A concern for Julie Rowe.

[justme]

This concept of energy healing seems so mysterious and secretive so it is hard to really understand what is happening. From the little I have gathered it seems to involve dealing with and communicating with deceased spirits of the person that is afflicted and casting out evil ones. This sounds more like a seance with a medium. It is of course not the healing that the scriptures refer to. Though I will admit the tie with the priesthood is vague and women in the past were allowed to give healing blessings and hopefully will again.

[Juliet]

None of the scriptures that you or anyone else have posted to try to support EH or MMP / reincarnation have anything to do with either. They both are utterly false ideas. Sorry.

Please go ask your bishop / SP about these ideas.

When we are to know truth, it isn't by flesh and blood but by our Father in Heaven. If the Stake President teaches the truth, the Holy Spirit will testify of it. And there will be two witnesses.

One of the first lessons in the Come Follow Me Manuel taught about Nathaniel, and how He witnessed that Jesus was the Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also Jesus asked Peter how he knew He was the Son of God, and he also knew through the Holy Spirit.

There were people who when they heard that Jesus believed He was the Son of God, that mocked Him and spit on Him and wanted to know what they would like like when they were damned. They obviously were not given the witness of truth that was given to Peter and Nathaniel.

I don't think people with the spirit of mockery speak the truth. I believe that the Spirit of Truth is adorned with loving kindness, peace, long suffering, joy, and the fruits of the spirit.

We do need to discern between truth and error. But that discernment does not come by man.

Surely every man with priesthood keys will be targeted and under attack. Satan wants those keys. Satan wants to deceive, and what better way then to deceive someone with a large stewardship.

I believe that whom The Lord calls, He qualifies. But that requires a willing heart. And if someone purposely uses their agency to use their priesthood keys to further the kingdom of Satan, then we cannot say there are no hypocrites or wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, flesh and blood does not reveal these things but the Father in Heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within. In Jeremiah 31 it teaches the day will come where everyone has the word of God written in their heart and no one will say to their neighbor know ye the Lord, for everyone will know Him in their heart.

Our stake President's number one job is to help people come unto Christ.

Any dispute in doctrine shows that in general, the Holy Spirit is not witnessing to people. When Jesus came to the Nephites, there was no contention among them. There were no disputations among them. They all individually prayed to the Father and each had the Holy Spirit.

I have never read in scripture or learned in Sunday School that my Stake President is the testator of truth. That is the job for the Holy Spirit and to take that away from the member of the godhead and give it to a man is blasphemous and against the scriptures which say in D&C 50 that there are hypocrites in the Lord's church.

I sustain my leaders in as much as they follow the Holy Spirit. They do not sustain me, I sustain them. If they take away my temple recommend for not sustaining them, and I am not evil or a hypocrite, then I wouldn't sustain that action. Nor would the Holy Spirit.

I know people have great trust in their leaders. But it isn't doctrinal. The doctrine is that truth comes by the Holy Spirit. And we are also taught that some leaders are wicked. Therefore we are asked to receive a witness through the Holy Spirit that our leaders are called of God, and to sustain them in what they do.

If a leader is helping someone come unto Christ, it will not be by compulsion but by gentle persuasion and long suffering. Maybe occasionally with rebuke, as lead by the Holy Spirit, but afterwards showing an increase in love.

The D&C 50 is very clear that even a teacher, if he or she does not teach by the spirit of truth, then it is by some other way and it is not of God.

And how do we know it is by the Spirit of Truth? Because both the teacher and the student receive it, both are enlightened, and both rejoice together.

That's the doctrine. It isn't one person's word against another. It is when both see eye to eye that the teacher has been successful toward the student in teaching the truth.

[Kenco]

Juliet

You and I could read the same scripture and have different interpretations. You view all scripture through energy healing mindset. So who is right? I would suggest that you study the scriptures along side the institute manuals. They give clear explanations of the meaning of each scripture. Its truly eye opening.

Jesus Christ our Savior is trying to help us spiritual blind and deaf people, to see clearly and hear clearly. If you look to other sources i.e. energy healing, Julie Rowe and others, you will only become more blind and deaf to truth.

Please research the origins of energy healing. It certainly was not God who introduced it. It is a philosophy of man.

The “pull” that energy healing has on a person is real. Those involved are completely convinced that they are using and feeling the power of God. But it is and has always been a counterfeit to the true power of God. You need to walk away from all practices of energy healing. They will lead right out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints!

[Themedicareguy]

When it comes to someone's excommunication, isn't there some sort of privacy for this kind of thing? Please see response below

Is the reason for her excommunication any of our business? Yes but JR made it public by posting all the details on youtube.

I can only assume she was saying things that made people uneasy. It makes me want to know... uneasy? No. Sad? Yes.

