Vilate Kimball Receives a Vision About Plural Marriage

[MMbelieve]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Hmmm, seems the men would be lining up waiting for the women if they knew how wonderful it would be to their eternal life far above and beyond what any single wife could ever be or do for him.
Men need to remember that agency is required and many women wouldn't accept polygamy.

Think about it...if only we knew just how wonderful heaven would be then people would be casting off every single care of the world and being perfect disciples just waiting to inherit their mansions.

This whole...”if you only knew” only goes so far.

Gods power comes from truth! Knowledge is pretty important too.

[MMbelieve]

I’ll say this time and time again. Those who don’t believe in D&C 132 don’t have the faith necessary for abrahamic sacrifices. They through ancient and modern prophets under the bus. And they have an incorrect view on the reality that God lives. I think they’re going to be headed for a rude awakening at some point.

Talk about rude awakenings, I'm interested to know what God will say to you when you're confronted about having taught his fair daughters that even if they are the most righteous of all, they can never be clean until after death if they are raped.

It might not matter at that point. The only people who get to see God again are those who Christ vouches for. And Christ forgave the woman and he made her clean again.

[ori]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Not sure why you think this. Can you elaborate? Plural marriage *is* practiced, by fundamentalists, and I’m pretty sure they’re not happy. Not really. It’s grave sin.

Also, many (but not all) of those early saints that practiced polygamy had a very difficult time of it. I don’t think this life is ideal for polygamy. I think monogamy is the best family structure for husbands, wives, and children.

I also think that one of the most righteous men who ever lived, Abraham, was living *righteously* in polygamy. Same for other patriarchs. But that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal situation in this life. I believe in all of the standard works, including D&C 132.

So to me, polygamy is a Godly, eternal principle, but not really a great way to live in this life. The numbers don’t work out, there’s lots of jealousy, etc.

[Benaishtart]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Not sure why you think this. Can you elaborate? Plural marriage *is* practiced, by fundamentalists, and I’m pretty sure they’re not happy. Not really. It’s grave sin.

Also, many (but not all) of those early saints that practiced polygamy had a very difficult time of it. I don’t think this life is ideal for polygamy. I think monogamy is the best family structure for husbands, wives, and children.

I also think that one of the most righteous men who ever lived, Abraham, was living *righteously* in polygamy. Same for other patriarchs. But that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal situation in this life. I believe in all of the standard works, including D&C 132.

So to me, polygamy is a Godly, eternal principle, but not really a great way to live in this life. The numbers don’t work out, there’s lots of jealousy, etc.

I actually agree with you 100%

[MMbelieve]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Not sure why you think this. Can you elaborate? Plural marriage *is* practiced, by fundamentalists, and I’m pretty sure they’re not happy. Not really. It’s grave sin.

Also, many (but not all) of those early saints that practiced polygamy had a very difficult time of it. I don’t think this life is ideal for polygamy. I think monogamy is the best family structure for husbands, wives, and children.

I also think that one of the most righteous men who ever lived, Abraham, was living *righteously* in polygamy. Same for other patriarchs. But that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal situation in this life. I believe in all of the standard works, including D&C 132.

So to me, polygamy is a Godly, eternal principle, but not really a great way to live in this life. The numbers don’t work out, there’s lots of jealousy, etc.

What I find interesting to think about is our world now versus the millennial world versus heavenly world. We know of some things that will change with a millennial world such as no sorrow, animals wont eat other animals or humans, people will not taste death but be changed, heavenly beings will walk among us, Christ will be present, no more pains or illness etc. BUT will life really be different in the basics of how we live? I tend to believe it will not be all that different from today, we just wont have all the filth and bad stuff inflicted upon us.
People will still be people and we will not be perfect. Would monogamy still be considered best for families as it is now? I believe it will.

We do not know as much about the next stage of what happens when we get to heaven. How much different will “people” and life really be? Sure we will have developed enough Christ like attributes to be there and thus we will be kind and loving and temperate and humble etc but will we be immune from any jealousy? And favoritism? I highly highly doubt it. After all God says himself that he is a jealous God and he needs to be first and nothing shall come before him...
Why would a perfected woman not have the same right to say such a thing to her husband? I think she does! Thats the majesty of a Goddess, she is not less than her God/Husband.

