The Holy Spirit and The Holy Ghost are the Same

[Zathura]

I have read through that thread, I don’t agree with your ultimate conclusion because it’s clear to me that the Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost. A simple study of the Greek Bible takes you a long way.

That doesn’t mean that you’re essentially still correct in the majority of what you have said. It doesn’t mean that the Davidic Servant can’t have a calling that is involved with the Holy Spirit in a way that nobody else is, but I simply do not believe that the Holy Ghost is a person, and individual. It’s the Holy Spirit , the Spirit of Christ.

In addition to my own personal study and revelation, the arguments that I’ve read from various people that the Holy Ghost and Spirit are the same have been very persuasive , very clear. I’ve been persuaded by your posts on the topic of the Davidic Servant with the exception that the Holy Ghost is a personage and is the Davidic Servant, I don’t see it. The only weak point of your entire theory on the topic is this one aspect, the part where you say the Holy Ghost is the Davidic Servant. The argument just isn’t as strong as those arguments that show the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit.

I think you could easily take the entirety of what you’ve said on the topic of the Davidic Servant and reconcile it with the idea that the Holy Ghost = Holy Spirit and you could end up with almost the exact same beliefs, with small tweaks.

Stahura,

If you do not believe the Holy Ghost is a person, then please explain John 14 - 16. Is Jesus referring to Himself? Is it a coincidence that the Comforter of John 16 who reproves the world of sin and judgement just happens to align with the description of the Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11 who also reproves the world of sin and judgement?

In whose name do we baptize? Why are three persons listed? Notice how we don't say "Jesus" in the prayer - why not? The way it's worded, these three offices are titles, and actual names of each individual are left out.

I appreciate your kind words above - I really do. However, the conclusion that there is no individual who occupies the office of The Holy Ghost is no small matter. If he exists, every effort to make it seem he doesn't helps the adversary.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)


He exists.

The fact that I've grown up in the church and never heard of the fact that there is one angel of the Lord advocating for Israel, and our modern scriptures support this .... blows my mind. There is a nameless angel who is a freaking pillar of fire for Israel and nobody stops and asks, "Hey who is this guy?" It's almost like a spirit of deep sleep has been poured out upon us all.

Are you familiar with programming? The thing with debugging is that in fixing one bug, you might create or unveil another 3. There's a funny gif I see all the time of a funny little character with a wrench. He fixes a leaking pipe. However, once he tightens one part of the pipe, a portion of the pipe to the left starts leaking. When he fixes that portion, 2 more parts leak. When he fixes those parts, the portion of the pipe coming out of the ceiling bursts!

So it is with these types of discussions(Hence why I like them). It can branch off into so many directions.

So, going down the branch of titles..

In the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ is THE ETERNAL FATHER. He is both the Father and the Son. I got myself a replica of the 1835 edition, and it refers to him as the Eternal Father, not the Son of the Eternal Father. This does not mean he did not have a Father, but it does mean he acted in both the role of Father and Son. How far do those roles extend then?

In Mosiah, Abinadi makes this clear that Jesus is the Father and the Son. That same Jesus descends from heaven in 3 Nephi 11 and then commands them to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. So is that Jesus, Jesus, Davidic Servant? Is that Jesus Father, Jesus, Davidic Servant?

You don't need to answer those questions, they are hypothetical. I only pose those questions to say that even if it seems that certain things line up at first glance, they might not actually line up. Things aren't always as cut and dry as they seem.

Is it a coincidence that the Comforter of John 16 who reproves the world of sin and judgement just happens to align with the description of the Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11 who also reproves the world of sin and judgement?

It very well may be just a coincidence.

Let me use the topic of Justification and Sanctification as an example real quick.

Moses 6:60 says we are justified by the Spirit and Sanctified by the blood of Christ.
D&C 20:30 says we are justified by grace and sanctified by grace
Romans 5:1 says we are justified by faith
1 Corinthians 6:11 says we are justified by the Spirit
3 Nephi 27 says we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Alma 5:54 says we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit

I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Spirit. I'm told we are sanctified by the blood of Christ.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Blood of Christ. I'm told we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Spirit, I'm told we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Justified by Faith. I'm told we are justified by grace or by the Spirit.

Yet the Scriptures testify that we are sanctified by all 3?
The scriptures testify that we are also justified by Faith, Grace, and the Spirit
There may be many scriptures that seem to contradict each other when they don't contradict each other at all, they are all true, it's just a matter of looking at a topic from a different angle.

There are also probably plenty of scriptures that seem to be saying the exact same thing that aren't saying the same thing at all. it's just using the same phrase uttered elsewhere. I've never quite thought of this before, so I'll have to go study to find some examples.

I'm not being closed-minded by any means, I frequently revisit topics. I've had too many scriptures suddenly become profound on the 100th time reading it to stop revisiting topics. I have gone back and pondered whether or not the Holy Ghost and Spirit are the same thing many times. I have often pondered the identity of the Holy Ghost, if he really were a personage. I will certainly continue to revisit this topic.

If I had to give you my full opinion, it's this.

The Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the same thing. First, given the context that each of them is used, they appear interchangeable.

Second, Holy Ghost is always an IT, never a HE.(Every time the term Holy Ghost is explicitly used).

