The Holy Spirit and The Holy Ghost are the Same

[Contemplator]

Nowhere that I have found in the scriptures is the Godhead defined as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That is tradition.

1 Nephi 10
17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.
22 And the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things, and deny them not.

Sounds like the HG being one entity, right?

2 Nephi 16
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said: Here am I; send me.

Sounds like two separate individuals, correct?

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate entities, yet they think alike, act alike and do all things alike. This makes them all one in purpose.
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Now let's look at Luke 3:22
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

All three in just one sentence, right? Jesus in the water, the Holy Ghost descending upon him and the Father above saying "Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

Who here thinks that Jesus was a ventriloquist?

I am confused by your response to the part of my post that you quoted. I did not assert anything about the Identity of the Holy Ghost in what you quoted. Rather, I observed that the Godhead is not DEFINED in scripture as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yes, the scriptures often define the Father, Son and Holy Ghist as one god. This is an observation about the word Godhead. This is not an observation about the identity of the Holy Ghost. The scriptures you referred to are great. I just do not understand how they relate to defining the word Godhead. Can you help me with what you are trying to say?

Thanks

[SJR3t2]

More interested in scriptures than opinions

Who's scriptures exactly? And what do you see as an opinion?

For the record, I can't stand opinions given in place of scripture, either, but when someone speaks words that are backed by scripture then I can be enlightened and grateful.

Compare the above with this from LDS.org. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 8?lang=eng

Holy Ghost

The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit, without a body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). He is often referred to as the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, or the Comforter.

Roles of the Holy Ghost

The Holy Ghost works in perfect unity with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, fulfilling several roles to help you live righteously and receive the blessings of the gospel.

He “witnesses of the Father and the Son” (2 Nephi 31:18) and reveals and teaches “the truth of all things” (Moroni 10:5). You can receive a sure testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ only by the power of the Holy Ghost. His communication to your spirit carries far more certainty than any communication you can receive through your natural senses.

As you strive to stay on the path that leads to eternal life, the Holy Ghost “will show unto you all things what [you] should do” (see 2 Nephi 32:1–5). He can guide you in your decisions and protect you from physical and spiritual danger.

Through Him, you can receive gifts of the Spirit for your benefit and for the benefit of those you love and serve (see D&C 46:9–11).

He is the Comforter (John 14:26). As the soothing voice of a loving parent can quiet a crying child, the whisperings of the Spirit can calm your fears, hush the nagging worries of your life, and comfort you when you grieve. The Holy Ghost can fill you “with hope and perfect love” and “teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom” (Moroni 8:26; D&C 36:2).

Through His power, you are sanctified as you repent, receive the ordinances of baptism and confirmation, and remain true to your covenants (see Mosiah 5:1–6; 3 Nephi 27:20; Moses 6:64–68).

He is the Holy Spirit of Promise (see Ephesians 1:13; D&C 132:7, 18–19, 26). In this capacity, He confirms that the priesthood ordinances you have received and the covenants you have made are acceptable to God. This approval depends on your continued faithfulness.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost

All honest seekers of the truth can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost, leading them to Jesus Christ and His gospel. However, the fulness of the blessings given through the Holy Ghost are available only to those who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and remain worthy.

After you were baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, one or more Melchizedek Priesthood holders laid their hands on your head and, in a sacred priesthood ordinance, confirmed you a member of the Church. As part of this ordinance, called confirmation, you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is different from the influence of the Holy Ghost. Before your baptism, you could feel the influence of the Holy Ghost from time to time, and through that influence you could receive a testimony of the truth. Now that you have the gift of the Holy Ghost, you have the right to the constant companionship of that member of the Godhead if you keep the commandments.

Full enjoyment of the gift of the Holy Ghost includes receiving revelation and comfort, serving and blessing others through spiritual gifts, and being sanctified from sin and made fit for exaltation in the celestial kingdom. These blessings depend on your worthiness; they come a little at a time as you are ready for them. As you bring your life in harmony with God’s will, you gradually receive the Holy Ghost in great measure. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared that the mysteries of God’s kingdom “are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him” (see D&C 76:114–116).

Remember that “the Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples” (Helaman 4:24). Even though you have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit will dwell with you only when you keep the commandments. He will withdraw if you offend Him by profanity, uncleanliness, disobedience, rebellion, or other sins. Keep yourself clean. Fill your life with goodness so you can be worthy of the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost.
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Or how about this from Joseph Fielding Smith: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 8?lang=eng

Teachings of Joseph F. Smith
The gift of the Holy Ghost is an abiding witness.