I think people have over simplified their vision of heaven thinking it will be something that it may not actually be.

Just some of my thoughts.

[oneClimbs]

Good points. How do you explain D&C 132? It’s also part of the standard works.

Good question. I think it was fabricated, perhaps from parts of an actual revelation, because the first part of 132 where it discusses and man and his wife (in the singular) actually meshes with what is recorded in Joseph Smith's journal entry here which was used as the basis for D&C 131:

Before we retired the prest. gave bro Johnson & wife some instructions on the priesthood. He put his hand on my knee and says “your life is hid with Christ in God.” and so is many others”. Addressing Benjamin says he “nothing but the unpardonable sin can prevent him (me) from inheriting eternal glory for he is sealed up by the power of the priesthood unto eternal life having taken the step which is necessary for that purpose.” He said that except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity while in this probation by the power and authority of the Holy priesthood they will cease to increase when they die (i e) they will not have any children in the resurrection, but those who are married by the power & authority of the priesthood in this life & continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost will continue to increase & have children in the celestial glory. The unpardonable sin is to shed innocent blood or be accessory thereto. All other sins will be visited with judgement in the flesh and the spirit being delivered to the buffetings of Satan untill the day of the Lord Jesus.” I feel desirous to be united in an everlasting covenant to my wife and pray that it may soon be. prest. J. said that they way he knew in whom to confide. God told him in whom he might place confidence. He also said that in the celestial glory there was three heavens or degrees, and in order to obtain the highest a man must enter into this order of the priesthood and if he dont he cant obtain it. He may enter into the other but that is the end of his kingdom he cannot have an increase. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... -clayton/2

Many people feel like if they give up D&C 132 they throw out polygamy but they also throw out celestial marriage. Well, that isn't true because above is a record Joseph taught celestial marriage but there is no mention of polygamy.

Joseph Smith never publicly taught polygamy and there are none of his writings that teach it. The only times Joseph commented on it were vehement condemnations. Then, all of a sudden this secret copy of a revelation (132) conveniently appears years later after the fact when they are debating the temple lot case and it was necessary to prove that Joseph was a polygamist all along. He may indeed have been or not, personally, I could be convinced either way.

D&C 132 contradicts the Book of Mormon in many places and it contradicts doctrine concerning man and wife that are clearly stated in many places while it is just a single witness with questionable origins.

I'll explain why I think it is contradictory.

Remember: "Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else. (D&C 42:22) unless of course: "if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified;" (D&C 132:61)

This makes about as much sense as "thou shalt not commit adultery" unless of course "she's really hot and you can get her husband out of the picture." (the law of David and Bathsheba)

Cleave unto your wife and NONE else, UNLESS you desire another wife?

In Jacob 1:15, the Nephite's were considered wicked for desiring more than one wife, the very thing that D&C 132 allows: "...the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son."

New revelation cannot contradict scripture, especially the most correct book on earth and its precepts (a precept is a command respecting MORAL conduct by the way).

Even section 131 seems to have the same origin as section 132. The full story of the origin of section 132 is just silly.

131 comes from a journal and from when Joseph was still alive, I believe so they are different in that respect unless I am missing something.

[Zathura]

Good points. How do you explain D&C 132? It’s also part of the standard works.

Good question. I think it was fabricated, perhaps from parts of an actual revelation, because the first part of 132 where it discusses and man and his wife (in the singular) actually meshes with what is recorded in Joseph Smith's journal entry here which was used as the basis for D&C 131:

