, we noted the Lord’s prophecy that only one half of that small group he calls “virgins” will avoid being deceived and destroyed. Let us consider other scriptures which discuss this problem."

PROPHECIES REGARDING APOSTASY IN THESE LATTER DAYS

The Book of Mormon contains many predictions of a falling away among the “Gentiles” in the latter days.
While the non-Jewish, non-Lamanite members of Christ’s Church may not call themselves Gentiles, the Book of Mormon prophets did.
This is clearly shown by the title page of the Nephite scripture which states in the following passage that this book will come forth “by way of the Gentile:”

Wherefore, it is an abridgement of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile…to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—… (See also D&C 20:9)

Christ also used the name “Gentile” to identify those through whom the gospel would go to the Lamanites. (3 Nephi 21:2–4)
If Church members from Gentile nations will bear in mind that the term “Gentile” when used in the Book of Mormon includes them,
the prophecies therein will have much greater meaning and be more disturbing.

Some of the predictions clearly refer to members of Christ’s Church. Consider, for example, the following statement which is found among Nephi’s comments regarding latter-day conditions:

They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. (2 Nephi 28:14)

Even one who considers himself a “humble follower of Christ” is here warned that he will err “in many instances” because he is “taught by the precepts of men.”

Christ levelled His own charge that iniquity would prevail among Gentile members of His Church in the last days in these words:

At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel… and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations… (3 Nephi 16:10)

That He was referring to members of His Church in this passage is evident not only from the fact that He states that the Gentiles
will sin against His gospel, but also in discussing the possibility of their failing to repent, He refers to them as the “Salt of the earth:”

But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden underfoot of my people, O house of Israel. (3 Nephi 16:15)

When Christ uses the term “the salt of the earth”, He means His covenant people, as the following passage explains:

When men are called unto mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men;

They are called to be the savor of men; therefore, if that salt of the earth lose its savor, behold, it is thenceforth good for nothing only to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men. (D&C 101:39–40)


There are two other instances of record wherein the Lord told the Nephites that unless the Gentiles repented, they would be trodden down and torn in pieces. (3 Nephi 20:16, 21:12-14) Mormon, who had witnessed the Lamanites exterminate his own people, used almost the same words as did Christ in the quotations referred to above, in predicting the destruction of the unrepentant Gentiles by a remnant of the house of Jacob:

And then, O ye Gentiles, how can ye stand before the power of God, except ye shall repent and turn from your evil ways?

Therefore, repent ye, and humble yourselves before him lest he shall come out in justice against you—lest a remnant of the seed of Jacob shall go forth among you as a lion, and tear you in pieces, and there is none to deliver. (Mormon 5:22, 24)

Then we have the following words of Moroni which state that the Gentiles would become so wicked that unless they repented they would be destroyed:

And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done. (Ether 2:11)

It should be emphasized that the above quoted statements are not merely warnings against iniquity but they are prophecies also.
In the clearest of language, they predict that the Gentiles will become so wicked that unless repentance occurs we will be destroyed. Or, as the last scripture quoted states it, our iniquities will become so great that if we “continue” in them, we will be swept off as were our predecessors."

[mahalanobis]

You preach about church-wide apostacy relentlessly. Not just 1 thread to get something off your chest, but a never-ending-rehash.

If you have been given a heavenly calling to do this, could you be clear and up-front about your claims of having been called so? If you're "just an average guy" sharing your opinion, why is it so relentless?

[abijah]

You preach about church-wide apostacy relentlessly. Not just 1 thread to get something off your chest, but a never-ending-rehash.

If you have been given a heavenly calling to do this, could you be clear and up-front about your claims of having been called so? If you're "just an average guy" sharing your opinion, why is it so relentless?

[buffalo_girl]

Let's go back to the pre existence, an oxymoron I know. It seems that at that point there was some distinction or separation made into Israel and Gentiles that predates who we would be descended from in this life. That is where I would like to hear more opinions on and guidance from the scriptures.