Third, the original greek word was the same in every instance, translators could have used the term "Spirit" instead and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Fourth, I believe Lectures on Faith is one of the most important sections of scripture in existence.
I believe Joseph knew precisely what he was saying when he said that there are 2 personages in the Godhead that are one through the MIND/SPIRIT of God and that all the disciples of God can be one with God and Jesus through that same MIND/SPIRIT

Fifth, the section that teaches that the Holy Ghost is a personage is Section 130. William Clayton was not a scribe for any revelations except magically for 130, a section that directly contradicts Lectures on Faith and allegedly section 132 that was conveniently lost but copied by some random nobody (Kingsbury) who was even less likely to have anything to do with Joseph's revelations than even William Clayton and left in a trunk for a decade before BY decided to reveal it to the church. D&C 130 wasn't a revelation, SJR3t2 points this out.

Sixth, I think it possible for Joseph to be incorrect on somethings, that could apply both to the things I'm making an appeal to(Lectures on Faith) and the things you're making an appeal to(Words of Joseph Smith).

I think it'd be very easy to see references to "The Spirit of the Lord" that visited Nephi and eventually begin calling it the "Holy Ghost" because it sounds like it makes sense. Both phrases seem to indicate the same thing, they are both "spirit" and "of the Lord". IMO, this is where the confusion begins. I think it's perfectly reasonable to backtrack, cease using the term "Holy Ghost" as a synonym for the Spirit of the Lord that appeared to that prophet(Not to be confused with the Spirit of the Lord that falls upon the Saints), and you can still have almost the entire teaching of the Davidic Servant that you have spread on this forum.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Spirit that Appeared to Nephi is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Spirit that Appeared to Nephi is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

If Joseph was wrong, or his words were written down incorrectly, it's possible what he really meant, or SHOULD HAVE said is the above(See what inserted in blue).
And thus, almost your entire theory remains true AND a proper understanding of the Spirit of the Lord is retained.

Stahura are you software engineer, I am, and I know exactly what you are talking about regarding the debugging process. I also see it in figuring out doctrine as well. It's all inter-related. And in fat I have even said like a hologram before. https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/11/24/hologram/

I can't quite call myself a software engineer yet, but I'm worked with a few different languages and types of projects. I've worked with Databases and helped create websites at a startup, I've studied Data Structures and Algorithms and a few other subjects etc. Maybe one day I think I might enjoy Databases more tbh.

Interesting post I'm gonna check that out tonight.

[Zathura]

What was I saying earlier about the adversary working overtime to disappear the Holy Ghost and the the Apocrypha is at the center of that battle?

My wife asked that I look for (and purchase lol - she's pregnant so that's OK) a father's day present for myself, and suggested a collection of Apocryphal works. One and a half hours later I'm still unsure what to buy I felt prompted, ironically (ironically because the power of the Holy Ghost) to read the Apocalypse of Thomas. What do you know... A hidden angel is said to be revealed at the end. What another another another another coincidence but please... What were you saying about the Holy Ghost not existing?

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

Nobody has ever said the Holy Ghost doesn't Exist? Why do you keep claiming someone has said this?

He posted a very good point.

Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

It's evident here that Alma and Mormon are referring to the same Godhead and thus the Holy Spirit must also be the same thing as The Holy Ghost.

Both me and this other brother are saying the Holy Ghost exists, it just also goes by another name "The Holy Spirit".

[Zathura]

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

In no way does this suggest HE MUST BE THE HOLY GHOST.
It only suggests that the Davidic Servant is real and truly has an important calling, thus confirming a majority of your claims on the topic.

[SJR3t2]

Stahura,

If you do not believe the Holy Ghost is a person, then please explain John 14 - 16. Is Jesus referring to Himself? Is it a coincidence that the Comforter of John 16 who reproves the world of sin and judgement just happens to align with the description of the Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11 who also reproves the world of sin and judgement?

In whose name do we baptize? Why are three persons listed? Notice how we don't say "Jesus" in the prayer - why not? The way it's worded, these three offices are titles, and actual names of each individual are left out.

I appreciate your kind words above - I really do. However, the conclusion that there is no individual who occupies the office of The Holy Ghost is no small matter. If he exists, every effort to make it seem he doesn't helps the adversary.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)


He exists.

The fact that I've grown up in the church and never heard of the fact that there is one angel of the Lord advocating for Israel, and our modern scriptures support this .... blows my mind. There is a nameless angel who is a freaking pillar of fire for Israel and nobody stops and asks, "Hey who is this guy?" It's almost like a spirit of deep sleep has been poured out upon us all.

Are you familiar with programming? The thing with debugging is that in fixing one bug, you might create or unveil another 3. There's a funny gif I see all the time of a funny little character with a wrench. He fixes a leaking pipe. However, once he tightens one part of the pipe, a portion of the pipe to the left starts leaking. When he fixes that portion, 2 more parts leak. When he fixes those parts, the portion of the pipe coming out of the ceiling bursts!

So it is with these types of discussions(Hence why I like them). It can branch off into so many directions.

So, going down the branch of titles..

In the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ is THE ETERNAL FATHER. He is both the Father and the Son. I got myself a replica of the 1835 edition, and it refers to him as the Eternal Father, not the Son of the Eternal Father. This does not mean he did not have a Father, but it does mean he acted in both the role of Father and Son. How far do those roles extend then?

In Mosiah, Abinadi makes this clear that Jesus is the Father and the Son. That same Jesus descends from heaven in 3 Nephi 11 and then commands them to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. So is that Jesus, Jesus, Davidic Servant? Is that Jesus Father, Jesus, Davidic Servant?

You don't need to answer those questions, they are hypothetical. I only pose those questions to say that even if it seems that certain things line up at first glance, they might not actually line up. Things aren't always as cut and dry as they seem.

