LDS Freedom Forum

ori wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:25 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 2:19 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:00 am I have made this offer before and I will make it once more. You and I will see homos getting married in the temple within 20 years. I would even go as far a saying 10 years. The cowardly leadership of the new church and passive, ignorant memebership will not only allow the temple to be defiled by these perverts but they will welcome it all in the name of diversity.

Almost certainly. Especially now with every facet of life pushing the LGBTQ agenda.

Don't know if anyone here has been flying lately. But on Delta, when you watch a movie they always show a short 1min. intro. video.

Yeah, the video currently has two men blowing out birthday candles with a little kid and then a little boy twirling around in a princess dress.

This stuff is sick and it's coming fast and furious.

I was presented with that video but didn’t notice that—because I wasn’t paying attention. I find no interest watching corporate back-patting videos. I actually think I fast forwarded through that video — at least twice. I did notice the guy at the end saying some nonsense about inclusion, which I immediately recognized as meaningless leftist platitudes.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:57 pm

tdj wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:14 pm What are we going to do? By we I mean those of us with eyes wide open seeing what this cancer is doing to the church body? If the church leaders are going soft, weak and all wishy washy on this, in the one and only true church, then we're in serious trouble.
What in God's holy name are we going to do??

It is really amazing to me just how much we have lost in the Church; it's not really all the leaders fault but it is the entire membership. The membership is soft, weak and wishy washy.

The membership of 50 years ago wouldn't have put up with this crap-they would have fought it tooth and nail-but the membership is soft and we enjoy all the worldly accolades of not being persecuted . . .we have no idea what real persecution is like.

Don't the scriptures hold the answers:
DC88
81 Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.
--------
That's all anyone really can do, warn you neighbor, stop being soft and squishy individually and warn those other members you interact with.

I do it in my youth class. Just this past Sunday as we were talking about Prophets, I warned the youth about false prophets and that in scriptural terms a prophet didn't just mean "the" Prophet, but could very well mean teacher, and leaders.

I warned them that in their life, they will need to learn how to distinguish between true prophets and false prophets, that to distinguish between them comes from knowing the Scriptures and knowing the Spirit. I warned them that they need to be careful and if they hear a man (or woman), me, another teacher, the Bishop or anyone from the pulpit speaking things that doesn't conform to Scripture and/or to the Spirit that they can throw that teaching out. That main doctrine is the Doctrine of Christ, change is possible, repentance is possible.

That's all you really can do, is help people come unto Christ, warn them, help point them in the right direction and let the chips fall where they may.

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Devout mormons believe polygamy is more righteous form of marriage? Never heard this from devout mormons I know.
Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Devout mormons believe polygamy is more righteous form of marriage? Never heard this from devout mormons I know.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

Doc wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:59 am I live in the southwestern corner of the valley and my experience is completely different than what many here describe. We actually had a meeting with leadership regarding a youth member who claims to have SSA...let’s just say the unwavering consensus was to preach the family proclamation without apology. I think it is each member’s duty to stand our ground and call out sin.

I feel the homosexual agenda will keep getting pushed on upon us until God’s house is cleansed...and that day is drawing very near. MBB is nothing more than a few apostates carefully leading themselves to hell.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

tdj wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 8:24 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:57 pm

tdj wrote: ↑June 1st, 2019, 7:14 pm What are we going to do? By we I mean those of us with eyes wide open seeing what this cancer is doing to the church body? If the church leaders are going soft, weak and all wishy washy on this, in the one and only true church, then we're in serious trouble.
What in God's holy name are we going to do??

It is really amazing to me just how much we have lost in the Church; it's not really all the leaders fault but it is the entire membership. The membership is soft, weak and wishy washy.

The membership of 50 years ago wouldn't have put up with this crap-they would have fought it tooth and nail-but the membership is soft and we enjoy all the worldly accolades of not being persecuted . . .we have no idea what real persecution is like.

Don't the scriptures hold the answers:
DC88
81 Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.
--------
That's all anyone really can do, warn you neighbor, stop being soft and squishy individually and warn those other members you interact with.

I do it in my youth class. Just this past Sunday as we were talking about Prophets, I warned the youth about false prophets and that in scriptural terms a prophet didn't just mean "the" Prophet, but could very well mean teacher, and leaders.

I warned them that in their life, they will need to learn how to distinguish between true prophets and false prophets, that to distinguish between them comes from knowing the Scriptures and knowing the Spirit. I warned them that they need to be careful and if they hear a man (or woman), me, another teacher, the Bishop or anyone from the pulpit speaking things that doesn't conform to Scripture and/or to the Spirit that they can throw that teaching out. That main doctrine is the Doctrine of Christ, change is possible, repentance is possible.