Before we retired the prest. gave bro Johnson & wife some instructions on the priesthood. He put his hand on my knee and says “your life is hid with Christ in God.” and so is many others”. Addressing Benjamin says he “nothing but the unpardonable sin can prevent him (me) from inheriting eternal glory for he is sealed up by the power of the priesthood unto eternal life having taken the step which is necessary for that purpose.” He said that except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity while in this probation by the power and authority of the Holy priesthood they will cease to increase when they die (i e) they will not have any children in the resurrection, but those who are married by the power & authority of the priesthood in this life & continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost will continue to increase & have children in the celestial glory. The unpardonable sin is to shed innocent blood or be accessory thereto. All other sins will be visited with judgement in the flesh and the spirit being delivered to the buffetings of Satan untill the day of the Lord Jesus.” I feel desirous to be united in an everlasting covenant to my wife and pray that it may soon be. prest. J. said that they way he knew in whom to confide. God told him in whom he might place confidence. He also said that in the celestial glory there was three heavens or degrees, and in order to obtain the highest a man must enter into this order of the priesthood and if he dont he cant obtain it. He may enter into the other but that is the end of his kingdom he cannot have an increase. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... -clayton/2

Many people feel like if they give up D&C 132 they throw out polygamy but they also throw out celestial marriage. Well, that isn't true because above is a record Joseph taught celestial marriage but there is no mention of polygamy.

Joseph Smith never publicly taught polygamy and there are none of his writings that teach it. The only times Joseph commented on it were vehement condemnations. Then, all of a sudden this secret copy of a revelation (132) conveniently appears years later after the fact when they are debating the temple lot case and it was necessary to prove that Joseph was a polygamist all along. He may indeed have been or not, personally, I could be convinced either way.

D&C 132 contradicts the Book of Mormon in many places and it contradicts doctrine concerning man and wife that are clearly stated in many places while it is just a single witness with questionable origins.

I'll explain why I think it is contradictory.

Remember: "Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else. (D&C 42:22) unless of course: "if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified;" (D&C 132:61)

This makes about as much sense as "thou shalt not commit adultery" unless of course "she's really hot and you can get her husband out of the picture." (the law of David and Bathsheba)

Cleave unto your wife and NONE else, UNLESS you desire another wife?

In Jacob 1:15, the Nephite's were considered wicked for desiring more than one wife, the very thing that D&C 132 allows: "...the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son."

New revelation cannot contradict scripture, especially the most correct book on earth and its precepts (a precept is a command respecting MORAL conduct by the way).

Even section 131 seems to have the same origin as section 132. The full story of the origin of section 132 is just silly.

131 comes from a journal and from when Joseph was still alive, I believe so they are different in that respect unless I am missing something.

Section 132 comes from entries written by Brother Kingsbury, which was supposedly copied from "the original" written by William Clayton and then the original happened to be destroyed(convenient).

Section 131 also happened to come from William Clayton, it's written in his handwriting.

Already given the shady story of section 132 and knowing Clayton was involved should cast doubt on anything else he touched.

The evidence surrounding this section doesn't seem to prove it a total fabrication like 132, but it does suggest that it might have possibly been misunderstood or written incorrectly in some places.

I really need to find this article I read on it a few months back.

Long story short it's likely that section 131 is just talking about the 3 kingdoms we already know about and not 3 more kingdoms within the highest kingdom, with the "celestial marriage" bit added in to further the claim that polygamy is of God

[kirtland r.m.]

Zina Huntington, Benjamin Johnson, Heber Kimball, Vilate Kimball, Sarah Leavitt, Emily Partridge, Mary Elizabeth Rollins, Letitia Smith Dunn, Lucy Walker, Elizabeth Whitney, Newell Whitney and others received direct visions and revelations confirming plural marriage after they'd fretted and prayed about it.

[shadow]

Zina Huntington, Benjamin Johnson, Heber Kimball, Vilate Kimball, Sarah Leavitt, Emily Partridge, Mary Elizabeth Rollins, Letitia Smith Dunn, Lucy Walker, Elizabeth Whitney, Newell Whitney and others received direct visions and revelations confirming plural marriage after they'd fretted and prayed about it.

The ignorant who worship their own philosophies don't care about anything contrary to their wisdom, but thank you for reminding us about those who were actually in the arena at the time. The faith of some of these early saints and the manifestations they were blessed with are great witnesses of the works of God, even the works we may not fully grasp like polygamy. The ignorant who are proud of their own concoctions cannot grasp polygamy being an eternal principle.