Is it a coincidence that the Comforter of John 16 who reproves the world of sin and judgement just happens to align with the description of the Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11 who also reproves the world of sin and judgement?

It very well may be just a coincidence.

Let me use the topic of Justification and Sanctification as an example real quick.

Moses 6:60 says we are justified by the Spirit and Sanctified by the blood of Christ.
D&C 20:30 says we are justified by grace and sanctified by grace
Romans 5:1 says we are justified by faith
1 Corinthians 6:11 says we are justified by the Spirit
3 Nephi 27 says we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Alma 5:54 says we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit

I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Spirit. I'm told we are sanctified by the blood of Christ.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Blood of Christ. I'm told we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Sanctified by the Spirit, I'm told we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I've had people correct me when I say we are Justified by Faith. I'm told we are justified by grace or by the Spirit.

Yet the Scriptures testify that we are sanctified by all 3?
The scriptures testify that we are also justified by Faith, Grace, and the Spirit
There may be many scriptures that seem to contradict each other when they don't contradict each other at all, they are all true, it's just a matter of looking at a topic from a different angle.

There are also probably plenty of scriptures that seem to be saying the exact same thing that aren't saying the same thing at all. it's just using the same phrase uttered elsewhere. I've never quite thought of this before, so I'll have to go study to find some examples.

I'm not being closed-minded by any means, I frequently revisit topics. I've had too many scriptures suddenly become profound on the 100th time reading it to stop revisiting topics. I have gone back and pondered whether or not the Holy Ghost and Spirit are the same thing many times. I have often pondered the identity of the Holy Ghost, if he really were a personage. I will certainly continue to revisit this topic.

If I had to give you my full opinion, it's this.

The Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the same thing. First, given the context that each of them is used, they appear interchangeable.

Second, Holy Ghost is always an IT, never a HE.(Every time the term Holy Ghost is explicitly used).

Third, the original greek word was the same in every instance, translators could have used the term "Spirit" instead and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Fourth, I believe Lectures on Faith is one of the most important sections of scripture in existence.
I believe Joseph knew precisely what he was saying when he said that there are 2 personages in the Godhead that are one through the MIND/SPIRIT of God and that all the disciples of God can be one with God and Jesus through that same MIND/SPIRIT

Fifth, the section that teaches that the Holy Ghost is a personage is Section 130. William Clayton was not a scribe for any revelations except magically for 130, a section that directly contradicts Lectures on Faith and allegedly section 132 that was conveniently lost but copied by some random nobody (Kingsbury) who was even less likely to have anything to do with Joseph's revelations than even William Clayton and left in a trunk for a decade before BY decided to reveal it to the church. D&C 130 wasn't a revelation, SJR3t2 points this out.

Sixth, I think it possible for Joseph to be incorrect on somethings, that could apply both to the things I'm making an appeal to(Lectures on Faith) and the things you're making an appeal to(Words of Joseph Smith).

I think it'd be very easy to see references to "The Spirit of the Lord" that visited Nephi and eventually begin calling it the "Holy Ghost" because it sounds like it makes sense. Both phrases seem to indicate the same thing, they are both "spirit" and "of the Lord". IMO, this is where the confusion begins. I think it's perfectly reasonable to backtrack, cease using the term "Holy Ghost" as a synonym for the Spirit of the Lord that appeared to that prophet(Not to be confused with the Spirit of the Lord that falls upon the Saints), and you can still have almost the entire teaching of the Davidic Servant that you have spread on this forum.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Spirit that Appeared to Nephi is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Spirit that Appeared to Nephi is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

If Joseph was wrong, or his words were written down incorrectly, it's possible what he really meant, or SHOULD HAVE said is the above(See what inserted in blue).
And thus, almost your entire theory remains true AND a proper understanding of the Spirit of the Lord is retained.

Stahura are you software engineer, I am, and I know exactly what you are talking about regarding the debugging process. I also see it in figuring out doctrine as well. It's all inter-related. And in fat I have even said like a hologram before. https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/11/24/hologram/

I can't quite call myself a software engineer yet, but I'm worked with a few different languages and types of projects. I've worked with Databases and helped create websites at a startup, I've studied Data Structures and Algorithms and a few other subjects etc. Maybe one day I think I might enjoy Databases more tbh.

Interesting post I'm gonna check that out tonight.

Personally I have found that the best way to become a software engineer is to have a project you want to work on and then get to work doing it. Book smarts is helpful, but I know so many who have tons of book smarts in the industry that just don't know what to do with it other than rattle it off to make themselves look good. I'm self taught, and am always continuing to learn more in the field as I do in other areas of my life.

[Alaris]

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

In no way does this suggest HE MUST BE THE HOLY GHOST.
It only suggests that the Davidic Servant is real and truly has an important calling, thus confirming a majority of your claims on the topic.

You're right, - in no way does this suggest that this hidden angel who is hidden from the foundation of the world is the same as the hidden servant who Jesus mentioned to the Nephites and commanded Mormon to share with us (or the commandment to us to search diligently the words of Isaiah) - in no way does it say that this angel who is revealed at the end is the same as the Holy Ghost who also happens to be apart of the Godhead and who also happens to have a hidden identity. My mistake.

This is just another another X (I lost count) coincidence that there is a hidden God, er Angel, who is revealed at the end times. I'm sure John worshiping the angel who delivered revelation is all a big misunderstanding. Nothing to see here folks!