Has the church made a statement against multiple mortal probations as being untrue? I know it has against reincarnation, but apparently this is different. It’s the same thing as reincarnation just repackaged to make it appealing to Christians. So yes it is false doctrine that The Church has condemned.

Is it a sin to pray for people and cast out devils? Where is the church doctrine on this? JR and energy healing summons evil spirits. She casts out nothing but good

Is it a sin to do energy healing? Yes. Where are the church's statements on this that clearly define what energy healing is and how it is sinful; as opposed to the vague references made in Elder Ballard's talk. His and The Church’s statement was very clear. If someone ignores his counsel, that’s their problem.

Is it a sin to be paid for spiritual work? Yes. Some call that priest craft. But isn't any gift to earn a living a spiritual gift? No. Where is the church's stance on this?

What about the church's stance on the laws of celestial marriage? What are the rules and exceptions? I don’t understand this ? and how it applies except that JR travels w and clandestinely meets w men w/o their wives or her husband present so not sure how much this group cherishes the sanctity of marriage.

If we can only find these answers by personal revelation, then certainly someone shouldn't be punished for sharing their beliefs. We believe that everyone has the right to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience and to believe how, where, or what they may. She can worship however she wants—and she does so obviously. If one does not follow the authorized teachings of The Church, they can be consequences. That’s how life works.

Is it ok for the church to stop a member from sharing their beliefs because they don't want it to reflect on the church as a whole? Absolutely.

I understand a lot of people don't like or care about anything Julie Rowe says. But not liking someone's beliefs isn't a reason for excommunication unless it is clearly against church doctrine. She is clearly against church doctrine—egregiously so point of fact.

I believe people should be free to share their beliefs. Stopping the exchange of ideas is extremely harmful, so harmful that it is acknowledged by the founding fathers in the bill of rights. The right to speech should not be infringed. Our own government acknowledges this. Our eleventh article of faith acknowledges this. So what exactly are these fruits that are rotten, besides the fact that most people don't like them? Where exactly are her teachings against the doctrine of the church, as specifically stated by our church leaders? no one has take the right of free speech away from her. For you to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Every book, radio show, podcast, event she is responsible for contains false doctrine. It is very sad how easily she has deceived you and her followers.

If she is excommunicated for leading people astray, surely people have a right to know exactly why.

If not, we can assume it has nothing to do with anything she has said, (False). and is a private matter between her and the church. JR made it public

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

[Alaris]

When it comes to someone's excommunication, isn't there some sort of privacy for this kind of thing? Please see response below

Is the reason for her excommunication any of our business? Yes but JR made it public by posting all the details on youtube.

I can only assume she was saying things that made people uneasy. It makes me want to know... uneasy? No. Sad? Yes.

Has the church made a statement against multiple mortal probations as being untrue? I know it has against reincarnation, but apparently this is different. It’s the same thing as reincarnation just repackaged to make it appealing to Christians. So yes it is false doctrine that The Church has condemned.

Is it a sin to pray for people and cast out devils? Where is the church doctrine on this? JR and energy healing summons evil spirits. She casts out nothing but good

Is it a sin to do energy healing? Yes. Where are the church's statements on this that clearly define what energy healing is and how it is sinful; as opposed to the vague references made in Elder Ballard's talk. His and The Church’s statement was very clear. If someone ignores his counsel, that’s their problem.

Is it a sin to be paid for spiritual work? Yes. Some call that priest craft. But isn't any gift to earn a living a spiritual gift? No. Where is the church's stance on this?

What about the church's stance on the laws of celestial marriage? What are the rules and exceptions? I don’t understand this ? and how it applies except that JR travels w and clandestinely meets w men w/o their wives or her husband present so not sure how much this group cherishes the sanctity of marriage.

If we can only find these answers by personal revelation, then certainly someone shouldn't be punished for sharing their beliefs. We believe that everyone has the right to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience and to believe how, where, or what they may. She can worship however she wants—and she does so obviously. If one does not follow the authorized teachings of The Church, they can be consequences. That’s how life works.

Is it ok for the church to stop a member from sharing their beliefs because they don't want it to reflect on the church as a whole? Absolutely.

I understand a lot of people don't like or care about anything Julie Rowe says. But not liking someone's beliefs isn't a reason for excommunication unless it is clearly against church doctrine. She is clearly against church doctrine—egregiously so point of fact.

