Deseret News publishes pro-abortion-rights article

[Lizzy60]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... tests.html

The Deseret News says that the LDS Church and the state of Utah are "nuanced" in their stance on abortion, allowing it under certain circumstances. The state -- up to 18 weeks (by that time the baby's heart has been beating for over two months) and both Church and state for cases of rape or incest, or detriment to the mother.

Isaiah, Mormon and other scriptural prophets truly saw and prophesied of the evils of the last days, even in the Church and among those professing to be followers of Christ.

[Egoof]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... tests.html

The Deseret News says that the LDS Church and the state of Utah are "nuanced" in their stance on abortion, allowing it under certain circumstances. The state -- up to 18 weeks (by that time the baby's heart has been beating for over two months) and both Church and state for cases of rape or incest, or detriment to the mother.

Isaiah, Mormon and other scriptural prophets truly saw and prophesied of the evils of the last days, even in the Church and among those professing to be followers of Christ.

Here is the direct quote from the article -
"Utah as a general rule has seen and reflected that nuance" in its abortion laws, said William Duncan, director of the conservative Sutherland Institute’s Center for Family and Society. "So I believe Utah sort of approaches the issue differently than other states do."

The quote is from William Duncan, not Russell M. Nelson. Please stop taking articles from deseret news as doctrine preached from the prophet over the pulpit.

[kittycat51]

To be more specific on the matter this is from ChurchofJesusChrist.org: https://www.lds.org/topics/abortion?lang=eng

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

In today's society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord's declaration, "Thou shalt not … kill, nor do anything like unto it" (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services.

[Lizzy60]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... tests.html

The Deseret News says that the LDS Church and the state of Utah are "nuanced" in their stance on abortion, allowing it under certain circumstances. The state -- up to 18 weeks (by that time the baby's heart has been beating for over two months) and both Church and state for cases of rape or incest, or detriment to the mother.

Isaiah, Mormon and other scriptural prophets truly saw and prophesied of the evils of the last days, even in the Church and among those professing to be followers of Christ.

Here is the direct quote from the article -
"Utah as a general rule has seen and reflected that nuance" in its abortion laws, said William Duncan, director of the conservative Sutherland Institute’s Center for Family and Society. "So I believe Utah sort of approaches the issue differently than other states do."

The quote is from William Duncan, not Russell M. Nelson. Please stop taking articles from deseret news as doctrine preached from the prophet over the pulpit.

Here is the direct quote from the article, where you will see that the "that nuance" your quote refers to is the LDS Church's own "nuance."

.....American's views are often less black and white than might be assumed — and in Utah, where the influence of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its stance on abortion adds an additional layer of nuance to the conversation, debate surrounding the country’s strictest abortion laws may play out differently than in other states, observers say.

"Utah as a general rule has seen and reflected that nuance" in its abortion laws, said William Duncan, director of the conservative Sutherland Institute’s Center for Family and Society. "So I believe Utah sort of approaches the issue differently than other states do."

[Egoof]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... tests.html

The Deseret News says that the LDS Church and the state of Utah are "nuanced" in their stance on abortion, allowing it under certain circumstances. The state -- up to 18 weeks (by that time the baby's heart has been beating for over two months) and both Church and state for cases of rape or incest, or detriment to the mother.

Isaiah, Mormon and other scriptural prophets truly saw and prophesied of the evils of the last days, even in the Church and among those professing to be followers of Christ.

Here is the direct quote from the article -
"Utah as a general rule has seen and reflected that nuance" in its abortion laws, said William Duncan, director of the conservative Sutherland Institute’s Center for Family and Society. "So I believe Utah sort of approaches the issue differently than other states do."

The quote is from William Duncan, not Russell M. Nelson. Please stop taking articles from deseret news as doctrine preached from the prophet over the pulpit.

Here is the direct quote from the article, where you will see that the "that nuance" your quote refers to is the LDS Church's own "nuance."

.....American's views are often less black and white than might be assumed — and in Utah, where the influence of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its stance on abortion adds an additional layer of nuance to the conversation, debate surrounding the country’s strictest abortion laws may play out differently than in other states, observers say.

