LDS Freedom Forum

Help me understand the atonement better. If a man kills or does adultery but is forgiven, Is it fair that they get the same reward in heaven as someone who didn't do such things?
Is it fair though to be eternally restricted or some reward in heaven isn't given to you because of a bad mistake? (Though killing isn't considered a mistake in my opinion)

I think it's unfair and fair all at the same time that if someone did a sin I didnt do that they dont get a reward that I get.
But I also feel like it's unfair because I have sinned out of pain in my life and others haven't chosen to do what I did. And I feel like they'll get a reward I will never get because of it.

Help me understand mercy, justice and eternal rewards and hope.

Oh gosh, this is why we don’t do the judging Emily, every circumstance is different. The Lord says when you repent, “ I remember it no more.” He knows what is in your heart.

XEmilyX wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 1:18 pm Help me understand the atonement better. If a man kills or does adultery but is forgiven, Is it fair that they get the same reward in heaven as someone who didn't do such things?
Is it fair though to be eternally restricted or some reward in heaven isn't given to you because of a bad mistake? (Though killing isn't considered a mistake in my opinion)

I think it's unfair and fair all at the same time that if someone did a sin I didnt do that they dont get a reward that I get.
But I also feel like it's unfair because I have sinned out of pain in my life and others haven't chosen to do what I did. And I feel like they'll get a reward I will never get because of it.

Help me understand mercy, justice and eternal rewards and hope.

I wrote about this very subject on my blog: https://latterdaylamanite.com/2019/04/1 ... od-father/

In a nutshell:

It was necessary for Him to take upon Himself flesh, a son of man (Mark 10:45) with the capacity to die. And it was necessary for Him to die unjustly so that He could reclaim His life and all who believe in Him, repenting continually, drawing near to Him, becoming His children through His grace and mercy.

To address the fairness issue, you may see some sins as more grievous than others, but to God, all sin unacceptable. You think it would be unfair for God to forgive Hitler of committing mass murder and allowing him to be saved with you whose sins are perhaps very minor by contrast. But it's not about how grievous your sins are; it's about how gracious God is to forgive all who repent. And by saying that you deserve a greater reward than Hitler is to judge him yourself. But only God can rightly and righteously judge. He paid the price for Hitler's sins as well as yours and mine. We tend to assign values to sins because we are fallen and foolish. God forgives all freely who come unto Him. We are all living according to different degrees of light. So if Hitler's life was filled with no light, and you are filled with much more light, then who's sin is greater that sins against greater light? The wages of sin is death and we are all guilty and condemned to suffer unless we turn to Christ who loves all unconditionally. Who can say that He loves one of us more than the other just because he or she sins more. King David sinned grievously, but God still loved him and considered David's heart after His own.

1 Samuel 13:14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the Lord hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the Lord hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the Lord commanded thee...

If you believe D&C 132, we read that the Lord will not leave him in hell. In the final analysis, we ought to simply realize that with God, nothing is impossible. Though your sins be as scarlet, He will make you white as wool.

Matthew 20:
1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

And what shall be the reward?
Is there a difference in reward for differences in the length of service?
Is there a difference in reward for differences in abilities?

Doctrine and Covenants 58:
42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.
43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

And what shall be the penalty?

Matthew 5:
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Is God our adversary?

If God be for us, then who is it that is against us?

XEmilyX wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 1:18 pm Help me understand the atonement better. If a man kills or does adultery but is forgiven, Is it fair that they get the same reward in heaven as someone who didn't do such things?
Is it fair though to be eternally restricted or some reward in heaven isn't given to you because of a bad mistake? (Though killing isn't considered a mistake in my opinion)

I think it's unfair and fair all at the same time that if someone did a sin I didnt do that they dont get a reward that I get.
But I also feel like it's unfair because I have sinned out of pain in my life and others haven't chosen to do what I did. And I feel like they'll get a reward I will never get because of it.

Help me understand mercy, justice and eternal rewards and hope.

