The Son of Man

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?

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nightlight
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Posts: 8407

Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".

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Michael Sherwin
The Wickerman
Posts: 1984

Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.

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Alaris
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Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
Great response Michael. Moreover, I don't think the elect rejects the Davidic Servant. They are gathered to him. I believe that's what is meant in Matthew 24 where two are in the field and one is taken. I highly recommend reading 2 Esdras 13...this chapter immediately follows the Ezras eagle prophecy which I agree is about the end of the USA.

The statement about the elect being deceived says were it possible...they would be deceived. On one hand they are gathered due to the covenants they made from the foundation of the world. On another the law is written on their hearts. Elect means chosen.... So I believe this is they who have their calling and ELECTion made sure.

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nightlight
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Posts: 8407

Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.

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Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 9:40 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:

This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.
Notice how the servant is marred because of them rather than by them.
3 Nephi 21
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil


Cursed pronouns. Who is them? Prior verses speak of Israel and gentiles.

The verses that follow speak of Israel including the lost tribes.

The elect are the remnant of all twelve tribes who are elect according to the covenant.

That last phrase is exclusive to Joseph Smith Matthew

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.


What if one witness says the other is The witness or the testator incarnate? How might Christianity feel about that? I joined a catholic forum to ask a member about his conclusion that the angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost. Let's just say I, who identified myself as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (this was probably before PN told us to stop saying Mormon) was not made to feel welcome. Neither were my ideas. But I will say I've gotten far more vitriol from fellow "saints."

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Michael Sherwin
The Wickerman
Posts: 1984

Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 9:40 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:

This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.
I agree that there is only one name by which a person can be saved. But it is not as simple as Christianity makes it out to be. Jesus delegates his name and his power to the man child.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


And this is no ordinary anointing because the man child receives the same anointing that Jesus received when he became the only begotten.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


The man child thus becomes begotten.

The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before the church.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The Church is born when her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The man child receives a new name.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The next time Jesus comes he only comes near.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment;

Jesus has the man child send his angels. (if he is sitting on Michael's throne (Alaris) then the man child will command the angels)

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And all the above leaves the next passage below open to interpretation.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus received a "promotion". Is there a new Lord, a begotten one, that has been put in charge of the resurrection that lifts us up to meet the LORD in the air that we may always be with the LORD.

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nightlight
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 11:35 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 9:40 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm

This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.
I agree that there is only one name by which a person can be saved. But it is not as simple as Christianity makes it out to be. Jesus delegates his name and his power to the man child.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


And this is no ordinary anointing because the man child receives the same anointing that Jesus received when he became the only begotten.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


The man child thus becomes begotten.

The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before the church.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The Church is born when her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The man child receives a new name.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The next time Jesus comes he only comes near.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment;

Jesus has the man child send his angels. (if he is sitting on Michael's throne (Alaris) then the man child will command the angels)

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And all the above leaves the next passage below open to interpretation.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus received a "promotion". Is there a new Lord, a begotten one, that has been put in charge of the resurrection that lifts us up to meet the LORD in the air that we may always be with the LORD.
How would Christ delegate His Atonment??? What do you mean?

Those scriptures describe a prince/temp savior...but Christ can't delegate His Atonment. It doesn't work like that, His news is simple. The DS is a fellow servant, this is why he pick John up when he worships him. Christ accepts those who worship at His feet because He is the Only Begotten of the Father.
If the DS is the Holy Ghost, which I think he is the head of the Holy Ghost, then his mission is purley one of Testimony . He will come testifying of Jesus Christ, he will preach that all men must come into Christ. He comes as a Witness


41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

How does the Holy Ghost sanctify if there is no relegation of Atoning power?

