The Son of Man

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:06 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:13 pm

So now you are talking past me like I'm not here. Okay, believe it or not I never claimed to be the Davidic Servant. All I did was share my story. It is you and others that interpreted my story as me claiming to be him. You even demanded that I tell you the defining moment. And when I told you there was none and that it was the sum total of my story that seemed to be saying something you would not accept it. And you demanded even more that I tell you the defining moment. So I humored you and pulled out of my story what seemed like it might be the defining moment. I even acknowledged first that others have stories that say the same as my story. I called it a phenomenon. And I would just leave it at that except my story is magnitudes stronger than anyone else's and I still think that. But the rub for you is that I never heard of the Davidic Servant before I made the initial post of my story. So I ask you, how can I have made that claim before I ever heard of the Davidic Servant. I only engaged in your biased replies to try to keep the conversation going so I could get some possible insights. And in my story when I was forced to look up and say, "I believe" I did not know what exactly I was believing except that I now believe that my story is not random coincidences. So the criticism of me in your post above is way off base.
Lot's of use of the personal pronoun - I - in your response there. I think that's a clear indicator of a false anointed one - someone who can't stop talking about himself.

There are so many titles - Davidic Servant is just one. The servant Isaiah fulfills the Davidic Covenant, i.e. Davidic Servant. The Lord calls this servant David overtly in Ezekiel 37.

You were certainly claiming to be the man child. Without re-treading which titles you claimed, just who did/do you think the man child is?
See, you are wrong again. I never made a claim. In my story I was wondering about the significance of the 9/23/2017 sign since nothing happened. It was by inspiration that it came to me that the sign on 9/23/2017 pointed to the man child's birth. I was going to use Stellarium to scan back to see what I could find. That is when a voice in my head said, "why are you doing it that way when you already know what date to check". My reply was, "here we go again". I did not know what I'd find but I knew by now that when that voice spoke to me that I'd find something. And what I found is truly amazing. But, none of this is me having claimed anything except that I have a story and I shared it.

The man child is the incarnation of Michael TGP and I will prove it with scripture in a follow up post. I have already done this but I will do it again.

Do you always have to level a criticism? Do you always have to elevate yourself by putting others down. And the best you can come up with is that I use the word "I" a lot. Give me a break! :lol:
Some folks agree with you the man child / OMAS is Michael, but you have specifically claimed to be this person and even said your name is part of your claim of being the reincarnation of Michael. Now you're saying you didn't?

Contrasting your claims, the red flags, and your propensity to talk about yourself is not intended to put you down to but to hopefully help folks recognize the fact that the OMAS won't go around claiming to be him, probably won't have the Lord shouting at him to not attend the temple, etc. In fact, I believe the true OMAS won't make any public claims to be the man child whatsoever. I think the rise in claimants is a sign the time is drawing near.

You came here obviously claiming to be the OMAS - now you're trying to make it sound like I'm falsely attributing this to you, which I am not. So, I guess we can throw dishonesty into the mix of things to look out for in false claimants.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All I did was tell my story. That is not claiming anything. You asked questions and I answered according to my story. Yes my story indicates that I am Michael. That is not me claiming anything. That is my story (in the mind of the reader) claiming that I am the Davidic Servant, which I was unaware of as the Davidic Servant was never mentioned in my ward. I can't help what my story indicates. In effect it is you claiming that I am the man child then saying it ain't so. I went back and read my post just to see if I ever inadvertently made any claims and as far as I can see I did not. But in your mind and others I did make a claim. Reread my original post. I only gave the facts of my story. I never gave any speculation as to the meaning. It is the readers that speculated upon its meaning. And about the sign on 9/23/2017 I just gave the facts. I did not add any of my own speculation. My story is just that strong that you cannot distinguish between me making a claim and what my story seems to say. That is on you, not me. Interesting though isn't it?

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:06 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm

Lot's of use of the personal pronoun - I - in your response there. I think that's a clear indicator of a false anointed one - someone who can't stop talking about himself.

There are so many titles - Davidic Servant is just one. The servant Isaiah fulfills the Davidic Covenant, i.e. Davidic Servant. The Lord calls this servant David overtly in Ezekiel 37.

You were certainly claiming to be the man child. Without re-treading which titles you claimed, just who did/do you think the man child is?
See, you are wrong again. I never made a claim. In my story I was wondering about the significance of the 9/23/2017 sign since nothing happened. It was by inspiration that it came to me that the sign on 9/23/2017 pointed to the man child's birth. I was going to use Stellarium to scan back to see what I could find. That is when a voice in my head said, "why are you doing it that way when you already know what date to check". My reply was, "here we go again". I did not know what I'd find but I knew by now that when that voice spoke to me that I'd find something. And what I found is truly amazing. But, none of this is me having claimed anything except that I have a story and I shared it.

The man child is the incarnation of Michael TGP and I will prove it with scripture in a follow up post. I have already done this but I will do it again.

Do you always have to level a criticism? Do you always have to elevate yourself by putting others down. And the best you can come up with is that I use the word "I" a lot. Give me a break! :lol:
Some folks agree with you the man child / OMAS is Michael, but you have specifically claimed to be this person and even said your name is part of your claim of being the reincarnation of Michael. Now you're saying you didn't?

Contrasting your claims, the red flags, and your propensity to talk about yourself is not intended to put you down to but to hopefully help folks recognize the fact that the OMAS won't go around claiming to be him, probably won't have the Lord shouting at him to not attend the temple, etc. In fact, I believe the true OMAS won't make any public claims to be the man child whatsoever. I think the rise in claimants is a sign the time is drawing near.

You came here obviously claiming to be the OMAS - now you're trying to make it sound like I'm falsely attributing this to you, which I am not. So, I guess we can throw dishonesty into the mix of things to look out for in false claimants.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All I did was tell my story. That is not claiming anything. You asked questions and I answered according to my story. Yes my story indicates that I am Michael. That is not me claiming anything. That is my story (in the mind of the reader) claiming that I am the Davidic Servant, which I was unaware of as the Davidic Servant was never mentioned in my ward. I can't help what my story indicates. In effect it is you claiming that I am the man child then saying it ain't so. I went back and read my post just to see if I ever inadvertently made any claims and as far as I can see I did not. But in your mind and others I did make a claim. Reread my original post. I only gave the facts of my story. I never gave any speculation as to the meaning. It is the readers that speculated upon its meaning. And about the sign on 9/23/2017 I just gave the facts. I did not add any of my own speculation. My story is just that strong that you cannot distinguish between me making a claim and what my story seems to say. That is on you, not me. Interesting though isn't it?
So you're saying all you did was share your story which indicates you are the Michael ... but you're not claiming anything.

ಠ_ಠ

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Michael Sherwin
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Posts: 1984

Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 5:07 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:06 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:48 pm

See, you are wrong again. I never made a claim. In my story I was wondering about the significance of the 9/23/2017 sign since nothing happened. It was by inspiration that it came to me that the sign on 9/23/2017 pointed to the man child's birth. I was going to use Stellarium to scan back to see what I could find. That is when a voice in my head said, "why are you doing it that way when you already know what date to check". My reply was, "here we go again". I did not know what I'd find but I knew by now that when that voice spoke to me that I'd find something. And what I found is truly amazing. But, none of this is me having claimed anything except that I have a story and I shared it.

The man child is the incarnation of Michael TGP and I will prove it with scripture in a follow up post. I have already done this but I will do it again.

Do you always have to level a criticism? Do you always have to elevate yourself by putting others down. And the best you can come up with is that I use the word "I" a lot. Give me a break! :lol:
Some folks agree with you the man child / OMAS is Michael, but you have specifically claimed to be this person and even said your name is part of your claim of being the reincarnation of Michael. Now you're saying you didn't?

Contrasting your claims, the red flags, and your propensity to talk about yourself is not intended to put you down to but to hopefully help folks recognize the fact that the OMAS won't go around claiming to be him, probably won't have the Lord shouting at him to not attend the temple, etc. In fact, I believe the true OMAS won't make any public claims to be the man child whatsoever. I think the rise in claimants is a sign the time is drawing near.