I believe people should be free to share their beliefs. Stopping the exchange of ideas is extremely harmful, so harmful that it is acknowledged by the founding fathers in the bill of rights. The right to speech should not be infringed. Our own government acknowledges this. Our eleventh article of faith acknowledges this. So what exactly are these fruits that are rotten, besides the fact that most people don't like them? Where exactly are her teachings against the doctrine of the church, as specifically stated by our church leaders? no one has take the right of free speech away from her. For you to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Every book, radio show, podcast, event she is responsible for contains false doctrine. It is very sad how easily she has deceived you and her followers.

If she is excommunicated for leading people astray, surely people have a right to know exactly why.

If not, we can assume it has nothing to do with anything she has said, (False). and is a private matter between her and the church. JR made it public

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps Juliets larger point was lost here. Clearly she's making the point that there are a lot of "strange" doctrines of such we have little information. Please don't join in the primary manual police. When folks endeavor to shame someone's beliefs, well that's both a tactic of the adversary and has the unspoken, yet loud subtext that says "my understanding is superior than yours." The latter leads to contention and both are not fruits of the Spirit but of the devil. Are we not a peculiar people? Is peculiar closer in meaning to strange or normal?

Despite what desert wonderer said there is no official statement from the church against mmp. You'll find an apostle here that speaks for an apostle there who speaks against. You'll find articles on lds.org that seem to speak for and ones that speak against. If you want to engage further on this I'll be happy to do so in any number of mmp threads that exist.

Back to Juliets larger point as I understand it. There are a lot of things out there that aren't revealed yet. The knowledge police not only assume they know what hasn't been revealed but use often use shame to silence others with very little substance. This phenomenon is explained in Alma 12 9-11 iirc

[Juliet]

When it comes to someone's excommunication, isn't there some sort of privacy for this kind of thing? Please see response below

Is the reason for her excommunication any of our business? Yes but JR made it public by posting all the details on youtube.

I can only assume she was saying things that made people uneasy. It makes me want to know... uneasy? No. Sad? Yes.

Has the church made a statement against multiple mortal probations as being untrue? I know it has against reincarnation, but apparently this is different. It’s the same thing as reincarnation just repackaged to make it appealing to Christians. So yes it is false doctrine that The Church has condemned.

Is it a sin to pray for people and cast out devils? Where is the church doctrine on this? JR and energy healing summons evil spirits. She casts out nothing but good

Is it a sin to do energy healing? Yes. Where are the church's statements on this that clearly define what energy healing is and how it is sinful; as opposed to the vague references made in Elder Ballard's talk. His and The Church’s statement was very clear. If someone ignores his counsel, that’s their problem.

Is it a sin to be paid for spiritual work? Yes. Some call that priest craft. But isn't any gift to earn a living a spiritual gift? No. Where is the church's stance on this?

What about the church's stance on the laws of celestial marriage? What are the rules and exceptions? I don’t understand this ? and how it applies except that JR travels w and clandestinely meets w men w/o their wives or her husband present so not sure how much this group cherishes the sanctity of marriage.

If we can only find these answers by personal revelation, then certainly someone shouldn't be punished for sharing their beliefs. We believe that everyone has the right to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience and to believe how, where, or what they may. She can worship however she wants—and she does so obviously. If one does not follow the authorized teachings of The Church, they can be consequences. That’s how life works.

Is it ok for the church to stop a member from sharing their beliefs because they don't want it to reflect on the church as a whole? Absolutely.

I understand a lot of people don't like or care about anything Julie Rowe says. But not liking someone's beliefs isn't a reason for excommunication unless it is clearly against church doctrine. She is clearly against church doctrine—egregiously so point of fact.

I believe people should be free to share their beliefs. Stopping the exchange of ideas is extremely harmful, so harmful that it is acknowledged by the founding fathers in the bill of rights. The right to speech should not be infringed. Our own government acknowledges this. Our eleventh article of faith acknowledges this. So what exactly are these fruits that are rotten, besides the fact that most people don't like them? Where exactly are her teachings against the doctrine of the church, as specifically stated by our church leaders? no one has take the right of free speech away from her. For you to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Every book, radio show, podcast, event she is responsible for contains false doctrine. It is very sad how easily she has deceived you and her followers.

If she is excommunicated for leading people astray, surely people have a right to know exactly why.

If not, we can assume it has nothing to do with anything she has said, (False). and is a private matter between her and the church. JR made it public

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

[Juliet]

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps Juliets larger point was lost here. Clearly she's making the point that there are a lot of "strange" doctrines of such we have little information. Please don't join in the primary manual police. When folks endeavor to shame someone's beliefs, well that's both a tactic of the adversary and has the unspoken, yet loud subtext that says "my understanding is superior than yours." The latter leads to contention and both are not fruits of the Spirit but of the devil. Are we not a peculiar people? Is peculiar closer in meaning to strange or normal?