The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, he constitutes the third person in the Trinity, the Godhead. The gift or presentation of the Holy Ghost is the authoritative act of conferring him upon man. The Holy Ghost in person may visit men and will visit those who are worthy and bear witness to their spirit of God and Christ, but may not tarry with them [see D&C 130:22–23].3

“The gift of the Holy Ghost,” is a special blessing sealed upon baptized repentant believers in Jesus Christ, and is “an abiding witness.” The spirit of God may be enjoyed as a temporary influence by which divine light and power come to mankind for special purposes and occasions. But the gift of the Holy Ghost, which … is bestowed in confirmation, is a permanent witness and higher endowment.4

How shall we obtain the Holy Ghost? The method or manner is clearly marked out. We are told to have faith in God, to believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of all who diligently seek him; to repent of our sins, subdue our passions, follies, and improprieties; to be virtuous, honest, and upright in all our dealings one with another, and enter into covenant with God that we will from thenceforth abide in the principles of truth, and observe the commandments which he has given us, then to be baptized for the remission of our sins, by one having authority; and when this ordinance of the gospel is complied with, we may receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands of those clothed with the authority of the Priesthood. Thus the Spirit and power of God—the Comforter—may be in us a well of water springing up unto everlasting life. He will bear record of the Father, testifying of Jesus, and “take of the things of the Father and reveal them unto us,” confirming our faith, establishing us in the truth, that we shall be no longer tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine; but shall “know of the doctrine” whether it be of God or of man [see Ephesians 4:14; John 7:17].5

The Holy Ghost, who bears record of the Father and the Son, who takes of the things of the Father and shows them unto men, who testifies of Jesus Christ, and of the everliving God, the Father of Jesus Christ, and who bears witness of the truth—this Spirit, this Intelligence, is not given unto all men until they repent of their sins and come into a state of worthiness before the Lord [see 3 Nephi 28:11]. Then they receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands of those who are authorized of God to bestow his blessings upon the heads of the children of men.6

The presentation or “gift” of the Holy Ghost simply confers upon a man the right to receive at any time, when he is worthy of it and desires it, the power and light of truth of the Holy Ghost, although he may often be left to his own spirit and judgment.7
The Holy Ghost is a lamp to light our onward march.

The office of the Holy Ghost is to bear record of Christ, or to testify of him, and confirm the believer in the truth, by bringing to his recollection things that have passed, and showing or revealing to the mind things present and to come. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” [John 14:26.] “He will guide you into all truth.” [John 16:13.]8

It is the duty of Latter-day Saints to teach their children … the necessity of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, which will lead them into all truth, and which will reveal to them things that have passed and things which are to come, and show to them more clearly those things which are present with them, that they may comprehend the truth, and that they may walk in the light as Christ is in the light; that they may have fellowship with him and that his blood may cleanse them from all sin.9

There is a course marked out for us to walk in—it is that strait and narrow path which leads back to the presence of God; the lamp to light our onward march is the Holy Ghost, which we received on or after our new birth. If we falter and turn aside, our lamp will burn dim and finally go out, when lo, the Comforter, the source of revelation, will leave us, and darkness will take its place; then how great will be that darkness! In proportion to the light we possessed will darkness overpower us, and unless a speedy repentance is made the darkness will increase within us until we lose sight of our calling and forget Him who redeemed us and claimed us for his own.10

The office of the Holy Spirit is to enlighten the minds of the people with regard to the things of God, to convince them at the time of their conversion of their having done the will of the Father, and to be in them an abiding testimony as a companion through life, acting as the sure and safe guide into all truth and filling them day by day with joy and gladness, with a disposition to do good to all men, to suffer wrong rather than to do wrong, to be kind and merciful, long suffering and charitable. All who possess this inestimable gift, this pearl of great price, have a continual thirst after righteousness. Without the aid of the Holy Spirit no mortal can walk in the straight and narrow way, being unable to discern right from wrong, the genuine from the counterfeit, so nearly alike can they be made to appear. Therefore it behooves the Latter-day Saints to live pure and upright, in order that this Spirit may abide in them; for it is only possessed on the principle of righteousness. I cannot receive it for you, nor you for me; every one must stand for him or her self, whether of high or humble birth, learned or unlearned, and it is the privilege of all alike to be made partakers of it.11

