President Nelson says church will donate to mosques

[DesertWonderer2]

Nicely done Pres Nelson.

[tdj]

And yet here we are...Screenshot_2019-05-23-03-10-29-1.png

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

[Aprhys]

And yet here we are...Screenshot_2019-05-23-03-10-29-1.png

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

So we are paying of the death cult to leave us alone and disrespecting our savior so they leave us alone? Good heavens are we that weak?

[tdj]

And yet here we are...Screenshot_2019-05-23-03-10-29-1.png

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

So we are paying of the death cult to leave us alone and disrespecting our savior so they leave us alone? Good heavens are we that weak?

I think we are. We're NOTHING like the pioneers of old. But if the church's position is to push peace, love non violence, and tolerance for all to the point of even frowning on its members packing guns to church for protection, then I'd have to say this approach is our best and perhaps only option.

[Lizzy60]

And yet here we are...Screenshot_2019-05-23-03-10-29-1.png

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

And this is why the Church will eventually give in totally to the Gay Agenda. We are weak, and afraid of persecution, and we want to keep our stuff.

[dezNatDefender]

And yet here we are...Screenshot_2019-05-23-03-10-29-1.png

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

And this is why the Church will eventually give in totally to the Gay Agenda. We are weak, and afraid of persecution, and we want to keep our stuff.

Amen, we are a dead religion. We won't survive as one for much longer. We don't have enough faith in our God.

[Lizzy60]

There are three possibilities to explain this:

First, and by far the most likely, is that the pictures were covered by well meaning but ill informed LDS Church members who are under the mistaken belief that a picture of Christ would somehow be offensive to Muslims.

Second, the picture was covered out of respect for the Muslim practice of not having art forms that represent things that are created by God. This would then apply to pictures of people, animals or even landscapes. The reasoning for this is to avoid anything even remotely connected to idol worship. This is why Islamic art is generally focused on geometric patterns. The history here is that the Prophet Mohammed cast out idols in Mecca at the beginning of his ministry and this is why visual representation of him are forbidden in Islam less any Muslim start to worship Mohammed and not God. Idol worship, or anything even remotely similar to it, is a very serious sin in Islam.

Third, and I find this highly unlikely, the Muslim worshipers covered the painting themselves. Even if this was the case the reason for doing so would likely be number two above and not out of any disrespect for Jesus whom they hold in very high regard.

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

And this is why the Church will eventually give in totally to the Gay Agenda. We are weak, and afraid of persecution, and we want to keep our stuff.

Amen, we are a dead religion. We won't survive as one for much longer. We don't have enough faith in our God.

And that is when Christ and His "arm of righteousness" (Isaiah 48 and 49), the Last Days Servant, will reveal themselves and call out those who are willing to give (consecrate) everything to build Zion.

[Zathura]

I don’t have a problem with Elder Nelson donating to the New Zealand Mosques. These people really needed it. Love your neighbor as yourself, give to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. While they practice a different religion does not mean they are not our neighbor. For example, Elder Packer spoke about rebuilding the Christian churches in Japan after WWII.

If you remember we were persecuted in Missouri, gunned down, and our temples burned. The muslim faith is not a bad faith. The Koran teaches charitable acts. There are only, relatively, few of the billions of Muslims in the world that practice radical jihad. For example, pres. Hinckley described the terrorism involved in 9/11 as evil, similar to gadianton combinations.

I don’t have a problem with them using our relief society room. Our ward uses the relief society room for yoga classes on Tuesday nights. Let them worship, how, where or what they may. In addition, I grew up in places outside of Zion. It was not uncommon for branches or wards to use chapels of other faiths until a suitable meetinghouse was constructed or repaired.

I believe Pres. Nelson made a wise move. Not only because it was Christlike, showed good diplomacy to a faith that outnumbers us over a thousand times over, but because the prophet can see things that we cannot see. It’s like, maybe, he has a Urim and Thummim in his mind similar to what Joseph Smith said when he no longer needed the seer stones. If I’m selling something I want to make sure the product I sell costs the same for each customer and price would be a banker’s method for easy computing. Each affected mosque received $50,000 totalling $100,000 which sounds reasonable. If you give your donations outside of the church you may be surprised to find out how they are really used. Who hasn’t heard on the news of another charity wrongfully pocketing huge margins or the whole thing? The church is one of the first to respond to a natural disaster with trucks, tires, etc. to move out in a moments notice. The food at the bishop’s storehouse is better than the food I eat at the store. While other charities, I’ve seen, have nearly expired cans of vegetables and ramen noodles.