[Alaris]

What was I saying earlier about the adversary working overtime to disappear the Holy Ghost and the the Apocrypha is at the center of that battle?

My wife asked that I look for (and purchase lol - she's pregnant so that's OK) a father's day present for myself, and suggested a collection of Apocryphal works. One and a half hours later I'm still unsure what to buy I felt prompted, ironically (ironically because the power of the Holy Ghost) to read the Apocalypse of Thomas. What do you know... A hidden angel is said to be revealed at the end. What another another another another coincidence but please... What were you saying about the Holy Ghost not existing?

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

Nobody has ever said the Holy Ghost doesn't Exist? Why do you keep claiming someone has said this?

He posted a very good point.

Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

It's evident here that Alma and Mormon are referring to the same Godhead and thus the Holy Spirit must also be the same thing as The Holy Ghost.

Both me and this other brother are saying the Holy Ghost exists, it just also goes by another name "The Holy Spirit".

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

[Zathura]

What was I saying earlier about the adversary working overtime to disappear the Holy Ghost and the the Apocrypha is at the center of that battle?

My wife asked that I look for (and purchase lol - she's pregnant so that's OK) a father's day present for myself, and suggested a collection of Apocryphal works. One and a half hours later I'm still unsure what to buy I felt prompted, ironically (ironically because the power of the Holy Ghost) to read the Apocalypse of Thomas. What do you know... A hidden angel is said to be revealed at the end. What another another another another coincidence but please... What were you saying about the Holy Ghost not existing?

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

Nobody has ever said the Holy Ghost doesn't Exist? Why do you keep claiming someone has said this?

He posted a very good point.

Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

It's evident here that Alma and Mormon are referring to the same Godhead and thus the Holy Spirit must also be the same thing as The Holy Ghost.

Both me and this other brother are saying the Holy Ghost exists, it just also goes by another name "The Holy Spirit".

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

[Zathura]

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

In no way does this suggest HE MUST BE THE HOLY GHOST.
It only suggests that the Davidic Servant is real and truly has an important calling, thus confirming a majority of your claims on the topic.

You're right, - in no way does this suggest that this hidden angel who is hidden from the foundation of the world is the same as the hidden servant who Jesus mentioned to the Nephites and commanded Mormon to share with us (or the commandment to us to search diligently the words of Isaiah) - in no way does it say that this angel who is revealed at the end is the same as the Holy Ghost who also happens to be apart of the Godhead and who also happens to have a hidden identity. My mistake.

This is just another another X (I lost count) coincidence that there is a hidden God, er Angel, who is revealed at the end times. I'm sure John worshiping the angel who delivered revelation is all a big misunderstanding. Nothing to see here folks!

Whoa there, the wave of truth is a little too strong.

[Alaris]

What was I saying earlier about the adversary working overtime to disappear the Holy Ghost and the the Apocrypha is at the center of that battle?

My wife asked that I look for (and purchase lol - she's pregnant so that's OK) a father's day present for myself, and suggested a collection of Apocryphal works. One and a half hours later I'm still unsure what to buy I felt prompted, ironically (ironically because the power of the Holy Ghost) to read the Apocalypse of Thomas. What do you know... A hidden angel is said to be revealed at the end. What another another another another coincidence but please... What were you saying about the Holy Ghost not existing?

And when the seven days are passed by, on the eighth day at the sixth hour there shall be a sweet and tender voice in heaven from the east. Then shall that angel be revealed which hath power over the holy angels: and all the angels shall go forth with him, sitting upon chariots of the clouds of mine holy Father (so) rejoicing and running upon the air beneath the heaven to deliver the elect that have believed in me. And they shall rejoice that the destruction of this world hath come.

Apocalypse of Thomas

http://gnosis.org/library/apcthom.htm

Nobody has ever said the Holy Ghost doesn't Exist? Why do you keep claiming someone has said this?

He posted a very good point.

Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

It's evident here that Alma and Mormon are referring to the same Godhead and thus the Holy Spirit must also be the same thing as The Holy Ghost.

Both me and this other brother are saying the Holy Ghost exists, it just also goes by another name "The Holy Spirit".

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

[Zathura]

Nobody has ever said the Holy Ghost doesn't Exist? Why do you keep claiming someone has said this?

He posted a very good point.

Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

It's evident here that Alma and Mormon are referring to the same Godhead and thus the Holy Spirit must also be the same thing as The Holy Ghost.

Both me and this other brother are saying the Holy Ghost exists, it just also goes by another name "The Holy Spirit".

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

[SJR3t2]

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

Sadly it's common, as the LDS talk I bring up in my post. McConkie did it to, and would not explain it but would tell people to hell for not believing both, but no expounding. He's just doing the exact same thing as LDS leaders. Monkey see monkey do.

[Alaris]

My mistake - he exists .. he just exists in the nice periphery of our comfort zones and will maintain his namelessness forever.

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

[SJR3t2]

Okay, so what is your explanation for those 2 prophets using Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit for the same thing ? Was one of them wrong?

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

[Alaris]

Oh that? Oh, well I agree with Mormon and Amulek wholeheartedly....oh and Nephi:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

I wasn't singling out anyone with my comment about not believing the Holy Ghost exists but anyone who tries to disappear him by wresting the Lectures of Faith.

Holy Spirit = Holy Ghost

I've just been a little more hijacky here since S3RT#@#! likes to bash the church in his articles he posts - almost like he can't help himself. But, as you can see, I can't help myself either!