You came here obviously claiming to be the OMAS - now you're trying to make it sound like I'm falsely attributing this to you, which I am not. So, I guess we can throw dishonesty into the mix of things to look out for in false claimants.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All I did was tell my story. That is not claiming anything. You asked questions and I answered according to my story. Yes my story indicates that I am Michael. That is not me claiming anything. That is my story (in the mind of the reader) claiming that I am the Davidic Servant, which I was unaware of as the Davidic Servant was never mentioned in my ward. I can't help what my story indicates. In effect it is you claiming that I am the man child then saying it ain't so. I went back and read my post just to see if I ever inadvertently made any claims and as far as I can see I did not. But in your mind and others I did make a claim. Reread my original post. I only gave the facts of my story. I never gave any speculation as to the meaning. It is the readers that speculated upon its meaning. And about the sign on 9/23/2017 I just gave the facts. I did not add any of my own speculation. My story is just that strong that you cannot distinguish between me making a claim and what my story seems to say. That is on you, not me. Interesting though isn't it?
So you're saying all you did was share your story which indicates you are the Michael ... but you're not claiming anything.

ಠ_ಠ
Here is the opening line.
This seems dangerous but how can I resist the offer to tell my story.
Do you think that maybe I had anticipated the way it would go? Do you think that maybe I knew better than to actually make a claim? I could have added speculation as to what my story indicates. Can you now see that I purposely avoided making speculations and only gave the facts. No claim making was done by me. Any claim making was done for me by others on my behalf because of my story and what it indicates. I knew it would happen! :)

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man is Michael TGP

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:48 pm Let's begin from the end and work backwards.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The focus in the above passage is Michael and what he did. And in the passage is mentioned God and his Christ meaning Jesus and his anointed one. Which points us back to Revelation 11:15.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
The anointed one returns with Jesus. For the anointed one to return he must have been here and then been caught up. That is a strong indication that Michael is the man child.
1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
And here we see Michael returning with Jesus.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Here we see the messenger of the covenant. That has always been the angel of the LORD. Michael is the angel of the LORD and he is the prince of Daniel's people and has always dealt with Israel.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
And we see this messenger in heaven before he comes to earth. And he is an angel.
Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
And the messenger does return to (help) discern between the righteous and the wicked. That implies that he has been taken up after his initial mission.

"the power of his Christ"
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
The above is about the man child and his anointing. He is an instructor i.e. a messenger/teacher just like the messenger in Malachi 3:1 and like the mighty and strong one in Isaiah 28:2.

Michael, the man child, and the messengers are all seen at the time of salvation which is the time of Revelation 12:10.

"and strength"
Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
The woman that travailith is the sign on 9/23/2017.
Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Before the sign she brought forth the man child.
Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
The one that she brought forth is the one that stands. The man child stands.

"Now is come salvation"
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And to stand as defined in this very same chapter means to stand on earth.
Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
So we have the messengers, the man child, the one that stands and Michael ALL present at the time of salvation doing God's work. The only question left unanswered is, 'does Michael receive a great anointing'?
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And yes it is obvious that Michael has received great power, a great anointing.

Alaris, me (lol) has read most of your blog and me sees that you constantly bounce off of Michael equating him with the Davidic Servant. Then it seems you back off from that position. And at this forum you just plainly deny that possibility. I hope that just using the Bible and no other text it is proven that the messenger of Malachi 3:1 and the messenger of Isaiah 28:2 and the man child of Revelation 12 and the one that stands of Micah 5:4 and Michael that stands are all one in the same. They all receive great power, a great anointing, are all seen at the time of Revelation 12 and all performing a mission for the LORD.
Thank you for something substantive to discuss that doesn't revolve around you ... well from my point of view. ;)

Just about everything on my blog indicates how and why Michael is not the One Mighty and Strong. Here are some of the apocryphal works that underscore this truth:

1 Enoch
3 Enoch
Discourse on Abbaton
The Apocalypse of Abraham
The Apocalypse of Thomas
The Acts of John (newly discovered tyvm Robbinius)

The 8th angel is hidden or obscured - his name is hidden. Michael's name is not hidden. It's Michael. Everyone has heard of Michael. There are two separate chapters in Daniel where the OMAS and Michael are separate, and distinct. In Daniel 7, the Ancient of Days (Michael) gives dominion to the one like unto the Son of Man who is brought before Adam / Michael to receive dominion from Adam / Michael. This act helps underscore the truth of this thread - Jesus does not receive dominion from Michael, being greater than Michael. The one like unto the Son of Man is in fact the OMAS / Davidic Servant / Man Child.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


In Daniel 10, the nameless, hidden Angel of the Lord receives help from Michael.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me (The Angel of the Lord) one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael did not help himself (you can find great breakdowns of Daniel 10 online about the two angels of Daniel 10 - happy to help you find some if you want)

Apocalypse of Abraham:16. honor has been prepared for you by the Eternal One. Go, complete the sacrifice of the command, Behold, I am assigned (to be) with you and with the generation
17. which is predestined (to be born) from you. And with me Michael blesses you forever. Be bold, go!"


Above is the Angel of the Lord, and the highly obscured name Jahoel / Iaoel is aligned to the Angel of the Lord (who bears the ineffable name (Exodus 23) - this name indicates JAH is shared. There is no sharing of any part of YHWH in MICHAEL. JAHOEL, on the other hand, is a mix of the roots of YHWH and ELOHIM - a proper name for the Holy Ghost) speaking to Abraham and citing Michael as a separate person. The standard works show that the man child / OMAS is not Michael.

Judges 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

More for consideration:

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Alt translation

1 Corinthians 15:45 New International Version (NIV)
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


A life giving spirit! huh! Might that be the Angel who sounds the Trump of the first resurrection and may have indeed been the one who rose Jesus from the dead? These are two separate Adams! The first Archangel - Michael, and the last - Jahoel

D&C 88:94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.
97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—
98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.


All this is accomplished by the voice of the nameless, numberless angel of God, including the morning of the first resurrection. This scripture goes on to start counting angels unto the seventh who calls the last resurrection and then aligns that seventh angel to Michael. Michael calls the final resurrection - The OMAS' dominion is exclusively Israel. The Holy Ghost is a gift to .... ISRAEL. Michael's dominion is greater which is why he sounds the final trump that includes everyone. The Davidic King in the end is a prince & king forever over ... Israel. (see Ezekiel 37)

Moreover, the judgement of the great whore and the destruction of the wicked - all roles of the nameless Angel of the Lord, is aligned to the one wearing Red - so again we have a link that points away from Michael. This is all covered my latest two articles

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... f-man.html

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

I recommend reading through the articles on the seven levels of mankind again. Michael presides over the archangels which is the seventh level. The OMAS is ascending from the sixth level and will be receiving the reward of the sixth promise of revelation--that same reward is given to those who join this seventh order or class of mankind. Uncoincidentally, The Discourse on Abbaton illustrates this beautifully when seven angels pass on delivering the materials to create Adam to the Father. The eighth angel complies. The right was given to the seven first as they all have greater authority than the eighth angel, and they all ceremoniously (imho) passed the buck to the eighth angel. The story of David and the sons of Jesse is a type of this.

This promised reward that is given exclusively to the archangels / patriarchs (think of the name of the fourth token) ties into Revelation 12 and the ascension of the man child to the throne of God.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.(David = Beloved)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (indicates the angel incarnates at the end)
11 Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (the crown is conditional until his mortal ministry where it is made permanent - see Ezekiel 37 again)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


The sixth message to the sixth angel of the sixth church that includes the sixth promise of overcoming aligns to the six-winged seraphim whose ordinance comes from Isaiah 6. "Whom shall I send?" the Lord asks in Isaiah 6.