The topic of church donations was brought up in this thread. The church does not disclose financial records. Maybe, for the same reason Trump does not disclose his tax returns. Everyone is a critic. It would cause too many biased accusations as well as make the church vulnerable. Why do you think some of the apostles were lawyers? When I walk into Deseret Industries there is a plaque on the wall that clearly states that the business is owned and operated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have been to many shopping malls around the United States and have yet to see this or clue whatsoever that the establishment is owned by the Church. If there are, so what? Shopping malls are going out of business because many are now opting to shop online. Deseret Industries is no shopping mall. It helps those who need a new job, gain confidence, training, and provide for themselves until they get their job.

Of course the Church has real estate investments. What do you think our churches and temples are built on? The church owns ranches, agriculture fields, etc. for self-sufficiency and provide for the poor. It also owns land in Missouri which we paid for and what was rightfully ours to begin with. The Church owns land for future purposes. For example, the farm lot where the Rome temple was constructed was purchased in the 90’s.

I believe the word ‘corporation’ is misunderstood. A corporation is defined as, “a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law.” We do not use The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints inc., llc., or .com. The website uses .org such as ChurchofJesusChrist.org because it is non profit organization. The corporation for public braodcasting is not the same as NBC. Likewise, the corporation of the presiding bishop is not the same as a commercial profit driven corporation.

Let’s say I was disciplined enough to save 10% of my income for my entire life and invest that correctly in the stock market, assuming that I would receive a dividend for that time. Would I want that momentary money for this blink of an eye life or have an eternal dividend that would last eternally? I think I would choose the latter. Just saying.

There are an estimated 15-25% of the Muslim population that are extemists. That's between 180 million to 300 million people . Picture the entire population of the United States as being nothing but extremist Muslims dedicated to destroying Western Civilization.

No we shouldn't paint them all with the same brush, but it's even more foolish to shrug off 300 million extremists. It's a real problem.

Also, why not give money to the individuals effected ? That would be loving your neighbor. Giving the Mosque the money? Why give money to another religion that preaches that Jesus is not the Messiah, the God of Israel?

I can't reason with people who find it acceptable to cover up pictures of Jesus for another religion to pray in peace .

I don't agree with the rationalization of the money spent on much of this real estate either .

[Mark]

The picture is when the lds church told the muslim community they could have their services at the lds church for as long as they needed. That act pretty much is the reason muslims have been told NOT to attack lds churches or knowingly attack lds members. I knew about the church allowing muslims to use their building long before this.

The reason the picture is covered is because muslims do not believe in idols, or graven images, or paintings or their God or Mohammad. This may extend to feeling respect for jesus?

And this is why the Church will eventually give in totally to the Gay Agenda. We are weak, and afraid of persecution, and we want to keep our stuff.

Amen, we are a dead religion. We won't survive as one for much longer. We don't have enough faith in our God.

And that is when Christ and His "arm of righteousness" (Isaiah 48 and 49), the Last Days Servant, will reveal themselves and call out those who are willing to give (consecrate) everything to build Zion.

If you both really believe that then why are you still members of a church that is supposedly dead and does not have the proper priesthood keys necessary for the building of Zion? That is assuming you still
are members of the church. You are saying the same thing every other break-off group has said. The TLC group of a few years ago said the same things. They took unsuspecting members with them on their merry go round. Snuffers remnant bunch said the same thing. How's that working out for them? Leading people away from the safety of the restored church has always resulted in a boatload of unhappiness for those who were naive enough to follow that deceitful call. Those apostate groups never prosper. They eventually wither away and die on the vine. What makes you both think things will be any different for you?

[Zathura]

And this is why the Church will eventually give in totally to the Gay Agenda. We are weak, and afraid of persecution, and we want to keep our stuff.

Amen, we are a dead religion. We won't survive as one for much longer. We don't have enough faith in our God.

And that is when Christ and His "arm of righteousness" (Isaiah 48 and 49), the Last Days Servant, will reveal themselves and call out those who are willing to give (consecrate) everything to build Zion.