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Ohhhhh I see what's going on here. There is a great, ironic, lesson here. Lectures on Faith is not doctrine ... I know I know. Sad. Trying to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a non-doctrinal text, saying it's representative of the church today, and then using it to bash the church isn't ....what's the word ... honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Faith

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life.

Here's the lesson in Irony - much like the Apocrypha, if you read LoF by the Spirit then ... well you can profit therefrom.

I'm sorry SJR2D2, but you cannot take your interpretation on LoF, then bash the church with it. The Holy Spirit - who is a person - is the mind and will of the Father and the Son - and when we are moved upon by his power? Well you have this:

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Would you look at that! That sorta explains a lot, doesn't it? By that same power we can also be the mind of the Lord. See, I interpret LoF 5:2 differently than you. Three separate beings are mentioned at the onset, well several times it's mentioned: "These three" these three." Then only a Father and Son is mentioned and we erase the Holy Spirit? Huh!? Here's a clue to decipher this mystery. The titles "Father "and "Son" apply to all three - well "Son" applies to all three. Who is the beloved servant of Jehovah and who is his Father when the beloved shall become a prince forever over Israel?

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Ah yes - pronouns. Pronouns in the scriptures is why there are so very many churches out there, and I believe this is by design. What is "it?" You can find a bunch of scriptures that refer to Jesus as "it" - I could do it for you but meh. The comforter that quickeneth all things and maketh alive all things ... wait isn't it that angel in D&C 88 - that same angel who announces the fall of babylon who also accomplishes the first resurrection. Hey wait a minute! The angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost! I'm pretty sure "it" here is "the record of heaven" - which comes from the Comforter (see D&C 85:7)

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I'll use this same example I used elsewhere. Did Jesus or Joseph Smith accomplish the restoration of the church? Who is the light of Jehovah? (see Isaiah 49)

[SJR3t2]

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Ohhhhh I see what's going on here. There is a great, ironic, lesson here. Lectures on Faith is not doctrine ... I know I know. Sad. Trying to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a non-doctrinal text, saying it's representative of the church today, and then using it to bash the church isn't ....what's the word ... honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Faith

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life.

I'm sorry SJR2D2, but you cannot take your interpretation on LoF, then bash the church with it. The Holy Spirit - who is a person - is the mind and will of the Father and the Son - and when we are moved upon by his power? Well you have this:

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Would you look at that! That sorta explains a lot, doesn't it? By that same power we can also be the mind of the Lord. See, I interpret LoF 5:2 differently than you. Three separate beings are mentioned at the onset, well several times it's mentioned: "These three" these three." Then only a Father and Son is mentioned and we erase the Holy Spirit? Huh!? Here's a clue to decipher this mystery. The titles "Father "and "Son" apply to all three - well "Son" applies to all three. Who is the beloved servant of Jehovah and who is his Father when the beloved shall become a prince forever over Israel?

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Ah yes - pronouns. Pronouns in the scriptures is why there are so very many churches out there, and I believe this is by design. What is "it?" You can find a bunch of scriptures that refer to Jesus as "it" - I could do it for you but meh. The comforter that quickeneth all things and maketh alive all things ... wait isn't it that angel in D&C 88 - that same angel who announces the fall of babylon who also accomplishes the first resurrection. Hey wait a minute! The angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost! I'm pretty sure "it" here is "the record of heaven" - which comes from the Comforter (see D&C 85:7)

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I'll use this same example I used elsewhere. Did Jesus or Joseph Smith accomplish the restoration of the church? Who is the light of Jehovah? (see Isaiah 49)

uh, check the 1835 D&C, which I bring up in the post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/, it states the Lectures on Faith is the doctrine of the D&C.

[SJR3t2]

Hahah..
Well I’m confused now.
If you agree that the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Holy Spirit I don’t understand how you can then believe the Holy Ghost is a Personage. The church distinguished between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, you have to distinguish them in order to say the Holy Ghost is a personage.

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Ohhhhh I see what's going on here. There is a great, ironic, lesson here. Lectures on Faith is not doctrine ... I know I know. Sad. Trying to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a non-doctrinal text, saying it's representative of the church today, and then using it to bash the church isn't ....what's the word ... honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Faith

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life.

Here's the lesson in Irony - much like the Apocrypha, if you read LoF by the Spirit then ... well you can profit therefrom.

I'm sorry SJR2D2, but you cannot take your interpretation on LoF, then bash the church with it. The Holy Spirit - who is a person - is the mind and will of the Father and the Son - and when we are moved upon by his power? Well you have this:

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Would you look at that! That sorta explains a lot, doesn't it? By that same power we can also be the mind of the Lord. See, I interpret LoF 5:2 differently than you. Three separate beings are mentioned at the onset, well several times it's mentioned: "These three" these three." Then only a Father and Son is mentioned and we erase the Holy Spirit? Huh!? Here's a clue to decipher this mystery. The titles "Father "and "Son" apply to all three - well "Son" applies to all three. Who is the beloved servant of Jehovah and who is his Father when the beloved shall become a prince forever over Israel?

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Ah yes - pronouns. Pronouns in the scriptures is why there are so very many churches out there, and I believe this is by design. What is "it?" You can find a bunch of scriptures that refer to Jesus as "it" - I could do it for you but meh. The comforter that quickeneth all things and maketh alive all things ... wait isn't it that angel in D&C 88 - that same angel who announces the fall of babylon who also accomplishes the first resurrection. Hey wait a minute! The angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost! I'm pretty sure "it" here is "the record of heaven" - which comes from the Comforter (see D&C 85:7)

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I'll use this same example I used elsewhere. Did Jesus or Joseph Smith accomplish the restoration of the church? Who is the light of Jehovah? (see Isaiah 49)

Well good luck to you, this is going no where fast. We for sure understand the same scriptures differently.