The Holy Ghost descends only upon the righteous and upon those who are forgiven of their sins. … So long as the Latter-day Saints are content to obey the commandments of God, to appreciate the privileges and blessings which they enjoy in the Church, and will use their time, their substance, in honor to the name of God, to build up Zion, and to establish truth and righteousness in the earth, so long our heavenly Father is bound by his oath and covenant to protect them from every opposing foe, and to help them to overcome every obstacle that can possibly be arrayed against them, or thrown in their pathway; but the moment a community begin to be wrapt up in themselves, become selfish, become engrossed in the temporalities of life, and put their faith in riches, that moment the power of God begins to withdraw from them, and if they repent not the Holy Spirit will depart from them entirely, and they will be left to themselves.12

You who have obeyed the requirements of the everlasting Gospel, and have been chosen out of the world, having received the gift of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands, it is your privilege to receive the witness of the Spirit for yourselves; it is your privilege to discern the mind and will of the Father respecting your own welfare, and respecting the final triumph of the work of God.13

Through the power of the Holy Ghost, we are born again.

The Savior said to Nicodemus, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God,” [see John 3:5] and that is true today. A man must be born from ignorance into truth, today. … If he is not so born, he is more blind than the one whom Christ healed, for having eyes he sees not, and having ears, hears not.14

That change comes today to every son and daughter of God who repents of his or her sins, who humble themselves before the Lord, and who seek forgiveness and remission of sin by baptism by immersion, by one having authority to administer this sacred ordinance of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For it is this new birth that was spoken of by Christ to Nicodemus as absolutely essential that men might see the kingdom of God, and without which no man could enter into the kingdom. Each of us can remember, perhaps, the change that came into our hearts when we were baptized for the remission of our sins. … I speak of the influence and power of the Holy Spirit that I experienced when I had been baptized for the remission of my sins. The feeling that came upon me was that of pure peace, of love and of light. …

Oh! that I could have kept that same spirit and that same earnest desire in my heart every moment of my life from that day to this. Yet many of us who have received that witness, that new birth, that change of heart, while we may have erred in judgment or have made many mistakes, and often perhaps come short of the true standard in our lives, we have repented of the evil, and we have sought from time to time forgiveness at the hand of the Lord; so that until this day the same desire and purpose which pervaded our souls when we were baptized and received a remission of our sins, still holds possession of our hearts, and is still the ruling sentiment and passion of our souls. Though at times we may be stirred to anger, and our wrath move us to say and do things which are not pleasing in the sight of God, yet instantly on regaining our sober senses and recovering from our lapse into the power of darkness, we feel humble, repentant, and to ask forgiveness for the wrong that we have done to ourselves, and perchance to others. The great, earnest, overwhelming desire, which is born of the truth and of the witness of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the people who obey the truth, assumes sway and again takes possession of our souls, to lead us on in the path of duty. This is my testimony and I know it is true.15
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The Holy Ghost by Robert D Hales:

Are all these merely opinions as well?

Who's scriptures that is just funny. My post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ focuses on the BoM. Did you know that JS said it's the most correct book?

Anyways take care, this is just going in circles. You want to use some that are not clear for your base.

[SJR3t2]

Nowhere that I have found in the scriptures is the Godhead defined as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That is tradition. It may be based on the fact that the scriptures do say that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one god. Allow yourself to consider that “godhead” and “one god” may not mean the same thing.

From post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

GODHEAD

Alma (LDS 11:44) (RLDS 8:102-104) Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the HOLY SPIRIT, which is ONE Eternal GOD, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

***

2 Nephi (LDS 31:21) (RLDS 13:31-32) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:27) (RLDS 5:27) And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:36) (RLDS 5:38) And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the HOLY GHOST will BEAR RECORD unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE.

Mormon (LDS 7:7) (RLDS 3:39) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the HOLY GHOST, which are ONE GOD, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

[righteousrepublic]

Who's scriptures that is just funny. My post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ focuses on the BoM. Did you know that JS said it's the most correct book? Absolutely, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not use the RLDS version, however. Thus, my question still stands. Who's scriptures.


Anyways take care, this is just going in circles. You want to use some that are not clear for your base. With so many versions of scripture being used, I can see why.

