LDS Freedom Forum

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:19 am

eddie wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:10 am

eddie wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:00 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 7:18 am

"Second class citizens". What a bizarre statement.

There is nothing second class about being a wife and mother, taken care of, for life, of every need and desire by her husband. She doesn't have to worry about working, or wonder how she'll pay her mortgage. She will have her healthcare, her clothing, food, vacations, and any other expense paid for. She is free to pursue her hobbies and desires at home while her husband provides. Her husband will take the lead of the home, take responsibility of fixing and maintaining the home. Her husband, and other men will take the officiating responsibilities in the church. She just has to show up and everything will be provided.

All she has to do is care for the young children (until they leave the home), cook a few meals a week and keep things clean, and comfort her husband. Elder Richard G. Scott
“Beware of the subtle ways Satan employs to take you from the plan of God [2 Nephi 9:13] and true happiness. One of Satan’s most effective approaches is to demean the role of wife and mother in the home. That's it. In any culture or society I know of, this is the lifestyle of a Queen, not a second class citizen.

I have to wonder how we got here, to believe such a life of luxury and leisure is considered a burden and "second class". I would die to have such a role - to be taken care of like that. An old saying of my Mother's was, " You take the cake." " A lifestyle of luxury and leisure?" Where do you get off saying things like this? Get some help! This is a mass brainwashing by the film and news media the world has never seen before.

Every westernized nation today has a declining birth rate because of this. Our countries are LITERALLY dying. Japan is the worst example. They are losing a NET 8 million citizens every decade because their women aren't having children. By 2180, nobody will be left on the island at all. But this doesn't tell the whole story, because you cannot have a functioning society without young people working and innovating for the elderly. Collapse will come far, far sooner than that. The US, western Europe, and Australia are not far behind.

Whether women want to or not, we need more mothers for our societies to surivive. There is no technological substitute for the womb, for mothers. Stop hating on this God-given role. Stop attacking it. This is how God designed men and women. This is the way he prescribed for our happiness and eternal glory.

I make well over six figures in my household. My stay-at-home wife spends 99% of it on whatever she wants, whenever she wants. All she has to do is help me clean the house every couple days, cook a hot meal on Sundays, and turn the TV on for our pre-school daughter. The rest of the day she can lie in bed, spend my money on Amazon, or shop at Target.

You don't call that a life of luxury? What planet are you living on? "second class citizen". Pffft. To think some people want to take that lifestyle away from women. That's mysoginy if I ever saw it.

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:07 am Mike Pence just gave a commencement speech at Liberty University where he said the following:

"You know, throughout most of American history, it’s been pretty easy to call yourself Christian. It didn’t even occur to people that you might be shunned or ridiculed for defending the teachings of the Bible.

But things are different now. Some of the loudest voices for tolerance today have little tolerance for traditional Christian beliefs. So as you go about your daily life, just be ready. Because you’re going to be asked not just to tolerate things that violate your faith; you’re going to be asked to endorse them. You’re going to be asked to bow down to the idols of the popular culture."

This is exactly what many of you are doing and asking me to do: bow down to your false idols and deny the Bible. That this is happening on an LDS forum is even more striking, and certainly indicitive of where the church is today.

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:49 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:12 amAnd maybe it was just that... a parable between Christ and His church and not actually between a man and wife. Also just as you’ve said- old laws were done away with the New Testament. So you once again you need to stop cherry picking.

Wrong. It’s just as much a New Testament idea and in the Endowment (before they changed it).

I can’t believe someone would call this cherry picking. Do you even read the scriptures?

And because they changed it, they will be damned as D&C 132:4 describes.

passionflower wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 11:16 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:19 am

eddie wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:10 am

eddie wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:00 am

I make well over six figures in my household. My stay-at-home wife spends 99% of it on whatever she wants, whenever she wants. All she has to do is help me clean the house every couple days, cook a hot meal on Sundays, and turn the TV on for our pre-school daughter. The rest of the day she can lie in bed, spend my money on Amazon, or shop at Target.

You don't call that a life of luxury? What planet are you living on? "second class citizen". Pffft. To think some people want to take that lifestyle away from women. That's mysoginy if I ever saw it.

It is true that the working career woman is the single largest contributing factor in declining birthrates. What you are saying about this as heading us for catastrophic social and economic problems is for real and anyone denying this has his head in the sand, and on purpose.

But are you actually serious about your wife here and her useless day to day activities? If so, you are also headed for your own personal catastrophe and it will happen long before demographic winter does. Your wife is not submitting to righteous principles, you are not leading your home in that direction, and you all are just a couple of laws unto yourselves if what you describe is what is really going on in your home.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 1:19 pm

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:49 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:12 amAnd maybe it was just that... a parable between Christ and His church and not actually between a man and wife. Also just as you’ve said- old laws were done away with the New Testament. So you once again you need to stop cherry picking.