Despite what desert wonderer said there is no official statement from the church against mmp. You'll find an apostle here that speaks for an apostle there who speaks against. You'll find articles on lds.org that seem to speak for and ones that speak against. If you want to engage further on this I'll be happy to do so in any number of mmp threads that exist.

Back to Juliets larger point as I understand it. There are a lot of things out there that aren't revealed yet. The knowledge police not only assume they know what hasn't been revealed but use often use shame to silence others with very little substance. This phenomenon is explained in Alma 12 9-11 iirc

Thank you, you are right about the larger point.

[justme]

A thought on MMP

Apparently Orson Whitney was really caught up with the MMP idealogy for a while

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2018/07 ... e-q-cannon

but recanted before being called to the twelve. It is an interesting story.

[Themedicareguy]

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

[Alaris]

A thought on MMP

Apparently Orson Whitney was really caught up with the MMP idealogy for a while

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2018/07 ... e-q-cannon

but recanted before being called to the twelve. It is an interesting story.

I'll be happy to discuss this and whatever else in an MMP thread - I'll quote you over there if that's OK with you.

[Juliet]

I have pondered these scriptures when it comes to doctrine.

Celestial Marriage

D&C 132:

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Multiple Mortal Probations:

After the final judgement, we are sent to one of three kingdoms. One of those kingdoms is the telestial kingdom.

This Earth is in a telestial state right now. That means those of us here are also in a telestial state. Are we going to be in a telestial state forever?

D&C 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

D&C 93: 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

The way we will be saved will be by receiving grace by grace, and by the Spirit of Truth which tells us what what has been, what is, and what is to come.

How about energy healing.

Jesus taught:

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13)

What works did Jesus do? He did works of healing, both remotely and by laying on of hands. Can only a priesthood holder have the gift to heal?

D&C 46:17 And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given, by the Spirit of God, the word of wisdom.

18 To another is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

19 And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed;

20 And to others it is given to have faith to heal.

We see in these scriptures that the ability to heal is a gift and it is given by the spirit of God, not by the priesthood, and it operates by faith.

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

[Themedicareguy]

This might be the strangest interpretation of scripture I have ever seen. And I have read a lot of I AM's posts.

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

[justme]

A thought on MMP

Apparently Orson Whitney was really caught up with the MMP idealogy for a while

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2018/07 ... e-q-cannon

but recanted before being called to the twelve. It is an interesting story.

I'll be happy to discuss this and whatever else in an MMP thread - I'll quote you over there if that's OK with you.

Sure, I would be interested in hearing your take on this story. I am relatively new hear so I don't know if this Whitney story is old news.

[Juliet]

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

I think we all believe things that are not true sometimes. Sometimes we have to choose what we believe first and then see if it brings good fruit. I don't think it applicable to be so afraid of falling down that someone's attempts to walk are limited.

What's the difference between acting in faith and opening Pandora's box? How would you know which was which without action of some sort?

[Alaris]

When you encounter someone's interpretation that is different then yours, does that automatically mean it must not be true?

If you take a physics class and the answer in the back of the book is different then yours, do you assume the answer book is strange?

Surely we are all learning here.

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

[Themedicareguy]

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

Interesting you post that quote. Look at what Joseph said he believes all that God has REVEALED. MMP has not been revealed.

[Alaris]

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

Interesting you post that quote. Look at what Joseph said he believes all that God has REVEALED. MMP has not been revealed.

Lol read the articles of faith.

And I beg to differ as to whether it has been revealed. Click "Lastest Posts" and you'll see one of the MMP threads near the top.

[Juliet]

When any member of the Church starts teaching things that aren't doctrine or is speculative it's opens up a whole Pandora's box. Satan can easily influence the person that is looking for additional TRUTH on some random message board. When you or Alaris start posting about MMP or whatever it might be it is essentially teaching something that you know little about, and others might take as doctrine. If you are to get further light and knowledge such as MMP it's best you keep it to yourself or share only with loved ones. It's not appropriate to share on message boards, that is exactly how false teachers come about. I am sure you will have a nice rebuttal to this, but this is my opinion that it is best not to speculate as an anonymous source about something that may or may not be doctrine. I am seeking further light and knowledge from true messengers of the Lord. Are you? And how would I know?

Thank you for your response. I don't advocate the doctrine. I am advocating it's possibility. I am not sure on it.

I suppose there needs to be a limit to doctrine in terms of application to our daily lives. However, I don't want to limit what is possible when it comes to spiritual reality.

Perhaps it is our beliefs that are more important than what is actually true. Maybe anything could be true if we believe it.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

I think of it as the physicist verses the theoretical mathmatecian. The mathmatecian is all about the universe, invisible realities, other dimensions, and etc. He is untethered
by limits of thought because he can identify so much as true according to the principles of math even if it is unseen in our physical world.