That's all you really can do, is help people come unto Christ, warn them, help point them in the right direction and let the chips fall where they may.

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Aprhys wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:21 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Devout mormons believe polygamy is more righteous form of marriage? Never heard this from devout mormons I know.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:34 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

That's a good starting point for sure, but what I meant specifically is what will God expect us to do about attending church and our church membership if and when it reaches the point that our leaders go so far as to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple and set out new edicts that we are to accept such lifestyles as we would any other?

This is the one true church. If it crumbles to that, then should we stay or should we go? And if we go then to WHERE?

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

Keep sticking your head in the sand . . . . it will happen because the membership will be so wicked they will clamor for it.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:00 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:21 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Devout mormons believe polygamy is more righteous form of marriage? Never heard this from devout mormons I know.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

And WHY do your kids believe there is nothing wrong with gay sealings? They simply do not have a foundation understanding of Gods plan. Something went wrong there.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:13 pm What has gone wrong is that the parents (who teens don't give much credit) teach that gay marriage is sinful. Then media, school teachers, youth leaders, seminary teachers, bishops, friends' parents, and neighbors, either directly support gay marriage (like flying a Pride flag) or don't say anything at all. ... When your previous Bishop has his front porch all decked out in Pride (the Augenstein's in Riverton) or a block of LDS families are all flying Pride flags in your neighborhood, parents don't stand much of a chance of righteously influencing their children. Especially when schools call any comment negative toward LGBTQ issues and gay marriage HATE speech. The battle has been lost.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:07 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:34 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:57 am

Not entirely sure that will happen. However, it would not surprise me. We caved on polygamy, we caved on birth control and we may cave on this issue.

Perhaps we might see bishops marrying two men or two women in church buildings but that will be it, no sealing ceremony. I think that is more likely. However, the people wanting the Church to liberalize would not be satisfied with that. They want it all. So we might just see temple sealings for same-sex partners.

Of course we might go full libertarian and say we allow that, but also polygamy. This would give the devout LDS something to feel was returning to a more righteous view of marriage while then leaving it up to others who wanted same-sex sealings to get them, but let God sort it out later.

Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

Keep sticking your head in the sand . . . . it will happen because the membership will be so wicked they will clamor for it.

Lets put it this way then, it wont matter if gay marriage is accepted or performed by members of this church!

My head is not in the sand
Having an understanding of how things operate in creation, requiring 1 male and 1 female, helps me not give a single care about all the fear talk and possible stuff that may or may not happen. It DOES NOT matter. And to those who say it does matter and it will disway people, splinter the church and cause all sorts of logistical problems have their head far too low in the sand themselves. Do we really honestly believe that everything will end for God or our own eternal progression if stupid people do stupid things to try to change Gods ways? It doesnt matter. Teach your kids and save them, thats what matters now.

Just the law of statistics, it's almost guaranteed that at least 1/3rd of your ward believes homosexuality should be accepted, they just don't say anything. It's probably lower for regular church going members, but I would wager money on it being at least 20% of your active church going members.

MBB, is NOT a "few" apostates. Their facebook group has over 8000 members! They grew over 1000 members in last year. That's not chump change and it ain't a few. The Church wouldn't reverse course on calling LGBTQ marriages apostate, for just a "few" apostates.

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:48 pm

Just the law of statistics, it's almost guaranteed that at least 1/3rd of your ward believes homosexuality should be accepted, they just don't say anything. It's probably lower for regular church going members, but I would wager money on it being at least 20% of your active church going members.

Probably lower in priesthood and much higher % in Relief Society.

MBB, is NOT a "few" apostates. Their facebook group has over 8000 members! They grew over 1000 members in last year. That's not chump change and it ain't a few. The Church wouldn't reverse course on calling LGBTQ marriages apostate, for just a "few" apostates.

Well, can we be sure they are all Mormons? Has anyone looked through their membership to see if these are active LDS people, LDS in name only or not even LDS?

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 12:07 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:34 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 10:02 am
Gay marriage wont happen in this church.

Keep sticking your head in the sand . . . . it will happen because the membership will be so wicked they will clamor for it.

Lets put it this way then, it wont matter if gay marriage is accepted or performed by members of this church!