Wrong. It’s just as much a New Testament idea and in the Endowment (before they changed it).

I can’t believe someone would call this cherry picking. Do you even read the scriptures?

And because they changed it, they will be damned as D&C 132:4 describes.

I don’t think you should be quoting Doctrine and Covenants because surely you don’t believe in Jospeh Smith. You do know that he allowed Emma to “address the congregation” many times. Clearly he must not believe the Bible to be the word of God then?!

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:12 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:49 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:46 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:12 amAnd maybe it was just that... a parable between Christ and His church and not actually between a man and wife. Also just as you’ve said- old laws were done away with the New Testament. So you once again you need to stop cherry picking.

Wrong. It’s just as much a New Testament idea and in the Endowment (before they changed it).

I can’t believe someone would call this cherry picking. Do you even read the scriptures?

And because they changed it, they will be damned as D&C 132:4 describes.

That's cute. For someone so educated and so sure that the Church is in apostasy , you quote D&C 132? Of all sections? You point out all these flaws in the church and yet take Section 132 as scripture? My friend, you REALLY need to do more research. I guess I'm helping you in your quest now.

Here's a hint *You can add Section 132 to the thread you created as proof of apostasy*

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:26 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:34 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:26 amI mean you’re one of those that agreed with benaishtart when he says that raped women will forever be unclean, so I don’t know why I bother responding to you.

I don’t recall saying this. And while I don’t think they will be “forever unclean”, I do think their were reasons why Tamara daughter of David was so distraught about her brother Amnon not marrying her after violating her. She herself says it was even worse than the rape itself.

His posts are far from sensible. He cherry picks scriptures , sticks to his own little interpretation and refuses to acknowledge a single rebuttal.

Not really familiar with his posts besides the few that I’ve read here. Just pointing out that I have yet to see you or anyone here show how his post I called “sensible” to be incorrect, or cherry picking.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51539

Enjoy his OP to your hearts content.

If you take the time to go through the thread, you'll see plenty of rebuttals. The legitimate rebuttals he ignored, and forever ignore. The rebuttals that trigger him, he responds to with this sass that you see here.

"You have a sick mind dude, try again" or
"You hate God's word, I get it, are you going to stop whining" or

You haven't seen "Me or anyone show hos his post is cherry picking" because there's no point anymore. If you go through any replies to him, he isn't willing to have a legitimate discussion. His name is "I wont back down". He won't give any ground, he isn't here to discuss. He's here to tell you how it is over and over and over and over until he leaves like everyone else who comes here to do that.

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:26 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:34 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:26 amI mean you’re one of those that agreed with benaishtart when he says that raped women will forever be unclean, so I don’t know why I bother responding to you.

I don’t recall saying this. And while I don’t think they will be “forever unclean”, I do think their were reasons why Tamara daughter of David was so distraught about her brother Amnon not marrying her after violating her. She herself says it was even worse than the rape itself.

His posts are far from sensible. He cherry picks scriptures , sticks to his own little interpretation and refuses to acknowledge a single rebuttal.

Not really familiar with his posts besides the few that I’ve read here. Just pointing out that I have yet to see you or anyone here show how his post I called “sensible” to be incorrect, or cherry picking.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51539

Enjoy his OP to your hearts content.

If you take the time to go through the thread, you'll see plenty of rebuttals. The legitimate rebuttals he ignored, and forever ignore. The rebuttals that trigger him, he responds to with this sass that you see here.

"You have a sick mind dude, try again" or
"You hate God's word, I get it, are you going to stop whining" or

You haven't seen "Me or anyone show hos his post is cherry picking" because there's no point anymore. If you go through any replies to him, he isn't willing to have a legitimate discussion. His name is "I wont back down". He won't give any ground, he isn't here to discuss. He's here to tell you how it is over and over and over and over until he leaves like everyone else who comes here to do that.

Oh don't worry about me leaving, I usually get banned long before I decide to quit. People get tired of losing debates with me and decide to just shut me up. They enjoy their lies too much.

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:26 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:34 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:26 amI mean you’re one of those that agreed with benaishtart when he says that raped women will forever be unclean, so I don’t know why I bother responding to you.

I don’t recall saying this. And while I don’t think they will be “forever unclean”, I do think their were reasons why Tamara daughter of David was so distraught about her brother Amnon not marrying her after violating her. She herself says it was even worse than the rape itself.

His posts are far from sensible. He cherry picks scriptures , sticks to his own little interpretation and refuses to acknowledge a single rebuttal.

