The Last One To Go Out

[Michael Sherwin]

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

All seven Spirits of God at some point in time incarnate on earth. Spirits of God that incarnate are caught up to heaven in the sight of man. The last Spirit of God to incarnate is the one known as the man child. Jesus is one of the seven Spirits of God. Here we see his request to be reunited with the Father.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes is the manifestation of the Father in the creation. Jesus was "made" better than the other six Spirits of God.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

These angels are not the created angels because they are spirits. Spirit precedes the creation.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The Father created the visible universe through Jesus. That is why Jesus has the title of God. He is the God of creation.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Our God is Jesus because Jesus created us. But our God is also the Father because the Father created us through Jesus. And a most precious precept is that although the other six Spirits of God are of the Father just as Jesus is of the Father, Jesus becomes their God. How?

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Because Jesus sends them to incarnate and thus becomes their God. All seven Spirits of God are manifestations of the Father. However, Jesus becomes the God of the other six because only Jesus has the power to grant life on earth to the others.

At some point the man child will receive a great anointing.

Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Psalm 2:7-10 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

The man child will be God on earth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The man child is mighty and strong. The man child is an incarnation (avatar) of the Father. Etc. The man child is God on earth because of the anointing that he received from Jesus. The very same anointing that Jesus received from the Father that bestowed sonship and the power of life upon Jesus. And when the man child's mission is complete he will reunite with the Lamb and go no more out.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

[Durzan]

Where are you going with this? Posting random scriptures does nothing to produce a meaningful discussion. Explain why you posted these scriptures and what you are trying to discuss, please.

Also, can you please put the scriptures in quotes (or at least color them). Makes it easier to read.

Edit: Nevermind on putting the scriptures in quotes, its already taken care of.

[Michael Sherwin]

Where are you going with this? Posting random scriptures does nothing to produce a meaningful discussion. Explain why you posted these scriptures and what you are trying to discuss, please.

Also, can you please put the scriptures in quotes (or at least color them). Makes it easier to read.

First of all the scriptures are not random. Why would you say that? Are you undermining my post before even any discussion? That would be a typical apologist method of attack. So from the gitgo you are appearing hostile.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth! But this truth must be a problem for you. Did I contradict Church doctrine without realizing it? Apparently I did, thus your attacking style.

[gangbusters]

Where are you going with this? Posting random scriptures does nothing to produce a meaningful discussion. Explain why you posted these scriptures and what you are trying to discuss, please.

Also, can you please put the scriptures in quotes (or at least color them). Makes it easier to read.

First of all the scriptures are not random. Why would you say that? Are you undermining my post before even any discussion? That would be a typical apologist method of attack. So from the gitgo you are appearing hostile.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth! But this truth must be a problem for you. Did I contradict Church doctrine without realizing it? Apparently I did, thus your attacking style.

If I may offer a mediation: Durzan was not questioning the wisdom of the scriptures, only pointing out that posts should pose a question or position that fosters discussion so as not to clutter the board. We all appreciate your insight. However, my guess is if you are persistent, he will eventually give up the fight, as he has with trying to get kirtland r.m. to make more succinct subject headings, amiright, Durzan??

[Durzan]

Where are you going with this? Posting random scriptures does nothing to produce a meaningful discussion. Explain why you posted these scriptures and what you are trying to discuss, please.

Also, can you please put the scriptures in quotes (or at least color them). Makes it easier to read.

First of all the scriptures are not random. Why would you say that? Are you undermining my post before even any discussion? That would be a typical apologist method of attack. So from the gitgo you are appearing hostile.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth! But this truth must be a problem for you. Did I contradict Church doctrine without realizing it? Apparently I did, thus your attacking style.

If I may offer a mediation: Durzan was not questioning the wisdom of the scriptures, only pointing out that posts should pose a question or position that fosters discussion so as not to clutter the board. We all appreciate your insight. However, my guess is if you are persistent, he will eventually give up the fight, as he has with trying to get kirtland r.m. to make more succinct subject headings, amiright, Durzan??

Exactly. Bascially, I'm asking what the OP's thesis statement is, as without knowing that, it makes it very hard to have a discussion. Also, not putting the scriptures in quotes makes it harder to distinguish between scripture and his commentary.

[ampeterlin]

Agreed on all until the end.

My view of Revelation 3:12, is pertaining to all followers of Christ.

We will be given a new name from Christ and gathered in to the New Jerusalem, never to go back out to Babylon. We will receive His countenance and we come to the Father through Christ.

I used the KJV version:

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

[Michael Sherwin]

Where are you going with this? Posting random scriptures does nothing to produce a meaningful discussion. Explain why you posted these scriptures and what you are trying to discuss, please.

Also, can you please put the scriptures in quotes (or at least color them). Makes it easier to read.

First of all the scriptures are not random. Why would you say that? Are you undermining my post before even any discussion? That would be a typical apologist method of attack. So from the gitgo you are appearing hostile.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth! But this truth must be a problem for you. Did I contradict Church doctrine without realizing it? Apparently I did, thus your attacking style.

If I may offer a mediation: Durzan was not questioning the wisdom of the scriptures, only pointing out that posts should pose a question or position that fosters discussion so as not to clutter the board. We all appreciate your insight. However, my guess is if you are persistent, he will eventually give up the fight, as he has with trying to get kirtland r.m. to make more succinct subject headings, amiright, Durzan??

Exactly. Bascially, I'm asking what the OP's thesis statement is, as without knowing that, it makes it very hard to have a discussion. Also, not putting the scriptures in quotes makes it harder to distinguish between scripture and his commentary.

I think Alaric or I AM and others would understand my OP instantly as they have studied and posted along these lines before.

My focus was I suppose upon the man child and that he is an individual and not Jesus or the Church. That he is one of the 7 Spirits of God. That he is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. Beyond that I did not go. I could take it further and say the man child is the Davidic Servant which would be an obvious direction to take this. But that is not my purpose. My second focus was to describe how the Father or an avatar of the Father can become a "child" of Jesus. God can mean several things depending upon ones relationship in the creation. As I stated only Jesus has the power to bestow life on earth. When Jesus bestows a life experience to someone on earth he becomes that individuals God. My OP is new or at least newish and complicated. I'm not at all surprised that there will be some not able to understand easily what I'm showing that the Bible teaches.

[Michael Sherwin]

Agreed on all until the end.

My view of Revelation 3:12, is pertaining to all followers of Christ.

We will be given a new name from Christ and gathered in to the New Jerusalem, never to go back out to Babylon. We will receive His countenance and we come to the Father through Christ.