But who do you want designing your car? I want the physicist. I want the guy who understands margin of error, can decide how much friction in the gear shaft is negligible verses problematic, and etc.

Truth and applied truth for our daily life can meet different criteria.

I love to think of all the realities that are possible but I still have to do my dishes by hand. I like to entertain the theories, but I have yet to be able to do my dishes by thought.

Jesus is so exemplary because He could apply the doctrine to bring forth great miracles.

[Themedicareguy]

Yes thank you! Once we start down Pandora's box then anything can be true if we just think it is.

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

Interesting you post that quote. Look at what Joseph said he believes all that God has REVEALED. MMP has not been revealed.

Lol read the articles of faith.

Why are you mocking me? That is not very kind. I am so glad the Lord has revealed it to you. I don't know who you are and will not except it from someone on a random board. It needs to come from Messengers from the Lord. Are you a messenger from the Lord? If you are please make yourself known.

[Alaris]

Belief is a great topic of study.

“I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” Joseph Smith

Who is worse off - the believing person who gets only 10 % right or the person who says "we have enough" who has it 90 % correct in that moment?

Interesting you post that quote. Look at what Joseph said he believes all that God has REVEALED. MMP has not been revealed.

Lol read the articles of faith.

Why are you mocking me? That is not very kind. I am so glad the Lord has revealed it to you. I don't know who you are and will not except it from someone on a random board. It needs to come from Messengers from the Lord. Are you a messenger from the Lord? If you are please make yourself known.

Apologies. I promise no mocking intended. Your caps made laugh due to a recent exchange but I should not have conveyed that. I edited the above post before you posted this response. If you click latest posts at the top of these forums you'll see the mmp thread where I posted two articles I've written on the topic.

Again apologies for lolling

[DesertWonderer2]

None of the scriptures that you or anyone else have posted to try to support EH or MMP / reincarnation have anything to do with either. They both are utterly false ideas. Sorry.

Please go ask your bishop / SP about these ideas.

When we are to know truth, it isn't by flesh and blood but by our Father in Heaven. If the Stake President teaches the truth, the Holy Spirit will testify of it. And there will be two witnesses.

One of the first lessons in the Come Follow Me Manuel taught about Nathaniel, and how He witnessed that Jesus was the Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also Jesus asked Peter how he knew He was the Son of God, and he also knew through the Holy Spirit.

There were people who when they heard that Jesus believed He was the Son of God, that mocked Him and spit on Him and wanted to know what they would like like when they were damned. They obviously were not given the witness of truth that was given to Peter and Nathaniel.

I don't think people with the spirit of mockery speak the truth. I believe that the Spirit of Truth is adorned with loving kindness, peace, long suffering, joy, and the fruits of the spirit.

We do need to discern between truth and error. But that discernment does not come by man.

Surely every man with priesthood keys will be targeted and under attack. Satan wants those keys. Satan wants to deceive, and what better way then to deceive someone with a large stewardship.

I believe that whom The Lord calls, He qualifies. But that requires a willing heart. And if someone purposely uses their agency to use their priesthood keys to further the kingdom of Satan, then we cannot say there are no hypocrites or wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, flesh and blood does not reveal these things but the Father in Heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within. In Jeremiah 31 it teaches the day will come where everyone has the word of God written in their heart and no one will say to their neighbor know ye the Lord, for everyone will know Him in their heart.

Our stake President's number one job is to help people come unto Christ.

Any dispute in doctrine shows that in general, the Holy Spirit is not witnessing to people. When Jesus came to the Nephites, there was no contention among them. There were no disputations among them. They all individually prayed to the Father and each had the Holy Spirit.

I have never read in scripture or learned in Sunday School that my Stake President is the testator of truth. That is the job for the Holy Spirit and to take that away from the member of the godhead and give it to a man is blasphemous and against the scriptures which say in D&C 50 that there are hypocrites in the Lord's church.

I sustain my leaders in as much as they follow the Holy Spirit. They do not sustain me, I sustain them. If they take away my temple recommend for not sustaining them, and I am not evil or a hypocrite, then I wouldn't sustain that action. Nor would the Holy Spirit.

I know people have great trust in their leaders. But it isn't doctrinal. The doctrine is that truth comes by the Holy Spirit. And we are also taught that some leaders are wicked. Therefore we are asked to receive a witness through the Holy Spirit that our leaders are called of God, and to sustain them in what they do.

If a leader is helping someone come unto Christ, it will not be by compulsion but by gentle persuasion and long suffering. Maybe occasionally with rebuke, as lead by the Holy Spirit, but afterwards showing an increase in love.