[BruceRGilbert]

I wish to address the damage that a belief in a future with polygamy can cause in one's paradigm. For me, it is very unsettling and personal. It is a notion and idea that can be very damaging and damning, especially if it is utilized as justification to "keep looking" even though you are married.

I would think that most are familiar with "predatory" behavior when it comes to "wolves" in sheep's clothing. I reminisce of John C. Bennet, the Mayor of Nauvoo and the havoc and damage brought about by his "spiritual wifery." Many were seduced by such a spirit.

On my mission, I fell in love with a young woman whom I would baptize into the Church. It was my intention to return, after my mission, and marry her. I spoke with the Mission President about my feelings and plans, to which he countered, "Elder Gilbert, if you return and marry that girl, you will ruin the work." Consequently, there followed a great trial of my faith. I had been asked to choose between my feelings and my testimony of wanting to do what was right - I was on the Lord's errand and not my own. What happened, shouldn't have happened . . . I shouldn't have "noticed" anyone while I was engaged in the Lord's work - but it did. I was appropriately moved out of the area where she resided. The remainder of my mission was a struggle because of the dilemma of attempting to resolve between my feelings and my testimony - that were diametrically opposed. I wept many times. Upon returning home, it became apparent that my mission president had taken precautions by writing my parents, my Branch President, and my Stake President to not allow me to return to that country and marry that girl. It was devastating. The only way that I was able to continue "internally" was by believing that someday, we could be together . . . viz a viz "polygamy."

I find myself angry about that, now. Of course I informed my wife about my feelings and experiences before we got married and she is aware, but I am angry because things are not how they ought to be. It isn't right that she nor I should have this hole in our mutual fulfillment. It bothers me, because I realize that I have little control over whom I love, but I know how it is suppose to be. And so, it is with experience that I share, it is imperative that "polygamy" never be used as justification for an affair of the heart or anything like it. It is a painful, thorny path contrary to reality.

[ori]

I wish to address the damage that a belief in a future with polygamy can cause in one's paradigm. For me, it is very unsettling and personal. It is a notion and idea that can be very damaging and damning, especially if it is utilized as justification to "keep looking" even though you are married.

I would think that most are familiar with "predatory" behavior when it comes to "wolves" in sheep's clothing. I reminisce of John C. Bennet, the Mayor of Nauvoo and the havoc and damage brought about by his "spiritual wifery." Many were seduced by such a spirit.

On my mission, I fell in love with a young woman whom I would baptize into the Church. It was my intention to return, after my mission, and marry her. I spoke with the Mission President about my feelings and plans, to which he countered, "Elder Gilbert, if you return and marry that girl, you will ruin the work." Consequently, there followed a great trial of my faith. I had been asked to choose between my feelings and my testimony of wanting to do what was right - I was on the Lord's errand and not my own. What happened, shouldn't have happened . . . I shouldn't have "noticed" anyone while I was engaged in the Lord's work - but it did. I was appropriately moved out of the area where she resided. The remainder of my mission was a struggle because of the dilemma of attempting to resolve between my feelings and my testimony - that were diametrically opposed. I wept many times. Upon returning home, it became apparent that my mission president had taken precautions by writing my parents, my Branch President, and my Stake President to not allow me to return to that country and marry that girl. It was devastating. The only way that I was able to continue "internally" was by believing that someday, we could be together . . . viz a viz "polygamy."

I find myself angry about that, now. Of course I informed my wife about my feelings and experiences before we got married and she is aware, but I am angry because things are not how they ought to be. It isn't right that she nor I should have this hole in our mutual fulfillment. It bothers me, because I realize that I have little control over whom I love, but I know how it is suppose to be. And so, it is with experience that I share, it is imperative that "polygamy" never be used as justification for an affair of the heart or anything like it. It is a painful, thorny path contrary to reality.

Thank you for sharing. I completely agree with your warning. Of course one must not have polygamous intentions in his heart. This is lust and is condemned by Jesus. And Jacob warns against this issue of polygamous intentions as well.

My unrelated question for you is, do you feel that the instruction the mission president gave you was inspired and correct? In hindsight, I’d expect you to have come to a conclusion on this respect, no? I’m just curious.