I used the KJV version:

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

It's cool. That is the accepted interpretation. Everything I say after this is IMO. Let's examine who "He" or "Him" is. The best starting point for this investigation is.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Most that have investigated this sign that allegedly appeared in the heavens on 9/23/2017 interpreted it as a 'movie'. That is why they focus on Jupiter- when it entered the 'womb' and ten months or so later exited the 'womb'. That is nothing more than human folly adding to the scripture. Those two passages above are not a 'movie'. It is a snapshot. A specific moment in time. That moment was 9/23/2017.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The second mistake that people make is believing that the woman is in travail to give birth to the man child. The third mistake is that the man child refers to Jesus or a corporate entity such as the Church. The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before she travails meaning that the man child is born before 9/23/2017.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

So if the man child is not the Church and the man child is not Jesus then who is he. He is the one that stands at the time of the sign of the woman.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

The woman that travailith IS THE SIGN. The one she brings forth is the man child. The man child is the one that stands.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

IMO, the man child is not what we have been taught.

[Davka]

Agreed on all until the end.

My view of Revelation 3:12, is pertaining to all followers of Christ.

We will be given a new name from Christ and gathered in to the New Jerusalem, never to go back out to Babylon. We will receive His countenance and we come to the Father through Christ.

I used the KJV version:

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

It's cool. That is the accepted interpretation. Everything I say after this is IMO. Let's examine who "He" or "Him" is. The best starting point for this investigation is.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Most that have investigated this sign that allegedly appeared in the heavens on 9/23/2017 interpreted it as a 'movie'. That is why they focus on Jupiter- when it entered the 'womb' and ten months or so later exited the 'womb'. That is nothing more than human folly adding to the scripture. Those two passages above are not a 'movie'. It is a snapshot. A specific moment in time. That moment was 9/23/2017.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The second mistake that people make is believing that the woman is in travail to give birth to the man child. The third mistake is that the man child refers to Jesus or a corporate entity such as the Church. The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before she travails meaning that the man child is born before 9/23/2017.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

So if the man child is not the Church and the man child is not Jesus then who is he. He is the one that stands at the time of the sign of the woman.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

The woman that travailith IS THE SIGN. The one she brings forth is the man child. The man child is the one that stands.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

IMO, the man child is not what we have been taught.

What is it that we have been taught?

[Durzan]

Some quick clarification:

• I am an English major; as such, the context, intention, and the presentation of your writing is very important to me... as each one of those things tells me a little bit about you and what you are trying to say. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING someone says can give me information about them... if I look hard enough.
• I am on the Autism Spectrum; specifically, I am an Aspie. As such, I have problems with socializing, even online. I tend to be rather blunt, and many of the posts that I write can come off in a manner that I may not have intended. Likewise, I can easily misread the intent of others, and the fact that communication over the internet is notoriously wonky certainly doesn't help.

I think Alaric or I AM and others would understand my OP instantly as they have studied and posted along these lines before.

They might, or they might not. As I said, it isn't quite clear what you are getting at just based on the scriptures and your brief commentaries alone. Even with that information, there are 1000 different ways you can tie those scriptures together, and many more questions you could be trying to answer, or arguments you could be trying to make.

This is why discussions like this often annoy the heck out of me. The OPs where the bulk of (or the entire) post that is taken up by scripture quotes and vauge commentary, leaves the author's intent up to the interpretation of the reader. This doesn't work, and only serves to confuse the readers.

What could be an interesting discussion has no legs to stand on because nobody knows exactly what the OP is getting at, as the reader can draw thousands of different conclusions on the Author's intent from the little information given to them, and have no idea what kind of conversation the Author is trying to have in the first place. On top of that, with the author's intentions being so vauge and so very few people comment or reply... or outright assume the person has nefarious or mischievous intent and treat the OP accordingly.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

Well, first off, I wasn't attacking the validity of your post. Its kinda hard to attack the validity of an assertion or argument, when its not clear what the argument or assertion you are making is. Of course, now that you told me that, it makes it easier to actually have a discussion.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth!

Unfortunately, when you said this, it really didn't tell me anything. Anytime someone quotes a scripture, biblical truth is indeed revealed. Now, whether or not your commentary on each scripture is truth or not, is up for debate (not gonna touch that line of argument with a 10 foot pole, as 9/10 times it only leads to flaring tempers), and ultimately beside the point.

As I said before, any random schmuck can quote scriptures and tie them together or give some commentary on them, but unless there is a reason and underlying purpose behind doing so, its basically pointless. You quoted many different scriptures from Psalms, Revelations, and the Gospels. Great! But... so what? Those scriptures have little to no meaning to me (or anyone else) unless they are being used to support, assert, or back up something. You didn't provide enough context to make it clear what line of discussion you wanted from the audience.

You have to state clearly and concisely what you are trying to talk about and why. That way, everyone is on the same page. It may be subtly implied in the context of the scriptures you quoted and the brief commentary you provided, but unless it is obviously stated it will go over the heads of most people. Nobody here can read your mind, its up to you to clearly establish your goals and your method of achieving them.

Is your intent to inform? If so, then what specifically are you informing us about? What do all these scriptures have in common? What is all the necessary information needed to understand what you are trying to inform us of? Are you being descriptive enough (if necessary)? Etc.

Is your intent to persuade? If so, then what is your underlying argument? What are the sources that back up said argument? Why are you trying to persuade us? Also, you would need to convince me why I should even care about your argument. Etc.

Is your intent to entertain or otherwise tell a story? If so, then what is the story/narrative you are trying to convey via these scriptures?

In short, what is the question you are trying to answer, the argument you are trying to persuade us with, or the story you are trying to tell us? IE... what is your thesis statement. But you already answered that in a later post... so... lets move on

My focus was I suppose upon the man child and that he is an individual and not Jesus or the Church. That he is one of the 7 Spirits of God. That he is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. Beyond that I did not go. I could take it further and say the man child is the Davidic Servant which would be an obvious direction to take this. But that is not my purpose. My second focus was to describe how the Father or an avatar of the Father can become a "child" of Jesus. God can mean several things depending upon ones relationship in the creation. As I stated only Jesus has the power to bestow life on earth. When Jesus bestows a life experience to someone on earth he becomes that individuals God.

Now we are getting somewhere. You might wanna put the parts that I bolded in the OP.

My OP is new or at least newish and complicated.

Work on it. It will save you trouble in the long run. You'd be surprised how fleshing out your OP can help improve your conversations. In some ways, it helps to think of it like writing a mini essay for school.

I'm not at all surprised that there will be some not able to understand easily what I'm showing that the Bible teaches.

Some? I'd argue that most of us don't. The Bible isn't exactly clear 100% of the time, and that statement is doubly true for any prophecy or parable (particularly Isaiah, Revelation, and possibly Psalms). There are several (often) countless ways you can read the scriptures in a way that it make sense. Of course, that's where cross referencing with others and the Holy Spirit comes into play.

This is why you need to be clear in your intent and in your presentation. Hence why before you told me what your thesis was, I was writing a response to your initial reply to me.