And though verse 12 above is that sixth promised reward, verse 13 is extremely interesting to me all of a sudden. He that hat an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Who...is ... delivering the message of Revelation? Wouldn't you know it? "My Angel" where "My" is the that first person possessive pronoun indicating ownership by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So we have yet another link from the nameless Angel of the Lord to the Holy Spirit. That same angel who delivered the message, John worships twice, beginning with the vision of the one wearing red who comes in the clouds of glory with all the holy angels with him.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas

This is not a case of "Surprise it was Michael all along. Not Gabriel!" This is a fulfillment of D&C 121:

D&C 121:26 God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;
27 Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory;
28 A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest.
29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

LittleNipper
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by LittleNipper »

I believe the truth is that Jesus became flesh and dwelt among man and so He could be sympathetic to our human plight and yet demonstrate GOD's love in that while we were yet sinner Christ died for us.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man is Michael TGP

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:48 pm Let's begin from the end and work backwards.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The focus in the above passage is Michael and what he did. And in the passage is mentioned God and his Christ meaning Jesus and his anointed one. Which points us back to Revelation 11:15.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
The anointed one returns with Jesus. For the anointed one to return he must have been here and then been caught up. That is a strong indication that Michael is the man child.
1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
And here we see Michael returning with Jesus.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Here we see the messenger of the covenant. That has always been the angel of the LORD. Michael is the angel of the LORD and he is the prince of Daniel's people and has always dealt with Israel.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
And we see this messenger in heaven before he comes to earth. And he is an angel.
Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
And the messenger does return to (help) discern between the righteous and the wicked. That implies that he has been taken up after his initial mission.

"the power of his Christ"
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
The above is about the man child and his anointing. He is an instructor i.e. a messenger/teacher just like the messenger in Malachi 3:1 and like the mighty and strong one in Isaiah 28:2.

Michael, the man child, and the messengers are all seen at the time of salvation which is the time of Revelation 12:10.

"and strength"
Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
The woman that travailith is the sign on 9/23/2017.
Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Before the sign she brought forth the man child.
Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
The one that she brought forth is the one that stands. The man child stands.

"Now is come salvation"
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And to stand as defined in this very same chapter means to stand on earth.
Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
So we have the messengers, the man child, the one that stands and Michael ALL present at the time of salvation doing God's work. The only question left unanswered is, 'does Michael receive a great anointing'?
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And yes it is obvious that Michael has received great power, a great anointing.

Alaris, me (lol) has read most of your blog and me sees that you constantly bounce off of Michael equating him with the Davidic Servant. Then it seems you back off from that position. And at this forum you just plainly deny that possibility. I hope that just using the Bible and no other text it is proven that the messenger of Malachi 3:1 and the messenger of Isaiah 28:2 and the man child of Revelation 12 and the one that stands of Micah 5:4 and Michael that stands are all one in the same. They all receive great power, a great anointing, are all seen at the time of Revelation 12 and all performing a mission for the LORD.
Thank you for something substantive to discuss that doesn't revolve around you ... well from my point of view. ;)

Just about everything on my blog indicates how and why Michael is not the One Mighty and Strong. Here are some of the apocryphal works that underscore this truth:

1 Enoch
3 Enoch
Discourse on Abbaton
The Apocalypse of Abraham
The Apocalypse of Thomas
The Acts of John (newly discovered tyvm Robbinius)

I do not trust these books. Enoch which I have read is in places totally bogus as the author has no knowledge of any deeper truth and in other places it is just wrong.
The 8th angel is hidden or obscured - his name is hidden. Michael's name is not hidden. It's Michael. Everyone has heard of Michael. There are two separate chapters in Daniel where the OMAS and Michael are separate, and distinct. In Daniel 7, the Ancient of Days (Michael) gives dominion to the one like unto the Son of Man who is brought before Adam / Michael to receive dominion from Adam / Michael. This act helps underscore the truth of this thread - Jesus does not receive dominion from Michael, being greater than Michael. The one like unto the Son of Man is in fact the OMAS / Davidic Servant / Man Child.

You assume too much about the name. I doubt Daniel knew the name. So he used a standard technique also used elsewhere in the Bible to name someone after what they are, who is like God. Just like Jesus name was not Immanuel but the Bible called him Immanuel just because he was God with us. And there is a greater problem. How can Michael give dominion to someone that is brought before Adam when Michael is Adam according to the Church? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


According to the NT Jesus is the ancient of days. He is eternal. So one like the son of man can be Michael.

In Daniel 10, the nameless, hidden Angel of the Lord receives help from Michael.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me (The Angel of the Lord) one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

That is a known mistranslation it should say 'Michael the first of the chief princes'. And Michael deals with Israel not Persia. Michael went out of his way to help this unidentified angel which is probably Gabriel.

Michael did not help himself (you can find great breakdowns of Daniel 10 online about the two angels of Daniel 10 - happy to help you find some if you want)

Apocalypse of Abraham:16. honor has been prepared for you by the Eternal One. Go, complete the sacrifice of the command, Behold, I am assigned (to be) with you and with the generation
17. which is predestined (to be born) from you. And with me Michael blesses you forever. Be bold, go!"


Jesus sends Abraham to birth a nation and both Jesus and Michael blesses him. Duh! ;)

Above is the Angel of the Lord, and the highly obscured name Jahoel / Iaoel is aligned to the Angel of the Lord (who bears the ineffable name (Exodus 23) - this name indicates JAH is shared. There is no sharing of any part of YHWH in MICHAEL. JAHOEL, on the other hand, is a mix of the roots of YHWH and ELOHIM - a proper name for the Holy Ghost) speaking to Abraham and citing Michael as a separate person. The standard works show that the man child / OMAS is not Michael.

Totally wrong. Look at my last above.

Judges 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

Once again you are assuming too much about names. Michael also has an unknown name.

More for consideration:

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Alt translation

1 Corinthians 15:45 New International Version (NIV)
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


A life giving spirit! huh! Might that be the Angel who sounds the Trump of the first resurrection and may have indeed been the one who rose Jesus from the dead? These are two separate Adams! The first Archangel - Michael, and the last - Jahoel

Jesus anoints the man child with the power of life. So far I've seen nothing to convince me that it is not Michael.

D&C 88:94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.
97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—
98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.


In Matthew 24:31 it is Jesus that is talking and he sends his angels to gather the elect. The Lord that raises the dead is Michael because Michael was given that power in Rev 2:26-28.

All this is accomplished by the voice of the nameless, numberless angel of God, including the morning of the first resurrection. This scripture goes on to start counting angels unto the seventh who calls the last resurrection and then aligns that seventh angel to Michael. Michael calls the final resurrection - The OMAS' dominion is exclusively Israel. The Holy Ghost is a gift to .... ISRAEL. Michael's dominion is greater which is why he sounds the final trump that includes everyone. The Davidic King in the end is a prince & king forever over ... Israel. (see Ezekiel 37)

The gentiles are grafted into Israel therefore Israel has become all inclusive of those that are saved. So once again you indicate Michael without knowing it.

Moreover, the judgement of the great whore and the destruction of the wicked - all roles of the nameless Angel of the Lord, is aligned to the one wearing Red - so again we have a link that points away from Michael. This is all covered my latest two articles

And yet Jesus' arraignment will be soaked with the blood of the wicked at the battle of Armageddon. Michael is aligned with Jesus.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... f-man.html

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

I recommend reading through the articles on the seven levels of mankind again. Michael presides over the archangels which is the seventh level. The OMAS is ascending from the sixth level and will be receiving the reward of the sixth promise of revelation--that same reward is given to those who join this seventh order or class of mankind. Uncoincidentally, The Discourse on Abbaton illustrates this beautifully when seven angels pass on delivering the materials to create Adam to the Father. The eighth angel complies. The right was given to the seven first as they all have greater authority than the eighth angel, and they all ceremoniously (imho) passed the buck to the eighth angel. The story of David and the sons of Jesse is a type of this.

By definition there is only one Archangel. Archangel simply means highest messenger. There can only be one highest messenger. And indeed in the Bible only one has that title. Any non Bible book that says there is more than one Archangel is not scripture. "with the voice of the archangel" THE archangel!

This promised reward that is given exclusively to the archangels / patriarchs (think of the name of the fourth token) ties into Revelation 12 and the ascension of the man child to the throne of God.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.(David = Beloved)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (indicates the angel incarnates at the end)
11 Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (the crown is conditional until his mortal ministry where it is made permanent - see Ezekiel 37 again)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


"the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth" All seven Spirits of God are incarnated at some point. The last to go out is Michael. It is not the one below the seven or above the seven that is last to go out. It is one of the seven. And yes he is given a new name. But the last to go out is the man child. The man child is Michael. I have shown the errors in your logic saying otherwise.

