LDS Freedom Forum

"[Wilford Woodruff] referred to a saying of Joseph Smith, . . . That if the People knew what was behind the veil, they would try by every means . . . that they might get there, but the Lord in his wisdom has implanted the fear of death in every person that they might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of their creator."
A. Karl Larson, and Katharine Miles Larson, eds., Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 1 (Logan: Utah State University Press, 1980), pp. 465-66. Note: Charles Lowell Walker wrote the words to the hymn "Dearest Children, God Is Near You," Hymns, no. 96.
Read more on this in a four page article at LDSLiving. Prophets and Apostles' Accounts of Seeing the Spirit World and Beyond the "Veil of Death"
http://www.ldsliving.com/Prophets-and-A ... ry-content

Alma 40:11-14
11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this estate, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.

So which group of people would have been referred to as wanting to get their by any means?

Or does D&C 76:81-86, 88-90 become more applicable?
81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit...

88 ...And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.
89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.

And this is great news for those wondering how one can qualify for kingdom of glory. BUT, for those that cannot abide either a celestial or terrestrial kingdom will suffer for their own sins in hell prior to entering therein.
Doctrine and Covenants 19:15
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

D&C 88:29-31
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

D&C 19:16-18, 20
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

I am thinking that section 76(expansive vision at John Johnson Farm of the three degrees of glory) would have shaped Joseph's comments on this subject. He and others saw so many things but I believe he was speaking of what the Father has prepared in the eternities. Here is something the scriptures say on this. King James Bible, 1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
I will be doing a post on section 76(who, what, when, where, and why) in the continuing Kirtland posts next. I have been in the upper room there at the John Johnson farmhouse where this event happened. I have some great sourced information from those who were there in the 1830's. These Kirtland era posts have some amazing experiences in them.

After my grandma had a profound spiritual experience, she no longer feared death - (she didn’t believe in organized religion, but still prayed & believed in God). Such reassurance seems common with people who have near-death-experiences.

Joseph Smith said, “That which is spiritual [is] in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual.” When I think of various afterlife kingdoms or realms and how Christ said, “In my house are many mansions,” & the emphasis on love, I consider how life, relating and consciousness are now. Some people can empathize & relate with people from various perspectives - and maybe that ability to love thy neighbor (whoever they are) is the basis of where we “reside” or visit in afterlife realms.

Usually when people call someone or something “organized,” it’s a compliment. But somehow in religion it’s a put-down. According to Elder Neal A. Maxwell (1926–2004) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, one of the reasons Christ organized His Church was “because random, individual goodness is not enough in the fight against evil.” The Lord spelled out the issue clearly when He said, “Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion” (D&C 132:8). Organized is exactly what a religion needs to be.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:11 pm "[Wilford Woodruff] referred to a saying of Joseph Smith, . . . That if the People knew what was behind the veil, they would try by every means . . . that they might get there, but the Lord in his wisdom has implanted the fear of death in every person that they might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of their creator."
A. Karl Larson, and Katharine Miles Larson, eds., Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 1 (Logan: Utah State University Press, 1980), pp. 465-66. Note: Charles Lowell Walker wrote the words to the hymn "Dearest Children, God Is Near You," Hymns, no. 96.
Read more on this in a four page article at LDSLiving. Prophets and Apostles' Accounts of Seeing the Spirit World and Beyond the "Veil of Death"
http://www.ldsliving.com/Prophets-and-A ... ry-content

I feel like that's not quite accurate. Some people have little or no fear of death, even from a young age.

harakim wrote: ↑May 13th, 2019, 1:56 pm

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:11 pm "[Wilford Woodruff] referred to a saying of Joseph Smith, . . . That if the People knew what was behind the veil, they would try by every means . . . that they might get there, but the Lord in his wisdom has implanted the fear of death in every person that they might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of their creator."
A. Karl Larson, and Katharine Miles Larson, eds., Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 1 (Logan: Utah State University Press, 1980), pp. 465-66. Note: Charles Lowell Walker wrote the words to the hymn "Dearest Children, God Is Near You," Hymns, no. 96.
Read more on this in a four page article at LDSLiving. Prophets and Apostles' Accounts of Seeing the Spirit World and Beyond the "Veil of Death"
http://www.ldsliving.com/Prophets-and-A ... ry-content

I feel like that's not quite accurate. Some people have little or no fear of death, even from a young age.

A good general quote that applies to everybody I have ever talked to. Also, those who have visited spirit paradise with their added NDE experience seem to no longer fear death. Amazing what extra real revelation can do and change for the righteous, and those who are striving to be.

eddie wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 7:18 am Usually when people call someone or something “organized,” it’s a compliment. But somehow in religion it’s a put-down. According to Elder Neal A. Maxwell (1926–2004) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, one of the reasons Christ organized His Church was “because random, individual goodness is not enough in the fight against evil.” The Lord spelled out the issue clearly when He said, “Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion” (D&C 132:8). Organized is exactly what a religion needs to be.

Satan and his "angels" are highly organized in their efforts to defeat us. they have no veil but see clearly, and are highly motivated, does it surprised we also need to be highly organized as well?

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Ephesians 4 King James Version