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by simpleton »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Why did the Jews reject Jesus, who Himself did mighty miracles in front of them? They rejected the very Man in person that could save them, so also are the servants rejected that do miracles in His name. And even in Joseph's day, it seems most fell away even after seeing mighty miracles. And why, because of pride and the desire to be somebody rather than just simply go forward in the humility of Christ, walking in the plain low road.
IMO, this DS is rejected, actually I think the DS has already been rejected long ago, along the identical lines that the Saviour was rejected. When I say long ago, I am thinking the last 120 years.
This DS binds satan with chains and throws him into the pit. So satan has done, and is doing everything in his power to thwart this DS and the belief in Him. Satan rages against the doctrine and any idea of this DS. Nevertheless it is true, He does exist, and He will be the designated means of delivering Gods people in the last days from the grasps of the adversary, and many many other things that we can't comprehend.

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by righteousrepublic »

The Son of Man is Jesus Christ. He evens says so, himself. Why all the suspense?

Matt 16
13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say aye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 12
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

righteousrepublic wrote: July 26th, 2019, 10:28 am The Son of Man is Jesus Christ. He evens says so, himself. Why all the suspense?

Matt 16
13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say aye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 12
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Beautiful scripture - thank you for sharing. What if there are two sons and two fathers in the Godhead? What if "Son of Man" is a title that applies to both sons? That would match the duality of Isaiah where Jehovah and "his servant" are both juxtaposed in the Davidic Covenant. Might that be why the Lord commanded us to study diligently the words of Isaiah - and why He spoke so much of His servant to the Nephites? And why He referred to the "Son of Man" rather than Himself? He is rather intelligent after all. ;)

How's your Isaiah study coming along?
Last edited by Alaris on July 26th, 2019, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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righteousrepublic
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by righteousrepublic »

Jesus Christ, Son of Man

one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, Dan. 7:13 (Rev. 1:13; 14:14).

Son of man hath power on earth, Matt. 9:6 (Mark 2:10; Luke 5:24).

shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come, Matt. 10:23 (25:13; Luke 18:8; D&C 58:65).

Son of man came eating and drinking, Matt. 11:19 (Luke 7:34).

Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath, Matt. 12:8 (Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5).

whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, Matt. 12:32 (Luke 12:10).

shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in … the earth, Matt. 12:40.

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man, Matt. 13:37.

Son of man shall send forth his angels, Matt. 13:41.

Whom do men say that I the Son of man am, Matt. 16:13.

Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, Matt. 16:27.

not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming, Matt. 16:28 (24:27, 37, 39; Mark 13:26; D&C 45:39; 61:38; 63:53; 64:23; 68:11; 130:14, 17).

Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen, Matt. 17:9 (Mark 9:9).

Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them, Matt. 17:12 (Mark 8:31; Luke 9:22).

Son of man shall be betrayed, Matt. 17:22 (20:18; 26:2, 24, 45; Mark 14:21, 41; Luke 22:22, 48).

Son of man is come to save that which was lost, Matt. 18:11 (Luke 19:10).

when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Matt. 19:28.

as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, Matt. 20:28 (Mark 10:45).

appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Matt. 24:30.

see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, Matt. 24:30 (Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27).

see the Son of man sitting on the right hand, Matt. 26:64 (Mark 14:62; Luke 22:69).

of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, Mark 8:38 (Luke 9:26).

written of the Son of man, that he must suffer, Mark 9:12.

Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, Mark 9:31 (10:33; Luke 9:44; 24:7).

cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake, Luke 6:22.

Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, Luke 9:56.

Son of man hath not where to lay his head, Luke 9:58.

as Jonas was a sign … so shall also the Son of man be, Luke 11:30.

him shall the Son of man also confess, Luke 12:8.

Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not, Luke 12:40.

ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, Luke 17:22.

lightning … so shall also the Son of man be, Luke 17:24.

days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man, Luke 17:26.

thus shall it be … when the Son of man is revealed, Luke 17:30.

all things … concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished, Luke 18:31.

accounted worthy … to stand before the Son of man, Luke 21:36.

no man hath ascended up to heaven, but … the Son of man, John 3:13 (8:28; 12:34).

as Moses lifted … so must the Son of man be lifted up, John 3:14.

execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man, John 5:27.

everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give, John 6:27.

Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, John 6:53.

if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up, John 6:62.

hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified, John 12:23 (13:31).

What is … the son of man, that thou visitest him, Heb. 2:6.

in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, Rev. 1:13.

done unto the Son of Man even as they listed, D&C 49:6.

Son of Man cometh not in the form of a woman, D&C 49:22.

Son of Man shall come down in heaven, clothed in the brightness of his glory, D&C 65:5.

those who shall hear the voice of the Son of Man, D&C 76:16.

build a house … that the Son of Man might have a place to manifest himself, D&C 109:5.

Son of Man hath descended below them all, D&C 122:8.

if thou livest … thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man, D&C 130:15.

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

simpleton wrote: July 26th, 2019, 10:00 am
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 7:48 pm
Alaris wrote: July 25th, 2019, 4:05 pm I usually only post stuff I'm more certain about or connections I've made, and I leave the offline conversations alone - yet I feel I should share this as well.

With the recent understanding that the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is largely (if not exclusively) the heir of Jesus Christ rather than He Himself - I'm trying to piece together sequence--something I've admitted I haven't spent a great deal of time on. I was asked by a friend about how things will unfold: Here is my reply to him which is basically just my thoughts:
*Mein fren,*

I appreciate your thoughtful questions - I've been pondering this over the past few days regarding timing and the two witnesses.

The two witnesses will have opposition as they testify during their two years. Though we don't know who exactly will be opposing them, we know from Rev 11 that "any man" who will hurt them will be destroyed by the fire of their mouths.

We know from Isaiah 11 that it is the "wicked" who are destroyed by the breath of the lips of the Rod of Jesse.

Is that Jews? Christians? Muslims?

I try to focus on these details to help determine when. We know the Rod will be made bare to all nations (D&C 133 - make bare my holy arm - also in Isaiah + son of man coming in the clouds + who is this wearing red) etc. - so it stands to reason that nobody knows who the holy arm is before he's revealed to everyone--in fact Matthew 24's message is to the elect - do not believe anyone who says that Christ (anointed one) is in the secret chamber or in the desert.

Yet the two witnesses will be seen lying dead in the streets seen by all ...

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

I guess it's possible that the Lord making bare his holy arm in the clouds of glory happens right after this - right after he ascends. He may be hidden by the fact there are two witnesses as silly as that seems. However, based off my recent studies - especially 2 Esdras 13 - I get the feeling that the great sign of the coming of the son of man happens first.

So how could the wicked resist someone who literally appears in the sky and breaths fire? Well, firstly the two witnesses breath fire and they're still opposed. They are protected from harm for 3.5 years. Jesus raised the dead and healed the sick - and the wicked said he did so by the power of the devil. See what I mean?

The proud are expecting end times events to unfold in a certain way. Evangelicals can't stop talking about the rapture which they think happens first. So what if the great sign appears first? What if a nation is literally born in a day per Isaiah 66?

Anyone who shows up working miracles who isn't Jesus -- most christians will immediately assume he's the antichrist unless they've enlisted the holy spirit as their guide (irony of ironies.)

Muslims will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus and doesn't praise Allah or Mohammed.

Jews will reject anyone who comes in the name of Jesus.

So if a person who is not Jesus who the christians think is the antichrist - who comes in the name of Jesus - see what I mean? He will literally be rejected by every major group even if he comes in power and glory first.

That all said, I don't know yet - hahaha :)

I'll be studying this next, but my main thought is this: "What will the two witnesses be preaching / prophesying?" One will say the other is the Holy Ghost incarnate - how will that news be received? Very poorly. The other will say Jesus will return and prepare the way by building ZION - well both will be saying that obviously but one will likely not witness of himself as being the Holy Ghost. The point is - what these guys will be saying will literally piss off every major religion. "How can the Holy Ghost and Jesus be separate? Blasphemy!" "How can Jesus be the Son of God? Blaspemy!" "How can you say Israel doesn't include the children of Ishmael? Blasphemy!"