In the OP you just effectively quoted different scriptures and gave commentary on them without specifically stating how and why they are related, nor did you appear to organize how you presented the scriptures in a coherent manner. IE, you didn't connect the scriptures together by pointing out common threads of themes, common threads of logic, etc.

While the scriptures themselves may actually seem to relate to each other... in actuality, any relation they have to one another must be formulated by the writer and conveyed to reader. Also, each scripture has their own contexts and subjects that need to be understood or taken into consideration before quoting them, lest the quoter accidentally (or in some cases, purposefully) quote them out of context.

Anyone can quote two random scriptures. But without context to frame your quotation in, the scriptures don't have any inherent meaning, as they are quoted out of context and without anything else to support. Its only when you specifically link them together and provide context does it gain inherent meaning, and thus helps to strengthen your argument.

We are not mind readers. You have to tell us what you want to talk about clearly, otherwise... we are just left to guess.

[Michael Sherwin]

Some quick clarification:

• I am an English major; as such, the context, intention, and the presentation of your writing is very important to me... as each one of those things tells me a little bit about you and what you are trying to say. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING someone says can give me information about them... if I look hard enough.
• I am on the Autism Spectrum; specifically, I am an Aspie. As such, I have problems with socializing, even online. I tend to be rather blunt, and many of the posts that I write can come off in a manner that I may not have intended. Likewise, I can easily misread the intent of others, and the fact that communication over the internet is notoriously wonky certainly doesn't help.

I think Alaric or I AM and others would understand my OP instantly as they have studied and posted along these lines before.

They might, or they might not. As I said, it isn't quite clear what you are getting at just based on the scriptures and your brief commentaries alone. Even with that information, there are 1000 different ways you can tie those scriptures together, and many more questions you could be trying to answer, or arguments you could be trying to make.

This is why discussions like this often annoy the heck out of me. The OPs where the bulk of (or the entire) post that is taken up by scripture quotes and vauge commentary, leaves the author's intent up to the interpretation of the reader. This doesn't work, and only serves to confuse the readers.

What could be an interesting discussion has no legs to stand on because nobody knows exactly what the OP is getting at, as the reader can draw thousands of different conclusions on the Author's intent from the little information given to them, and have no idea what kind of conversation the Author is trying to have in the first place. On top of that, with the author's intentions being so vauge and so very few people comment or reply... or outright assume the person has nefarious or mischievous intent and treat the OP accordingly.

You make it sound like it is not clear what my post is about further attacking its validity.

Well, first off, I wasn't attacking the validity of your post. Its kinda hard to attack the validity of an assertion or argument, when its not clear what the argument or assertion you are making is. Of course, now that you told me that, it makes it easier to actually have a discussion.

And where I am going with this? Just revealing some Biblical truth!

Unfortunately, when you said this, it really didn't tell me anything. Anytime someone quotes a scripture, biblical truth is indeed revealed. Now, whether or not your commentary on each scripture is truth or not, is up for debate (not gonna touch that line of argument with a 10 foot pole, as 9/10 times it only leads to flaring tempers), and ultimately beside the point.

As I said before, any random schmuck can quote scriptures and tie them together or give some commentary on them, but unless there is a reason and underlying purpose behind doing so, its basically pointless. You quoted many different scriptures from Psalms, Revelations, and the Gospels. Great! But... so what? Those scriptures have little to no meaning to me (or anyone else) unless they are being used to support, assert, or back up something. You didn't provide enough context to make it clear what line of discussion you wanted from the audience.

You have to state clearly and concisely what you are trying to talk about and why. That way, everyone is on the same page. It may be subtly implied in the context of the scriptures you quoted and the brief commentary you provided, but unless it is obviously stated it will go over the heads of most people. Nobody here can read your mind, its up to you to clearly establish your goals and your method of achieving them.

Is your intent to inform? If so, then what specifically are you informing us about? What do all these scriptures have in common? What is all the necessary information needed to understand what you are trying to inform us of? Are you being descriptive enough (if necessary)? Etc.

Is your intent to persuade? If so, then what is your underlying argument? What are the sources that back up said argument? Why are you trying to persuade us? Also, you would need to convince me why I should even care about your argument. Etc.

Is your intent to entertain or otherwise tell a story? If so, then what is the story/narrative you are trying to convey via these scriptures?

In short, what is the question you are trying to answer, the argument you are trying to persuade us with, or the story you are trying to tell us? IE... what is your thesis statement. But you already answered that in a later post... so... lets move on

My focus was I suppose upon the man child and that he is an individual and not Jesus or the Church. That he is one of the 7 Spirits of God. That he is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. Beyond that I did not go. I could take it further and say the man child is the Davidic Servant which would be an obvious direction to take this. But that is not my purpose. My second focus was to describe how the Father or an avatar of the Father can become a "child" of Jesus. God can mean several things depending upon ones relationship in the creation. As I stated only Jesus has the power to bestow life on earth. When Jesus bestows a life experience to someone on earth he becomes that individuals God.

Now we are getting somewhere. You might wanna put the parts that I bolded in the OP.

My OP is new or at least newish and complicated.

Work on it. It will save you trouble in the long run. You'd be surprised how fleshing out your OP can help improve your conversations. In some ways, it helps to think of it like writing a mini essay for school.

I'm not at all surprised that there will be some not able to understand easily what I'm showing that the Bible teaches.

Some? I'd argue that most of us don't. The Bible isn't exactly clear 100% of the time, and that statement is doubly true for any prophecy or parable (particularly Isaiah, Revelation, and possibly Psalms). There are several (often) countless ways you can read the scriptures in a way that it make sense. Of course, that's where cross referencing with others and the Holy Spirit comes into play.

This is why you need to be clear in your intent and in your presentation. Hence why before you told me what your thesis was, I was writing a response to your initial reply to me.

In the OP you just effectively quoted different scriptures and gave commentary on them without specifically stating how and why they are related, nor did you appear to organize how you presented the scriptures in a coherent manner. IE, you didn't connect the scriptures together by pointing out common threads of themes, common threads of logic, etc.

While the scriptures themselves may actually seem to relate to each other... in actuality, any relation they have to one another must be formulated by the writer and conveyed to reader. Also, each scripture has their own contexts and subjects that need to be understood or taken into consideration before quoting them, lest the quoter accidentally (or in some cases, purposefully) quote them out of context.

Anyone can quote two random scriptures. But without context to frame your quotation in, the scriptures don't have any inherent meaning, as they are quoted out of context and without anything else to support. Its only when you specifically link them together and provide context does it gain inherent meaning, and thus helps to strengthen your argument.

We are not mind readers. You have to tell us what you want to talk about clearly, otherwise... we are just left to guess.

I'm not posting on the LDS be detailed and concise forum. And I'm not responsible for people not being able to get what I am trying to say. Some will though. Maybe one of them will decide to join this non conversation to clarify what I am trying to say whether they agree or not. I'm not your or anyone else's workhorse. You are putting the burden on me. I'm old, tired and not in good health. And I am in excruciating pain because I suffer from fibromyalgia. You should just accept my post for what you think it is and be on your way rather than trying to Lord over me with your demands and judgements. And I do have empathy for your disability. Have some for mine.