If you both really believe that then why are you still members of a church that is supposedly dead and does not have the proper priesthood keys necessary for the building of Zion? That is assuming you still
are members of the church. You are saying the same thing every other break-off group has said. The TLC group of a few years ago said the same things. They took unsuspecting members with them on their merry go round. Snuffers remnant bunch said the same thing. How's that working out for them? Leading people away from the safety of the restored church has always resulted in a boatload of unhappiness for those who were naive enough to follow that deceitful call. Those apostate groups never prosper. They eventually wither away and die on the vine. What makes you both think things will be any different for you?

Again,

" why are you here? Just leave."

The head of this church never taught us to say such a thing, and neither did his mortal servants who serve in the church. President Nelson would surely rebuke you before he rebuked them .

These apostles visited various stakes, Ballard came to mine, and PLEADED with us, that we would not turn away those with questions and concerns but be patient with them, help them find the answer, don't turn them away, don't insult them, don't call them faithless .

Why do you only listen to the things you want to listen to? He was talking directly to you, people that push out members who have questions and concerns. You follow the Prophet as much as these guys you criticize do, you pick and choose as much as they do, they just don't pick and choose the same things as you.

[Mark]

Amen, we are a dead religion. We won't survive as one for much longer. We don't have enough faith in our God.

And that is when Christ and His "arm of righteousness" (Isaiah 48 and 49), the Last Days Servant, will reveal themselves and call out those who are willing to give (consecrate) everything to build Zion.

If you both really believe that then why are you still members of a church that is supposedly dead and does not have the proper priesthood keys necessary for the building of Zion? That is assuming you still
are members of the church. You are saying the same thing every other break-off group has said. The TLC group of a few years ago said the same things. They took unsuspecting members with them on their merry go round. Snuffers remnant bunch said the same thing. How's that working out for them? Leading people away from the safety of the restored church has always resulted in a boatload of unhappiness for those who were naive enough to follow that deceitful call. Those apostate groups never prosper. They eventually wither away and die on the vine. What makes you both think things will be any different for you?

Again,

" why are you here? Just leave."

The head of this church never taught us to say such a thing, and neither did his mortal servants who serve in the church. President Nelson would surely rebuke you before he rebuked them .

These apostles visited various stakes, Ballard came to mine, and PLEADED with us, that we would not turn away those with questions and concerns but be patient with them, help them find the answer, don't turn them away, don't insult them, don't call them faithless .

Why do you only listen to the things you want to listen to? He was talking directly to you, people that push out members who have questions and concerns. You follow the Prophet as much as these guys you criticize do, you pick and choose as much as they do, they just don't pick and choose the same things as you.

You just dont get it. Some people come on these boards with the intent of destroying the faith and testimony of those who are unsuspecting and trusting. I posted something from Elder Ballard on another topic. He said:

"As Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our duty to be watchmen on the tower, warning Church members to beware of false prophets and false teachers who lie in wait to ensnare and destroy faith and testimony. Today we warn you that there are false prophets and false teachers arising; and if we are not careful, even those who are among the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fall victim to their deception."

Now tell me what is wrong with questioning those who constantly belittle and berate the church and its leadership on a board comprising mostly of LDS oriented people? Is that off limits to question a persons sincerity when they have repeatedly talked smack against the church time and again calling it apostate or "dead" or uninspired or ? and calling its leaders false prophets or King Noahs or greedy corporate slim balls are whatever? What if someone came into your home and began berating your faith in an attempt to convince your family that you believed in a bunch of hogwash. Would you just mildly stand there and say nothing as they tried to pursuade your children to forsake that faith and make excuses for them? You need to wake up brother. There are many who come on this board trying to destroy faith. They are not shy about their feelings. What is wrong with calling them out on their intent?

[Zathura]

And that is when Christ and His "arm of righteousness" (Isaiah 48 and 49), the Last Days Servant, will reveal themselves and call out those who are willing to give (consecrate) everything to build Zion.

If you both really believe that then why are you still members of a church that is supposedly dead and does not have the proper priesthood keys necessary for the building of Zion? That is assuming you still
are members of the church. You are saying the same thing every other break-off group has said. The TLC group of a few years ago said the same things. They took unsuspecting members with them on their merry go round. Snuffers remnant bunch said the same thing. How's that working out for them? Leading people away from the safety of the restored church has always resulted in a boatload of unhappiness for those who were naive enough to follow that deceitful call. Those apostate groups never prosper. They eventually wither away and die on the vine. What makes you both think things will be any different for you?

Again,

" why are you here? Just leave."