I think Ezekiel is a good place for me to study next - the prince is supposed to enter Jerusalem through the eastern gate. Yet at some point the Lord appears on the mount of olives and cracks it open. The wounds of the hands are only mentioned (3rd and 4th tokens in the temple) so this could be a new patriarch whose witness is sealed by such wounds. This to me says this is post rejection / death / resurrection of the two witnesses. I'm also wondering if there's a sign of the son of man - and then later does he return in glory in the heavens?
This doesn't make sense to me....
Why would anyone reject a man who does miracles in the name of Jesus Christ? It is part of the doctrine that followers of Jesus will do the same works He did (& even greater).
There has to be another reason the DS is rejected by many of the "elect".
Why did the Jews reject Jesus, who Himself did mighty miracles in front of them? They rejected the very Man in person that could save them, so also are the servants rejected that do miracles in His name. And even in Joseph's day, it seems most fell away even after seeing mighty miracles. And why, because of pride and the desire to be somebody rather than just simply go forward in the humility of Christ, walking in the plain low road.
IMO, this DS is rejected, actually I think the DS has already been rejected long ago, along the identical lines that the Saviour was rejected. When I say long ago, I am thinking the last 120 years.
This DS binds satan with chains and throws him into the pit. So satan has done, and is doing everything in his power to thwart this DS and the belief in Him. Satan rages against the doctrine and any idea of this DS. Nevertheless it is true, He does exist, and He will be the designated means of delivering Gods people in the last days from the grasps of the adversary, and many many other things that we can't comprehend.
You're not wrong... but i think his rejection will have to do with his counterpart, who will wonder the world...

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by righteousrepublic »

What Think Ye of Christ?


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nightlight
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

righteousrepublic wrote: July 26th, 2019, 11:28 am Jesus Christ, Son of Man

one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, Dan. 7:13 (Rev. 1:13; 14:14).

Son of man hath power on earth, Matt. 9:6 (Mark 2:10; Luke 5:24).

shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come, Matt. 10:23 (25:13; Luke 18:8; D&C 58:65).

Son of man came eating and drinking, Matt. 11:19 (Luke 7:34).

Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath, Matt. 12:8 (Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5).

whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, Matt. 12:32 (Luke 12:10).

shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in … the earth, Matt. 12:40.

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man, Matt. 13:37.

Son of man shall send forth his angels, Matt. 13:41.

Whom do men say that I the Son of man am, Matt. 16:13.

Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, Matt. 16:27.

not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming, Matt. 16:28 (24:27, 37, 39; Mark 13:26; D&C 45:39; 61:38; 63:53; 64:23; 68:11; 130:14, 17).

Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen, Matt. 17:9 (Mark 9:9).

Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them, Matt. 17:12 (Mark 8:31; Luke 9:22).

Son of man shall be betrayed, Matt. 17:22 (20:18; 26:2, 24, 45; Mark 14:21, 41; Luke 22:22, 48).

Son of man is come to save that which was lost, Matt. 18:11 (Luke 19:10).

when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Matt. 19:28.

as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, Matt. 20:28 (Mark 10:45).

appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Matt. 24:30.

see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, Matt. 24:30 (Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27).

see the Son of man sitting on the right hand, Matt. 26:64 (Mark 14:62; Luke 22:69).

of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, Mark 8:38 (Luke 9:26).

written of the Son of man, that he must suffer, Mark 9:12.

Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, Mark 9:31 (10:33; Luke 9:44; 24:7).

cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake, Luke 6:22.

Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, Luke 9:56.

Son of man hath not where to lay his head, Luke 9:58.

as Jonas was a sign … so shall also the Son of man be, Luke 11:30.

him shall the Son of man also confess, Luke 12:8.

Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not, Luke 12:40.

ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, Luke 17:22.

lightning … so shall also the Son of man be, Luke 17:24.

days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man, Luke 17:26.

thus shall it be … when the Son of man is revealed, Luke 17:30.

all things … concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished, Luke 18:31.

accounted worthy … to stand before the Son of man, Luke 21:36.

no man hath ascended up to heaven, but … the Son of man, John 3:13 (8:28; 12:34).

as Moses lifted … so must the Son of man be lifted up, John 3:14.

execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man, John 5:27.

everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give, John 6:27.

Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, John 6:53.

if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up, John 6:62.

hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified, John 12:23 (13:31).

What is … the son of man, that thou visitest him, Heb. 2:6.

in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, Rev. 1:13.

done unto the Son of Man even as they listed, D&C 49:6.

Son of Man cometh not in the form of a woman, D&C 49:22.

Son of Man shall come down in heaven, clothed in the brightness of his glory, D&C 65:5.

those who shall hear the voice of the Son of Man, D&C 76:16.

build a house … that the Son of Man might have a place to manifest himself, D&C 109:5.

Son of Man hath descended below them all, D&C 122:8.

if thou livest … thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man, D&C 130:15.
Everyone knows Jesus is the Son of man...but it's possible that Jesus calls his Last Phrophe "son of man", who, imo, was His first Phrophet.

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Alaris
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

Jesus also calls Ezekiel son of man in Ezekiel 37, which is coincidentally all about the Davidic Servant. In fact, Ezekiel is called son of man and then told to command the valley of dried bones to take upon them flesh again.... This valley is referenced in Discourse on Abbaton as well and is called Yahoshaphat or Yahu judges. Yahu may very well be the ineffable name or a symbol of it as referenced in Exodus 23. Yahoel is the name of the Angel of the Lord in now 3 Apocryphal works that I've found so far

The first resurrection is accomplished by the angel of D&C 88. This is the Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost.

His parting the red sea is a powerful metaphor of the first resurrection whereby the elect only are raised unto their promised rewards and promises inheritances (promised land)

9 ¶ Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?


9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 ¶ But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the Lord caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 8:46 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 11:35 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 9:40 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 8:00 pm

Because Christians in general are not looking for anyone other than the antichrist unless Jesus comes in the clouds to wisp them away first. So if someone with great powers does show up it has to be the antichrist. And most Christians never heard of the Davidic Servant that is to come. And to them Christ only means one person only, Jesus. Try to tell them that christ means anointed and that an anointed one will come before the end and they are totally baffled and immediately say Jesus is the only anointed one. And those few that do see a Davidic Servant they say it was Jesus. That wall is so thick and impenetrable that it must be part of the strong delusion.
If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.
I agree that there is only one name by which a person can be saved. But it is not as simple as Christianity makes it out to be. Jesus delegates his name and his power to the man child.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


And this is no ordinary anointing because the man child receives the same anointing that Jesus received when he became the only begotten.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


The man child thus becomes begotten.

The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before the church.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The Church is born when her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The man child receives a new name.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The next time Jesus comes he only comes near.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment;

Jesus has the man child send his angels. (if he is sitting on Michael's throne (Alaris) then the man child will command the angels)

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And all the above leaves the next passage below open to interpretation.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus received a "promotion". Is there a new Lord, a begotten one, that has been put in charge of the resurrection that lifts us up to meet the LORD in the air that we may always be with the LORD.
How would Christ delegate His Atonment??? What do you mean?

Those scriptures describe a prince/temp savior...but Christ can't delegate His Atonment. It doesn't work like that, His news is simple. The DS is a fellow servant, this is why he pick John up when he worships him. Christ accepts those who worship at His feet because He is the Only Begotten of the Father.
If the DS is the Holy Ghost, which I think he is the head of the Holy Ghost, then his mission is purley one of Testimony . He will come testifying of Jesus Christ, he will preach that all men must come into Christ. He comes as a Witness


41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It says that by no other name can man be saved. But, the man child has that name written upon him. And the atonement is not for our sin as is taught. The atonement is for the original transgression. That work has been done. It is finished. Now we can be saved because of Jesus' death on the cross. The question then becomes if we are worthy to be chosen to be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. Will we be chosen and made immortal at the first resurrection? Or will we receive terrestrial type bodies at the first resurrection and then be killed for our testimony of Christ. And then given new white robes which means a celestial type body.