[Michael Sherwin]

Agreed on all until the end.

My view of Revelation 3:12, is pertaining to all followers of Christ.

We will be given a new name from Christ and gathered in to the New Jerusalem, never to go back out to Babylon. We will receive His countenance and we come to the Father through Christ.

I used the KJV version:

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

It's cool. That is the accepted interpretation. Everything I say after this is IMO. Let's examine who "He" or "Him" is. The best starting point for this investigation is.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Most that have investigated this sign that allegedly appeared in the heavens on 9/23/2017 interpreted it as a 'movie'. That is why they focus on Jupiter- when it entered the 'womb' and ten months or so later exited the 'womb'. That is nothing more than human folly adding to the scripture. Those two passages above are not a 'movie'. It is a snapshot. A specific moment in time. That moment was 9/23/2017.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The second mistake that people make is believing that the woman is in travail to give birth to the man child. The third mistake is that the man child refers to Jesus or a corporate entity such as the Church. The man child is not the Church because the man child is born before she travails meaning that the man child is born before 9/23/2017.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The man child is not Jesus because the man child receives a great anointing from Jesus.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

So if the man child is not the Church and the man child is not Jesus then who is he. He is the one that stands at the time of the sign of the woman.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

The woman that travailith IS THE SIGN. The one she brings forth is the man child. The man child is the one that stands.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

IMO, the man child is not what we have been taught.

What is it that we have been taught?

Assuming you are LDS you are taught that the man child is Jesus and it all happened already. If you are not LDS then you have been taught the above or you have been taught that the man child is the church.

[Alaris]

The seven spirits are the seven dispensation heads, or patriarchs. None of them is Jehovah. Counting up, Jehovah is the 8th, just above them. Counting down, the One Mighty and Strong is the 8th, just below.

Zechariah 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 3:9 is a reference to the actual fulfillment of Yom Kippur. The Lord engraves upon the stone himself - what is engraved upon it?

Revelation 3:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The Lord gives the BRANCH a new name ... in the stone that has seven eyes which, the Angel of the Lord, of all people, tells Zechariah represents the seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

JST Rev. 3:1 And unto the servant of the church in Sardis, write; These things saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God; I know thy …

That JST hammers the point home - none of the seven are Jesus. They are His servants.

[Michael Sherwin]

The seven spirits are the seven dispensation heads, or patriarchs. None of them is Jehovah. Counting up, Jehovah is the 8th, just above them. Counting down, the One Mighty and Strong is the 8th, just below.

Zechariah 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 3:9 is a reference to the actual fulfillment of Yom Kippur. The Lord engraves upon the stone himself - what is engraved upon it?

Revelation 3:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The Lord gives the BRANCH a new name ... in the stone that has seven eyes which, the Angel of the Lord, of all people, tells Zechariah represents the seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

JST Rev. 3:1 And unto the servant of the church in Sardis, write; These things saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God; I know thy …

That JST hammers the point home - none of the seven are Jesus. They are His servants.

Well I admit that in my interpretation I am not sure whether the total is 7 or 8. By the plain meaning of the text it is 7. But whatever the correct total is one (Jesus) is in charge (made better) and the others were made his servant. Our two views are not that far off. You say the 8th where I would say the 7th. Whatever they are they all are born on the earth at some time, "seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth". Jesus went to and fro in the earth when he was on earth. Together all 7 go to and fro in the whole earth. Whether there are 7 or there are 8 the man child is the last to go to and fro in the earth.

We need to improve our understanding. "upon one stone shall be seven eyes" This equates the stone and the Lamb with seven eyes as being the same. But only 7 spirits are part of the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb does not have one big eye and seven small eyes. The Lamb has 7 eyes THAT ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD. No more no less. The man child is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. IMO.

"saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God" JST

Okay I see what you are saying here. That is why you are saying that there are 8. However, he that has the seven servants of God is the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb is the manifestation of the Father proceeding from the throne into this creation. The Lamb is comprised of 7 Spirits that are all directly manifest from the Father before creation. But only one of those is our God. Because the Father created the visible universe through only one of them. The one known as Jesus that was made better than the rest. IMO.

[Durzan]

I'm not posting on the LDS be detailed and concise forum. And I'm not responsible for people not being able to get what I am trying to say. Some will though. Maybe one of them will decide to join this non conversation to clarify what I am trying to say whether they agree or not. I'm not your or anyone else's workhorse. You are putting the burden on me. I'm old, tired and not in good health. And I am in excruciating pain because I suffer from fibromyalgia. You should just accept my post for what you think it is and be on your way rather than trying to Lord over me with your demands and judgements. And I do have empathy for your disability. Have some for mine.

Come then, let us reason with one another. I was primarily giving you advice not only on how to improve not only the OP of this thread, but also future posts you make.

I'm less concerned with "Lording over [you]" and more concerned with ensuring that others can understand what you are saying in the first place. The less you leave open for interpretation regarding your intent, the less work you have to do later on in the thread, and the more likely you are to teach, share, learn from, and otherwise interact positively with other forum members. Which also means that you can spend less effort explaining what you mean, and focus more on the interesting conversations that spring forth from the OP.

You started a thread, and set the tone for the conversation. In a sense, you do have some responsibility for ensuring that others can understand you. After all... if nobody understands what those parameters are, then there is no conversation and your thread dies. Sure, another person may come along and try to clarify, but their views are not going to be the same as your own... and they very well could significantly misinterpret what you said (which can cause problems for you).

If I started a thread that caught your interest, wouldn't you want to clearly know what I was talking about, the purpose of the thread, and where I stood on the matter (if relevant) right from the start so you and others didn't have to ask completely? Knowing that information allows you to give a proper response on the subject, without having to do as much floundering or guessing.

As such, it is your best interest to communicate effectively with your peers... such as simply giving your intended thesis statement or the question you are trying to answer. The explanation doesn't have to be long... long enough to give everyone a general idea of where you are trying to direct the conversation, which is just a couple of sentences... like what you said in response to my clarification. Its not hard.

You are not mine or anyone else's workhorse, but you've already put some effort into creating this thread. Why not take just a little extra effort to ensure that update the thread? I'm not asking you to rewrite the OP as an essay... just add a couple of sentences near the beginning of the post that state what the thread's purpose was... ya know, like you said to me a couple posts ago, and then put a bit more clarifying details in future threads you start... ya know, so everyone has a greater chance of being on the same page whenever they discuss something with you.