[righteousrepublic]

Alaris.
The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same exact thing in the context of the Bible and the Book of Mormon and D&C and the Pearl of Great Price. The effort that he went through and the information he provided is every bit as solid (and more so, because the ONLY sources he used are canon, whereas you draw upon other sources to help your case) as the effort and stuff you have written about on your own topic. If you ask people to sincerely study your own work on the Davidic Servant, I suggest you do the same on his work On the Holy Ghost, you can then reconcile what he has come up with with what you have come up with.

Idk why he had to lead with a page of talking about Joseph and Brigham before finally getting to the main subject, but whatever.

That doesn’t mean that everything you’ve come to believe about this “Angel of the Lord” isn’t true. You can easily drop the possibility that ever mention of “Holy Ghost” refers to a personage and yet still believe the entirety of what you have written about the Davidic Servant, this Angel of the Lord. All you need to do is realize it may have been a mistake using the term “Holy Ghost” to refer to this Davidic Servant, someone at some point got confused.

I see you added my name there, which is helpful because I was struggling to make sense of what you said. I use canonical scriptures all over the place - all over my posts, all over my blog. The extra-canonical sources are additional layers. If you want to write a critique on my conclusions, read through this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=48060

The Angel of the Lord has an overtly hidden identity
The Davidic Servant has an overtly hidden identity
The Holy Ghost - you guessed it

Now, that's already a large coincidence for a time and season where we are supposed to have all things revealed to us. Might these secrets be related? Yes, and in the most simple form imaginable. They are all the same person. The servant of Isaiah - the servant in the hands of Christ who is the Rod of Jesse - is the heir of Jesus Christ....

Simple phrases we repeat regularly in our ordinances will have many layers of depth of meaning added when all of this is revealed.

"that we may always have His spirit to be with us."

"I say unto you, receive the Holy Ghost"

Last but not least:

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of The Holy Ghost. Amen"

Baptisms would all become null and void if there is no actual name of an individual behind the Holy Ghost.

[Alaris]

You're confused? You just showed two scriptures from the most correct book on earth that equates the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I don't know what you mean by "the church distinguished" - are you trying to conflate "the church distinguished" and your take on the LoF?

Do we need to have a discussion on the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost?

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Ohhhhh I see what's going on here. There is a great, ironic, lesson here. Lectures on Faith is not doctrine ... I know I know. Sad. Trying to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a non-doctrinal text, saying it's representative of the church today, and then using it to bash the church isn't ....what's the word ... honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Faith

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life.

I'm sorry SJR2D2, but you cannot take your interpretation on LoF, then bash the church with it. The Holy Spirit - who is a person - is the mind and will of the Father and the Son - and when we are moved upon by his power? Well you have this:

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Would you look at that! That sorta explains a lot, doesn't it? By that same power we can also be the mind of the Lord. See, I interpret LoF 5:2 differently than you. Three separate beings are mentioned at the onset, well several times it's mentioned: "These three" these three." Then only a Father and Son is mentioned and we erase the Holy Spirit? Huh!? Here's a clue to decipher this mystery. The titles "Father "and "Son" apply to all three - well "Son" applies to all three. Who is the beloved servant of Jehovah and who is his Father when the beloved shall become a prince forever over Israel?

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Ah yes - pronouns. Pronouns in the scriptures is why there are so very many churches out there, and I believe this is by design. What is "it?" You can find a bunch of scriptures that refer to Jesus as "it" - I could do it for you but meh. The comforter that quickeneth all things and maketh alive all things ... wait isn't it that angel in D&C 88 - that same angel who announces the fall of babylon who also accomplishes the first resurrection. Hey wait a minute! The angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost! I'm pretty sure "it" here is "the record of heaven" - which comes from the Comforter (see D&C 85:7)

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I'll use this same example I used elsewhere. Did Jesus or Joseph Smith accomplish the restoration of the church? Who is the light of Jehovah? (see Isaiah 49)

uh, check the 1835 D&C, which I bring up in the post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/, it states the Lectures on Faith is the doctrine of the D&C.

The 1835 D&C is not the 2019 D&C. You don't see the irony in using 1835's doctrine to bash the church today? If the church is led by a living prophet, and it is, then how can you not see how silly a "bashing" this is? Let me post this part again from my post above in case you missed it last time:

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life (1843-1844)

I added the years there at the end for your convenience. I really don't know what your point is or how it bashes the church, and I really don't care. And, I won't excuse myself for using this thread that where the OP is clearly an intentional deceptive bait-and-switch to enjoy discussing the meaty truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ at the expense of those who would fight against it.

[Alaris]

Alaris.
The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same exact thing in the context of the Bible and the Book of Mormon and D&C and the Pearl of Great Price. The effort that he went through and the information he provided is every bit as solid (and more so, because the ONLY sources he used are canon, whereas you draw upon other sources to help your case) as the effort and stuff you have written about on your own topic. If you ask people to sincerely study your own work on the Davidic Servant, I suggest you do the same on his work On the Holy Ghost, you can then reconcile what he has come up with with what you have come up with.