READ all of Romans 11 and follow any footnotes that interest you.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1?lang=eng

A dear friend with an extensive Native American 'pedigree' - also an Endowment Worker - told me she had had a 'waking' vision in a BYU Education Week lecture. It was revealed to her - while attending an illustrious BYU speaker's instruction to a mature audience - why she & I had had such a hard time being 'perfect' members of 'The Church'. (She & I had each experienced hardships due to failed marriages and consequent struggle to raise 'righteous' children at a time when divorce was unheard of in the membership.)

She 'saw' the two of us in a similar lecture hall prior to our being born into mortality. We were bright and funny and found more interest in our friendship than in listening to our instructor. She felt that our lack of engagement in taking counsel to heart in the pre-existence was a definite factor in where we were placed in mortality. (Please note that my friend during her 'BYU vision' was likewise NOT giving her undivided attention to illustrious counsel.)

I don't know if that's the reason we each had unique and challenging mortal experiences.

I do know we are placed with those from whom we learn and experience those events and relationships necessary for the sacred process of refinement for ALL concerned.

Likewise, our particular traits and talents serve to provide knowledge and experience to those we come to know in mortality. It is mutually beneficial when we are obedient to the Natural & Eternal LAW established by our Creator.

As stated at the end of Romans 11, it all comes together for both Jew and Gentile when we are converted followers of Christ.

Romans 11
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

That requires an algorithm far outside my comprehension.

[I AM]

You preach about church-wide apostacy relentlessly. Not just 1 thread to get something off your chest, but a never-ending-rehash.

If you have been given a heavenly calling to do this, could you be clear and up-front about your claims of having been called so? If you're "just an average guy" sharing your opinion, why is it so relentless?

---------------
because, by the sound of your comments,
you look like you could use it.
You haven't been in the forum very long have you;
you better get use to it.

Isaiah Predicts End-Time Prophets and Seers

Isaiah—a prophet and seer who saw to the end of time—predicts that prophets and seers will exist in that future day. These persons fall into two categories.
First are those who have “gone astray,” who “err as seers” (Isaiah 28:7), “prophets who teach falsehoods” (Isaiah 9:15), whose eyes God closes because of the wickedness of his people (Isaiah 29:10).
These watchmen of God’s people are “blind and unaware; all of them but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber. Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage” (Isaiah 56:10–11).

Second are “watchmen” who prophesy in the day of power, when God “bares his holy arm in the eyes of all nations” (Isaiah 51:9–11; 52:8, 10). They stand on the watchtower day and night, are “most vigilant” and “fully alert” to approaching dangers, and report what they “see” and “hear” (Isaiah 21:6–10). They herald Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth and prepare God’s people for their end-time exodus out of Babylon to Zion (Isaiah 52:7–8, 11–12; compare 48:20–21). They “raise their voice as one” at the time Jehovah comes (Isaiah 52:8). They call upon God without ceasing for the welfare of his people and don’t keep silent day or night (Isaiah 62:6–7).



Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;
all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

[mahalanobis]

You preach about church-wide apostacy relentlessly. Not just 1 thread to get something off your chest, but a never-ending-rehash.

If you have been given a heavenly calling to do this, could you be clear and up-front about your claims of having been called so? If you're "just an average guy" sharing your opinion, why is it so relentless?

---------------
because, by the sound of your comments,
you look like you could use it.
You haven't been in the forum very long have you;
you better get use to it.

Isaiah Predicts End-Time Prophets and Seers

Isaiah—a prophet and seer who saw to the end of time—predicts that prophets and seers will exist in that future day. These persons fall into two categories.
First are those who have “gone astray,” who “err as seers” (Isaiah 28:7), “prophets who teach falsehoods” (Isaiah 9:15), whose eyes God closes because of the wickedness of his people (Isaiah 29:10).
These watchmen of God’s people are “blind and unaware; all of them but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber. Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage” (Isaiah 56:10–11).