Look, I realize that you aren't nearly as young as you used to be, that you are tired and in constant pain, and I want you to know that I empathize with that. I'm not heartless or unreasonable (at least, I hope so...). You are a fellow child of God, and I cannot turn a blind eye towards you. If you need someone to lean on or talk to in private, I am here. One of the reasons why I accepted the offer to become a forum moderator was so that I could help people and make this forum a better place. I see it as an act of service.

I'm willing to help you out. If you cannot bring yourself to edit the OP, then I'm willing to do so in your stead: I can easily copy and paste your intended purpose into the top of the OP, if you want me to. So, take a deep breath and don't over think things; I got you. We got you. This forum isn't meant to be a place of contention, but of light and learning.

And for the record. I do appreciate your post for what it is. Thank you for posting the scriptures. Just do everyone a favor and give a somewhat more thorough explanation in future threads you start from the get go. That way you aren't dealing with the pain of editing your posts over and over again, and also don't have to give a more thorough explanation to other users later on down the line.

[Alaris]

The seven spirits are the seven dispensation heads, or patriarchs. None of them is Jehovah. Counting up, Jehovah is the 8th, just above them. Counting down, the One Mighty and Strong is the 8th, just below.

Zechariah 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 3:9 is a reference to the actual fulfillment of Yom Kippur. The Lord engraves upon the stone himself - what is engraved upon it?

Revelation 3:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The Lord gives the BRANCH a new name ... in the stone that has seven eyes which, the Angel of the Lord, of all people, tells Zechariah represents the seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

JST Rev. 3:1 And unto the servant of the church in Sardis, write; These things saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God; I know thy …

That JST hammers the point home - none of the seven are Jesus. They are His servants.

Well I admit that in my interpretation I am not sure whether the total is 7 or 8. By the plain meaning of the text it is 7. But whatever the correct total is one (Jesus) is in charge (made better) and the others were made his servant. Our two views are not that far off. You say the 8th where I would say the 7th. Whatever they are they all are born on the earth at some time, "seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth". Jesus went to and fro in the earth when he was on earth. Together all 7 go to and fro in the whole earth. Whether there are 7 or there are 8 the man child is the last to go to and fro in the earth.

We need to improve our understanding. "upon one stone shall be seven eyes" This equates the stone and the Lamb with seven eyes as being the same. But only 7 spirits are part of the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb does not have one big eye and seven small eyes. The Lamb has 7 eyes THAT ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD. No more no less. The man child is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. IMO.

"saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God" JST

Okay I see what you are saying here. That is why you are saying that there are 8. However, he that has the seven servants of God is the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb is the manifestation of the Father proceeding from the throne into this creation. The Lamb is comprised of 7 Spirits that are all directly manifest from the Father before creation. But only one of those is our God. Because the Father created the visible universe through only one of them. The one known as Jesus that was made better than the rest. IMO.

Two lambs are sacrificed morning and evening each of the seven days of the cleansing ritual of the Priests of Levi. Morning and Evening are symbols of death and birth as are fall and spring. Spring / morning point to Jesus. Fall / death point to the other lamb. Neither are the Father.

The Lamb with seven eyes and horns could really be either Jesus (the 8th counting up) or the servant (the 8th counting down)

One is the Lamb of this world and one is the Lamb to be imho.

[Michael Sherwin]

The seven spirits are the seven dispensation heads, or patriarchs. None of them is Jehovah. Counting up, Jehovah is the 8th, just above them. Counting down, the One Mighty and Strong is the 8th, just below.

Zechariah 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 3:9 is a reference to the actual fulfillment of Yom Kippur. The Lord engraves upon the stone himself - what is engraved upon it?

Revelation 3:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The Lord gives the BRANCH a new name ... in the stone that has seven eyes which, the Angel of the Lord, of all people, tells Zechariah represents the seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

JST Rev. 3:1 And unto the servant of the church in Sardis, write; These things saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God; I know thy …

That JST hammers the point home - none of the seven are Jesus. They are His servants.

Well I admit that in my interpretation I am not sure whether the total is 7 or 8. By the plain meaning of the text it is 7. But whatever the correct total is one (Jesus) is in charge (made better) and the others were made his servant. Our two views are not that far off. You say the 8th where I would say the 7th. Whatever they are they all are born on the earth at some time, "seven of the LORD who run to and fro through the whole earth". Jesus went to and fro in the earth when he was on earth. Together all 7 go to and fro in the whole earth. Whether there are 7 or there are 8 the man child is the last to go to and fro in the earth.

We need to improve our understanding. "upon one stone shall be seven eyes" This equates the stone and the Lamb with seven eyes as being the same. But only 7 spirits are part of the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb does not have one big eye and seven small eyes. The Lamb has 7 eyes THAT ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD. No more no less. The man child is the last of the 7 Spirits of God to incarnate. IMO.

"saith he who hath the seven stars, which are the seven servants of God" JST

Okay I see what you are saying here. That is why you are saying that there are 8. However, he that has the seven servants of God is the Lamb with 7 eyes. The Lamb is the manifestation of the Father proceeding from the throne into this creation. The Lamb is comprised of 7 Spirits that are all directly manifest from the Father before creation. But only one of those is our God. Because the Father created the visible universe through only one of them. The one known as Jesus that was made better than the rest. IMO.

Two lambs are sacrificed morning and evening each of the seven days of the cleansing ritual of the Priests of Levi. Morning and Evening are symbols of death and birth as are fall and spring. Spring / morning point to Jesus. Fall / death point to the other lamb. Neither are the Father.

The Lamb with seven eyes and horns could really be either Jesus (the 8th counting up) or the servant (the 8th counting down)

One is the Lamb of this world and one is the Lamb to be imho.

I don't see how the Lamb with seven eyes can be just one when the Bible says that the Lamb with seven eyes, "which are the seven Spirits of God". I guess that maybe this messes with the idea of the trinity. But not really because the trinity is the hierarchy of what is "our God" that created this universe. My claim is not all the seven Spirits of God participated in the creation because they were not given the power of creation or the power of life.

[Juliet]

I mean, this idea is way out there, but could Jesus father many children to manifest on Earth even as He is in His glory? Are these the sons of God the earth wants to bring forth?

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

[I AM]

The One Mighty and Strong who is the "man child" spoken of in Revelation 12
which refers to the sign in the heavens that heralded the beginning of his mission.
Revelation 12 sign -
The stars were positioned in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

1 Thessalonians 5:3
3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

"And now cometh the day of their calamity, even the days of sorrow,
like a woman that is taken in travail; and their sorrow shall be great
unless they speedily repent, yea, very speedily." (D&C 136:35)

Revelation 12
Verses 1 - the stars were in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
verse 2 - The beginning of the tribulation starts.
( "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.")
verse 5 - the "man child". is the Davidic prophet, the one mighty and strong
whom the dragon wants to destroy as soon as he appears. (verse 3-4)
The red dragon is symbolic of kingdoms of the world and Satan.
It also corresponds to a constellation, Hydrus.
verse 6 - "the woman" is the righteous remnant,
"where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." ( or 3 and a half years), equal to the time the beast has power and the duration of the tribulation.