[BruceRGilbert]

Of course one must not have polygamous intentions in his heart. This is lust and is condemned by Jesus. And Jacob warns against this issue of polygamous intentions as well.

Ori, to conclude that an affair of the heart is based upon lust is quite presumptuous. Could it be possible that such a thing is based upon a "spiritual, soul mate" connection beyond the physical "eye candy" that is abhorrently shallow? What if "sex" had nothing to do with it? It didn't. She had a wound concealed that I discerned and understood. There is a difference between lust, love and charity. The depth of a person's "pond" depends upon the type of foundation that lay at its bottom.

My unrelated question for you is, do you feel that the instruction the mission president gave you was inspired and correct? In hindsight, I’d expect you to have come to a conclusion on this respect, no? I’m just curious.

Such a question can only be answered with a question . . . .

Do you feel that the instruction that God gave to Abraham to sacrifice his son was inspired and correct? In my instance, there was no angel to stay the blade. I cannot even presume to answer your question extant of the reality that is. Such a thing can only be answered by God. In hindsight, I find another statement made by my Mission President about this situation to be quite humorous - as if it mattered: "If I am wrong, it will be my fault." In such "life-altering" directives, fault has little justification or consolation in the outcome.

One cannot know the route of the "path not taken." We can only deal with the realities of the path that is, and that, hopefully, without regret.

[BruceRGilbert]

An "Ode" to Life Isn't Fair and I'm Not Good Enough
By Bruce R. R. Gilbert

When the living of life has got you down
and the veiled curtain reveals a frown,
Darkness prevails in the absence of light.
Fulfillment is lost when things are not bright.
A shadow is cast, ere upon the soul
in the loss of dreams, once held goal.
Life isn't fair for any, it seems,
when control is relinquished for unfulfilled dreams.

This "Ode" is to "actions not good enough;"
when life is cold and the going is rough.
Self-pity is a luxury we can't afford -
a focus on malignancy; hereby, stored.
Attention is turned away from the path
and brought to bear on concealed wrath.
It cultivates pain manifest within,
directing blame and wresting sin.

Options are many to resume the course.
Beginnings are had by consulting the Source.
"What is deserved," may be our plea?
An open heart will allow us to see.
Obstacles abound and get in our way.
Overcoming these things requires we pray.
Over, under, around, maybe "through" -
Directions reveal how to make a better "you."

Insight prevails! Do not slacken the pace!
For we are found worthy to be in the race.
Taking account of the things that are ours,
blessings unfold more numerous than stars!
Engender in the depths, GRATITUDE unfeigned
and guidance will deliver fetters unchained.
SOAR to the heights of joy and arise,
For God, by grace, will open your eyes.

Be not found in the abyss of despair!
God, Angels and Saints know that you care.
Because of such care, certainly love can abound
and Heavenly hope in the future be found.

[BruceRGilbert]

I stood in the presence of God, today,
Beckoned by a yearning to pray.
To Him, alone, my soul bled out
With feeble efforts of self-doubt.

With faith in Him, I firmly believe,
But in myself, give rise to grieve.
I haven’t the power of full, self-control;
an inability to fulfill my role.

My weaknesses, I plainly see,
Wreaking havoc with what I want to be.
And so, I fall down on bended knee –
Oh, God, forgive and make me free!

[BruceRGilbert]

When Caterpillars Become Butterflies . . .


To the heart not synchronized with mine,
A pretense that life's quest is fine . . . .
Life's hopes and dreams unfulfilled
Because your presence they once thrilled.

Upon your face no more to gaze,
The absence of a resonant praise!
Dare I venture ere to feel
A love so vivid and surreal?

Dare I pierce the vanquished veil,
Imagining quest's sightless brail?
Shadows beckon the greater sin -
Lost in thoughts of what might have been.

If your journey has created you bliss,
I can find serenity and joy in this.
My sacrifice will not be in vain,
If unlike me, you have no pain.

To cherish engenders a love, "real,"
Whose presence motivates my appeal.
Inadequate am I, words to express -
To you, I pray always the Lord to bless.

Your happiness and fulfillment can be mine.