The D&C 50 is very clear that even a teacher, if he or she does not teach by the spirit of truth, then it is by some other way and it is not of God.

And how do we know it is by the Spirit of Truth? Because both the teacher and the student receive it, both are enlightened, and both rejoice together.

That's the doctrine. It isn't one person's word against another. It is when both see eye to eye that the teacher has been successful toward the student in teaching the truth.

It has been revealed to me through the HG that MMP/Reincarnation, Energy Healing and JR are all false and lead people away from Christ.

[Juliet]

None of the scriptures that you or anyone else have posted to try to support EH or MMP / reincarnation have anything to do with either. They both are utterly false ideas. Sorry.

Please go ask your bishop / SP about these ideas.

When we are to know truth, it isn't by flesh and blood but by our Father in Heaven. If the Stake President teaches the truth, the Holy Spirit will testify of it. And there will be two witnesses.

One of the first lessons in the Come Follow Me Manuel taught about Nathaniel, and how He witnessed that Jesus was the Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also Jesus asked Peter how he knew He was the Son of God, and he also knew through the Holy Spirit.

There were people who when they heard that Jesus believed He was the Son of God, that mocked Him and spit on Him and wanted to know what they would like like when they were damned. They obviously were not given the witness of truth that was given to Peter and Nathaniel.

I don't think people with the spirit of mockery speak the truth. I believe that the Spirit of Truth is adorned with loving kindness, peace, long suffering, joy, and the fruits of the spirit.

We do need to discern between truth and error. But that discernment does not come by man.

Surely every man with priesthood keys will be targeted and under attack. Satan wants those keys. Satan wants to deceive, and what better way then to deceive someone with a large stewardship.

I believe that whom The Lord calls, He qualifies. But that requires a willing heart. And if someone purposely uses their agency to use their priesthood keys to further the kingdom of Satan, then we cannot say there are no hypocrites or wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, flesh and blood does not reveal these things but the Father in Heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within. In Jeremiah 31 it teaches the day will come where everyone has the word of God written in their heart and no one will say to their neighbor know ye the Lord, for everyone will know Him in their heart.

Our stake President's number one job is to help people come unto Christ.

Any dispute in doctrine shows that in general, the Holy Spirit is not witnessing to people. When Jesus came to the Nephites, there was no contention among them. There were no disputations among them. They all individually prayed to the Father and each had the Holy Spirit.

I have never read in scripture or learned in Sunday School that my Stake President is the testator of truth. That is the job for the Holy Spirit and to take that away from the member of the godhead and give it to a man is blasphemous and against the scriptures which say in D&C 50 that there are hypocrites in the Lord's church.

I sustain my leaders in as much as they follow the Holy Spirit. They do not sustain me, I sustain them. If they take away my temple recommend for not sustaining them, and I am not evil or a hypocrite, then I wouldn't sustain that action. Nor would the Holy Spirit.

I know people have great trust in their leaders. But it isn't doctrinal. The doctrine is that truth comes by the Holy Spirit. And we are also taught that some leaders are wicked. Therefore we are asked to receive a witness through the Holy Spirit that our leaders are called of God, and to sustain them in what they do.

If a leader is helping someone come unto Christ, it will not be by compulsion but by gentle persuasion and long suffering. Maybe occasionally with rebuke, as lead by the Holy Spirit, but afterwards showing an increase in love.

The D&C 50 is very clear that even a teacher, if he or she does not teach by the spirit of truth, then it is by some other way and it is not of God.

And how do we know it is by the Spirit of Truth? Because both the teacher and the student receive it, both are enlightened, and both rejoice together.

That's the doctrine. It isn't one person's word against another. It is when both see eye to eye that the teacher has been successful toward the student in teaching the truth.

It has been revealed to me through the HG that MMP/Reincarnation, Energy Healing and JR are all false and lead people away from Christ.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Many a good person do not agree or get along on principle issues. I know the founding fathers had quite a few bash out sessions before drafting the Constitution. I am sure there is truth behind all disagreements. Truth which cannot be accurately identified without some serious debate. And it seems many people close the door on debate way before it gets interesting, way before new avenues of thinking can be identified. I myself would rather debate knowing it brings up issues that force me to see I may be wrong, in hopes that a better way of understanding can emerge from it.

"Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her".
-Han Solo

[topcat]

I posted this over a year ago:

After observing the likes of Denver snuffer, Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe over the past few years, I've gotten a better picture of how members of the church slide into apostasy.

At first the message is safe and simple : Follow the prophet, but hey, you know what happened to me?

Then it evolves into: I had an experience that makes me special, but you should still follow the Prophet.

Then: I have been given hidden knowledge concerning your safety or salvation, but you should pray about it and follow the prophet.