The head of this church never taught us to say such a thing, and neither did his mortal servants who serve in the church. President Nelson would surely rebuke you before he rebuked them .

These apostles visited various stakes, Ballard came to mine, and PLEADED with us, that we would not turn away those with questions and concerns but be patient with them, help them find the answer, don't turn them away, don't insult them, don't call them faithless .

Why do you only listen to the things you want to listen to? He was talking directly to you, people that push out members who have questions and concerns. You follow the Prophet as much as these guys you criticize do, you pick and choose as much as they do, they just don't pick and choose the same things as you.

You just dont get it. Some people come on these boards with the intent of destroying the faith and testimony of those who are unsuspecting and trusting. I posted something from Elder Ballard on another topic. He said:

"As Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our duty to be watchmen on the tower, warning Church members to beware of false prophets and false teachers who lie in wait to ensnare and destroy faith and testimony. Today we warn you that there are false prophets and false teachers arising; and if we are not careful, even those who are among the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fall victim to their deception."

Now tell me what is wrong with questioning those who constantly belittle and berate the church and its leadership on a board comprising mostly of LDS oriented people? Is that off limits to question a persons sincerity when they have repeatedly talked smack against the church time and again calling it apostate or "dead" or uninspired or ? and calling its leaders false prophets or King Noahs or greedy corporate slim balls are whatever? What if someone came into your home and began berating your faith in an attempt to convince your family that you believed in a bunch of hogwash. Would you just mildly stand there and say nothing as they tried to pursuade your children to forsake that faith and make excuses for them? You need to wake up brother. There are many who come on this board trying to destroy faith. They are not shy about their feelings. What is wrong with calling them out on their intent?

I do get it. People like Thomas did it, various Christians from other sects, I AM. Not Lizzy, she is a true disciple of Christ. Not deznatdefender, he is a true disciple of Christ. You don't know their intent, assumptions ruin so many relationships. Lizzy and DezNat want the church to succeed as you do, as much as I do

I don't see anything wrong either questioning them, having a reasonable discussion. That's not what's happening most of the time. Both sides talk past each other, and more often than not when one side is NOT talking past the other, the side bring stubborn is the side that's overzealous in defending the church and the brethren to the point that they cause more damage than all the Denver Snuffer types ever did to the church combined . The "why are you here just leave" attitude does far more to push people away from Christ than the subtle and sneaky doctrines by Snuffer types. The vast majority of members don't care to go deep onto doctrine, they really won't care or notice the nuances of Denver Snuffers teachings , and others like them. They will notice someone trying to push them out for not beleiving exactly as they do though.

[Mark]

If you both really believe that then why are you still members of a church that is supposedly dead and does not have the proper priesthood keys necessary for the building of Zion? That is assuming you still
are members of the church. You are saying the same thing every other break-off group has said. The TLC group of a few years ago said the same things. They took unsuspecting members with them on their merry go round. Snuffers remnant bunch said the same thing. How's that working out for them? Leading people away from the safety of the restored church has always resulted in a boatload of unhappiness for those who were naive enough to follow that deceitful call. Those apostate groups never prosper. They eventually wither away and die on the vine. What makes you both think things will be any different for you?

Again,

" why are you here? Just leave."

The head of this church never taught us to say such a thing, and neither did his mortal servants who serve in the church. President Nelson would surely rebuke you before he rebuked them .

These apostles visited various stakes, Ballard came to mine, and PLEADED with us, that we would not turn away those with questions and concerns but be patient with them, help them find the answer, don't turn them away, don't insult them, don't call them faithless .

Why do you only listen to the things you want to listen to? He was talking directly to you, people that push out members who have questions and concerns. You follow the Prophet as much as these guys you criticize do, you pick and choose as much as they do, they just don't pick and choose the same things as you.

You just dont get it. Some people come on these boards with the intent of destroying the faith and testimony of those who are unsuspecting and trusting. I posted something from Elder Ballard on another topic. He said:

"As Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our duty to be watchmen on the tower, warning Church members to beware of false prophets and false teachers who lie in wait to ensnare and destroy faith and testimony. Today we warn you that there are false prophets and false teachers arising; and if we are not careful, even those who are among the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fall victim to their deception."