The sixth message to the sixth angel of the sixth church that includes the sixth promise of overcoming aligns to the six-winged seraphim whose ordinance comes from Isaiah 6. "Whom shall I send?" the Lord asks in Isaiah 6.

And though verse 12 above is that sixth promised reward, verse 13 is extremely interesting to me all of a sudden. He that hat an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Who...is ... delivering the message of Revelation? Wouldn't you know it? "My Angel" where "My" is the that first person possessive pronoun indicating ownership by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

So My Angel is referring to the Angel of the LORD--that always was the messenger ti Israel. It has always been Michael. It is Michael that brings salvation to Israel (gentiles grafted in) in Revelation 12:10. Isaiah 6 Is the man child Michael waking up and realizing just how unclean (marred) he has been in his life because his understanding was removed. Then he sees God and is awakened to his condition. But then an angel is sent to remove his sin.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So we have yet another link from the nameless Angel of the Lord to the Holy Spirit. That same angel who delivered the message, John worships twice, beginning with the vision of the one wearing red who comes in the clouds of glory with all the holy angels with him.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas

This is not a case of "Surprise it was Michael all along. Not Gabriel!" This is a fulfillment of D&C 121:

D&C 121:26 God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;
27 Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory;
28 A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest.
29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Michael is known by his description, "who is like God" but he has not been revealed in the fullness of his glory on earth yet. That comes after his anointing by Jesus with the same anointing Jesus received from the Father that granted sonship upon Jesus. Michael receives the same anointing. Michael gains sonship!
My comments are in this color in the above text,

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon"
AAAAAH, you only see what you want to see. It is Michael that is captain of the Lord's host. It is right there in front of our eyes that in the very text that you use to say it isn't Michael--we see Michael! Like you said in your blog and maybe here iirc Michael and Satan are arch enemies. That is true! Satan does not want Michael to be seen as he really is and wants to keep his mission from the knowledge of man. You seem to be working very hard on Satan's behalf. I said "seem". But I suggest you take stalk of where your inspiration is really coming from.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:27 pm
And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon"
AAAAAH, you only see what you want to see. It is Michael that is captain of the Lord's host. It is right there in front of our eyes that in the very text that you use to say it isn't Michael--we see Michael! Like you said in your blog and maybe here iirc Michael and Satan are arch enemies. That is true! Satan does not want Michael to be seen as he really is and wants to keep his mission from the knowledge of man. You seem to be working very hard on Satan's behalf. I said "seem". But I suggest you take stalk of where your inspiration is really coming from.
I've shown you scriptures where Michael and The Angel of the Lord are separate beings yet I only see what I want to see? I'm sorry to burst this bubble that you've invested into personally.

The spirit I listen to doesn't shout at me to stay away from the temple.

The fact the angel and his name are hidden are all over the scriptures and Apocrypha... You can't shoehorn Michael into that. Did you read discourse on abbadon? That amazing work confirms many truths restored my Joseph Smith and illustrates beautifully how the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael.... And they are separate individuals.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:46 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:27 pm
And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon"
AAAAAH, you only see what you want to see. It is Michael that is captain of the Lord's host. It is right there in front of our eyes that in the very text that you use to say it isn't Michael--we see Michael! Like you said in your blog and maybe here iirc Michael and Satan are arch enemies. That is true! Satan does not want Michael to be seen as he really is and wants to keep his mission from the knowledge of man. You seem to be working very hard on Satan's behalf. I said "seem". But I suggest you take stalk of where your inspiration is really coming from.
I've shown you scriptures where Michael and The Angel of the Lord are separate beings yet I only see what I want to see? I'm sorry to burst this bubble that you've invested into personally.

The spirit I listen to doesn't shout at me to stay away from the temple.

The fact the angel and his name are hidden are all over the scriptures and Apocrypha... You can't shoehorn Michael into that. Did you read discourse on abbadon? That amazing work confirms many truths restored my Joseph Smith and illustrates beautifully how the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael.... And they are separate individuals.
Good luck with your religion of Abbadon!

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 9:10 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:46 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:27 pm
And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come. ~ Apocalypse of Thomas
"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon"
AAAAAH, you only see what you want to see. It is Michael that is captain of the Lord's host. It is right there in front of our eyes that in the very text that you use to say it isn't Michael--we see Michael! Like you said in your blog and maybe here iirc Michael and Satan are arch enemies. That is true! Satan does not want Michael to be seen as he really is and wants to keep his mission from the knowledge of man. You seem to be working very hard on Satan's behalf. I said "seem". But I suggest you take stalk of where your inspiration is really coming from.
I've shown you scriptures where Michael and The Angel of the Lord are separate beings yet I only see what I want to see? I'm sorry to burst this bubble that you've invested into personally.

The spirit I listen to doesn't shout at me to stay away from the temple.

The fact the angel and his name are hidden are all over the scriptures and Apocrypha... You can't shoehorn Michael into that. Did you read discourse on abbadon? That amazing work confirms many truths restored my Joseph Smith and illustrates beautifully how the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael.... And they are separate individuals.
Good luck with your religion of Abbadon!
Weren't you just going on and on about the OMAS being the Destroyer, or am I mixing up claimants? Abbadon means Destroyer. Destruction and judgment are the roles of the lesser Priesthood and the lesser God of Israel. He will sitteth upon the throne is not he who sitteth upon his throne.

What do you think David being the eighth son of Jesse means? Why are kings and prophets almost always (hat tip Robbinius) a younger brother? Why are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Ephraim and David and Solomon all younger brothers? Why is David the eighth son?

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 9:41 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 9:10 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:46 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:27 pm



AAAAAH, you only see what you want to see. It is Michael that is captain of the Lord's host. It is right there in front of our eyes that in the very text that you use to say it isn't Michael--we see Michael! Like you said in your blog and maybe here iirc Michael and Satan are arch enemies. That is true! Satan does not want Michael to be seen as he really is and wants to keep his mission from the knowledge of man. You seem to be working very hard on Satan's behalf. I said "seem". But I suggest you take stalk of where your inspiration is really coming from.
I've shown you scriptures where Michael and The Angel of the Lord are separate beings yet I only see what I want to see? I'm sorry to burst this bubble that you've invested into personally.

The spirit I listen to doesn't shout at me to stay away from the temple.

The fact the angel and his name are hidden are all over the scriptures and Apocrypha... You can't shoehorn Michael into that. Did you read discourse on abbadon? That amazing work confirms many truths restored my Joseph Smith and illustrates beautifully how the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael.... And they are separate individuals.
Good luck with your religion of Abbadon!
Weren't you just going on and on about the OMAS being the Destroyer, or am I mixing up claimants? Abbadon means Destroyer. Destruction and judgment are the roles of the lesser Priesthood and the lesser God of Israel. He will sitteth upon the throne is not he who sitteth upon his throne.

What do you think David being the eighth son of Jesse means? Why are kings and prophets almost always (hat tip Robbinius) a younger brother? Why are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Ephraim and David and Solomon all younger brothers? Why is David the eighth son?
You must be mixing up a claimant with me. I never addressed anything concerning the destroyer. And to me OMAS stands for.

"OMAS was an Italian manufacturer of writing instruments, fountain pens, ink and related luxury goods, founded in 1925 and put in liquidation in January 2016." :mrgreen:

Seriously I never heard the term OMAS before. I have just been letting it slip by in my replies. You can tell me what it means. Please no riddle or jokes! The twins and younger brother pattern has baffled me for decades. I have never received anything from the spirit for that mystery. I know that in human families the oldest child is most often more prideful and the younger children more contrite. But that is just me reaching for straws.

According to the Bible alone Michael, the man child, the messengers and the one that stands all receive a great anointing from the LORD. They all perform essentially the mission of a messenger. And they all come just before judgement. The messenger of Malachi 3:1 comes and then comes again. So he is caught up and returns. The man child comes and is caught up. He clearly is the anointed one. He returns with Jesus in Revelation 11:15. Michael stands and to stand means to stand on earth as in Dan 12:13. But the Archangel Michael returns therefore he is caught up. It stands to reason that Michael is the anointed one that is cut off in Dan 9:26. In Micah 5:3 we see the woman of Rev 12. In Isaiah 66:7 we see the man child was born before the sign. The man child the woman brought forth in Mic 5:3 stands in Mic 5:4. Even Isaiah 28:2 and 28:17 makes 3 direct references to Rev 12 connecting the mighty and strong one with revelation 12. AND, Michael does not kick the devil to the curb until after the man child is caught up. Just please give consideration to all the information in just this one scripture.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation (delivered, Dan 12:1), and strength (Mic 5:4), and the kingdom of our God (Rev 11:15), and the power (Rev 2:26-28) of his Christ (anointed one): for the accuser of our brethren is cast down (by Michael's hand, Isa 28:2), which accused them before our God day and night.