Idk why he had to lead with a page of talking about Joseph and Brigham before finally getting to the main subject, but whatever.

That doesn’t mean that everything you’ve come to believe about this “Angel of the Lord” isn’t true. You can easily drop the possibility that ever mention of “Holy Ghost” refers to a personage and yet still believe the entirety of what you have written about the Davidic Servant, this Angel of the Lord. All you need to do is realize it may have been a mistake using the term “Holy Ghost” to refer to this Davidic Servant, someone at some point got confused.

I see you added my name there, which is helpful because I was struggling to make sense of what you said. I use canonical scriptures all over the place - all over my posts, all over my blog. The extra-canonical sources are additional layers. If you want to write a critique on my conclusions, read through this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=48060

The Angel of the Lord has an overtly hidden identity
The Davidic Servant has an overtly hidden identity
The Holy Ghost - you guessed it

Now, that's already a large coincidence for a time and season where we are supposed to have all things revealed to us. Might these secrets be related? Yes, and in the most simple form imaginable. They are all the same person. The servant of Isaiah - the servant in the hands of Christ who is the Rod of Jesse - is the heir of Jesus Christ....

Simple phrases we repeat regularly in our ordinances will have many layers of depth of meaning added when all of this is revealed.

"that we may always have His spirit to be with us."

"I say unto you, receive the Holy Ghost"

Last but not least:

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of The Holy Ghost. Amen"

Baptisms would all become null and void if there is no actual name of an individual behind the Holy Ghost.

Haha SRJ3PO thanks you for your post - lol

[SJR3t2]

if the HG is the Comforter, which I know no one who says it's not, then the HG is the light of Christ, as they have the same things applied to these titles in SCRIPTURES.

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son
Lectures on Faith 5:2

possessing the same MIND with the Father, which MIND is the HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same MIND, the same WISDOM, GLORY, POWER and FULNESS: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the MIND, glory and power, or, in other words, the SPIRIT, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the MIND of the Father, or, in other words, the SPIRIT of the Father:
Lectures on Faith 5:2

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Ohhhhh I see what's going on here. There is a great, ironic, lesson here. Lectures on Faith is not doctrine ... I know I know. Sad. Trying to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a non-doctrinal text, saying it's representative of the church today, and then using it to bash the church isn't ....what's the word ... honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Faith

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life.

I'm sorry SJR2D2, but you cannot take your interpretation on LoF, then bash the church with it. The Holy Spirit - who is a person - is the mind and will of the Father and the Son - and when we are moved upon by his power? Well you have this:

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Would you look at that! That sorta explains a lot, doesn't it? By that same power we can also be the mind of the Lord. See, I interpret LoF 5:2 differently than you. Three separate beings are mentioned at the onset, well several times it's mentioned: "These three" these three." Then only a Father and Son is mentioned and we erase the Holy Spirit? Huh!? Here's a clue to decipher this mystery. The titles "Father "and "Son" apply to all three - well "Son" applies to all three. Who is the beloved servant of Jehovah and who is his Father when the beloved shall become a prince forever over Israel?

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Ah yes - pronouns. Pronouns in the scriptures is why there are so very many churches out there, and I believe this is by design. What is "it?" You can find a bunch of scriptures that refer to Jesus as "it" - I could do it for you but meh. The comforter that quickeneth all things and maketh alive all things ... wait isn't it that angel in D&C 88 - that same angel who announces the fall of babylon who also accomplishes the first resurrection. Hey wait a minute! The angel of the Lord is the Holy Ghost! I'm pretty sure "it" here is "the record of heaven" - which comes from the Comforter (see D&C 85:7)

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I'll use this same example I used elsewhere. Did Jesus or Joseph Smith accomplish the restoration of the church? Who is the light of Jehovah? (see Isaiah 49)

uh, check the 1835 D&C, which I bring up in the post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/, it states the Lectures on Faith is the doctrine of the D&C.

The 1835 D&C is not the 2019 D&C. You don't see the irony in using 1835's doctrine to bash the church today? If the church is led by a living prophet, and it is, then how can you not see how silly a "bashing" this is? Let me post this part again from my post above in case you missed it last time:

For anyone genuinely confused by this, consider that the Lectures on Faith was published in 1835 and later removed from our modern scriptures. Consider that some of the most amazing, meaty truths came from Joseph Smith closer to the time of his death - The King Follet Sermon, the prophesy on the Latter-day David and uncoincidentally the prophesy that the Holy Ghost would take upon himself a body - all in the last 1-2 years of his life (1843-1844)

I added the years there at the end for your convenience. I really don't know what your point is or how it bashes the church, and I really don't care. And, I won't excuse myself for using this thread that where the OP is clearly an intentional deceptive bait-and-switch to enjoy discussing the meaty truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ at the expense of those who would fight against it.

Even the current version of the LDS scriptures say that modification of the D&C needs common consent, which was not recieved for the removal, FYI that is why OD are OD and not D&C.

FYI King Follet Sermon was never put into the D&C, but Lectures on Faith was. Another FYI McConkie considered it scriptures and worth study long after it was removed.

The LDS "prophet" has not fruits of the titles he claims.