Broken Hearts are the most tender . . . .

[Mindfields]

Zina Huntington, Benjamin Johnson, Heber Kimball, Vilate Kimball, Sarah Leavitt, Emily Partridge, Mary Elizabeth Rollins, Letitia Smith Dunn, Lucy Walker, Elizabeth Whitney, Newell Whitney and others received direct visions and revelations confirming plural marriage after they'd fretted and prayed about it.

And the biggest miracle of all is the fact that they remembered it decades after it supposedly happened. Too bad none of them mentioned it or wrote it down at the time it "happened".

[BeNotDeceived]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Thus saith the Lord, revelation ceased also with the manifesto.

Thank goodness for what we have and our opportunity to visit type and shadow.

[ori]

Of course one must not have polygamous intentions in his heart. This is lust and is condemned by Jesus. And Jacob warns against this issue of polygamous intentions as well.

Ori, to conclude that an affair of the heart is based upon lust is quite presumptuous. Could it be possible that such a thing is based upon a "spiritual, soul mate" connection beyond the physical "eye candy" that is abhorrently shallow? What if "sex" had nothing to do with it? It didn't. She had a wound concealed that I discerned and understood. There is a difference between lust, love and charity. The depth of a person's "pond" depends upon the type of foundation that lay at its bottom.

My unrelated question for you is, do you feel that the instruction the mission president gave you was inspired and correct? In hindsight, I’d expect you to have come to a conclusion on this respect, no? I’m just curious.

Such a question can only be answered with a question . . . .

Do you feel that the instruction that God gave to Abraham to sacrifice his son was inspired and correct? In my instance, there was no angel to stay the blade. I cannot even presume to answer your question extant of the reality that is. Such a thing can only be answered by God. In hindsight, I find another statement made by my Mission President about this situation to be quite humorous - as if it mattered: "If I am wrong, it will be my fault." In such "life-altering" directives, fault has little justification or consolation in the outcome.

One cannot know the route of the "path not taken." We can only deal with the realities of the path that is, and that, hopefully, without regret.

I was not passing judgement on you in my mind. I’m sorry it came across that way. I wasn’t referring to your case in particular.

[shadow]

I wish to address the damage that a belief in a future with polygamy can cause in one's paradigm. For me, it is very unsettling and personal. It is a notion and idea that can be very damaging and damning, especially if it is utilized as justification to "keep looking" even though you are married.

I would think that most are familiar with "predatory" behavior when it comes to "wolves" in sheep's clothing. I reminisce of John C. Bennet, the Mayor of Nauvoo and the havoc and damage brought about by his "spiritual wifery." Many were seduced by such a spirit.

On my mission, I fell in love with a young woman whom I would baptize into the Church. It was my intention to return, after my mission, and marry her. I spoke with the Mission President about my feelings and plans, to which he countered, "Elder Gilbert, if you return and marry that girl, you will ruin the work." Consequently, there followed a great trial of my faith. I had been asked to choose between my feelings and my testimony of wanting to do what was right - I was on the Lord's errand and not my own. What happened, shouldn't have happened . . . I shouldn't have "noticed" anyone while I was engaged in the Lord's work - but it did. I was appropriately moved out of the area where she resided. The remainder of my mission was a struggle because of the dilemma of attempting to resolve between my feelings and my testimony - that were diametrically opposed. I wept many times. Upon returning home, it became apparent that my mission president had taken precautions by writing my parents, my Branch President, and my Stake President to not allow me to return to that country and marry that girl. It was devastating. The only way that I was able to continue "internally" was by believing that someday, we could be together . . . viz a viz "polygamy."

I find myself angry about that, now. Of course I informed my wife about my feelings and experiences before we got married and she is aware, but I am angry because things are not how they ought to be. It isn't right that she nor I should have this hole in our mutual fulfillment. It bothers me, because I realize that I have little control over whom I love, but I know how it is suppose to be. And so, it is with experience that I share, it is imperative that "polygamy" never be used as justification for an affair of the heart or anything like it. It is a painful, thorny path contrary to reality.