This chapter is all about two end-times people:
The servant of God (also known as the one mighty and strong in other scriptures) and the servant of Satan (also known as the King of Assyria in Isaiah). The chapter weaves together imagery from a war in heaven that was fought before the world was created, signs in the heavens, and other imagery to explain how the servant of God and the servant of Satan will come on the scene and what their principle missions and dispositions will be.

As in other places, this Christ-symbology is used to describe the one mighty and strong, who is a type of Christ and has a holy mission more similar to Jesus' than anyone who has ever lived. This date provides a sign that marks the onset of the mission of the one mighty and strong.
Likewise, Satan symbology is used to describe the servant of the devil,
who is a type of Satan himself.

The man child is the one mighty and strong.
Some are thrown off by the phrase "rule all nations with a rod of iron." Yet, we know that God will appoint a man to sit on the throne of David, that this will be after God has thrown down all other nations, and that he will govern with the word of God ("rod of iron" in other places).

We are told in verse five that when Virgo brings forth Jupiter, the one mighty and strong will be caught up to God and his throne. It is important to distinguish the symbolism from the literal. Servants of God are caught up to his throne--literally carried to the throne of God--when they begin their ministry.
This happened, for example, with Isaiah and Ezekiel. When this happens, it will mark the beginning of Zion, which is in and around this servant.
The kingdom of God--this person and his following--will go into the wilderness as directed by God, to be protected from the desolation that comes after this point for three and a half years.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This passage parallels the description of the coming forth of the one mighty and strong.
Here we read of the coming forth of the servant of Satan. The language used to describe this is a recounting of the war in heaven that occurred before the earth was inhabited. Just as the one mighty and strong represents Christ coming to the earth again (though he is not Christ), the servant of Satan represents Satan himself. Just as the one mighty and strong will accomplish the work of Jesus on the earth, the servant of Satan will accomplish the work of the devil.
The start of the mission of each of these people will dramatically affect
life on earth.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


The kingdom of the devil will rise up and persecute the kingdom of God in an unprecedented manner as soon as the mission of these two begin. The calling of the one mighty and strong will initiate a physical gathering to places of safety in the wilderness. Meanwhile, Christians everywhere will be persecuted.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

This flood is not symbolic. The places of safety will be in the Rocky Mountains in the USA.
The flood could be caused by man-made nuclear tsunamis on the west coast of the US. Far fetched?
The Russians have designed and leaked equipment and plans to do just that.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Again, this is not symbolic. There will be an earthquake that will cause the waters to subside somewhat.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There will be a literal war between those who believe in God
and those who do not.

[justme]

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

All seven Spirits of God at some point in time incarnate on earth. Spirits of God that incarnate are caught up to heaven in the sight of man. The last Spirit of God to incarnate is the one known as the man child. Jesus is one of the seven Spirits of God. Here we see his request to be reunited with the Father.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes is the manifestation of the Father in the creation. Jesus was "made" better than the other six Spirits of God.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

These angels are not the created angels because they are spirits. Spirit precedes the creation.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The Father created the visible universe through Jesus. That is why Jesus has the title of God. He is the God of creation.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Our God is Jesus because Jesus created us. But our God is also the Father because the Father created us through Jesus. And a most precious precept is that although the other six Spirits of God are of the Father just as Jesus is of the Father, Jesus becomes their God. How?

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Because Jesus sends them to incarnate and thus becomes their God. All seven Spirits of God are manifestations of the Father. However, Jesus becomes the God of the other six because only Jesus has the power to grant life on earth to the others.

At some point the man child will receive a great anointing.

Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Psalm 2:7-10 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

The man child will be God on earth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The man child is mighty and strong. The man child is an incarnation (avatar) of the Father. Etc. The man child is God on earth because of the anointing that he received from Jesus. The very same anointing that Jesus received from the Father that bestowed sonship and the power of life upon Jesus. And when the man child's mission is complete he will reunite with the Lamb and go no more out.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

How do we edit Durzan's edit on the original post to say you're instead of your?

[Michael Sherwin]

I mean, this idea is way out there, but could Jesus father many children to manifest on Earth even as He is in His glory? Are these the sons of God the earth wants to bring forth?

I only post about the things I believe have been revealed to me by God. When humans have children they are not new intelligences that have come into being. According to Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse it is the same with God. God does not create new intelligences. And JS defines intelligences as being mind with spirit co equal and co eternal with God. Further JS stated that God added to us thus becoming God to us. Jesus has the power to give life. That is how Jesus became our God because Jesus gave us life. However just receiving this life from Jesus is not quite being his child. The single biggest reason that we want to become a child of Jesus is to be in eternity with him. When we receive a celestial type body at the resurrection we become children of our God, which is Jesus. Those that receive terrestrial type bodies at the first resurrection are not yet children of God. They will enter the hour of testing and be killed for there witness of Jesus. They will receive a second resurrection and become children of Jesus and receive celestial type bodies. So yes all humans that receive celestial type bodies become the children of Jesus. IMO

[Michael Sherwin]

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

All seven Spirits of God at some point in time incarnate on earth. Spirits of God that incarnate are caught up to heaven in the sight of man. The last Spirit of God to incarnate is the one known as the man child. Jesus is one of the seven Spirits of God. Here we see his request to be reunited with the Father.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes is the manifestation of the Father in the creation. Jesus was "made" better than the other six Spirits of God.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

These angels are not the created angels because they are spirits. Spirit precedes the creation.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The Father created the visible universe through Jesus. That is why Jesus has the title of God. He is the God of creation.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Our God is Jesus because Jesus created us. But our God is also the Father because the Father created us through Jesus. And a most precious precept is that although the other six Spirits of God are of the Father just as Jesus is of the Father, Jesus becomes their God. How?

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Because Jesus sends them to incarnate and thus becomes their God. All seven Spirits of God are manifestations of the Father. However, Jesus becomes the God of the other six because only Jesus has the power to grant life on earth to the others.

At some point the man child will receive a great anointing.

Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Psalm 2:7-10 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

The man child will be God on earth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The man child is mighty and strong. The man child is an incarnation (avatar) of the Father. Etc. The man child is God on earth because of the anointing that he received from Jesus. The very same anointing that Jesus received from the Father that bestowed sonship and the power of life upon Jesus. And when the man child's mission is complete he will reunite with the Lamb and go no more out.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

How do we edit Durzan's edit on the original post to say you're instead of your?

In haste I often make that same mistake. I also in haste mix up there and their. So I am willing to give Durzan a pass on that one.