In Matt 7:15-20 Jesus teaches us that we shall know prophets by their fruits. Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Jesus did not say you shall know their fruits of being a prophet after you believe you believe they are a prophet. On the contrary, Jesus is showing us one important principle of not being deceived. Before you can know that some is the title that they claim to have from God, you must know of their fruits. We must have knowledge of the fruits of the title before we can study it out in our minds before we take it to the Lord for confirmation that the title comes from Him, see D&C 9:8.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

[SJR3t2]

Alaris.
The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same exact thing in the context of the Bible and the Book of Mormon and D&C and the Pearl of Great Price. The effort that he went through and the information he provided is every bit as solid (and more so, because the ONLY sources he used are canon, whereas you draw upon other sources to help your case) as the effort and stuff you have written about on your own topic. If you ask people to sincerely study your own work on the Davidic Servant, I suggest you do the same on his work On the Holy Ghost, you can then reconcile what he has come up with with what you have come up with.

Idk why he had to lead with a page of talking about Joseph and Brigham before finally getting to the main subject, but whatever.

That doesn’t mean that everything you’ve come to believe about this “Angel of the Lord” isn’t true. You can easily drop the possibility that ever mention of “Holy Ghost” refers to a personage and yet still believe the entirety of what you have written about the Davidic Servant, this Angel of the Lord. All you need to do is realize it may have been a mistake using the term “Holy Ghost” to refer to this Davidic Servant, someone at some point got confused.

I see you added my name there, which is helpful because I was struggling to make sense of what you said. I use canonical scriptures all over the place - all over my posts, all over my blog. The extra-canonical sources are additional layers. If you want to write a critique on my conclusions, read through this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=48060

The Angel of the Lord has an overtly hidden identity
The Davidic Servant has an overtly hidden identity
The Holy Ghost - you guessed it

Now, that's already a large coincidence for a time and season where we are supposed to have all things revealed to us. Might these secrets be related? Yes, and in the most simple form imaginable. They are all the same person. The servant of Isaiah - the servant in the hands of Christ who is the Rod of Jesse - is the heir of Jesus Christ....

Simple phrases we repeat regularly in our ordinances will have many layers of depth of meaning added when all of this is revealed.

"that we may always have His spirit to be with us."

"I say unto you, receive the Holy Ghost"

Last but not least:

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of The Holy Ghost. Amen"

Baptisms would all become null and void if there is no actual name of an individual behind the Holy Ghost.

Haha SRJ3PO thanks you for your post - lol

You may want to check and think before you open your mouth, that was not from me, and your spelling my username incorrectly, hopefully by accident.

[Alaris]

I see you added my name there, which is helpful because I was struggling to make sense of what you said. I use canonical scriptures all over the place - all over my posts, all over my blog. The extra-canonical sources are additional layers. If you want to write a critique on my conclusions, read through this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=48060

The Angel of the Lord has an overtly hidden identity
The Davidic Servant has an overtly hidden identity
The Holy Ghost - you guessed it

Now, that's already a large coincidence for a time and season where we are supposed to have all things revealed to us. Might these secrets be related? Yes, and in the most simple form imaginable. They are all the same person. The servant of Isaiah - the servant in the hands of Christ who is the Rod of Jesse - is the heir of Jesus Christ....

Simple phrases we repeat regularly in our ordinances will have many layers of depth of meaning added when all of this is revealed.

"that we may always have His spirit to be with us."

"I say unto you, receive the Holy Ghost"

Last but not least:

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of The Holy Ghost. Amen"

Baptisms would all become null and void if there is no actual name of an individual behind the Holy Ghost.

Haha SRJ3PO thanks you for your post - lol

You may want to check and think before you open your mouth, that was not from me, and your spelling my username incorrectly, hopefully by accident.

Apologies for the intentional misspell (apparently I can't spell misspell, so take that into consideration.) I'm not laughing at you but at the strange bedfellows made there in that post.

[Alaris]

Even the current version of the LDS scriptures say that modification of the D&C needs common consent, which was not recieved for the removal, FYI that is why OD are OD and not D&C.

FYI King Follet Sermon was never put into the D&C, but Lectures on Faith was. Another FYI McConkie considered it scriptures and worth study long after it was removed.

The LDS "prophet" has not fruits of the titles he claims.

In Matt 7:15-20 Jesus teaches us that we shall know prophets by their fruits. Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Jesus did not say you shall know their fruits of being a prophet after you believe you believe they are a prophet. On the contrary, Jesus is showing us one important principle of not being deceived. Before you can know that some is the title that they claim to have from God, you must know of their fruits. We must have knowledge of the fruits of the title before we can study it out in our minds before we take it to the Lord for confirmation that the title comes from Him, see D&C 9:8.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

Fruits like posting a seemingly harmless discussion on the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit not being the same that is yet another example of deception and bait and switch?

King Follet is posted on lds.org. Is LoF? So ... again. Again. You're using LoF to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints---correction: You're using your interpretation of LoF to bash the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just so we're clear. I hope you understanding that throwing a very small rock gently against a brick wall is about as impactful.

[SJR3t2]

Haha SRJ3PO thanks you for your post - lol

You may want to check and think before you open your mouth, that was not from me, and your spelling my username incorrectly, hopefully by accident.

Apologies for the intentional misspell (apparently I can't spell misspell, so take that into consideration.) I'm not laughing at you but at the strange bedfellows made there in that post.

Please don't mispell my name in the future, it is not polite, apology accepted.

Christ made a lot of friends people in the "church" of his day didn't like either.

[Alaris]

Please don't mispell my name in the future, it is not polite, apology accepted.

Christ made a lot of friends people in the "church" of his day didn't like either.

Did He make friends of those who came into His space with deception in their hearts in an attempt to catch Him in His words? He was friends with the vilest of sinners - what was the difference?