Not really familiar with his posts besides the few that I’ve read here. Just pointing out that I have yet to see you or anyone here show how his post I called “sensible” to be incorrect, or cherry picking.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51539

Enjoy his OP to your hearts content.

If you take the time to go through the thread, you'll see plenty of rebuttals. The legitimate rebuttals he ignored, and forever ignore. The rebuttals that trigger him, he responds to with this sass that you see here.

"You have a sick mind dude, try again" or
"You hate God's word, I get it, are you going to stop whining" or

You haven't seen "Me or anyone show hos his post is cherry picking" because there's no point anymore. If you go through any replies to him, he isn't willing to have a legitimate discussion. His name is "I wont back down". He won't give any ground, he isn't here to discuss. He's here to tell you how it is over and over and over and over until he leaves like everyone else who comes here to do that.

Oh don't worry about me leaving, I usually get banned long before I decide to quit. People get tired of losing debates with me and decide to just shut me up. They enjoy their lies too much.

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 3:16 pm

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:26 am

abijah wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 9:34 am

I don’t recall saying this. And while I don’t think they will be “forever unclean”, I do think their were reasons why Tamara daughter of David was so distraught about her brother Amnon not marrying her after violating her. She herself says it was even worse than the rape itself.



Not really familiar with his posts besides the few that I’ve read here. Just pointing out that I have yet to see you or anyone here show how his post I called “sensible” to be incorrect, or cherry picking.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51539

Enjoy his OP to your hearts content.

If you take the time to go through the thread, you'll see plenty of rebuttals. The legitimate rebuttals he ignored, and forever ignore. The rebuttals that trigger him, he responds to with this sass that you see here.

"You have a sick mind dude, try again" or
"You hate God's word, I get it, are you going to stop whining" or

You haven't seen "Me or anyone show hos his post is cherry picking" because there's no point anymore. If you go through any replies to him, he isn't willing to have a legitimate discussion. His name is "I wont back down". He won't give any ground, he isn't here to discuss. He's here to tell you how it is over and over and over and over until he leaves like everyone else who comes here to do that.

Oh don't worry about me leaving, I usually get banned long before I decide to quit. People get tired of losing debates with me and decide to just shut me up. They enjoy their lies too much.

Debate? That would indicate an intelligent back and forth conversation. People get tired of talking to a brick wall.

justme wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 3:22 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 3:16 pm

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 10:26 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51539

Enjoy his OP to your hearts content.

If you take the time to go through the thread, you'll see plenty of rebuttals. The legitimate rebuttals he ignored, and forever ignore. The rebuttals that trigger him, he responds to with this sass that you see here.

"You have a sick mind dude, try again" or
"You hate God's word, I get it, are you going to stop whining" or

You haven't seen "Me or anyone show hos his post is cherry picking" because there's no point anymore. If you go through any replies to him, he isn't willing to have a legitimate discussion. His name is "I wont back down". He won't give any ground, he isn't here to discuss. He's here to tell you how it is over and over and over and over until he leaves like everyone else who comes here to do that.

Oh don't worry about me leaving, I usually get banned long before I decide to quit. People get tired of losing debates with me and decide to just shut me up. They enjoy their lies too much.

Debate? That would indicate an intelligent back and forth conversation. People get tired of talking to a brick wall.

Did he just admit to "usually get banned". Anyone know who this poster has been before?

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 1:51 pm

passionflower wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 11:16 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:19 am

eddie wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:10 am

I make well over six figures in my household. My stay-at-home wife spends 99% of it on whatever she wants, whenever she wants. All she has to do is help me clean the house every couple days, cook a hot meal on Sundays, and turn the TV on for our pre-school daughter. The rest of the day she can lie in bed, spend my money on Amazon, or shop at Target.

You don't call that a life of luxury? What planet are you living on? "second class citizen". Pffft. To think some people want to take that lifestyle away from women. That's mysoginy if I ever saw it.

It is true that the working career woman is the single largest contributing factor in declining birthrates. What you are saying about this as heading us for catastrophic social and economic problems is for real and anyone denying this has his head in the sand, and on purpose.

But are you actually serious about your wife here and her useless day to day activities? If so, you are also headed for your own personal catastrophe and it will happen long before demographic winter does. Your wife is not submitting to righteous principles, you are not leading your home in that direction, and you all are just a couple of laws unto yourselves if what you describe is what is really going on in your home.

She does much more than that, she's a great nurterer for our children. And, yes, she does spend most of the money I make because she's been willing to take that responsibility. She writes the checks to pay our bills because that's how I've delegated the responsibility. I'm just trying to illustrate how the role of a wife is nothing like a "second class citizen" as some have called it. She will never have to worry about getting a job, fixing the car, or mowing the lawn while I'm there to take care of her. That's female liberation to me.