My mission president met his wife while he was a young man serving a mission. Seemed to work out for them. His wife, Ardeth Kapp, even served as YW general president of the church prior to her husband being called to serve as mission president. One of my MTC teachers met his wife, the daughter of the mission president, while he was serving. Some of my favorite missionaries while serving married each other after their missions. My parents met while they were serving in the southern state's mission.
The advice we were given was to lock our hearts. I think it's possible to meet your spouse while serving but not let it be a distraction. Once you're released you can take it from there. You were told not to, maybe that was right or maybe it wasn't. Either way the choice was made by you.
Sorry if you may have been given bad advice- if that's the case. Either way, I hope you have moved on. It sounds like you haven't, at least not completely.
I had a girlfriend who I left to go serve. The plan was to get married after I got home, actually after she got home- she wanted to serve a mission. Her Bishop advised her to marry another person in their ward and she did. I have no doubt that if I didn't go on a mission we'd have married and would still be married today. I thought she was amazing and nothing has happened that has changed my opinion today. She's probably still amazing. But I'm soooo glad I married the woman I did. It's been over 22 years and I haven't looked back. The bridge was already crossed and there's no going back anyway. No need to spend a thought thinking about it. I ran into her Mom shortly after I returned home and we talked for a few minutes and laughed over a few things then as we were parting ways she looked at me and said she wished her daughter would've married me. I guess her husband isn't funny
This song nails it for me. I think it can for you too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsl_a3Cu4OQ
Lyrics
Just the other night a hometown football game
my wife and I ran into my old high school flame
and as I introduced them the past came back to me
and I couldn't help but think of the way things used to be
She was the one that I'd wanted for all times
and each night I'd spend prayin' that God would make her mine
and if he'd only grant me this wish I wished back then
I'd never ask for anything again
Chorus:
sometimes I thank god for unanswered prayers
remember when you're talkin' to the man upstairs
that just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care
some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers
She wasn't quite the angel that I remembered in my dreams
and I could tell that time had changed me
in her eyes too it seemed
we tried to talk about the old days
there wasn't much we could recall
I guess the Lord knows what he's doin' after all
And as she walked away and I looked at my wife
and then and there I thanked the good lord
for the gifts in my life
Chorus
Some of God's greatest gifts are all too often unanswered...
some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers

[BruceRGilbert]

Thank you, Shadow. I am very familiar with Garth Brooks' song. I listen to Country Music because it takes me back to my roots. There was another that got me. If love is real, it is a forever thing because that is its nature. "Love never faileth." The negotiation of such feelings towards another doesn't reside in their "possession," but in their fulfillment. It comes with a price and that is self-sacrifice.

And another by Garth Brooks

Broken Hearts are the most tender . . . .

[dusty55]

A true principle(only to be lived in mortality when God commands it), though probably not easy to live in the early days of the restoration.
Vilate Kimball received a revelation about her husband, Heber C. Kimball, taking an additional wife.

In Nauvoo, shortly after his return from England, my father, among others of his brethren, was taught the plural wife doctrine, and was told by Joseph, the Prophet, three times, to go and take a certain woman as his wife; but not till he commanded him in the name of the Lord did he obey. At the same time Joseph told him not to divulge this secret, not even to my mother, for fear that she would not receive it; for his life was in constant jeopardy, not only from outside influences and enemies, who were seeking some plea to take him back to Missouri, but from false brethren who had crept like snakes into his bosom and then betrayed him.
My father realized the situation fully, and the love and reverence he bore for the Prophet were so great that he would sooner have laid down his life than have betrayed him. This was one of the greatest tests of his faith he had ever experienced. The thought of deceiving the kind and faithful wife of his youth, whom he loved with all his heart, and who with him had borne so patiently their separations, and all the trials and sacrifices they had been called to endure, was more than he felt able to bear.

He realized not only the addition of trouble and perplexity that such a step must bring upon him, but his sorrow and misery were increased by the thought of my mother hearing of it from some other source, which would no doubt separate them, and he shrank from the thought of such a thing, or of causing her any unhappiness. Finally he was so tried that he went to Joseph and told him how he felt—that he was fearful if he took such a step he could not stand, but would be overcome. The Prophet, full of sympathy for him, went and inquired of the Lord. His answer was, "Tell him to go and do as he has been commanded, and if I see that there is any danger of his apostatizing, I will take him to myself."