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nightlight
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 26th, 2019, 12:51 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 8:46 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 11:35 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 25th, 2019, 9:40 pm

If there is a DS ,which I believe there is, he will not come in his own name. When adopted by Christ (being born again)...you take His name, so yes...we become/inherit Christ and His name. That being said...there is only one name that can save a man. Any who tell you different are liars or puppets. Any man who comes not in His name is not of Him.

"and he employeth no servant there;...."

So....some cat shows up and start doing mighty things in the name of Jesus Christ, declaring faith and repentance in the name of Jesus Christ.....how will this cause him to be marred by us, as Isaiah says? Doesn't make sense to me, we are missing something, imo.


Also, imo,the elect are those who are given the fullness of the gospel, those who are born or convert to the church of Jesus Christ. If you believe Jesus restored His Order through Joseph Smith......then you must understand this to be them, just like Israel of old. "

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Either the above is true....or it's not. If you believe the scrip, you must understand you are the elect.
I agree that there is only one name by which a person can be saved. But it is not as simple as Christianity makes it out to be. Jesus delegates his name and his power to the man child.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


And this is no ordinary anointing because the man child receives the same anointing that Jesus received when he became the only begotten.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


The man child thus becomes begotten.

The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before the church.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The Church is born when her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The man child receives a new name.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The next time Jesus comes he only comes near.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment;

Jesus has the man child send his angels. (if he is sitting on Michael's throne (Alaris) then the man child will command the angels)

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And all the above leaves the next passage below open to interpretation.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus received a "promotion". Is there a new Lord, a begotten one, that has been put in charge of the resurrection that lifts us up to meet the LORD in the air that we may always be with the LORD.
How would Christ delegate His Atonment??? What do you mean?

Those scriptures describe a prince/temp savior...but Christ can't delegate His Atonment. It doesn't work like that, His news is simple. The DS is a fellow servant, this is why he pick John up when he worships him. Christ accepts those who worship at His feet because He is the Only Begotten of the Father.
If the DS is the Holy Ghost, which I think he is the head of the Holy Ghost, then his mission is purley one of Testimony . He will come testifying of Jesus Christ, he will preach that all men must come into Christ. He comes as a Witness


41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It says that by no other name can man be saved. But, the man child has that name written upon him. And the atonement is not for our sin as is taught. The atonement is for the original transgression. That work has been done. It is finished. Now we can be saved because of Jesus' death on the cross. The question then becomes if we are worthy to be chosen to be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. Will we be chosen and made immortal at the first resurrection? Or will we receive terrestrial type bodies at the first resurrection and then be killed for our testimony of Christ. And then given new white robes which means a celestial type body.
I believe the Holy Ghost has taught me different.
Nobody is worthy, brother...I urge caution in your prusite of what is.

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Michael Sherwin
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 1:10 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 26th, 2019, 12:51 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 8:46 am
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 25th, 2019, 11:35 pm

I agree that there is only one name by which a person can be saved. But it is not as simple as Christianity makes it out to be. Jesus delegates his name and his power to the man child.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.


And this is no ordinary anointing because the man child receives the same anointing that Jesus received when he became the only begotten.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


The man child thus becomes begotten.

The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before the church.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The Church is born when her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The man child receives a new name.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The next time Jesus comes he only comes near.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment;

Jesus has the man child send his angels. (if he is sitting on Michael's throne (Alaris) then the man child will command the angels)

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And all the above leaves the next passage below open to interpretation.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus received a "promotion". Is there a new Lord, a begotten one, that has been put in charge of the resurrection that lifts us up to meet the LORD in the air that we may always be with the LORD.
How would Christ delegate His Atonment??? What do you mean?

Those scriptures describe a prince/temp savior...but Christ can't delegate His Atonment. It doesn't work like that, His news is simple. The DS is a fellow servant, this is why he pick John up when he worships him. Christ accepts those who worship at His feet because He is the Only Begotten of the Father.
If the DS is the Holy Ghost, which I think he is the head of the Holy Ghost, then his mission is purley one of Testimony . He will come testifying of Jesus Christ, he will preach that all men must come into Christ. He comes as a Witness


41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It says that by no other name can man be saved. But, the man child has that name written upon him. And the atonement is not for our sin as is taught. The atonement is for the original transgression. That work has been done. It is finished. Now we can be saved because of Jesus' death on the cross. The question then becomes if we are worthy to be chosen to be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. Will we be chosen and made immortal at the first resurrection? Or will we receive terrestrial type bodies at the first resurrection and then be killed for our testimony of Christ. And then given new white robes which means a celestial type body.
I believe the Holy Ghost has taught me different.
Nobody is worthy, brother...I urge caution in your prusite of what is.
We are not worthy under the law! What I am saying is does Jesus consider us worthy TO BE CHOSEN. Two totally different situations. Two totally different applications of the word worthy. None of us is worthy to be saved from the point of view of the Father. However, because of the faithfulness of the Son the Father will give the Son all he ask of the Father. So being worthy in the eyes of the Father and being worthy in the eyes of the Son is two different things. So brother, you need to "up" your understanding.

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nightlight
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by nightlight »

Michael Sherwin wrote: July 26th, 2019, 1:19 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 1:10 pm
Michael Sherwin wrote: July 26th, 2019, 12:51 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 8:46 am

How would Christ delegate His Atonment??? What do you mean?

Those scriptures describe a prince/temp savior...but Christ can't delegate His Atonment. It doesn't work like that, His news is simple. The DS is a fellow servant, this is why he pick John up when he worships him. Christ accepts those who worship at His feet because He is the Only Begotten of the Father.
If the DS is the Holy Ghost, which I think he is the head of the Holy Ghost, then his mission is purley one of Testimony . He will come testifying of Jesus Christ, he will preach that all men must come into Christ. He comes as a Witness


41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
It says that by no other name can man be saved. But, the man child has that name written upon him. And the atonement is not for our sin as is taught. The atonement is for the original transgression. That work has been done. It is finished. Now we can be saved because of Jesus' death on the cross. The question then becomes if we are worthy to be chosen to be saved. Many are called but few are chosen. Will we be chosen and made immortal at the first resurrection? Or will we receive terrestrial type bodies at the first resurrection and then be killed for our testimony of Christ. And then given new white robes which means a celestial type body.
I believe the Holy Ghost has taught me different.
Nobody is worthy, brother...I urge caution in your prusite of what is.
We are not worthy under the law! What I am saying is does Jesus consider us worthy TO BE CHOSEN. Two totally different situations. Two totally different applications of the word worthy. None of us is worthy to be saved from the point of view of the Father. However, because of the faithfulness of the Son the Father will give the Son all he ask of the Father. So being worthy in the eyes of the Father and being worthy in the eyes of the Son is two different things. So brother, you need to "up" your understanding.
I try my best.

And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Michael Sherwin »


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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: July 26th, 2019, 1:47 pm I try my best.

And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
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Re: The Son of Man

Post by Alaris »

11 And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men, because of me.

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Re: The Son of Man

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Alaris wrote: July 23rd, 2019, 6:29 pm
The Apocalypse of Thomas coincidentally aligns these two numbers 6 and 8 - neither of which align to Michael.

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.
Interesting that an Angel Type Image appeared on my picture, taken during the six PM hour of the 8th day of March as shown at march8miracle.org.

The minute and second said pic was taken may or may not fit the pattern, depending on things such as local noon. The exact minute and second is known when Moroni landed his instrument.

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