LDS Freedom Forum

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings.

Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings.

Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

I would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader. True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold. I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings.

Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

I would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader. True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold. I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

[email protected] wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings.

Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

I would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader. True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold. I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

Feminist troll confirmed. Probably isn't even a member.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:01 pm

[email protected] wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm
Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

I would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader. True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold. I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

Feminist troll confirmed. Probably isn't even a member.

Are you calling me a troll?

I can assure you that my membership is as blue blooded and as well established as anyone elses here. Sorry if my views intimidate you.

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:00 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

If that was the will of the lord I would follow. I would not have a problem. But it's not the will of the lord.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:04 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:00 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

If that was the will of the lord I would follow. I would not have a problem. But it's not the will of the lord.

You mean it is not the will of the lord as you currently understand it. Or are you really presuming to dictate to the Lord what his will is and how he will forever interact with us in the future?

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pmI would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader.

True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold.

I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:04 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:00 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

If that was the will of the lord I would follow. I would not have a problem. But it's not the will of the lord.

You mean it is not the will of the lord as you currently understand it. Or are you really presuming to dictate to the Lord what his will is and how he will forever interact with us in the future?

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm It has been an interesting few days on the forum. I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence. But that is simply not the church that I experience on a daily basis throughout my life. I really think it must come down to weakness and insecurity. Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings. I long for the day when we realize fully their potential and divine destiny. It does not intimidate me at all. That would indeed be weakness.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling. I am glad that we can look to the church and its investment in education to see that this isn't the standard for the church. Why are men so intimidated by science? That is simply weakness and insecurity also. Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world. The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing. I am glad that the brethren have been willing to speak out against it some recently. I am glad they remind us that we really are a global church and that we are all children of God.

Once again it is weakness and insecurity manifesting itself in all of these unflattering ways. We are better than that.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm It has been an interesting few days on the forum. I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence. But that is simply not the church that I experience on a daily basis throughout my life. I really think it must come down to weakness and insecurity. Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings. I long for the day when we realize fully their potential and divine destiny. It does not intimidate me at all. That would indeed be weakness.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling. I am glad that we can look to the church and its investment in education to see that this isn't the standard for the church. Why are men so intimidated by science? That is simply weakness and insecurity also. Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world. The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing. I am glad that the brethren have been willing to speak out against it some recently. I am glad they remind us that we really are a global church and that we are all children of God.

Once again it is weakness and insecurity manifesting itself in all of these unflattering ways. We are better than that.

As a man, I'll respond.

First, I'm not a republican. I believe in the principles of the founding as seen through the lens of the Declaration of Independence, which is the spirit of our nation's Constitution. I am not affiliated with any party. Republicans are wrong a lot. Democrats are wrong a lot more.

Yes, I am weak, which is why I need a Savior.

I might be the head, but she's the heart. It's not a competition, it's a chorus. Why should women be taught to covet what they don't have? How is that righteous? Should men be coveting what God told women they are to do? With regards to women and the priesthood, I don't know enough about that subject to comment intelligently on it. I have no idea if God's plan includes women eventually receiving a priesthood ordination. I just know that it doesn't now. I also know that feeling settled on that fact doesn't put down women. I don't understand...seriously, this boggles my mind...why ANY woman would covet priesthood office. I'm a man with the potential to be a Bishop someday, and I DON'T want that. I'm not intimidated by women leaders. In fact, I WOULD PREFER IT, but who am I to counsel the Lord. It's His priesthood, not mine. Maybe, just maybe, men are ordained to the priesthood for a good reason.

I'm not anti-science, I'm anti science religion. The hubris in contemporary science is breathtaking. It's most alarming when it comes from within the church. Latter-day Saint scientists seem to be under the impression that prophetic teachings have to bend or break to their theories. Latter-day Saint scientists also seem to be oblivious to the fact that much of contemporary scientific theory is rooted in atheism and outright hostility toward God and religion. I don't understand why our scientists are so trusting of what they learn from people who hate God. If I traveled to Iran and was instructed by them about American history, what would I learn? Would their bias in any way affect what is taught? When an article talks about the age of a dinosaur as if the scientists actually KNOW the age of the dinosaur (which is almost always how they phrase it..."dumbdinosaurusrex LIVED 30,000,000 years ago...no debate...no question...just take our word for it, because the ground around the fossils dates that old). It's alarming how trusting people are of what they're told by scientists. I love science. I love REAL inquiry. I don't love the religion of science that excommunicates people with ideas that threaten the anti-God paradigm. And I don't love how condescending the intellectuals in the church are to people who don't have as many degrees as they have, and how they constantly try to bend or break the teachings of the prophets to fit their ideas.