"Utah as a general rule has seen and reflected that nuance" in its abortion laws, said William Duncan, director of the conservative Sutherland Institute’s Center for Family and Society. "So I believe Utah sort of approaches the issue differently than other states do."

Kittycat posted the exact stance that the church has on abortion and it isn't Pro-abortion. From the title of the OP and your post, you seem to be implying that the church is pro abortion or starting to lean that way and I don't feel like that is the truth.

[Lizzy60]

I'm glad kittycat posted the statement from the Church. The first two paragraphs are excellent statements, that I believe are totally in line with God's view of abortion. However, the third paragraph, the one with what the article called "nuance" is the one that some members, some Bishops, and some Stake Presidents have driven a bus though.

Rape? A teenager may allege rape because she's afraid of getting in trouble for getting pregnant. Health of the mother? One father posted that having a baby while in high school would have "destroyed" his daughter's mental health. Life of the mother? Some have claimed they were suicidal at the thought of revealing they were pregnant. One LDS woman on another forum said that she would abort because more than two children would be emotionally and financially devastating for her and her husband. She said she was GRATEFUL that the Church understood. I was appalled, and of course I don't know her personally, but are there really people in our congregations who believe this, and think the Church believes that abortion is okay under some circumstances? I shudder to think that this "nuance" leads to their beliefs. Yes, give an inch and some few people will take a mile. Judgement belongs to God, but it breaks my heart when I read that Planned Parenthood lists the LDS Church as "moderately pro-choice."

[Lizzy60]

An interesting article:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-one-s ... _b_8804912

" Mormons are often assumed to be anti-abortion, but the church’s stance on abortion is quite nuanced and moderate to the point that other pro-life groups do not consider us allies. Mormons believe that there are important exceptions to opposition to abortion rights, including life or health of the mother, rape or incest."

[Vision]

Do liberal women reproduce a-sexually? I didn't see any men in the pictures.

[Lizzy60]

Do liberal women reproduce a-sexually? I didn't see any men in the pictures.

The latest thing is that men have no right to a voice or an opinion on abortion.

[Col. Flagg]

Any decent, sensitive, moral and ethical mother would see a child through to term regardless of the circumstances that led to the pregnancy. If a mother doesn't want the baby, she can always give the child up for adoption before becoming emotionally attached, but sometimes that has already happened before birth. It's a difficult issue, to be sure, but life should always win out where and if possible.

[Michelle]

I'm glad kittycat posted the statement from the Church. The first two paragraphs are excellent statements, that I believe are totally in line with God's view of abortion. However, the third paragraph, the one with what the article called "nuance" is the one that some members, some Bishops, and some Stake Presidents have driven a bus though.

Rape? A teenager may allege rape because she's afraid of getting in trouble for getting pregnant. Health of the mother? One father posted that having a baby while in high school would have "destroyed" his daughter's mental health. Life of the mother? Some have claimed they were suicidal at the thought of revealing they were pregnant. One LDS woman on another forum said that she would abort because more than two children would be emotionally and financially devastating for her and her husband. She said she was GRATEFUL that the Church understood. I was appalled, and of course I don't know her personally, but are there really people in our congregations who believe this, and think the Church believes that abortion is okay under some circumstances? I shudder to think that this "nuance" leads to their beliefs. Yes, give an inch and some few people will take a mile. Judgement belongs to God, but it breaks my heart when I read that Planned Parenthood lists the LDS Church as "moderately pro-choice."

Agreed. I think it is the natural extension of birth control being so widely accepted by the members of the Church that leads them to think that abortion is acceptable.

[EmmaLee]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

[harakim]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

This is a bizarre problem.

[dezNatDefender]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

That's what happens when you get the government involved. There is plenty of demand for children and there is clearly plenty of supply of unwanted children. But instead of making a market and helping those who want children pay those who don't want children to take their children . . .what do we do . . .we kill the supply, making lawyers, regulators and all other third-party weasles happy b/c now they can get paid thousands of dollars doing nothing more than pushing paper, and both couples less happy.

Think about it, these women who want abortions and don't want to have kids, what if someone said-look don't have an abortion, I'll pay you 10k to have the baby, just we'll adopt.

But no, that would "offend" our sensibilities b/c that would just be a "baby market" . . .yeah I guess it's better we just kill them rather than have a baby market.