But in reality, in today's gynocentric system, she could technically get away with living that kind of lifestyle and there would be nothing I could do about it. If a woman wants to walk out of a marriage at any time, and for any reason, she can and she would likely get custody of the children, and many years of child support, and alimony.

I bring up authority as a problem in our society today. Men don't have any authority backed up by the laws. We need a society that also believes in Biblical tradition to fix this problem. I always say that society sees women as human beings and men as human doings. Test this yourself; ask your wife or girlfriend how she feels about you. Her response will be something like, "You're a great provider, you take us places, you work hard, etc". She loves you for the things you do, not for what you are. That's because women don't love like men do. Men are sacrificial.

When Paul says that women should submit (obey) to their husbands, and men should love their wives, he means that literally because that's how we're designed. Women are hypergamous. The vast majority of divorces are initiated by college educated women. This is because they instinctually want a man who they feel is socially above them. Now that women are, by far, the biggest college graduates, how would you expect that to influence families? Not good.

Women shouldn't be going to college or focusing on careers, at least during their younger years. They should be focusing on marriage and family as early as possible. Peter says they will be "saved in childbearing" not in getting college degrees.

passionflower wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 1:51 pm

passionflower wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 11:16 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 14th, 2019, 8:19 am

I make well over six figures in my household. My stay-at-home wife spends 99% of it on whatever she wants, whenever she wants. All she has to do is help me clean the house every couple days, cook a hot meal on Sundays, and turn the TV on for our pre-school daughter. The rest of the day she can lie in bed, spend my money on Amazon, or shop at Target.

You don't call that a life of luxury? What planet are you living on? "second class citizen". Pffft. To think some people want to take that lifestyle away from women. That's mysoginy if I ever saw it.

It is true that the working career woman is the single largest contributing factor in declining birthrates. What you are saying about this as heading us for catastrophic social and economic problems is for real and anyone denying this has his head in the sand, and on purpose.

But are you actually serious about your wife here and her useless day to day activities? If so, you are also headed for your own personal catastrophe and it will happen long before demographic winter does. Your wife is not submitting to righteous principles, you are not leading your home in that direction, and you all are just a couple of laws unto yourselves if what you describe is what is really going on in your home.

She does much more than that, she's a great nurterer for our children. And, yes, she does spend most of the money I make because she's been willing to take that responsibility. She writes the checks to pay our bills because that's how I've delegated the responsibility. I'm just trying to illustrate how the role of a wife is nothing like a "second class citizen" as some have called it. She will never have to worry about getting a job, fixing the car, or mowing the lawn while I'm there to take care of her. That's female liberation to me.

But in reality, in today's gynocentric system, she could technically get away with living that kind of lifestyle and there would be nothing I could do about it. If a woman wants to walk out of a marriage at any time, and for any reason, she can and she would likely get custody of the children, and many years of child support, and alimony.

I bring up authority as a problem in our society today. Men don't have any authority backed up by the laws. We need a society that also believes in Biblical tradition to fix this problem. I always say that society sees women as human beings and men as human doings. Test this yourself; ask your wife or girlfriend how she feels about you. Her response will be something like, "You're a great provider, you take us places, you work hard, etc". She loves you for the things you do, not for what you are. That's because women don't love like men do. Men are sacrificial.

When Paul says that women should submit (obey) to their husbands, and men should love their wives, he means that literally because that's how we're designed. Women are hypergamous. The vast majority of divorces are initiated by college educated women. This is because they instinctually want a man who they feel is socially above them. Now that women are, by far, the biggest college graduates, how would you expect that to influence families? Not good.

Women shouldn't be going to college or focusing on careers, at least during their younger years. They should be focusing on marriage and family as early as possible. Peter says they will be "saved in childbearing" not in getting college degrees.

Whew! Thanks very much for clarifying and making everything more consistent. Wow. What a relief I apologize for how mistaken I was for what you seemed to say. You are obviously proud of your wife. Wonderful.

What you said about human beings and human doings was interesting. I never thought of it that way.

And you don't have to just go to Paul on the subject of men being the head of the home. Think of the Christmas story. Before Mary is fully the wife of Joseph, she has an angelic visit and other great HG experiences on her own. But as soon as Joseph comes into the picture all revelation concerning he and Mary and the child Jesus comes to Joseph and Joseph alone.

Mary, on the other hand : "treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart".

I agree that the push to get women into higher education is becoming downright perverse and it is upsetting society in more ways than one. It is a class status thing, IWBD, and holds class status meaning. On the other hand It is highly possible for a young woman to have a great deal of education by the time she is 16, without even going to college at all, if it was done right. And they don't have to start when they are three years old in a preschool, either.