My head is not in the sand
Having an understanding of how things operate in creation, requiring 1 male and 1 female, helps me not give a single care about all the fear talk and possible stuff that may or may not happen. It DOES NOT matter. And to those who say it does matter and it will disway people, splinter the church and cause all sorts of logistical problems have their head far too low in the sand themselves. Do we really honestly believe that everything will end for God or our own eternal progression if stupid people do stupid things to try to change Gods ways? It doesnt matter. Teach your kids and save them, thats what matters now.

If it does not matter, then why belong to a Church in the first place?

Of course you teach your kids first, but kids don't grow up in a vacuum and there is only so much that parents can teach them. They learn from parents, teachers, schools, churches etc.

If you go down this road of it "DOES NOT MATTER", all that leads to is nihilism. Good luck with that.

It matters b/c I care about my kids future, the world they grow up in, and other good people.

To the bold, YES if people do nothing!! God has all faith, He has faith that His children will do what is right. God can't save His children if they are a bunch of nihilistic "nothing really matters" types.

God's work can't be frustrated b/c no matter what you do someone else will do something. So maybe it ain't you, but I'll do something.

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:01 pm

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

Demographics is destiny. Single women gravitate to more liberal stances, and that shift gets stronger the older they get. Women also pay tithes. I know a woman who brags that she left her husband because he refused to pay a full tithe. He (or she) who controls the pocketbook...

We also see a devastation taking place with men leaving the Church. Nobody can deny that the tone of the Church has taken a more daytime-TV feel-good approach, in our religion as well as most of Christianity. This does not appeal to men that much who really do not see a place for themselves. Even the switch from "home teaching" which in a way sounds more like information-sharing, a more masculine connotation, to "ministering" which gives a mental image of a priest in a parish, certainly nothing masculine about that. Regardless, men are way less likely to stay active nowadays. And it used to be statistically even for young men and women regarding activity. And don't blame porn because that just means you are part of the problem, not the solution. If this continues then the power of the priesthood will decrease more and more.

Mormons also like to conform to society. Ironic since the people who join tend to be more free-thinking people, but how many of us know people who are converts who joined against all odds, but their children quit because they do not like being told what to do? I am not seeing any effort to address that - in fact, we are getting even more mushy middle ground beliefs and behavior presented as the ideal. So as society goes, so...

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am

Doc wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:59 am I live in the southwestern corner of the valley and my experience is completely different than what many here describe. We actually had a meeting with leadership regarding a youth member who claims to have SSA...let’s just say the unwavering consensus was to preach the family proclamation without apology. I think it is each member’s duty to stand our ground and call out sin.

I feel the homosexual agenda will keep getting pushed on upon us until God’s house is cleansed...and that day is drawing very near. MBB is nothing more than a few apostates carefully leading themselves to hell.

I agree for a good portion of the active church members the idea the Church would cave on homosexuality is so far from reality . . .for now. I used to believe like that, until I looked and saw the data. Stats don't lie.

Direct from the Pew Research:
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-land ... sexuality/
% of Mormons who say homosexuality…
Survey year Should be accepted Should be discouraged Neither/both equally Don't know Sample
2014 36% 57% 4% 3% 664
2007 24% 68% 5% 3% 581

In 2014, 5 years ago, which is a lifetime in this fast moving culture, over 1/3rd of members believed homosexuality should be accepted. Other surveys from Pew indicate that number has moved up to the low to mid 40s.

Just the law of statistics, it's almost guaranteed that at least 1/3rd of your ward believes homosexuality should be accepted, they just don't say anything. It's probably lower for regular church going members, but I would wager money on it being at least 20% of your active church going members.

They don't say anything and you would never know b/c they know that currently they are in the minority. But all it takes is one or two propagandists members to stand up start giving talks, teachings etc. and if nothing is done to them you watch, members who accept LGBTQ will come out of the walls.

MBB, is NOT a "few" apostates. Their facebook group has over 8000 members! They grew over 1000 members in last year. That's not chump change and it ain't a few. The Church wouldn't reverse course on calling LGBTQ marriages apostate, for just a "few" apostates.

That is absolutely awesome what you leadership is doing and it needs to be done everywhere. But the tides are against them. All it takes is for one small misstep, for one leader to say something in the wrong way and a SSA with the right tenacity to record the conversation and cut it up and blow it up.

And you think well so what, they are church leaders. . . . right . . . think a little more globally about what is happening in today's world. They blow it up, but a video an audio recording on twitter/facebook, get their followers together. They doxx the leader (b/c they have access to all private information).

What happens if this leader works for a name-brand company? Do you think Gillette would have any hesitation to fire say a Division head who is also a Bishop who a LGBTQ member posted and got viral some video of this guy trying to preach the proclamation to him?