The fact that he had to be commanded three times to do this thing shows that the trial must have been extraordinary, for he was a man who, from the first, had yielded implicit obedience to every requirement of the Prophet.

When first hearing the principle taught, believing that he would be called upon to enter into it, he had thought of two elderly ladies named Pitkin, great friends of my mother's who, he believed, would cause her little if any, unhappiness. But the woman he was commanded to take was an English lady named Sarah Noon, nearer my mother's age, who came over with the company of Saints in the same ship in which father and Brother Bridham returned from Europe. She had been married and was the mother of two little girls, but left her husband on account of his drunken and dissolute habits. Father was told to take her as his wife and provide for her and her children, and he did so.

My mother had noticed a change in his manner and appearance, and when she inquired the cause, he tried to evade her questions. At last he promised he would tell her after a while, if she would only wait. This trouble so worked upon his mind that his anxious and haggard looks betrayed him daily and hourly, and finally his misery became so unbearable that it was impossible to control his feelings. He became sick in body, but his mental wretchedness was too great to allow of his retiring, and he would walk the floor till nearly morning, and sometimes the agony of his mind was so terrible that he would wring his hands and weep like a child, and beseech the Lord to be merciful and reveal to her this principle, for he himself could not break the vow of secrecy.

The anguish of their hearts was indescribable, and when she found it was useless to beseech him longer, she retired to her room and bowed before the Lord and poured out her soul in prayer to Him who hath said: "If any lack wisdom let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not." My father's heart was raised at the same time in supplication. While pleading as one would plead for life, the vision of her mind was opened, and, as darkness flees before the morning sun, so did her sorrow and the groveling things of earth vanish away.

Before her was illustrated the order of celestial marriage, in all its beauty and glory, together with the great exaltation and honor it would confer upon her in that immortal and celestial sphere, if she would accept it and stand in her place by her husband's side. She also saw the woman he had taken to wife, and contemplated with joy the vast and boundless love and union which this order would bring about, as well as the increase of her husband's kingdoms, and the power and the glory extending throughout the eternities, worlds without end.

With a countenance beaming with joy, for she was filled with the Spirit of God, she returned to my father, saying: "Heber, what you kept from me the Lord has shown me." She told me she never saw so happy a man as father was when she described the vision and told him she was satisfied and knew it was from God. She covenanted to stand by him and honor the principle, which covenant she faithfully kept, and though her trials were often heavy and grievious to bear, she knew that father was also being tried, and her integrity was unflinching to the end. She gave my father many wives, and they always found in my mother a faithful friend.





Sources:
Helen Mar Kimball Whitney, "Life Incidents", 15 July 1882;
cited in Stanley B. Kimball, "Heber C. Kimball and Family, the Nauvoo Years,"

How ironic it is that women are now sealed to all of their husband. That became church policy back in 1987. Who knew?

[Bronco73idi]

I love how this topic brings out so many emotions.

Do Isaiah words mean nothing?

Who knows, let the bickering continue....

[XEmilyX]

You can be a God and have one wife or several. Just depends.

[buffalo_girl]

"...the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son."

I haven't read the comments past the first few. I may well be 'out of order'.

It occurred to me a year ago that the Nephites began to 'indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices' when they achieved the luxury of establishing themselves as a 'religious order' rather than as hard scrabble survivors looking to the Lord for constant guidance. Puffed up, hard hearted.

When the 'practice of plural marriage' actually began in Church History is debatable, but after being established and settled in Salt Lake Valley, it seems to have become a practice among the more prominent and 'successful' families.

I see a parallel between Jacob's time and the 'religious order' established in the 'restored' Church in Salt Lake Valley.

[RocknRoll]

I just crack up when people bring up muh dee’n’say 101 business and all that jazz. God’s power comes from plural marriage. Women would be signing up for plural marriage in droves if they truly knew what it was like.

Ya, I don’t know about that. Ever watch the TV Series “Escaping Polygamy”?