The four standard works of the church is my base. You do know that there are references in all four books that refer back to the other three, depending on which book you are reading, right? Just because the book of Mormon is the most correct of them all does not mean we merely throw the rest out. All four are for our profit and learning. If this were not true, JS wouldn't have taken the time to correct some of the bible. Much of the bible was written before the Book of Mormon, it only has a time frame from 600 BC to 600 AD. What makes it so important is the fact that it contains plain and precious parts removed by from the bible by evil men.

You are using the Book of Mormon as your base is declaring the HG as an it. HE is much more than that. Think about it, since the HG is the mind and will of God, and God is a man, then the HG is a HE.

[SJR3t2]

The four standard works of the church is my base. You do know that there are references in all four books that refer back to the other three, depending on which book you are reading, right? Just because the book of Mormon is the most correct of them all does not mean we merely throw the rest out. All four are for our profit and learning. If this were not true, JS wouldn't have taken the time to correct some of the bible. Much of the bible was written before the Book of Mormon, it only has a time frame from 600 BC to 600 AD. What makes it so important is the fact that it contains plain and precious parts removed by from the bible by evil men.

You are using the Book of Mormon as your base is declaring the HG as an it. HE is much more than that. Think about it, since the HG is the mind and will of God, and God is a man, then the HG is a HE.

Read my post I quote more than just the BoM, and it talks about the NT using 'he' is a translation problem, and that no modern revelation refers IT to as a he.

https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

[Contemplator]

Nowhere that I have found in the scriptures is the Godhead defined as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That is tradition. It may be based on the fact that the scriptures do say that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one god. Allow yourself to consider that “godhead” and “one god” may not mean the same thing.

From post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

GODHEAD

Alma (LDS 11:44) (RLDS 8:102-104) Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the HOLY SPIRIT, which is ONE Eternal GOD, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

***

2 Nephi (LDS 31:21) (RLDS 13:31-32) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:27) (RLDS 5:27) And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:36) (RLDS 5:38) And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the HOLY GHOST will BEAR RECORD unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE.

Mormon (LDS 7:7) (RLDS 3:39) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the HOLY GHOST, which are ONE GOD, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I agree with each scripture that you have posted. Each one says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. They do not use the word “godhead” and, thus, do not define the godhead.

[Contemplator]

The four standard works of the church is my base. You do know that there are references in all four books that refer back to the other three, depending on which book you are reading, right? Just because the book of Mormon is the most correct of them all does not mean we merely throw the rest out. All four are for our profit and learning. If this were not true, JS wouldn't have taken the time to correct some of the bible. Much of the bible was written before the Book of Mormon, it only has a time frame from 600 BC to 600 AD. What makes it so important is the fact that it contains plain and precious parts removed by from the bible by evil men.

You are using the Book of Mormon as your base is declaring the HG as an it. HE is much more than that. Think about it, since the HG is the mind and will of God, and God is a man, then the HG is a HE.

Read my post I quote more than just the BoM, and it talks about the NT using 'he' is a translation problem, and that no modern revelation refers IT to as a he.

https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

This is correct. The HG is only referred to as a he in John. There are translation issues in those verses. Further, that is only one witness. In modern scripture the gender could have been referenced but, instead, the Holy Ghost is referenced with “it” consistently (multiple witnesses).

[SJR3t2]

The four standard works of the church is my base. You do know that there are references in all four books that refer back to the other three, depending on which book you are reading, right? Just because the book of Mormon is the most correct of them all does not mean we merely throw the rest out. All four are for our profit and learning. If this were not true, JS wouldn't have taken the time to correct some of the bible. Much of the bible was written before the Book of Mormon, it only has a time frame from 600 BC to 600 AD. What makes it so important is the fact that it contains plain and precious parts removed by from the bible by evil men.

You are using the Book of Mormon as your base is declaring the HG as an it. HE is much more than that. Think about it, since the HG is the mind and will of God, and God is a man, then the HG is a HE.

Read my post I quote more than just the BoM, and it talks about the NT using 'he' is a translation problem, and that no modern revelation refers IT to as a he.

https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

This is correct. The HG is only referred to as a he in John. There are translation issues in those verses. Further, that is only one witness. In modern scripture the gender could have been referenced but, instead, the Holy Ghost is referenced with “it” consistently (multiple witnesses).

From https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

“The HOLY SPIRIT, that bears record” from Lectures on Faith 5:2 reminds me of Moses 6:61. Which also shows that Comforter is not a personage.