Now tell me what is wrong with questioning those who constantly belittle and berate the church and its leadership on a board comprising mostly of LDS oriented people? Is that off limits to question a persons sincerity when they have repeatedly talked smack against the church time and again calling it apostate or "dead" or uninspired or ? and calling its leaders false prophets or King Noahs or greedy corporate slim balls are whatever? What if someone came into your home and began berating your faith in an attempt to convince your family that you believed in a bunch of hogwash. Would you just mildly stand there and say nothing as they tried to pursuade your children to forsake that faith and make excuses for them? You need to wake up brother. There are many who come on this board trying to destroy faith. They are not shy about their feelings. What is wrong with calling them out on their intent?

I do get it. People like Thomas did it, various Christians from other sects, I AM. Not Lizzy, she is a true disciple of Christ. Not deznatdefender, he is a true disciple of Christ. You don't know their intent, assumptions ruin so many relationships. Lizzy and DezNat want the church to succeed as you do, as much as I do

I don't see anything wrong either questioning them, having a reasonable discussion. That's not what's happening most of the time. Both sides talk past each other, and more often than not when one side is NOT talking past the other, the side bring stubborn is the side that's overzealous in defending the church and the brethren to the point that they cause more damage than all the Denver Snuffer types ever did to the church combined . The "why are you here just leave" attitude does far more to push people away from Christ than the subtle and sneaky doctrines by Snuffer types. The vast majority of members don't care to go deep onto doctrine, they really won't care or notice the nuances of Denver Snuffers teachings , and others like them. They will notice someone trying to push them out for not beleiving exactly as they do though.

You most likely don't know any of the people on this board personally. How the heck do you know their intentions or their desires? I can only go by what people say. If they say the church is dead and coming apart at the seams with no real faith from its members or real revelation happening from on high and that the current sustained leadership will one day be replaced by a true servant of the Lord ( not the current crop of imposters serving in its offices which is implied ) who will work outside of the hierarchy to bring about Zion what am I supposed to think?

These kinds of thoughts are apostate in nature and lead to further accusations that the church has gone astray and is no longer recognized by the Lord in its 4 fold mission. That's how breakoffs start and before you know it the Harmstons and the Snuffers Surface to gain a following and families are ripped apart by these charlatans who love the adulation of those who disaffect themselves from the church. Think it doesn't happen? I see it happening over and over again. Spreading the flames of discontent and disallusionment in the current church leads people away from the safety of the restored church with its proper Priesthood keys and ordinances necessary for salvation. I want no part of that fools game and will speak against it every time.

[Fiannan]

You just dont get it. Some people come on these boards with the intent of destroying the faith and testimony of those who are unsuspecting and trusting.

You are right. There are some people here who I am sure are anti-Mormons posing as Mormons just to tear apart the faith. Recently some anti-Mormons created ads that looked Mormon but were intended as social media bait. False flags take place outside of covert government operations. Then there are the sects that say that the Church no longer is acting like Jesus would have them act. You know, why don't we make every chapel a homeless shelter sorts of statements.

If people have a gripe about a policy here or there that is not something that is bad. Saying you don't think the picture of Jesus in chapels where meetings with Muslims takes place should be covered is fine, and I really griped about the now-terminated policy of banning children of gay parents from getting baptized. However, I get suspicious of posters who always gripe about everything from leaders of the Church. Many times their murmurings are more like shouts.

[Joel]

Donations for these people would probably help

https://twitter.com/GrantB911/status/12 ... 9019858946

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/12 ... rY1XdU.mp4


Active Shooter Shot And Killed By Armed Citizen Inside Texas Church; 2 Dead and 1 Injured

Video Show Moments Before And After West Freeway Church of Christ Shooting

[hedgehog]

In nature submission is a sign of weakness. It is only our perversion of Christs teachings coupled with virtue signalling that have convinced us that submission is a sign of greatness. Those from the third world view it naturally as a sign of our weakness. In reality its a sign of luxury.

https://quillette.com/2019/11/16/thorst ... us-update/


In the past, people displayed their membership of the upper class with their material accoutrements. But today, luxury goods are more affordable than before. And people are less likely to receive validation for the material items they display. This is a problem for the affluent, who still want to broadcast their high social position. But they have come up with a clever solution. The affluent have decoupled social status from goods, and re-attached it to beliefs.

[Aprhys]

Well, at least he is donating something rather than siting on a pile of money.

[Connie561]

I live in a Stake where we hold combined Stake Conference with a Muslim and a Baptist church on Saturday evening. We have a combined dinner before then we have the conference which is led by our Stake President. One leader from each of the other churches speaks on an assigned topic. The different churches also will sing which is outstanding to hear. The spirit is really strong in the meeting, too.

