LDS Freedom Forum

mirkwood wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 1:54 pm Of course shot placement matters too.

About 6 years ago, I read a study done on NYCPD officer-involved shootings over a 20 year period. Except in cases where the caliber was a magnum round (.357, .41, .44), caliber was not a factor in stopping the suspect. Shot placement was the number one factor in stopping the perp.

I went 6.5 CM in my AR platform a couple years back and I couldn’t be happier. I’ve really been looking for an excuse to buy a .416 barret or .50 bmg...but I can’t justify it (yet). For now, I’m settled on a .223 for fleshy targets <200 yards, the 6.5 for armored targets up to ~800 yards, and a .338 lapua for >800 yards or heavily armored.
I have nothing against AKs, just not my preference.

AK47 purely for the irony of getting commies with their own gun.

I had the opportunity to chat with a former member of the Russian GRU (their version of the CIA) while he was working as a contractor in Iraq. I asked him about the accuracy issues surrounding the AK. He responded with "It was accurate enough for us to sluce high tension power lines in the Ukraine," referring to the AK74.

Well.......
My favorite go to rifle is my .300 Win Mag.
I’ve got a few AK’s, since my bro stockpiles that 7.62 like its the end of the world.
However, 300 Blk is where we are focusing our bulk of funds. We just each built 458 socom’s.
My next build is a 500Blk, but my bro wants BMG’s.....
Now, if I could just put decent optics on all of them........
Well, Back to that .300 Win Mag......and my HKUSP 40........54 Cal Knight in-line percussion is a favorite too.
They all have their purpose and time.....

Alaris wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 5:36 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 5:25 pm AR's are the Batman Utility Belts of the semi-auto rifles. They are just a good all-round purpose rifle. Its a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.

Now, can an AK be used for sniping? Absolutely, as you pointed out. But generally speaking that's not its intended niche, unless using a specific variant designed to compensate. Its more effective at closer ranges,

Range is definitely a consideration. If you're traversing wide open spaces between you and ZION, and if you live in an area with little cover and wide open spaces, well then you shouldn't even be thinking of AR vs AK but which large caliber rifle you should be carrying.



If there are wooded areas and cover, then the range between an AK and AR becomes negligible at some point. Also ...

Farbeit from me to make baseless claims. I did look up (by round) rifles on cheapterthandirt.com sorted by price:

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/categor ... sortType=1

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/categor ... sortType=1

Apparently reality has flipped on me here - I don't recall ever seeing AR15s that cheap, but then again those $ 300 - $ 400 ones look a little sketchty. I wouldn't buy anything without doing more research on the brand / model / reviews etc.

Looks like the map of Zion is pretty much the area that would be covered by ash in a Yellowstone volcano! hmmm

Whichever one you have been properly trained on.

Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

Hey now. This thread is a facet of a facet of end times survival. AR vs AK. Righteousness is the # 1 key factor to survival. Period.

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what?

Probably grow a vineyard

Cool profile pic/name by the way.

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

Work on my garden in peace and safety.

mirkwood wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 7:17 pm If your receiver is stamped 5.56 you can also safely shoot .223. If your receiver is stamped .223 you can PROBABLY safely shoot .223. I only buy AR15"s stamped 5.56 so I can shoot both. I have both in my ammo stock.

I believe you can shoot .308 and 7.62x51 interchangeably, but you would want to confirm that first. I only buy .308 so I can't say for sure and have never researched it.

Yes, you can - they're interchangeable.
Most important rifle will be a larger 'battle rifle' which can penetrate through cover that smaller rounds can't get through. M1A w/ 20 or 30 round magazine or FN FAL are good units.
Get Boston's Gun Bible for some interesting insights.

Alaris wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

Hey now. This thread is a facet of a facet of end times survival. AR vs AK. Righteousness is the # 1 key factor to survival. Period.

Absolutely agree! And I don't mean to divert from the purpose of the thread or question its intention, just wished to highlight a question worth asking.

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 3:25 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

Hey now. This thread is a facet of a facet of end times survival. AR vs AK. Righteousness is the # 1 key factor to survival. Period.

Absolutely agree! And I don't mean to divert from the purpose of the thread or question its intention, just wished to highlight a question worth asking.

Well then I guess I would play some board games. Scrabble anyone?

AK or AR are fine....really the important aspect is training.

In my opinion the AR 15 wins the argument for two reasons:

1. Availability/commonality (everyone has one).
2. Ability to mount optics. At the end of the day, you won’t want to shoot what you can’t positively identify. There are a lot of great lightweight 1-6X and 1-8X optics on the market today that enable CQB distances and out to 600ish with an AR.

.308 AR10s are nice, but they are just too heavy. The AR platform does require a little more maintenance, but not much more. I have run several thousand rounds through ARs without cleaning. As long as it is lubricated, a quality built AR is good to go. The weight is a significant factor for everyone, even tier one folks. My ARs today are simple and as light as humanly possible.

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

High Five eachother

JK. I shouldn't joke about death... I cant even bring myself to shoot a Mule Deer. I'll be a sad man if I'm ever forced to kill a person.

But...your question dosent make sense to me????
We would do what we were doing before being forced to kill people who needed killing (living)????

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 11:36 pm

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

But...your question dosent make sense to me????
We would do what we were doing before being forced to kill people who needed killing (living)????