Instead, it's cheaper to go fly half-way across the globe, adopt some russian baby or have a surrogacy all the way around the world rather than doing it in your own back yard!

Great job USA!

[EmmaLee]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

This is a bizarre problem.

What is bizarre - the infertility? Or the lack of babies to adopt? Or the ridiculous cost to adopt a baby?

[EmmaLee]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

That's what happens when you get the government involved. There is plenty of demand for children and there is clearly plenty of supply of unwanted children. But instead of making a market and helping those who want children pay those who don't want children to take their children . . .what do we do . . .we kill the supply, making lawyers, regulators and all other third-party weasles happy b/c now they can get paid thousands of dollars doing nothing more than pushing paper, and both couples less happy.

Think about it, these women who want abortions and don't want to have kids, what if someone said-look don't have an abortion, I'll pay you 10k to have the baby, just we'll adopt.

But no, that would "offend" our sensibilities b/c that would just be a "baby market" . . .yeah I guess it's better we just kill them rather than have a baby market.

Instead, it's cheaper to go fly half-way across the globe, adopt some russian baby or have a surrogacy all the way around the world rather than doing it in your own back yard!

Great job USA!

Yep, exactly right.

[harakim]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

This is a bizarre problem.

What is bizarre - the infertility? Or the lack of babies to adopt? Or the ridiculous cost to adopt a baby?

The ridiculous cost

[EmmaLee]

I know so many young, healthy, fit LDS couples who are trying without success to become pregnant. They would give anything to be able to adopt a baby for less than $40,000 (none of these young couples have anywhere near that amount to spend) - but none are available.

This is a bizarre problem.

What is bizarre - the infertility? Or the lack of babies to adopt? Or the ridiculous cost to adopt a baby?

The ridiculous cost

I agree completely - it's just craziness. Even going to another country to try and adopt a baby, it's a minimum of $20,000, plus usually 3 weeks of being in that country (passport cost, hotels, food, etc. for that long, and the cost of flying there and back) - endless paperwork, interviews, bribes (sorry, but true), and there's always the chance that you'll go through all that and come home without a baby. My husband and I went through this 20 years ago after I wasn't able to bear anymore children, and it's even worse today. I feel so bad for these young couples.

[Themedicareguy]

To be more specific on the matter this is from ChurchofJesusChrist.org: https://www.lds.org/topics/abortion?lang=eng

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

In today's society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord's declaration, "Thou shalt not … kill, nor do anything like unto it" (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services.

Let me give you my testimony on this. My wife and I could not have a child for several years. At one point we gave up hope. Then miraculously she was pregnant. After the 15 week appointment the Doctor told us our baby had Anencephaly. He told us we should abort the child and try again. Others told us this as well. It never even crossed our minds to do this. We had prayed for a child for so long and now we were going to be getting a child born alive or dead. I didn't know until I read this that the Church is OK with abortion if the child was going to die. But the quote from this stood out to me, " or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer". We never prayed about abortion because we didn't have to. I believe the Lord saw our faith and has now blessed us with 3 beautiful kids. So even though the Church says it's OK it has to be done with the Spirit in mind. We never know the blessings the Lord has for us even in tough circumstances unless we heed the spirit's promptings.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

To be more specific on the matter this is from ChurchofJesusChrist.org: https://www.lds.org/topics/abortion?lang=eng

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

In today's society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord's declaration, "Thou shalt not … kill, nor do anything like unto it" (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services.

Let me give you my testimony on this. My wife and I could not have a child for several years. At one point we gave up hope. Then miraculously she was pregnant. After the 15 week appointment the Doctor told us our baby had Anencephaly. He told us we should abort the child and try again. Others told us this as well. It never even crossed our minds to do this. We had prayed for a child for so long and now we were going to be getting a child born alive or dead. I didn't know until I read this that the Church is OK with abortion if the child was going to die. But the quote from this stood out to me, " or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer". We never prayed about abortion because we didn't have to. I believe the Lord saw our faith and has now blessed us with 3 beautiful kids. So even though the Church says it's OK it has to be done with the Spirit in mind. We never know the blessings the Lord has for us even in tough circumstances unless we heed the spirit's promptings.

Thanks for sharing.