[Michael Sherwin]

The One Mighty and Strong who is the "man child" spoken of in Revelation 12
which refers to the sign in the heavens that heralded the beginning of his mission.
Revelation 12 sign -
The stars were positioned in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

1 Thessalonians 5:3
3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

"And now cometh the day of their calamity, even the days of sorrow,
like a woman that is taken in travail; and their sorrow shall be great
unless they speedily repent, yea, very speedily." (D&C 136:35)

Revelation 12
Verses 1 - the stars were in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
verse 2 - The beginning of the tribulation starts.
( "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.")
verse 5 - the "man child". is the Davidic prophet, the one mighty and strong
whom the dragon wants to destroy as soon as he appears. (verse 3-4)
The red dragon is symbolic of kingdoms of the world and Satan.
It also corresponds to a constellation, Hydrus.
verse 6 - "the woman" is the righteous remnant,
"where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." ( or 3 and a half years), equal to the time the beast has power and the duration of the tribulation.

This chapter is all about two end-times people:
The servant of God (also known as the one mighty and strong in other scriptures) and the servant of Satan (also known as the King of Assyria in Isaiah). The chapter weaves together imagery from a war in heaven that was fought before the world was created, signs in the heavens, and other imagery to explain how the servant of God and the servant of Satan will come on the scene and what their principle missions and dispositions will be.

As in other places, this Christ-symbology is used to describe the one mighty and strong, who is a type of Christ and has a holy mission more similar to Jesus' than anyone who has ever lived. This date provides a sign that marks the onset of the mission of the one mighty and strong.
Likewise, Satan symbology is used to describe the servant of the devil,
who is a type of Satan himself.

The man child is the one mighty and strong.
Some are thrown off by the phrase "rule all nations with a rod of iron." Yet, we know that God will appoint a man to sit on the throne of David, that this will be after God has thrown down all other nations, and that he will govern with the word of God ("rod of iron" in other places).

We are told in verse five that when Virgo brings forth Jupiter, the one mighty and strong will be caught up to God and his throne. It is important to distinguish the symbolism from the literal. Servants of God are caught up to his throne--literally carried to the throne of God--when they begin their ministry.
This happened, for example, with Isaiah and Ezekiel. When this happens, it will mark the beginning of Zion, which is in and around this servant.
The kingdom of God--this person and his following--will go into the wilderness as directed by God, to be protected from the desolation that comes after this point for three and a half years.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This passage parallels the description of the coming forth of the one mighty and strong.
Here we read of the coming forth of the servant of Satan. The language used to describe this is a recounting of the war in heaven that occurred before the earth was inhabited. Just as the one mighty and strong represents Christ coming to the earth again (though he is not Christ), the servant of Satan represents Satan himself. Just as the one mighty and strong will accomplish the work of Jesus on the earth, the servant of Satan will accomplish the work of the devil.
The start of the mission of each of these people will dramatically affect
life on earth.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


The kingdom of the devil will rise up and persecute the kingdom of God in an unprecedented manner as soon as the mission of these two begin. The calling of the one mighty and strong will initiate a physical gathering to places of safety in the wilderness. Meanwhile, Christians everywhere will be persecuted.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

This flood is not symbolic. The places of safety will be in the Rocky Mountains in the USA.
The flood could be caused by man-made nuclear tsunamis on the west coast of the US. Far fetched?
The Russians have designed and leaked equipment and plans to do just that.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Again, this is not symbolic. There will be an earthquake that will cause the waters to subside somewhat.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There will be a literal war between those who believe in God
and those who do not.

I AM, you basically believe what I believe. I would say that we are at least 90% in sync. While it is literal that the earth will open and swallow the flood it will be the mighty and strong one that causes the earth to open. I just want to ask you a direct question. Which of the following do you disagree with and why?

The man child is the mighty and strong one.
The mighty and strong one is the same as the messenger of Malachi 3:1.
The man child is the one that stands in Micah 5:4.
After the man child is caught up he returns with Jesus.
Michael TGP is the man child.

[I AM]

The One Mighty and Strong who is the "man child" spoken of in Revelation 12
which refers to the sign in the heavens that heralded the beginning of his mission.
Revelation 12 sign -
The stars were positioned in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

1 Thessalonians 5:3
3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

"And now cometh the day of their calamity, even the days of sorrow,
like a woman that is taken in travail; and their sorrow shall be great
unless they speedily repent, yea, very speedily." (D&C 136:35)

Revelation 12
Verses 1 - the stars were in Virgo fulfilling this
on September 23, 2017
verse 2 - The beginning of the tribulation starts.
( "For when they shall say, Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.")
verse 5 - the "man child". is the Davidic prophet, the one mighty and strong
whom the dragon wants to destroy as soon as he appears. (verse 3-4)
The red dragon is symbolic of kingdoms of the world and Satan.
It also corresponds to a constellation, Hydrus.
verse 6 - "the woman" is the righteous remnant,
"where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." ( or 3 and a half years), equal to the time the beast has power and the duration of the tribulation.

This chapter is all about two end-times people:
The servant of God (also known as the one mighty and strong in other scriptures) and the servant of Satan (also known as the King of Assyria in Isaiah). The chapter weaves together imagery from a war in heaven that was fought before the world was created, signs in the heavens, and other imagery to explain how the servant of God and the servant of Satan will come on the scene and what their principle missions and dispositions will be.

As in other places, this Christ-symbology is used to describe the one mighty and strong, who is a type of Christ and has a holy mission more similar to Jesus' than anyone who has ever lived. This date provides a sign that marks the onset of the mission of the one mighty and strong.
Likewise, Satan symbology is used to describe the servant of the devil,
who is a type of Satan himself.

The man child is the one mighty and strong.
Some are thrown off by the phrase "rule all nations with a rod of iron." Yet, we know that God will appoint a man to sit on the throne of David, that this will be after God has thrown down all other nations, and that he will govern with the word of God ("rod of iron" in other places).

We are told in verse five that when Virgo brings forth Jupiter, the one mighty and strong will be caught up to God and his throne. It is important to distinguish the symbolism from the literal. Servants of God are caught up to his throne--literally carried to the throne of God--when they begin their ministry.
This happened, for example, with Isaiah and Ezekiel. When this happens, it will mark the beginning of Zion, which is in and around this servant.
The kingdom of God--this person and his following--will go into the wilderness as directed by God, to be protected from the desolation that comes after this point for three and a half years.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This passage parallels the description of the coming forth of the one mighty and strong.
Here we read of the coming forth of the servant of Satan. The language used to describe this is a recounting of the war in heaven that occurred before the earth was inhabited. Just as the one mighty and strong represents Christ coming to the earth again (though he is not Christ), the servant of Satan represents Satan himself. Just as the one mighty and strong will accomplish the work of Jesus on the earth, the servant of Satan will accomplish the work of the devil.
The start of the mission of each of these people will dramatically affect
life on earth.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


The kingdom of the devil will rise up and persecute the kingdom of God in an unprecedented manner as soon as the mission of these two begin. The calling of the one mighty and strong will initiate a physical gathering to places of safety in the wilderness. Meanwhile, Christians everywhere will be persecuted.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

This flood is not symbolic. The places of safety will be in the Rocky Mountains in the USA.
The flood could be caused by man-made nuclear tsunamis on the west coast of the US. Far fetched?
The Russians have designed and leaked equipment and plans to do just that.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Again, this is not symbolic. There will be an earthquake that will cause the waters to subside somewhat.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There will be a literal war between those who believe in God
and those who do not.