Emily, it is unfair. The faithful son felt it was very unfair when the prodigal son returned and a feast was thrown even though he had never been celebrated. The parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matt 20:1-16) was already discussed. The people who worked all twelve hours of the day were paid the same as the people hired to just work one hour. We are taught that people can go through their entire mortal lives without ever keeping the commandments, accept the gospel and vicarious ordinances in the spirit world, and go to the Celestial Kingdom. And that people can die before age eight, never have to endure and suffer through the pain and trials so many of us feel cursed with, and receive the blessings that so many of us go through mortality doubting we can possibly qualify for.

We are told that one day we all will feel that everything is fair. Somehow those of us who suffer through a wife's adultery and abandonment, or those women who suffer because of a husband's infidelity, those men and women who long for children but are denied the opportunity because they are infertile or they never find a spouse, will feel that it's fair that they didn't have kids while surrounded by people who have all the kids they want. Somehow those of us who are almost completely alone, who would give almost anything on most days for a hug and a little attention, will be surrounded by people who complain about too much family and feel it's fair. Somehow those who live in abject poverty or war-torn countries while hundreds of millions live in peace and prosperity will feel it's fair. Somehow Christian women abducted by Muslims and forced into sexual slavery will look at women complaining about their husbands having an affair and feel it's fair.

How will we feel it's fair? I have no idea. I can't begin to comprehend this. So all I can do is take it on faith.

XEmilyX wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 1:18 pm Help me understand the atonement better. If a man kills or does adultery but is forgiven, Is it fair that they get the same reward in heaven as someone who didn't do such things?
Is it fair though to be eternally restricted or some reward in heaven isn't given to you because of a bad mistake? (Though killing isn't considered a mistake in my opinion)

I think it's unfair and fair all at the same time that if someone did a sin I didnt do that they dont get a reward that I get.
But I also feel like it's unfair because I have sinned out of pain in my life and others haven't chosen to do what I did. And I feel like they'll get a reward I will never get because of it.

Help me understand mercy, justice and eternal rewards and hope.

Well, I look no further than my mother. She was born and raised in the church. She always chose the right. She never smoked, drank or did drugs. She waited til marriage to have sexual relations. She lived a very honorable life and got very sick and lived through much anguish for many years and then died. Now, take me for example. I didn't do righteous things and chose other paths for many years until I changed. Now, I hope we are both on the same path for the same reward. And, I think we will both get there. My regrets are that it's harder for me to overcome the world than it was for my mother. It's harder for me to achieve the same spirituality. So, I guess the lesson to this story is we can do things the easy way and receive more blessings on the wsy or choose the harder path and delay those blessings and endure more pains spiritually along the way. There's no doubts that my mother who has tasted the glories of heaven wants the same thing for me. So, even if my journey is harder, takes longer, the atonement makes it possible to become perfectly cleansed and receive the same eternal reward as my mother where we will both enjoy alike in my Father's kingdom.

XEmilyX wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 1:18 pm Help me understand the atonement better. If a man kills or does adultery but is forgiven, Is it fair that they get the same reward in heaven as someone who didn't do such things?
Is it fair though to be eternally restricted or some reward in heaven isn't given to you because of a bad mistake? (Though killing isn't considered a mistake in my opinion)

I think it's unfair and fair all at the same time that if someone did a sin I didnt do that they dont get a reward that I get.
But I also feel like it's unfair because I have sinned out of pain in my life and others haven't chosen to do what I did. And I feel like they'll get a reward I will never get because of it.

Help me understand mercy, justice and eternal rewards and hope.

1. All Existence is a different place than you think it is.
2. People are born into different circumstances that promote certain behaviors over others
3. Repenting is about returning to the path. It's much harder for an adulterer to repent and return to the path than for someone who never did anything wrong. So in the end, I think they put in the same amount of work. Although, I don't think that matters because of #1.

I believe that what we put out there, eventually comes back to us unless we are conscious of the consequences and do what we can to make “at-one.” I believe that those who twisted Christ’s words to make people shift blame and thereby prevent their progress, may be the ultimate anti-Christ. Christ not only took responsibility for himself but also realized he could help improve conditions that he inherited. And should we follow him in only certain ways?

Life seems unfair because we’re comparing apples with oranges. We don’t see the life-time of thoughts, feelings and actions of others. We don’t know their unique strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes it looks like it’s unfair in our favor and other times others’ favor. Progress is best measured by time - how well we’ve done compared to the past - not by comparing ourselves with others. God looks on the heart.