Just that one passage is a mountain of proof. It absolutely identifies Michael as the anointed one. All the rest that was presented is just support.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 11:31 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 9:41 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 15th, 2019, 9:10 pm
Alaris wrote: July 15th, 2019, 8:46 pm

I've shown you scriptures where Michael and The Angel of the Lord are separate beings yet I only see what I want to see? I'm sorry to burst this bubble that you've invested into personally.

The spirit I listen to doesn't shout at me to stay away from the temple.

The fact the angel and his name are hidden are all over the scriptures and Apocrypha... You can't shoehorn Michael into that. Did you read discourse on abbadon? That amazing work confirms many truths restored my Joseph Smith and illustrates beautifully how the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael.... And they are separate individuals.
Good luck with your religion of Abbadon!
Weren't you just going on and on about the OMAS being the Destroyer, or am I mixing up claimants? Abbadon means Destroyer. Destruction and judgment are the roles of the lesser Priesthood and the lesser God of Israel. He will sitteth upon the throne is not he who sitteth upon his throne.

What do you think David being the eighth son of Jesse means? Why are kings and prophets almost always (hat tip Robbinius) a younger brother? Why are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Ephraim and David and Solomon all younger brothers? Why is David the eighth son?
You must be mixing up a claimant with me. I never addressed anything concerning the destroyer. And to me OMAS stands for.

"OMAS was an Italian manufacturer of writing instruments, fountain pens, ink and related luxury goods, founded in 1925 and put in liquidation in January 2016." :mrgreen:

Seriously I never heard the term OMAS before. I have just been letting it slip by in my replies. You can tell me what it means. Please no riddle or jokes! The twins and younger brother pattern has baffled me for decades. I have never received anything from the spirit for that mystery. I know that in human families the oldest child is most often more prideful and the younger children more contrite. But that is just me reaching for straws.

According to the Bible alone Michael, the man child, the messengers and the one that stands all receive a great anointing from the LORD. They all perform essentially the mission of a messenger. And they all come just before judgement. The messenger of Malachi 3:1 comes and then comes again. So he is caught up and returns. The man child comes and is caught up. He clearly is the anointed one. He returns with Jesus in Revelation 11:15. Michael stands and to stand means to stand on earth as in Dan 12:13. But the Archangel Michael returns therefore he is caught up. It stands to reason that Michael is the anointed one that is cut off in Dan 9:26. In Micah 5:3 we see the woman of Rev 12. In Isaiah 66:7 we see the man child was born before the sign. The man child the woman brought forth in Mic 5:3 stands in Mic 5:4. Even Isaiah 28:2 and 28:17 makes 3 direct references to Rev 12 connecting the mighty and strong one with revelation 12. AND, Michael does not kick the devil to the curb until after the man child is caught up. Just please give consideration to all the information in just this one scripture.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation (delivered, Dan 12:1), and strength (Mic 5:4), and the kingdom of our God (Rev 11:15), and the power (Rev 2:26-28) of his Christ (anointed one): for the accuser of our brethren is cast down (by Michael's hand, Isa 28:2), which accused them before our God day and night.

Just that one passage is a mountain of proof. It absolutely identifies Michael as the anointed one. All the rest that was presented is just support.
No riddles or jokes, well, in this one line: OMAS means One Mighty and Strong.

You throw out scriptures as though they prove your case, and you link the one who casts out the devil with the man child where no link is made at all between the two in Revelation 12:10. There is literally a mountain of evidence that the name and identity of the Angel of the Lord is hidden all across our standard works and across the apocrypha. There are many scriptures in our standard works and across the apocrypha that all separate the Angel of the Lord and Michael as two distinct people. I'm sorry Michael, but you can ignore all of these evidences and just choose to focus on the ones that confirm your personal bias. You can continue to see whatever you choose. Michael is the seventh angel. The Angel of the Lord is the "other Angel" of revelation and D&C 88 who has no number or name provided.

Revelation 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

A lion is the symbol of the tribe of Judah - this is the angel who has the birthright. When he cries, the seven thunders - seven angels - including Michael - utter their voices. They have all passed their right to rule to him. As one of the two witnesses, the Davidic Servant dies, and ascends, and receives his dominion from Michael as detailed in Daniel 7. Michael is the one who declares this work finished when he sounds the seventh trump - as the seventh angel (D&C 88)

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.


D&C 88:115 For Michael shall fight their battles, and shall overcome him who seeketh the throne of him who sitteth upon the throne, even the Lamb.


Would you look at that! "him who sitteth upon the throne." Michael is fighting the battles of the one who sitteth upon the throne of Michael.

Image

Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh’s throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.

The identity of the one who sitteth upon the throne has been hidden from the foundation of the world to be revealed at the end. This literally cannot be Michael. We know who he is. We have scriptures about Michael giving this hidden messenger dominion - Daniel 7. There are scriptures that show the Angel of the Lord and Michael are separate such as D&C 88 and Daniel 10. D&C 88 gives an important key - that the seventh angel is Michael. The servant is the "other angel" who sitteth upon the throne all across Revelation. He is the same nameless angel who delivers the message to John - whom John worships after seeing the empowerment and exaltation of this man who is not Michael.

By that key, we know that in Revelation 11, Michael sounds the trump declaring that this throne is secured forever by the one who has been sitting upon the throne at Michael's behest as is the way of the grand presidency. Justice and Judgement - who is the God of Judgement?

Imagine believing and teaching all this and then the Discourse of Abbaton comes to light and magically both reinforces modern revelation and the fact that the 8th angel is neither Michael nor Adam - but that Eliab, David's brother who stood greatest in stature, was in fact a symbol of Michael himself.

D&C 88 and Revelation 11, and 19 all show clearly that the one who wears Red indeed cannot be Michael. The one wearing red brings down the great whore. A nameless, numberless angel accomplishes this in chapter 18. A nameless, numberless angel sounds the trump of her fall in D&C 88. Michael is the named, seventh angel. All these apocrypha (see list I left earlier) that separate Michael from the Angel of the Lord are not all coincidences. They are in fact separate individuals.

If the man child is Michael - who is named in Revelation 12 - then why not just say the man child, who is Michael - ?? I mean, keeping that a secret while naming Michael in the same scripture makes zero sense.

2 Nephi 8:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion: Behold, thou art my people.

Isaiah 49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

1 Nephi 21:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;


He's hidden! Why on Earth would the Lord hide the servant and then tell us alllll about Adam and Michael and their names? This is why Abraham 3 doesn't include names! If it did, we would see something like this:

Abraham 3:24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, (MICHAEL) and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; (just like the Temple!)

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God Jehovah shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord Jehovah said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man (Jahoel): Here am I, send me. And another (the devil) answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.


In 1 Enoch There are TONS of chapters dedicated to the hidden servant, called "the Elect One." He is linked to the Rod of Jesse of Isaiah 11 who we know is a nameless servant in the hands of Christ on whom is laid much power. I mean, why not just say this is Michael in D&C 113? We are already expecting Michael to cast the devil out and to stand up at the end of the world (Daniel.) Only Daniel suggests there is another who receives dominion from Michael? What's he called? "One like unto the Son of Man" just like Abraham 3 indicates. I recommend reading 1 Enoch 40 through ~ 70 if you are able to open your mind and consider all of this. The Elect One is "like" the 7 "Holy Ones" or Archangels. And yes there are seven chief angels, and there is a chief archangels.

Enoch 48:5 Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.

The seven archangels are named - and this eighth ... wow there's that number again! ... this eighth angel who is like the Holy Ones is called the Elect One.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... rvant.html

Like I said, so much of what I've written on my blog points to Michael and the hidden servant being separate - and it makes plain sense so much so that a child can understand. Would God make public the name of his hidden servant?

Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Enoch 62:2 And the Lord of Spirits seated him (Elect One) on the throne of His glory, And the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him, And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners. And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

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Consider the end of the 7th seal.

Revelation 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


There is time no longer meaning that the terrible and dreadful day of the Lord has arrived. And we have a last trump and a mystery.

1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


So we start off by seeing a great angel that has come down to the earth. It is the day of the Lord. It is the 7th and last trump and our gathering to the Lord. And it is the voice of THE archangel with the trumpet of God. It is Michael. And in Revelation 11:15 we see that it is the anointed one returning with Jesus. Just another data point.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

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Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It was not meant to be plain. So why complain that it does not say Michael the man child directly. It was meant to be searched out.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

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Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 12:47 am Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It was not meant to be plain. So why complain that it does not say Michael the man child directly. It was meant to be searched out.
I agree searching is required but having the name of the same person who is hidden from the foundation of the world (that's pre Eden by the way...) just sitting there along side the nameless angel Of Daniel 10, and D&C 88, and the Man child of Revelation 12, and the one like unto the son of Man of Daniel 7 makes no sense whatsoever. A careful study of the furnace in Daniel where his three compatriots are saved by the one like unto the son of man will reveal that this one like unto the son of man is indeed the nameless angel of the Lord. Why name Michael in Daniel 10, alongside this angel, and then just not name him elsewhere. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why not name Michael in Abraham 3?

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

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Alaris wrote: July 16th, 2019, 1:09 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 12:47 am Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It was not meant to be plain. So why complain that it does not say Michael the man child directly. It was meant to be searched out.
I agree searching is required but having the name of the same person who is hidden from the foundation of the world (that's pre Eden by the way...) just sitting there along side the nameless angel Of Daniel 10, and D&C 88, and the Man child of Revelation 12, and the one like unto the son of Man of Daniel 7 makes no sense whatsoever. A careful study of the furnace in Daniel where his three compatriots are saved by the one like unto the son of man will reveal that this one like unto the son of man is indeed the nameless angel of the Lord. Why name Michael in Daniel 10, alongside this angel, and then just not name him elsewhere. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why not name Michael in Abraham 3?
I have to call it a night. I'll pray for more revelation. But just consider the logic. Five individuals all receiving a great anointing. All seen at the time of judgement. All messengers. All having the exact same attributes. All coming and all returning. The logic says it is all the same personage. And to have Revelation 12:10 say that God's Christ cast out the accuser. And we know Michael was the one that cast out the accuser. Like I said it is a mountain. I guess it is like the island (mountain) of Hawaii. It is the tallest mountain in the world with most of it hidden below the waves.

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Re: The Son of Man

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Just to get somewhat of an idea how this "OMAS controversy" has been going on for, well, almost a couple centuries now. Read this partial list of claimants in wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

I've seen or rather heard of many claimants throughout my whole life and it has not slowed down one iota. I think that Mr Diablo has been very earnestly and actively engaged in trying (quite successfully) to muddy and darken the waters in regards to the knowledge of this OMAS/DK/DS, as it is this individual, IMO that chains him and casts him into prison. Besides wresting control of this earth back from him.
And as men in the flesh are quite proud and have an innate desire to be something and/or somebody of renown, full of pride, love to receive the praise of this world, love to receive rewards, love to have badges pinned upon us, love to have society speak well if us, love to be called good, always wanting to excel one above another, etc. we just give the adversary a whole field of millions of potential candidates to deceive "even the very elect if it were possible".
Again, I think that having the knowledge of, or identity of this OMAS/DS/DK will eventually reach a point that it will become a matter of life and death. As in the direct acceptance of who He actually is or is not. " My sheep know My Voice and a false shepard they will not follow". Which indicates that the true sheep will follow His Voice. And that ,IMO, will apply to this coming Deliverer, Shepard that we are talking about.
According to Lehi's dream, it seems that the vast majority of mankind refuse to fully follow the True Shepard, as most of us cannot stand to have the finger of scorn pointed at us. And that seems to be the dividing line. If we cannot learn to abase ourselves here on earth, to be a nobody, as did Christ, we will never be His sheep. " Call no man good" says the good Shepard, but the Father in heaven. But we love to praise man and recieve praise and pin awards and metals and ribbons upon each other. That is a very distinguishing characteristic that defines whether a person is with God or against Him. A man of God will completely rebuke praise directed to him, whereas if we are in the devil's camp we will soak it up. But, it can be repented of, but first we have to recognize it.
So yes, OMAS's come and go it seems by the hundreds, non stop so far, but I figure at the very most only one can be right. But I do not know who it is yet, but someday hope to.

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Re: The Son of Man

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Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 1:56 am
Alaris wrote: July 16th, 2019, 1:09 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 12:47 am Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It was not meant to be plain. So why complain that it does not say Michael the man child directly. It was meant to be searched out.
I agree searching is required but having the name of the same person who is hidden from the foundation of the world (that's pre Eden by the way...) just sitting there along side the nameless angel Of Daniel 10, and D&C 88, and the Man child of Revelation 12, and the one like unto the son of Man of Daniel 7 makes no sense whatsoever. A careful study of the furnace in Daniel where his three compatriots are saved by the one like unto the son of man will reveal that this one like unto the son of man is indeed the nameless angel of the Lord. Why name Michael in Daniel 10, alongside this angel, and then just not name him elsewhere. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why not name Michael in Abraham 3?
I have to call it a night. I'll pray for more revelation. But just consider the logic. Five individuals all receiving a great anointing. All seen at the time of judgement. All messengers. All having the exact same attributes. All coming and all returning. The logic says it is all the same personage. And to have Revelation 12:10 say that God's Christ cast out the accuser. And we know Michael was the one that cast out the accuser. Like I said it is a mountain. I guess it is like the island (mountain) of Hawaii. It is the tallest mountain in the world with most of it hidden below the waves.
You ask me to use logic when plain English is thrown out the window.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night


"the accuser of our brethren is cast down," is the passive voice. If you don't know what the passive voice is I'd be happy to do full breakdown without rubbing your nose in it. But, essentially it means there is no active owner of the action. "Bob ate cereal," is active. Bob is the one who ate the cereal. "The cereal was eaten." Same action except the one who ate the cereal is missing. Likewise, "the accuser of our brethren is cast down," does not attribute "his Christ" or anyone in that sentence to who did the casting down. Now, why use the passive voice here if the Lords Christ is Michael??? The simple answer is because the Lord’s Christ is not Michael.

Modern revelation aligns Michael to Adam. We know who Michael is and the fact he will stand up at the end. So why maintain all the secrecy throughout the D&C, PoGP, and Book of Mormon regarding the identity of the OMAS / Rod of Jesse / Man Child / The one from Edom / The arm of the Lord / The Angel of the Lord who bears the ineffable name... And he who sitteth upon the throne?

If it were Michael it would be he who sitteth upon his throne. He earned this world the same way any man attains to the stewardship of a world. He wasn't placed in the Garden willy nilly. He and Eve walked into Eden with Celestial bodies the same way anyone earns a celestial body.

The revealing of the Son of Man, the revealing of the hidden angel would be no revelation at all of it were Michael! Can you imagine? Here comes the hidden angel in power and glory with all the holy angels.... And its Michael! Surprise! I mean who saw the chief archangel as a potential contender? Everyone knows Michael is the chief archangel.

It's not Michael. Michael does not give himself dominion in Daniel 7. The Angel of the Lord rescued Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Daniel already named the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and Michael in Daniel 10. Why hide the identity of the one who rescues Daniel's compatriots if that were also Michael? In Daniel 10, Michael is helping the Angel of the Lord. That would be a great chapter to study and pray over.

Discourse on Abbaton doesn't magically confirm our unique doctrines restored by Joseph Smith and then get the one who sitteth upon the throne incorrect. Neither does 1 Enoch, 3 Enoch, or The Apocalypse of Abraham - all of which differentiate Michael from the Angel of the Lord.