Second are “watchmen” who prophesy in the day of power, when God “bares his holy arm in the eyes of all nations” (Isaiah 51:9–11; 52:8, 10). They stand on the watchtower day and night, are “most vigilant” and “fully alert” to approaching dangers, and report what they “see” and “hear” (Isaiah 21:6–10). They herald Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth and prepare God’s people for their end-time exodus out of Babylon to Zion (Isaiah 52:7–8, 11–12; compare 48:20–21). They “raise their voice as one” at the time Jehovah comes (Isaiah 52:8). They call upon God without ceasing for the welfare of his people and don’t keep silent day or night (Isaiah 62:6–7).



Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;
all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

I haven't stated whether I agree or disagree with those scriptures. I follow where the Holy Ghost leads me. I perceive that your commentary is hollow. That doesn't automatically mean you're wrong, but something is off.

Dropping rank (citing how long you've been on the forum): really? Don't care. In fact it only validates my perception of you as a messenger.

So your answer to why you post so much is because "it looks like I need it". Nice dodge. So what's stopping me from pasting in a bunch of scriptures about arrogance and using the same reasoning?

My qualm is not with your opinion, it's the manner and spirit of your delivery.

[I AM]

follow the Holy Ghost huh,
more like led by some other spirit.

I really do need to get rid of as many
dark shadows as I can that are trying to
block my light.
so sorry guy, or what ever you are,
you're truly a waste of time for me.
I'm through seeing your comments.

[mahalanobis]

follow the Holy Ghost huh,
more like led by some other spirit.

sorry guy, or what ever you are,
you're truly a waste of time for me.
so I'm through seeing your comments

You may be right friend. I'm just waiting for the Holy Ghost to confirm if. HG is real. Feel free to belittle my experiences all you want, doesn't change them.

[Bronco73idi]

follow the Holy Ghost huh,
more like led by some other spirit.

sorry guy, or what ever you are,
you're truly a waste of time for me.
so I'm through seeing your comments

You may be right friend. I'm just waiting for the Holy Ghost to confirm if. HG is real. Feel free to belittle my experiences all you want, doesn't change them.

“Am I” is a prophet, Just ask him. He also implied that The adulterous MLK jr. Was a prophet also!!!!

[buffalo_girl]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

Jacob 4
13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.
14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.
15 And now I, Jacob, am led on by the Spirit unto prophesying; for I perceive by the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that by the stumbling of the Jews they will reject the stone upon which they might build and have safe foundation.
16 But behold, according to the scriptures, this stone shall become the great, and the last, and the only sure foundation, upon which the Jews can build.
17 And now, my beloved, how is it possible that these, after having rejected the sure foundation, can ever build upon it, that it may become the head of their corner?
18 Behold, my beloved brethren, I will unfold this mystery unto you; if I do not, by any means, get shaken from my firmness in the Spirit, and stumble because of my over anxiety for you.

Jacob 5 describes the entire mortal history of humankind as The Creator leads us along toward individual redemption. Most of us are 'blind' as Jacob states in Chapter 4. We are carried along by systemic ignorance century after century, with only a very few who follow The LORD in humility and Light.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

[buffalo_girl]

The adulterous MLK jr. Was a prophet also!!!!

I'm not sure MLK, jr. ever sent a husband out to be slaughtered in order to hide the pregnancy of that husband's wife, as did the adulterous King David.

Yet...we do esteem King David as a prophet.

We each have the capacity and gift to prophecy under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit, just so long as that prophecy is appropriate to our individual callings and sphere of stewardship.

Joel 2
28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

[I AM]

yep
I do think there's a stirring going on in the church
and even somewhat in this forum,
to wake members up.
Of course most are still asleep.

"that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation"

2 Nephi 1:13
13 O that ye would awake; awake from a deep sleep, yea,
even from the sleep of hell,
and shake off the awful chains by which ye are bound,
which are the chains which bind
the children of men, that they are carried away captive down
to the eternal gulf of misery and woe.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!