I admit that in the beginning I was uncomfortable with the idea of a combined meeting. Once I went, I knew it was inspired. It has been going on a few years and I am still alive and well. I am fine with the church donating money to victims of terrorism. I don't care what religion they belong, if they need help we need to behave like the Good Samaritan as taught by Jesus Christ. Our church can not establish Zion if we have a them versus us mentality.

[Michelle]

I live in a Stake where we hold combined Stake Conference with a Muslim and a Baptist church on Saturday evening. We have a combined dinner before then we have the conference which is led by our Stake President. One leader from each of the other churches speaks on an assigned topic. The different churches also will sing which is outstanding to hear. The spirit is really strong in the meeting, too.

I admit that in the beginning I was uncomfortable with the idea of a combined meeting. Once I went, I knew it was inspired. It has been going on a few years and I am still alive and well. I am fine with the church donating money to victims of terrorism. I don't care what religion they belong, if they need help we need to behave like the Good Samaritan as taught by Jesus Christ. Our church can not establish Zion if we have a them versus us mentality.

Amen. In Indiana we had "ward parties" with the Amish. They brought a cooked pig and gave wagon rides. LDS members who new how to speak German would sing hymns with them. The kids would play games together and no one was bothered by the blessings. I expect to see those friends in Zion.

All who will not take up arms against their neighbors will be forced to flee to Zion, whether or not they are baptized members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I believe that many will be surprised to find Christians, Jews, Muslims and a variety of other people at Zion together.

I predict (tongue in cheek) that about half of the members on record will not make it to Zion. I think I heard a parable about it somewhere.

[hedgehog]

I live in a Stake where we hold combined Stake Conference with a Muslim and a Baptist church on Saturday evening. We have a combined dinner before then we have the conference which is led by our Stake President. One leader from each of the other churches speaks on an assigned topic. The different churches also will sing which is outstanding to hear. The spirit is really strong in the meeting, too.

I admit that in the beginning I was uncomfortable with the idea of a combined meeting. Once I went, I knew it was inspired. It has been going on a few years and I am still alive and well. I am fine with the church donating money to victims of terrorism. I don't care what religion they belong, if they need help we need to behave like the Good Samaritan as taught by Jesus Christ. Our church can not establish Zion if we have a them versus us mentality.

Amen. In Indiana we had "ward parties" with the Amish. They brought a cooked pig and gave wagon rides. LDS members who new how to speak German would sing hymns with them. The kids would play games together and no one was bothered by the blessings. I expect to see those friends in Zion.

All who will not take up arms against their neighbors will be forced to flee to Zion, whether or not they are baptized members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I believe that many will be surprised to find Christians, Jews, Muslims and a variety of other people at Zion together.

I predict (tongue in cheek) that about half of the members on record will not make it to Zion. I think I heard a parable about it somewhere.

Combined ward parties are good and normal. Guest speakers and performers at conferences also not a problem.

In their building we go to them on their terms if they are acceptable to us. Just as they should come to our buildings on our terms not on theirs. We clearly need lessons on the perils of cultural supremacy and cultural submission.

Any happily married person can tell you there is a wide gulf between mutual respect of roles and nature's blind dominance and submission.

Unfortunately the subversive elements within American institutions have been conditioning us to be allergic to supremacy and crave submission. Mutual respect is not possible with such demoralized people who will only be steamrolled by history.

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Any time people complain about Trump just remember we could have had some mentally unstable woman like Jacinda Ardern as our leader.

It's hard to think of a more incompetent and overly emotional reactionary person than her as a leader of a nation. This is a woman that left the LDS Church because she bought into the gay agenda crap and Nelson is praising her as some great leader? What a sad &#%!@? nation, almost as bad a Sweden. By what definition is New Zealand a "great nation"? More and more I'm tiring of Nelson's pandering to Globalist idiots.

[Thinker]

Did we donate to the Jewish synagogues?

Or to all the Christian churches that have been burned to the ground by Muslims, after they butchered all the Christians in and around them? This isn't just past-tense, as it's still happening on a regular, current basis. I'd love to read about the donations our Church has made to the families of the murdered Christians, and to the congregations (or what's left of them) of the burned out Christians churches, if anyone can provide a link.

Wrong boat. They are competitors against the big ship.