Something else to ponder - Why is Michael casting out the devil (this is a future event not a past event) to the Earth rather than the Angel of the Lord? It's the same reason why the Lord reverses the conditions of assistance from the other side of the veil from ancient times to modern. Anciently, the Angel of the Lord only went before Israel without the Lord's presence. At the end, both angels, plural, and the Lord's presence go before Israel because that Angel of the Lord is now in the flesh. So, Michael - who is in heaven- is the one warring on the other side of the veil.

D&C 103:18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.
20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.


All these apocrypha that underscore the fact that the Angel of the Lord is not Michael - that he is hidden from the foundation of the world to be revealed at the end - I would say with certainty that this truth is included in Nephi's statement here:

1 Nephi 13:28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
Last edited by Alaris on July 16th, 2019, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Alaris wrote: July 16th, 2019, 10:49 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 1:56 am
Alaris wrote: July 16th, 2019, 1:09 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 16th, 2019, 12:47 am Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It was not meant to be plain. So why complain that it does not say Michael the man child directly. It was meant to be searched out.
I agree searching is required but having the name of the same person who is hidden from the foundation of the world (that's pre Eden by the way...) just sitting there along side the nameless angel Of Daniel 10, and D&C 88, and the Man child of Revelation 12, and the one like unto the son of Man of Daniel 7 makes no sense whatsoever. A careful study of the furnace in Daniel where his three compatriots are saved by the one like unto the son of man will reveal that this one like unto the son of man is indeed the nameless angel of the Lord. Why name Michael in Daniel 10, alongside this angel, and then just not name him elsewhere. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why not name Michael in Abraham 3?
I have to call it a night. I'll pray for more revelation. But just consider the logic. Five individuals all receiving a great anointing. All seen at the time of judgement. All messengers. All having the exact same attributes. All coming and all returning. The logic says it is all the same personage. And to have Revelation 12:10 say that God's Christ cast out the accuser. And we know Michael was the one that cast out the accuser. Like I said it is a mountain. I guess it is like the island (mountain) of Hawaii. It is the tallest mountain in the world with most of it hidden below the waves.
You ask me to use logic when plain English is thrown out the window.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night


"the accuser of our brethren is cast down," is the passive voice. If you don't know what the passive voice is I'd be happy to do full breakdown without rubbing your nose in it. But, essentially it means there is no active owner of the action. "Bob ate cereal," is active. Bob is the one who ate the cereal. "The cereal was eaten." Same action except the one who ate the cereal is missing. Likewise, "the accuser of our brethren is cast down," does not attribute "his Christ" or anyone in that sentence to who did the casting down. Now, why use the passive voice here if the Lords Christ is Michael??? The simple answer is because the Lord’s Christ is not Michael.

Modern revelation aligns Michael to Adam. We know who Michael is and the fact he will stand up at the end. So why maintain all the secrecy throughout the D&C, PoGP, and Book of Mormon regarding the identity of the OMAS / Rod of Jesse / Man Child / The one from Edom / The arm of the Lord / The Angel of the Lord who bears the ineffable name... And he who sitteth upon the throne?

If it were Michael it would be he who sitteth upon his throne. He earned this world the same way any man attains to the stewardship of a world. He wasn't placed in the Garden willy nilly. He and Eve walked into Eden with Celestial bodies the same way anyone earns a celestial body.

The revealing of the Son of Man, the revealing of the hidden angel would be no revelation at all of it were Michael! Can you imagine? Here comes the hidden angel in power and glory with all the holy angels.... And its Michael! Surprise! I mean who saw the chief archangel as a potential contender? Everyone knows Michael is the chief archangel.

It's not Michael. Michael does not give himself dominion in Daniel 7. The Angel of the Lord rescued Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Daniel already named the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7, and Michael in Daniel 10. Why hide the identity of the one who rescues Daniel's compatriots if that were also Michael? In Daniel 10, Michael is helping the Angel of the Lord. That would be a great chapter to study and pray over.

Discourse on Abbaton doesn't magically confirm our unique doctrines restored by Joseph Smith and then get the one who sitteth upon the throne incorrect. Neither does 1 Enoch, 3 Enoch, or The Apocalypse of Abraham - all of which differentiate Michael from the Angel of the Lord.
If you don't know what the passive voice is I'd be happy to do full breakdown without rubbing your nose in it.
No thank you. I've had enough!

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

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Here is a conversation between Daniel and The Angel of the Lord:

Daniel 10:18 Then there came again and touched me (Daniel) one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,

19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.

20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


There is none that holdeth with me in these things? What is he holding but the scepter of power, and what are these things but the dominion of the Michael? This is he who sitteth upon the throne of Michael. Here is how Daniel describes him earlier in the chapter:

Daniel 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:

6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.


Here is the description of the Angel of the Lord, Jahoel, who is expressly not Michael from The Apocalypse of Abraham:

8. And I rose up and saw him who had grasped me by the right hand and set me upon my feet, and the appearance of his body was like sapphire, and the look of his countenance like crysolite, and the hair of his head like snow, and the turban on his head like the appearance of the rainbow, and the clothing of his garments like purple, and a golden sceptre was in his right hand,

Here is the description of Abbadon from the Discourse on Abbaton

"Thine eye and thy face shall he like unto a wheel of fire which beareth waves and waves [of fire] before me.

Here is the description of the Angel of the Lord from 3 Enoch, who again, is expressly not Michael in this work:

As soon as the Holy One, blessed be He, took me in (His) service to attend the Throne of Glory
and the Wheels (Galgallim) of the Merkaba and the needs of Shekina, forthwith my flesh was
changed into flames, my sinews into flaming fire, my bones into coals of burning juniper, the light
of my eye-lids into splendour of lightnings, my eye-balls into fire-brands
, the hair of my head into
dot flames, all my limbs into wings of burning fire and the whole of my body into glowing fire.


The glory and the authority of the unnamed Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is baffling to Christianity. Most try to shoehorn him into Jesus' identity. The fact this angel is holy, has glory, and sometimes appears to speak for himself rather than Jehovah ... of course that would be confusing to those who believe the Trinity is all the same person. At one point the Angel pleads with Jehovah to have mercy on Jerusalem.

Edit: I knew I had read somewhere else about the Holy Ghost's eyes being a flame of fire:

Revelation 19:
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Last edited by Alaris on July 16th, 2019, 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

simpleton wrote: July 16th, 2019, 7:11 am Just to get somewhat of an idea how this "OMAS controversy" has been going on for, well, almost a couple centuries now. Read this partial list of claimants in wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

I've seen or rather heard of many claimants throughout my whole life and it has not slowed down one iota. I think that Mr Diablo has been very earnestly and actively engaged in trying (quite successfully) to muddy and darken the waters in regards to the knowledge of this OMAS/DK/DS, as it is this individual, IMO that chains him and casts him into prison. Besides wresting control of this earth back from him.
And as men in the flesh are quite proud and have an innate desire to be something and/or somebody of renown, full of pride, love to receive the praise of this world, love to receive rewards, love to have badges pinned upon us, love to have society speak well if us, love to be called good, always wanting to excel one above another, etc. we just give the adversary a whole field of millions of potential candidates to deceive "even the very elect if it were possible".
Again, I think that having the knowledge of, or identity of this OMAS/DS/DK will eventually reach a point that it will become a matter of life and death. As in the direct acceptance of who He actually is or is not. " My sheep know My Voice and a false shepard they will not follow". Which indicates that the true sheep will follow His Voice. And that ,IMO, will apply to this coming Deliverer, Shepard that we are talking about.
According to Lehi's dream, it seems that the vast majority of mankind refuse to fully follow the True Shepard, as most of us cannot stand to have the finger of scorn pointed at us. And that seems to be the dividing line. If we cannot learn to abase ourselves here on earth, to be a nobody, as did Christ, we will never be His sheep. " Call no man good" says the good Shepard, but the Father in heaven. But we love to praise man and recieve praise and pin awards and metals and ribbons upon each other. That is a very distinguishing characteristic that defines whether a person is with God or against Him. A man of God will completely rebuke praise directed to him, whereas if we are in the devil's camp we will soak it up. But, it can be repented of, but first we have to recognize it.
So yes, OMAS's come and go it seems by the hundreds, non stop so far, but I figure at the very most only one can be right. But I do not know who it is yet, but someday hope to.
Thank you for the fantastic comment. I was going to mention the "voice" aspect of the Angel of the Lord, so I'm very grateful for you bringing this up.