Then: I've been called on a mission to wake people up with secret information that is too dangerous for the prophet to say, so still follow the prophet, but pay attention to what I have to say.

Then: The Prophet has turned his back on my message because we must learn not to be spoon fed the gospel. God, in times of need gives revelation to those outside the system, in order to wake up the people.

Finally: The Prophet is fallen and lost. I have been commanded to right the ship. Follow me.

Julie radiates pride. She is inundated with it. It drips off her lips in everything she says. Her actions reflect pure pride. Satan has wound the flaxen cord of pride around her so tight that she is ripe with pride and a hard heart. I really do feel sorry for her, but she is dangerous now — Regardless if she is mentally ill.

Those of you who are still justifying any actions or words spoken by Julie Rowe are in serious danger of kicking yourself out of the church.

Todd,

Can you point to a "prophet" anywhere who has the fruit of a prophet like Joseph Smith? I'd be interested in hearing what he had to say.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

None of the scriptures that you or anyone else have posted to try to support EH or MMP / reincarnation have anything to do with either. They both are utterly false ideas. Sorry.

Please go ask your bishop / SP about these ideas.

When we are to know truth, it isn't by flesh and blood but by our Father in Heaven. If the Stake President teaches the truth, the Holy Spirit will testify of it. And there will be two witnesses.

One of the first lessons in the Come Follow Me Manuel taught about Nathaniel, and how He witnessed that Jesus was the Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also Jesus asked Peter how he knew He was the Son of God, and he also knew through the Holy Spirit.

There were people who when they heard that Jesus believed He was the Son of God, that mocked Him and spit on Him and wanted to know what they would like like when they were damned. They obviously were not given the witness of truth that was given to Peter and Nathaniel.

I don't think people with the spirit of mockery speak the truth. I believe that the Spirit of Truth is adorned with loving kindness, peace, long suffering, joy, and the fruits of the spirit.

We do need to discern between truth and error. But that discernment does not come by man.

Surely every man with priesthood keys will be targeted and under attack. Satan wants those keys. Satan wants to deceive, and what better way then to deceive someone with a large stewardship.

I believe that whom The Lord calls, He qualifies. But that requires a willing heart. And if someone purposely uses their agency to use their priesthood keys to further the kingdom of Satan, then we cannot say there are no hypocrites or wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, flesh and blood does not reveal these things but the Father in Heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within. In Jeremiah 31 it teaches the day will come where everyone has the word of God written in their heart and no one will say to their neighbor know ye the Lord, for everyone will know Him in their heart.

Our stake President's number one job is to help people come unto Christ.

Any dispute in doctrine shows that in general, the Holy Spirit is not witnessing to people. When Jesus came to the Nephites, there was no contention among them. There were no disputations among them. They all individually prayed to the Father and each had the Holy Spirit.

I have never read in scripture or learned in Sunday School that my Stake President is the testator of truth. That is the job for the Holy Spirit and to take that away from the member of the godhead and give it to a man is blasphemous and against the scriptures which say in D&C 50 that there are hypocrites in the Lord's church.

I sustain my leaders in as much as they follow the Holy Spirit. They do not sustain me, I sustain them. If they take away my temple recommend for not sustaining them, and I am not evil or a hypocrite, then I wouldn't sustain that action. Nor would the Holy Spirit.

I know people have great trust in their leaders. But it isn't doctrinal. The doctrine is that truth comes by the Holy Spirit. And we are also taught that some leaders are wicked. Therefore we are asked to receive a witness through the Holy Spirit that our leaders are called of God, and to sustain them in what they do.

If a leader is helping someone come unto Christ, it will not be by compulsion but by gentle persuasion and long suffering. Maybe occasionally with rebuke, as lead by the Holy Spirit, but afterwards showing an increase in love.

The D&C 50 is very clear that even a teacher, if he or she does not teach by the spirit of truth, then it is by some other way and it is not of God.

And how do we know it is by the Spirit of Truth? Because both the teacher and the student receive it, both are enlightened, and both rejoice together.

That's the doctrine. It isn't one person's word against another. It is when both see eye to eye that the teacher has been successful toward the student in teaching the truth.

It has been revealed to me through the HG that MMP/Reincarnation, Energy Healing and JR are all false and lead people away from Christ.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Many a good person do not agree or get along on principle issues. I know the founding fathers had quite a few bash out sessions before drafting the Constitution. I am sure there is truth behind all disagreements. Truth which cannot be accurately identified without some serious debate. And it seems many people close the door on debate way before it gets interesting, way before new avenues of thinking can be identified. I myself would rather debate knowing it brings up issues that force me to see I may be wrong, in hopes that a better way of understanding can emerge from it.

"Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her".
-Han Solo

Truth is not in the eye of the beholder.