Leaders who are standing up, and I mean with no hyperbole, are potentially risking their livelihood to do so. And if they don't recognize that, they are either naive or stupid. And for those who do risk it, I applaud them and support them.

Even if they are not fired, you don't think that at some point, that information of "hey you are trying to change someone who is SSA" isn't going to get back through the grapevine into the business world? Reputation is everything in that world and what if you work in a "woke" environment, and now your co-workers know about you.

Going against the LGBTQ velvet mafia is way, way worse than just "oh you're LDS", shoot all the "diversity and inclusion" training I've been through, it's real dang clear. Bow to the LGBTQ diversity god or you don't have a job.

It's gonna get interesting that's all I can say . . .

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:36 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:01 pm

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

Demographics is destiny. Single women gravitate to more liberal stances, and that shift gets stronger the older they get. Women also pay tithes. I know a woman who brags that she left her husband because he refused to pay a full tithe. He (or she) who controls the pocketbook...

We also see a devastation taking place with men leaving the Church. Nobody can deny that the tone of the Church has taken a more daytime-TV feel-good approach, in our religion as well as most of Christianity. This does not appeal to men that much who really do not see a place for themselves. Even the switch from "home teaching" which in a way sounds more like information-sharing, a more masculine connotation, to "ministering" which gives a mental image of a priest in a parish, certainly nothing masculine about that. Regardless, men are way less likely to stay active nowadays. And it used to be statistically even for young men and women regarding activity. And don't blame porn because that just means you are part of the problem, not the solution. If this continues then the power of the priesthood will decrease more and more.

Mormons also like to conform to society. Ironic since the people who join tend to be more free-thinking people, but how many of us know people who are converts who joined against all odds, but their children quit because they do not like being told what to do? I am not seeing any effort to address that - in fact, we are getting even more mushy middle ground beliefs and behavior presented as the ideal. So as society goes, so...

Why are men leaving the church over something not being masculine enough? Like ministering? Cant he go and chain saw a fallen tree for a neighbor or do some manly task to help out? Ministering to me leaves it completely open to help as you want to.
Men need to become converted and start being men of action if they dont like something, heaven knows we need a good change. Men have the headship, stewardship and priesthood duties, why are they just sitting back and complaining? Get together as a quorum and change it! Unfortunately, Men have become hormonally broken these days and its very disastrous because they forget their men. Its not just testosterone, they have way too much estrogen and it makes them cry babies and most difficult. No idea how to fix it except living on your own farm eating what you produce and putting nothing bad in or on your body.

The problem is not the church, or media, or work, or women. Its hormonal imbalances that has us all messed up.

jsk wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:55 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 11:33 am

Doc wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 9:59 am I live in the southwestern corner of the valley and my experience is completely different than what many here describe. We actually had a meeting with leadership regarding a youth member who claims to have SSA...let’s just say the unwavering consensus was to preach the family proclamation without apology. I think it is each member’s duty to stand our ground and call out sin.

I feel the homosexual agenda will keep getting pushed on upon us until God’s house is cleansed...and that day is drawing very near. MBB is nothing more than a few apostates carefully leading themselves to hell.

I agree for a good portion of the active church members the idea the Church would cave on homosexuality is so far from reality . . .for now. I used to believe like that, until I looked and saw the data. Stats don't lie.

Direct from the Pew Research:
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-land ... sexuality/
% of Mormons who say homosexuality…
Survey year Should be accepted Should be discouraged Neither/both equally Don't know Sample
2014 36% 57% 4% 3% 664
2007 24% 68% 5% 3% 581

In 2014, 5 years ago, which is a lifetime in this fast moving culture, over 1/3rd of members believed homosexuality should be accepted. Other surveys from Pew indicate that number has moved up to the low to mid 40s.

Just the law of statistics, it's almost guaranteed that at least 1/3rd of your ward believes homosexuality should be accepted, they just don't say anything. It's probably lower for regular church going members, but I would wager money on it being at least 20% of your active church going members.

They don't say anything and you would never know b/c they know that currently they are in the minority. But all it takes is one or two propagandists members to stand up start giving talks, teachings etc. and if nothing is done to them you watch, members who accept LGBTQ will come out of the walls.

MBB, is NOT a "few" apostates. Their facebook group has over 8000 members! They grew over 1000 members in last year. That's not chump change and it ain't a few. The Church wouldn't reverse course on calling LGBTQ marriages apostate, for just a "few" apostates.