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.


The voice of the Lord is one of the titles of the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament as is "The Mouth of the Lord" - which makes sense. As Aaron is the mouthpiece of Moses, so is the Angel the mouthpiece of Jehovah - that key is given in Exodus 4 iirc.

Compare John 10 above to Isaiah 40 and Isaiah 63

Isaiah 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

Isaiah 63:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

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Re: The Son of Man

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Alaris wrote: July 16th, 2019, 11:20 am Here is a conversation between Daniel and The Angel of the Lord:

Daniel 10:18 Then there came again and touched me (Daniel) one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,

19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.

20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


There is none that holdeth with me in these things? What is he holding but the scepter of power, and what are these things but the dominion of the Michael? This is he who sitteth upon the throne of Michael. Here is how Daniel describes him earlier in the chapter:

Daniel 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:

6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
I remember us discussing these scriptures roughly a year ago. The “man in linen” is so obviously Jesus Christ, not the Angel of the LORD. This was my response:
abijah wrote:July 31st, 2018, 10:33 pmin order for this interpretation to work, the “certain man clothed on linen” must needs be the davidic servant. again i disagree. surely you’ll say “he is unnamed!”. yeah, well so was jesus at this point. just look at this description daniel gives, and the description john gives of christ in revelation 1:
clothed in linen
the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot


whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz
and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.


and his eyes as lamps of fire
his eyes were as a flame of fire


and his feet like in colour to polished brass
And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace


and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude
and his voice as the sound of many waters.


so john doesnt mention beryl...

i dont think this personage is the davidic servant, but christ.
The unnamed man is obviously Jesus. And later in verse ten, there is zero evidence to suggest that this unnamed individual speaking with, and ultimately strengthening Daniel is the Angel of the LORD. Much more likely it’s Gabriel, who is already present in the narrative, as well as the wordplay at the end with the conversant angel “giving strength” to Daniel, the name Gabriel meaning “strength of God”. Plus, Michael & Gabriel are often considered as something of a duo, which is especially reflected in the Book of Daniel.

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Re: The Son of Man

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Doesn’t the discourse of Abbaton present Michael and Adam as entirely separate individuals?

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Re: The Son of Man

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abijah wrote: July 16th, 2019, 12:07 pm Doesn’t the discourse of Abbaton present Michael and Adam as entirely separate individuals?
It doesn't connect them, but it does label Michael and Gabriel as the number one and two chief archangels. Adam is seated upon a throne and then vacates it with the fall. The eighth angel then sits upon the throne. I've been saying since the beginning that Michael is first in authority and the Davidic Servant is eighth. What a "coincidence" the Discourse on Abbaton is.

The one who goes to Michael for help with the Prince of Persia in Daniel 10 cannot be Jesus as Jesus doesn't go to Michael as His power and dominion is vastly greater than Michael. You said there's zero evidence but I just demonstrated the overlaps in descriptions of the Angel of the Lord in Daniel 10... The Apocalypse of Abraham is particularly close. That Apocryphon, like the Discourse on Abbaton, also confirms many unique modern revelations as well as the Book of Abraham. They both attest to Michael and the Angel of the Lord being separate as does 1 Enoch and 3 Enoch.

So much of the Apocrypha... Just what I've read so far... Confirms that this eighth angel is hidden... To be revealed at the end. Surprise it was Michael makes no sense whatsoever when he is name dropped all over the standard works and the Apocrypha... And he's separated from the angel in all these sources. D&C 88 separates them. "Surprise the eighth angel we didn't number is also the seventh!" 🤔

The last shall be first and the first last also applies to the Angel of the Lord and Michael. The angel who is often called "another angel" (which also translates to "the other angel") is the one who kicks off the end times by throwing the the censer to the earth. Seven angels are on standby. So there are eight angels here and Michael is among the seven.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.


Uncoincidentally the altar, the incense, and the one holding the golden censer all point to the office of High Priest of Israel... And that office points to the Holy Ghost.

The Angel of Revelation 10 is this same angel... And again the seven stand behind him

Revelation 10:1 And I saw another (the other) mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


There's that word mighty again. In Revelation 11, the seventh angel, Michael, sounds his Trump. Michael is not this other angel who is in fact the central character of Revelation...whose exaltation causes John to worship the angel who delivers the message who Jehovah calls "Mine angel."

There is literally a mountain of evidence that continues to grow that shows the eighth angel is sitting upon the throne of Michael. The Discourse on Abbaton alludes to the seven angels passing on their right to rule to eighth as through it were ceremony. The seven sons of Jesse standing before Samuel who believes Eliab must be the Lords anointed given his stature is clearly a symbol of Michael himself. David, the eighth son and younger isn't even present among them... Signifying a difference in level. The seven archangels all pass their right to rule to the eighth son.

This younger son receiving the anointing of apostle and or king is so prevalent all across our standard works. Yet Adam is first born into the world. Might the right of the first born passing from the eldest to a younger brother be a symbol of Michael and the Holy Ghost? Yeah verily.

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Re: The Son of Man

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Here's yet another evidence the Angel of the Lord - whose name is hidden (as if that weren't evidence enough) - isn't Michael.

In Revelation 11, John give a crucial key to unlock the mystery of the two witnesses. The Lord, through Joseph Smith, gave us another. Follow me here.

We know per D&C 113 that the Rod of a Jesse has the birthright of Jesse and is in fact a "servant" in the hands of Christ (the servant is hidden in the shadow of the hand of Jehovah in Isaiah 49) on whom is laid much power. Well, D&C 113 is a reference to Isaiah 11, where some of that power is detailed:

Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

The Rod slays the wicked by the breath of his lips. Sound familiar?

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


So the two witnesses have this same power. I do not believe it a coincidence that D&C 113 says the Root of Jesse is another individual, though the bloodlines are cited slightly differently. The root and rod are of Jesse - they are two, just as there are two witnesses (see the "Lesser Parable of the Wizard" thread on how the servant is a witness)

With me so far?

OK now let's look at this critically important key from John in understanding the two witnesses. In fact, he gives it in the verse that precedes the verse above - almost like he was knowingly giving two keys of understanding here. One links to Isaiah 11, and one links to Zechariah 4. The benefit of modern revelation acts as another key in D&C 113.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

The root of Jesse and the rod of Jesse .. wow they are both tree metaphors! Let's look at Zechariah and we can see how the Rod of Jesse indeed is not Michael - no way, no how.

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.


Seven candlesticks - and two olive trees. We know the two olive trees point to the two witnesses. What do the seven candlesticks represent? The Angel of the Lord (of all people) gives the answer to Zechariah:


Lest we forget what this is all about, the Angel of the Lord gives some other keys of understanding:

4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.


So this vision pertains to the Holy Spirit. Hrm ... So who are these seven candlesticks and the two trees who are the two witnesses?

Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11 ¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth


So we have the seven spirits of the Lord who are described as the eyes of the Lord, and we have the two anointed ones with yet another family tree metaphor. The menorah itself points to Michael as the center, chief candlestick. Here's an image of the vision of Zechariah 4 with some helper commentary.

Zechariah4-Angel_of_the_Lord.png
Zechariah4-Angel_of_the_Lord.png (797.16 KiB) Viewed 1587 times

So if one of the two witnesses is the eighth being in authority ... hrm notice how the two trees flank the outer edges of the seven golden candlesticks...almost like they are eighth and ninth. Let's return to Revelation with all this in mind.

Bear in mind this all happens between the sixth (the level from whence comes the Davidic Servant) to the seventh (the level of the Archangels) trumpets.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

15 And the seventh angel (Michael) sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; (anointed one) and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


The ark is seen in heaven. The actual fulfillment of Yom Kippur where the Lord's Christ ascends to God to become a pillar in the temple of God and receive the name of God and the new name of Jesus Christ. This is the sixth promised reward of overcoming given to those seraphim who overcome and join the order of the seven "golden" archangels.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The presence and proximity to the father is the exclusive reward of the patriarchs as demonstrated by 14 year old Joseph Smith who is undoubtedly one of the seven.
Last edited by Alaris on July 16th, 2019, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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