And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
D&C 93:24

What these people think is "truth" is nothing more than ideology, which is often far from the truth. People debate ideology, not "truth" as is defined in the scriptures, not of things as they really, truly are, not what you want it to be. I have found that all too often, "new avenues of thinking" divert from the way of "things as they are." Take, for instance, "gender fluidity." That is a pile of smelly biological excrement. That is not science nor truth, but an ideology promoted by the devil. Just because someone thinks something should be "truth" doesn't make it truth for him or anyone else.

[Juliet]

When we are to know truth, it isn't by flesh and blood but by our Father in Heaven. If the Stake President teaches the truth, the Holy Spirit will testify of it. And there will be two witnesses.

One of the first lessons in the Come Follow Me Manuel taught about Nathaniel, and how He witnessed that Jesus was the Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also Jesus asked Peter how he knew He was the Son of God, and he also knew through the Holy Spirit.

There were people who when they heard that Jesus believed He was the Son of God, that mocked Him and spit on Him and wanted to know what they would like like when they were damned. They obviously were not given the witness of truth that was given to Peter and Nathaniel.

I don't think people with the spirit of mockery speak the truth. I believe that the Spirit of Truth is adorned with loving kindness, peace, long suffering, joy, and the fruits of the spirit.

We do need to discern between truth and error. But that discernment does not come by man.

Surely every man with priesthood keys will be targeted and under attack. Satan wants those keys. Satan wants to deceive, and what better way then to deceive someone with a large stewardship.

I believe that whom The Lord calls, He qualifies. But that requires a willing heart. And if someone purposely uses their agency to use their priesthood keys to further the kingdom of Satan, then we cannot say there are no hypocrites or wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, flesh and blood does not reveal these things but the Father in Heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within. In Jeremiah 31 it teaches the day will come where everyone has the word of God written in their heart and no one will say to their neighbor know ye the Lord, for everyone will know Him in their heart.

Our stake President's number one job is to help people come unto Christ.

Any dispute in doctrine shows that in general, the Holy Spirit is not witnessing to people. When Jesus came to the Nephites, there was no contention among them. There were no disputations among them. They all individually prayed to the Father and each had the Holy Spirit.

I have never read in scripture or learned in Sunday School that my Stake President is the testator of truth. That is the job for the Holy Spirit and to take that away from the member of the godhead and give it to a man is blasphemous and against the scriptures which say in D&C 50 that there are hypocrites in the Lord's church.

I sustain my leaders in as much as they follow the Holy Spirit. They do not sustain me, I sustain them. If they take away my temple recommend for not sustaining them, and I am not evil or a hypocrite, then I wouldn't sustain that action. Nor would the Holy Spirit.

I know people have great trust in their leaders. But it isn't doctrinal. The doctrine is that truth comes by the Holy Spirit. And we are also taught that some leaders are wicked. Therefore we are asked to receive a witness through the Holy Spirit that our leaders are called of God, and to sustain them in what they do.

If a leader is helping someone come unto Christ, it will not be by compulsion but by gentle persuasion and long suffering. Maybe occasionally with rebuke, as lead by the Holy Spirit, but afterwards showing an increase in love.

The D&C 50 is very clear that even a teacher, if he or she does not teach by the spirit of truth, then it is by some other way and it is not of God.

And how do we know it is by the Spirit of Truth? Because both the teacher and the student receive it, both are enlightened, and both rejoice together.

That's the doctrine. It isn't one person's word against another. It is when both see eye to eye that the teacher has been successful toward the student in teaching the truth.

It has been revealed to me through the HG that MMP/Reincarnation, Energy Healing and JR are all false and lead people away from Christ.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Many a good person do not agree or get along on principle issues. I know the founding fathers had quite a few bash out sessions before drafting the Constitution. I am sure there is truth behind all disagreements. Truth which cannot be accurately identified without some serious debate. And it seems many people close the door on debate way before it gets interesting, way before new avenues of thinking can be identified. I myself would rather debate knowing it brings up issues that force me to see I may be wrong, in hopes that a better way of understanding can emerge from it.

"Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her".
-Han Solo

Truth is not in the eye of the beholder.

And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
D&C 93:24

What these people think is "truth" is nothing more than ideology, which is often far from the truth. People debate ideology, not "truth" as is defined in the scriptures, not of things as they really, truly are, not what you want it to be. I have found that all too often, "new avenues of thinking" divert from the way of "things as they are." Take, for instance, "gender fluidity." That is a pile of smelly biological excrement. That is not science nor truth, but an ideology promoted by the devil. Just because someone thinks something should be "truth" doesn't make it truth for him or anyone else.

I suppose it is in the application of ideology where something exposes itself as unfruitful.