But life would not be at all like it is now if an "end of the world" (or other cataclysmic) scenario transpired, so that's what I'm referring to. How do you restore order, provide enough food, organize people together, maintain sufficient shelter, healthcare, etc? Of course it would all depend on the scenario, but supposing the power grid went down almost nothing about daily life would ever be the same and survival would become vastly more difficult.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, I apologize for diverting the subject. I was just pointing out that more would be needed to survive than guns.

Voyager wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 12:13 am

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 11:36 pm

Voyager wrote: ↑June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm Can't just shoot your way through the "end of the world." Firearms would be extremely useful for self-preservation after some cataclysmic event, but once you've kept yourself alive, then what? What do you do when there's nothing left for you to shoot?

But...your question dosent make sense to me????
We would do what we were doing before being forced to kill people who needed killing (living)????

But life would not be at all like it is now if an "end of the world" (or other cataclysmic) scenario transpired, so that's what I'm referring to. How do you restore order, provide enough food, organize people together, maintain sufficient shelter, healthcare, etc? Of course it would all depend on the scenario, but supposing the power grid went down almost nothing about daily life would ever be the same and survival would become vastly more difficult.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, I apologize for diverting the subject. I was just pointing out that more would be needed to survive than guns.

You're not wrong. Guns are just tools for a job. This is akin to Neiphites debating whether a sword or scimitar is better in a pitched battle(swords... because they are double edged, and will not break as easy as a curved blade).

I'm one who believes this county next great struggle....will be a struggle for Zion. This is not Zion. We are far from what we commanded to be. Our Church doesn't function like D&C says it should(which is a scary thought).

After we go through our Great Tribulation(war,famine,pestilence,bondage ), our redemption will come by power....and we will began to live the higher Law(like Enoch).

If our next great struggle has nothing to doing with building Zion....then will probably all die from radiation or war, and there is no redemption. But.....I know that this is a Choice Land and we are Choice people.

It's hard to imagine we are a choice people...on account of our way of life. Though, most people I get to know I end up loving them,and they love me...so....that is the foundation of a society of Christ/Zion.

Well another argument for the AR is its extreme popularity. Due to this fact alone you're going to find more ammo, and more spare ARs, and more ARs in the cold dead hands of those who never learned to shoot (or repent.)

However if Russia ever invades, you may not be seeing any 5.56 mm rounds at all to take off your enemies but 5.45 mm and 7.62 mm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-12#History

China, on the other hand, has a 5.8 mm round but a 5.56 mm variant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95

FWIW

My husband votes AK “by far.”

I just hope I never am in a position that I have to shoot a gun. One time I was home alone with the kids late and could have sworn I heard someone in the basement. I took one of my husband’s guns —his shotgun maybe? — down with me. The whole time I was just thinking maybe it would scare someone off, because if it came down to using it, well, let’s just say I don’t think I would have been very effective at getting the job done. I don’t even think it was loaded. Lol. Oh, and by the way, it was just the cat rummaging around in our storage room.

And, yes, my husband has shown me several times how to load and use the guns, but it just doesn’t seem to stick with me. Like I’ve expressed in other threads, I just hope and pray nothing happens to him. I would rely on him for my life and my kids’ in a SHTF scenario.

I have an SKS

I am from eastern Europe. The only way to know this for sure is to wait and see. I will buy ak 47, since is easier and cheaper to buy amo. At this last days I will probably travel to Rock mountains as well. So when I arrive to US and what is left of it, I will find you fellow members to travel with. Then we can exchange guns and stories to see what is best

This will probably be my main go to. 12 guage can be quite versatile and the range isn't as bad as people think. Even with a short barrel.

Durzan wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 4:30 pm Comparison/Analysis:

The costs for both the AK and the AR are currently about the same, although the cheaper AR-15's are probably cheaper than the average cost for an AK, at least in the US.

A few points.

It's the Indian and not the arrow. Training and competence > platform.

The realities of the platforms here.

The AKs generally on the market here are poor specimens. Cobbled together surplus, potentially mixed manufacture. Not that you can't find good ones, you can. But they are not in the specified budgets you laid out.

AR 15 is the issue weapon here, parts and knowledge of the platform are going to be much more abundant.

If you are in the market for a rifle, and imho, every man who considers "protect" a duty ought to be, then you want a quality piece. 600 shouldn't be your budget. Start at minimum 900 for the rifle, and double that for training classes, videos, ammo, and accessories. In the revolutionary period, men would pay, rich or poor, about one year's salary on a rifle. I think we can spare a month's salary for the same purpose if we can do it for a wedding ring.

I favor the ar15. I second mirkwood in using 69+gr rounds. Good balance in long range ability, weight, and what happens to targets.

Another side to this is body armor. If you're serious about defense then you should have some. Steel is cheap, durable, and heavy. Probably suitable for most.

Alaris wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 1:23 pm However if Russia ever invades, you may not be seeing any 5.56 mm rounds at all to take off your enemies but 5.45 mm and 7.62 mm.

You might want to consider buying an upper for the AR-15 that shoots 5.45 or 7.62. Why?

1) Because it's cheap.
2) Because it's fun.
3) Because why not?

I built out an AR with a 5.45 upper a few years back to go with my AK-74 in 5.45.... both are quite fun. That's a cheap round to shoot, too.