It is a fact that forces are trying to bring the world into captivity. Most of us weren't alive during World War 2. Do you believe there was a Hitler? Do you believe there was a Gadianton? Do you believe we're in the last days? At what point do we finally accept that the threat is real?

They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling.

Why are men so intimidated by science?

Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world.

The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 10:18 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm It has been an interesting few days on the forum. I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence. But that is simply not the church that I experience on a daily basis throughout my life. I really think it must come down to weakness and insecurity. Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings. I long for the day when we realize fully their potential and divine destiny. It does not intimidate me at all. That would indeed be weakness.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling. I am glad that we can look to the church and its investment in education to see that this isn't the standard for the church. Why are men so intimidated by science? That is simply weakness and insecurity also. Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world. The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing. I am glad that the brethren have been willing to speak out against it some recently. I am glad they remind us that we really are a global church and that we are all children of God.

Once again it is weakness and insecurity manifesting itself in all of these unflattering ways. We are better than that.

As a man, I'll respond.

First, I'm not a republican. I believe in the principles of the founding as seen through the lens of the Declaration of Independence, which is the spirit of our nation's Constitution. I am not affiliated with any party. Republicans are wrong a lot. Democrats are wrong a lot more.

Yes, I am weak, which is why I need a Savior.

I might be the head, but she's the heart. It's not a competition, it's a chorus. Why should women be taught to covet what they don't have? How is that righteous? Should men be coveting what God told women they are to do? With regards to women and the priesthood, I don't know enough about that subject to comment intelligently on it. I have no idea if God's plan includes women eventually receiving a priesthood ordination. I just know that it doesn't now. I also know that feeling settled on that fact doesn't put down women. I don't understand...seriously, this boggles my mind...why ANY woman would covet priesthood office. I'm a man with the potential to be a Bishop someday, and I DON'T want that. I'm not intimidated by women leaders. In fact, I WOULD PREFER IT, but who am I to counsel the Lord. It's His priesthood, not mine. Maybe, just maybe, men are ordained to the priesthood for a good reason.

I'm not anti-science, I'm anti science religion. The hubris in contemporary science is breathtaking. It's most alarming when it comes from within the church. Latter-day Saint scientists seem to be under the impression that prophetic teachings have to bend or break to their theories. Latter-day Saint scientists also seem to be oblivious to the fact that much of contemporary scientific theory is rooted in atheism and outright hostility toward God and religion. I don't understand why our scientists are so trusting of what they learn from people who hate God. If I traveled to Iran and was instructed by them about American history, what would I learn? Would their bias in any way affect what is taught? When an article talks about the age of a dinosaur as if the scientists actually KNOW the age of the dinosaur (which is almost always how they phrase it..."dumbdinosaurusrex LIVED 30,000,000 years ago...no debate...no question...just take our word for it, because the ground around the fossils dates that old). It's alarming how trusting people are of what they're told by scientists. I love science. I love REAL inquiry. I don't love the religion of science that excommunicates people with ideas that threaten the anti-God paradigm. And I don't love how condescending the intellectuals in the church are to people who don't have as many degrees as they have, and how they constantly try to bend or break the teachings of the prophets to fit their ideas.

It is a fact that forces are trying to bring the world into captivity. Most of us weren't alive during World War 2. Do you believe there was a Hitler? Do you believe there was a Gadianton? Do you believe we're in the last days? At what point do we finally accept that the threat is real?

I appreciate your candid thoughts on women and priesthood.

I had not clued into this line of thought that the anti science sentiment that is rampant here is actually anti LDS science. I don't quite know what to make of that since it is new to me. I do know that many of my scientific heroes are LDS.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:01 pm

[email protected] wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:57 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:50 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:43 pm
Which is more important living a life conforming to modernity or living a life according to Scripture?
Scripture plainly tells us that yes the man is the leader in the home.
And please stop hiding behind meaningless words like "further light and knowledge". You claim you want "further light and knowledge" but what you really mean is "I can't wait until women have the Priesthood".

As far as blessings go . . .what are you waiting for? Go give a faith blessing, no one is stopping you right now.

And please stop using terms like "we are better than that". It's insulting, intellectually dishonest and lazy. It is full of hubris. Instead, recognize that many people have thought long and hard (probably longer and harder than you) about complex issues and instead of using put-downs why not fight the intellectual battle.

I would never dream of demeaning my wife by assuming or claiming to be her leader. True I can't wait for women to have the priesthood, or better yet given a deeper understanding of the priesthood they already hold. I would absolutely love to get a blessing from my wife. I look forward to that day.

Feminist troll confirmed. Probably isn't even a member.

Are you calling me a troll?

I can assure you that my membership is as blue blooded and as well established as anyone elses here. Sorry if my views intimidate you.

I have more respect for the scientists who leave the faith than those who stay and try to change the meaning of scripture to fit the mold of atheistic science.