Moses 6:61 Therefore IT is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; THAT which QUICKENETH ALL THINGS, which maketh ALIVE ALL THINGS; THAT which knoweth ALL THINGS, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Moses 6:61 also refutes the idea presented in paragraphs one, three, four and others that the HOLY GHOST or others words the Comforter is not the same as the SPIRIT of TRUTH. Because Moses 6:61 applies descriptions that goes with the LIGHT OF CHRIST to the Comforter which there is no doubt that is another name for the HOLY GHOST. Take a look at D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7) and see how these same descriptions are being applied to the LIGHT OF CHRIST.

D&C (LDS 88:7,11–13) (RLDS 85) (1835 7) (1844 7)
7 Which TRUTH shineth. This is the LIGHT OF CHRIST. …
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him [Jesus Christ] who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that QUICKENETH your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in ALL THINGS, which giveth LIFE to ALL THINGS, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

On top of that there is no modern day revelation through Joseph Smith that refer to the HOLY SPIRIT / HOLY GHOST as a “he”. Even LDS D&C 130, which I personally do not believe in, does not apply “he” to IT. If you look at Moses 6:61 which I quoted just above, you will see it referencing the HOLY SPIRIT multiple ways including IT and THAT. Also if you were paying attention earlier when I quoted Numbers 11, verses 17 and 25 reference SPIRIT [RUACH] as IT. The only scriptures that I am aware of that uses “he” for the HOLY SPIRIT is from the New Testament which is because of translations errors.

IT

2 Nephi (LDS 33:2) (RLDS 15:2) But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.

***

2 Nephi (LDS 31:8-9) (RLDS 13:10-11)
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the HOLY GHOST DESCENDED upon him in the form of a DOVE. 9 And again, IT showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he [Jesus] having set the example before them.

2 Nephi (LDS 32:5) (RLDS 14:6) For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and RECEIVE the HOLY GHOST, IT will SHOW unto you all things what ye SHOULD DO.

Alma (LDS 34:38) (RLDS 16:237-238) That ye CONTEND no more against the HOLY GHOST, but that ye RECEIVE IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.

Alma (LDS 39:6) (RLDS 19:8-9) For behold, if ye DENY the HOLY GHOST when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

Moroni (LDS 2:2) (RLDS 2:2) And he called them by name, saying: Ye shall call on the Father in my name, in mighty prayer; and after ye have done this ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall GIVE the HOLY GHOST; and in my name shall ye give IT, for thus do mine apostles.

[SJR3t2]

I agree with each scripture that you have posted. Each one says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. They do not use the word “godhead” and, thus, do not define the godhead.

Personally I believe that Lectures on Faith is scriptures http://lecturesonfaith.com/5/ in post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ and the title of the 5th Lecture is GODHEAD. Not only is it titled that it is used through the lecture.

Lectures on Faith 5:1 In our former lectures we treated of the being, character, perfections and attributes of God. What we mean by perfections, is, the perfections which belong to all the attributes of his nature. We shall, in this lecture speak of the GODHEAD: we mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[SJR3t2]

I agree with each scripture that you have posted. Each one says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. They do not use the word “godhead” and, thus, do not define the godhead.

I understand these are from the NT, but I found these verses using https://seekingyhwh.com/resources/softw ... pelsearch/

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[Contemplator]

I agree with each scripture that you have posted. Each one says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. They do not use the word “godhead” and, thus, do not define the godhead.

Personally I believe that Lectures on Faith is scriptures http://lecturesonfaith.com/5/ in post https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ and the title of the 5th Lecture is GODHEAD. Not only is it titled that it is used through the lecture.

Lectures on Faith 5:1 In our former lectures we treated of the being, character, perfections and attributes of God. What we mean by perfections, is, the perfections which belong to all the attributes of his nature. We shall, in this lecture speak of the GODHEAD: we mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I agree with what you have said here. I would merely point out that lecture 5 dos nor literally say “Holy Ghost” as part of the godhead. The thing that is described in lecture 5 sounds like the thing that is described in D&C 88. That is more like the Spirit of Christ. It is called Holy Spirit in lecture 5. I am not convinced that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost. Whether you think that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost or not is beside the point. Even including the LoF as scripture (which I do) there is nowhere in scripture that the godhead is defined as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

[Contemplator]

I agree with each scripture that you have posted. Each one says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. They do not use the word “godhead” and, thus, do not define the godhead.

I understand these are from the NT, but I found these verses using https://seekingyhwh.com/resources/softw ... pelsearch/

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Each of those verses refer to the godhead, but none of them define the godhead. In fact, the last one would suggest that, whatever the godhead is, it dwells bodily in Jesus. Interesting.