That is absolutely awesome what you leadership is doing and it needs to be done everywhere. But the tides are against them. All it takes is for one small misstep, for one leader to say something in the wrong way and a SSA with the right tenacity to record the conversation and cut it up and blow it up.

And you think well so what, they are church leaders. . . . right . . . think a little more globally about what is happening in today's world. They blow it up, but a video an audio recording on twitter/facebook, get their followers together. They doxx the leader (b/c they have access to all private information).

What happens if this leader works for a name-brand company? Do you think Gillette would have any hesitation to fire say a Division head who is also a Bishop who a LGBTQ member posted and got viral some video of this guy trying to preach the proclamation to him?

Leaders who are standing up, and I mean with no hyperbole, are potentially risking their livelihood to do so. And if they don't recognize that, they are either naive or stupid. And for those who do risk it, I applaud them and support them.

Even if they are not fired, you don't think that at some point, that information of "hey you are trying to change someone who is SSA" isn't going to get back through the grapevine into the business world? Reputation is everything in that world and what if you work in a "woke" environment, and now your co-workers know about you.

Going against the LGBTQ velvet mafia is way, way worse than just "oh you're LDS", shoot all the "diversity and inclusion" training I've been through, it's real dang clear. Bow to the LGBTQ diversity god or you don't have a job.

It's gonna get interesting that's all I can say . . .

Wow...hadn’t thought of that...I could definitely see a scenario like what you are describing happen in terms of a person’s livelihood.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:57 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:36 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2019, 1:01 pm

I will wager you $5,000 that gay marriage does in fact happen in this church. My kids are in their late teens early 20s and even though they are church attending, scripture reading, seminary graduated, "good" LDS kids, they believe that there is nothing wrong at all with homos getting married in the temple. One day these kids will be the ones leading the church. The church will then splinter into different sects.
I am absolutely sure of this.

Demographics is destiny. Single women gravitate to more liberal stances, and that shift gets stronger the older they get. Women also pay tithes. I know a woman who brags that she left her husband because he refused to pay a full tithe. He (or she) who controls the pocketbook...

We also see a devastation taking place with men leaving the Church. Nobody can deny that the tone of the Church has taken a more daytime-TV feel-good approach, in our religion as well as most of Christianity. This does not appeal to men that much who really do not see a place for themselves. Even the switch from "home teaching" which in a way sounds more like information-sharing, a more masculine connotation, to "ministering" which gives a mental image of a priest in a parish, certainly nothing masculine about that. Regardless, men are way less likely to stay active nowadays. And it used to be statistically even for young men and women regarding activity. And don't blame porn because that just means you are part of the problem, not the solution. If this continues then the power of the priesthood will decrease more and more.

Mormons also like to conform to society. Ironic since the people who join tend to be more free-thinking people, but how many of us know people who are converts who joined against all odds, but their children quit because they do not like being told what to do? I am not seeing any effort to address that - in fact, we are getting even more mushy middle ground beliefs and behavior presented as the ideal. So as society goes, so...

Why are men leaving the church over something not being masculine enough? Like ministering? Cant he go and chain saw a fallen tree for a neighbor or do some manly task to help out? Ministering to me leaves it completely open to help as you want to.
Men need to become converted and start being men of action if they dont like something, heaven knows we need a good change. Men have the headship, stewardship and priesthood duties, why are they just sitting back and complaining? Get together as a quorum and change it! Unfortunately, Men have become hormonally broken these days and its very disastrous because they forget their men. Its not just testosterone, they have way too much estrogen and it makes them cry babies and most difficult. No idea how to fix it except living on your own farm eating what you produce and putting nothing bad in or on your body.

The problem is not the church, or media, or work, or women. Its hormonal imbalances that has us all messed up.

That's not what Fiannan is talking about. It's a difference in how men and women learn and what drives them. For men, most of life is a puzzle or a riddle to be solved, figured out, completed, etc.

All the great, deep thinkers of the world have been men and there is a good reason for that. The Church used to be very deep intellectually, now it is simply just fluff and the men are leaving because it is fluff.

Most men don't want to sit around in a circle talking about their feelings. If men are going to sit around in a circle they want to discuss the bigger things in life, politics, religion, etc. And when men can't or don't feel secure in openly discussing the broader things in life the conversation devolves into the two reliable things that don't bring conflict . . . work and sports.

The Church has largely become a huge self-help therapy session. There is not much that I can't find outside the Church to help me out in my life. So for men, why do we need the Church? It's really hard to have a deep conversation about anything meaningful in the Church without someone getting offended, someone saying you shouldn't talk about that, etc.