I AM, you basically believe what I believe. I would say that we are at least 90% in sync. While it is literal that the earth will open and swallow the flood it will be the mighty and strong one that causes the earth to open. I just want to ask you a direct question. Which of the following do you disagree with and why?

The man child is the mighty and strong one.
The mighty and strong one is the same as the messenger of Malachi 3:1.
The man child is the one that stands in Micah 5:4.
After the man child is caught up he returns with Jesus.
Michael TGP is the man child.

--------------

I'm sorry but I don't type
and I'm really not that interested in all this that I've already gone over
in this forum in great lengths over the past year.
but search my posts under my name.
Here is one thread of mine - "The Davidic servant is John not the Holy Ghost"
that you might find some answers to your questions;
and many other threads and comments I've made about the end-time servant.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48023&p=903386#p903386

I think this says it all. why look any further.

These verses show by the Davidic servants mission
that he - John is Elias, and his mission is to gather Israel
and " restore all things."


D&C 77
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

D&C 77
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
and

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48023&p=903554#p903554

The primary mission of the Davidic servant is to gather Israel.
From the scriptures below, and the word links that I show with different colors,
you can see that John is the one who fulfills this mission.

lds.org
1–3, John the Beloved will live until the Lord comes; 4–8, Peter, James, and John hold gospel keys.
D&C 7
7 And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come.

So these keys are held by Peter, James, and John.
inasmuch as Peter and James have passed through
and beyond the invisible veil, it places John – the Davidic servant as the only one
holding these certain presiding keys in the flesh.

D&C113

5 What is the ROOT (John the Rev.) of Jesse spoken
of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?

6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse,
as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood,
and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign,
and for the gathering of my people in the last days.


Isaiah 49

3 He said to me, You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 I had thought, I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing
and to no purpose!
Yet my cause rested with Jehovah,
my recompense with my God.

Jehovah’s calling his servant “Israel” parallels Jehovah’s calling his people’s ancestor Jacob by his new name Israel after Jacob had proven loyal to him (Genesis 32:28). The servant’s receiving a new name, in other words—which the name Israel here symbolizes—attests to his ascent to a higher spiritual level after he has proven loyal to Jehovah. It also implies that he—Jehovah’s individual servant—serves as a surrogate of and as an exemplar to Jehovah’s collective servant; that is, to Jehovah’s people in the Jacob/Israel category to whom Jehovah sends him (vv 5-9; Isaiah 41:27; 42:6-7; 48:16).

One way the servant proves loyal is to continue laboring in Jehovah’s cause even in the face of few positive results. By all appearances, he at first spends a great deal of energy “in vain” and “for nothing and to no purpose.” And yet, desiring to serve Jehovah even under the most adversarial conditions (v 7; Isaiah 50:6-9; 52:13-14), he submits to Jehovah’s will: “My Lord Jehovah has endowed me with a learned tongue, that I may know how to preach to those grown weary a word to wake them up” (Isaiah 50:4). Before ascending to Isaiah’s seraph level, he descends through trials that consume him.

5 For now Jehovah has said—
he who formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him,
Israel having been gathered to him;
for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah
when my God became my strength—
6 he said: It is too small a thing
for you to be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations,
that my salvation may be to the end of the earth.

A reversal of circumstances takes place for Jehovah’s servant when the trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level, thereby qualifying him for a new commission. Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) “to the end of the earth.” From there, Jehovah’s people are to return (Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:5-6), so that all who desire it might participate in Jehovah’s salvation and prepare for Jehovah’s coming as salvation (Isaiah 52:7; 62:11).

Jehovah “appoints” his servant when he “wins honor” in Jehovah’s eyes by proving faithful through trials (v 4), at which time his God becomes his “strength.” The servant’s physical exploits that follow—subduing nations, releasing captives, leading the new exodus, and rebuilding ruins (Isaiah 9:2-5; 11:10-16; 41:2-3, 25; 45:1-3, 13; 48:14; 61:1-4)—should thus be seen in the context of an ascent phase of divine empowerment that follows his descent phase through afflictions as he fulfills his role of proxy savior to the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lds.org
Rev. Chapter 10
John seals up many things relative to the last days—
He is commissioned to participate in the restoration of all things.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 52:15 "sprinkle many nations"
Joseph Smith translated this to be -
"Gather many nation" see JS trans.
Isaiah 52:
13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently,
he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14 "As many were astonished at thee;
his visage was so marred more than any man,
and his form more than the sons of men:
15 So shall he sprinkle (JST gather) many nations;
the kings shall shut their mouths at him:
for that which had not been told them shall they see;
and that which they had not heard shall they consider."


3 Nephi 21:
8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.


Interesting how the Lord mentions that He will make John
" I will make him as flaming fire and a ministering angel;"

lds.org
D&C 7

1 And the Lord said unto me: John, my beloved,what desirest thou? For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you.
2 And I said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee.
3 And the Lord said unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory, and shalt prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues and people.

5 I say unto thee, Peter, this was a good desire; but my beloved has desired that he might do more, or a greater work yet among men than what he has before done.
6 Yea, he has undertaken a greater work; therefore I will make him as flaming fire and a ministering angel;
he shall minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation who dwell on the earth.


D&C 77
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?

A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom
is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it,
this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and
restore all things.

D&C 77
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance,
for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written,
must come and restore all things.

(this is in reference to the above scripture)
lds.org
Rev. Chapter 10
John seals up many things relative to the last days—
He is commissioned to participate in the restoration of all things.
---------------------------------------

and
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48023&p=903397#p903397

I just don't think we can get around what this says,
about John being Elias.

D&C 77
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

D&C 77
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

[DRC53]

The idea that John the Beloved is the Davidic Servant is misplaced. The poster who uses the sacred name of the Lord as his username to pander this idea shot guns a litany of scriptures making it extremely difficult to read and then concludes with the assertion something like, “see, it’s right there in black and white in the scriptures. It is not me saying it, but it is right there in the scriptures.” No matter how plain you are to try and show him where he’s wrong, he is too stubborn to look at it to discover that he might be wrong in how he’s interpreted the scripture all along.

He cites to Gileadi a lot professing that Gileadi is the most renown of Isaian experts. But, even Gileadi has come out repeatedly and refuted any idea that John is the Davidic Servant. It seems inconsistent to use Gileadi so much as authoritative in support of your position but then depart so dramatically when it comes to the conclusion of the identity of the servant.