All I am suggesting is that some things that we assume when discussing the Holy Ghost are inherited traditions and not grounded in scripture. When we accept the traditions of our fathers we may not be able to learn truths from God.

[SJR3t2]

I agree with what you have said here. I would merely point out that lecture 5 dos nor literally say “Holy Ghost” as part of the godhead. The thing that is described in lecture 5 sounds like the thing that is described in D&C 88. That is more like the Spirit of Christ. It is called Holy Spirit in lecture 5. I am not convinced that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost. Whether you think that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost or not is beside the point. Even including the LoF as scripture (which I do) there is nowhere in scripture that the godhead is defined as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Have you read my article from the opening post? https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ If you don't want to read the whole thing atleast look at the index of 16 concepts that the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost share including the Godhead, or in other words being part of the ONE GOD.

Here is a thought derived from the following verses from the post.

After looking at these verses I see a couple options. One that the HOLY SPIRIT and the HOLY GHOST are simply different translations of Ruach HaKodesh thus different English names for the same thing. Two there are four in the Godhead instead of only three. Or three there are two different Godheads. I hope and believe that any logical person familiar with the scriptures would say the answer is obviously option one.

GODHEAD

Alma (LDS 11:44) (RLDS 8:102-104) Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the HOLY SPIRIT, which is ONE Eternal GOD, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

***

2 Nephi (LDS 31:21) (RLDS 13:31-32) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:27) (RLDS 5:27) And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:36) (RLDS 5:38) And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the HOLY GHOST will BEAR RECORD unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE.

Mormon (LDS 7:7) (RLDS 3:39) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the HOLY GHOST, which are ONE GOD, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

[SJR3t2]

Each of those verses refer to the godhead, but none of them define the godhead. In fact, the last one would suggest that, whatever the godhead is, it dwells bodily in Jesus. Interesting.

All I am suggesting is that some things that we assume when discussing the Holy Ghost are inherited traditions and not grounded in scripture. When we accept the traditions of our fathers we may not be able to learn truths from God.

Disagree especially if you take the Lectures on Faith as scriptures as I do.

[Contemplator]

I agree with what you have said here. I would merely point out that lecture 5 dos nor literally say “Holy Ghost” as part of the godhead. The thing that is described in lecture 5 sounds like the thing that is described in D&C 88. That is more like the Spirit of Christ. It is called Holy Spirit in lecture 5. I am not convinced that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost. Whether you think that the Holy Spirit that is described in lecture 5 is the Holy Ghost or not is beside the point. Even including the LoF as scripture (which I do) there is nowhere in scripture that the godhead is defined as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Have you read my article from the opening post? https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/ If you don't want to read the whole thing atleast look at the index of 16 concepts that the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost share including the Godhead, or in other words being part of the ONE GOD.

Here is a thought derived from the following verses from the post.

After looking at these verses I see a couple options. One that the HOLY SPIRIT and the HOLY GHOST are simply different translations of Ruach HaKodesh thus different English names for the same thing. Two there are four in the Godhead instead of only three. Or three there are two different Godheads. I hope and believe that any logical person familiar with the scriptures would say the answer is obviously option one.

GODHEAD

Alma (LDS 11:44) (RLDS 8:102-104) Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the HOLY SPIRIT, which is ONE Eternal GOD, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

***

2 Nephi (LDS 31:21) (RLDS 13:31-32) And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:27) (RLDS 5:27) And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

3 Nephi (LDS 11:36) (RLDS 5:38) And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the HOLY GHOST will BEAR RECORD unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the HOLY GHOST are ONE.

Mormon (LDS 7:7) (RLDS 3:39) And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the HOLY GHOST, which are ONE GOD, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I have read that post, and several others that you have written. I enjoy your thoughtful approach to what you write. In this case I think we are talking past each other. I agree that there are similarities between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. I also find that there are times where these words seem to describe different things. I wrote about this in an earlier post but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. In any case, thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find you to be very much worth reading.

[SJR3t2]

I have read that post, and several others that you have written. I enjoy your thoughtful approach to what you write. In this case I think we are talking past each other. I agree that there are similarities between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. I also find that there are times where these words seem to describe different things. I wrote about this in an earlier post but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. In any case, thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find you to be very much worth reading.

I'm glad you get something from my posts. I guess we will have to agree to disagree regarding the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost.