LDS Freedom Forum

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:01 pm ...Sorry if my views intimidate you.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm It has been an interesting few days on the forum. I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence. But that is simply not the church that I experience on a daily basis throughout my life. I really think it must come down to weakness and insecurity. Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings. I long for the day when we realize fully their potential and divine destiny. It does not intimidate me at all. That would indeed be weakness.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling. I am glad that we can look to the church and its investment in education to see that this isn't the standard for the church. Why are men so intimidated by science? That is simply weakness and insecurity also. Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world. The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing. I am glad that the brethren have been willing to speak out against it some recently. I am glad they remind us that we really are a global church and that we are all children of God.

Once again it is weakness and insecurity manifesting itself in all of these unflattering ways. We are better than that.

As a man, I'll respond.

First, I'm not a republican. I believe in the principles of the founding as seen through the lens of the Declaration of Independence, which is the spirit of our nation's Constitution. I am not affiliated with any party. Republicans are wrong a lot. Democrats are wrong a lot more.

Yes, I am weak, which is why I need a Savior.

I might be the head, but she's the heart. It's not a competition, it's a chorus. Why should women be taught to covet what they don't have? How is that righteous? Should men be coveting what God told women they are to do? With regards to women and the priesthood, I don't know enough about that subject to comment intelligently on it. I have no idea if God's plan includes women eventually receiving a priesthood ordination. I just know that it doesn't now. I also know that feeling settled on that fact doesn't put down women. I don't understand...seriously, this boggles my mind...why ANY woman would covet priesthood office. I'm a man with the potential to be a Bishop someday, and I DON'T want that. I'm not intimidated by women leaders. In fact, I WOULD PREFER IT, but who am I to counsel the Lord. It's His priesthood, not mine. Maybe, just maybe, men are ordained to the priesthood for a good reason.

I'm not anti-science, I'm anti science religion. The hubris in contemporary science is breathtaking. It's most alarming when it comes from within the church. Latter-day Saint scientists seem to be under the impression that prophetic teachings have to bend or break to their theories. Latter-day Saint scientists also seem to be oblivious to the fact that much of contemporary scientific theory is rooted in atheism and outright hostility toward God and religion. I don't understand why our scientists are so trusting of what they learn from people who hate God. If I traveled to Iran and was instructed by them about American history, what would I learn? Would their bias in any way affect what is taught? When an article talks about the age of a dinosaur as if the scientists actually KNOW the age of the dinosaur (which is almost always how they phrase it..."dumbdinosaurusrex LIVED 30,000,000 years ago...no debate...no question...just take our word for it, because the ground around the fossils dates that old). It's alarming how trusting people are of what they're told by scientists. I love science. I love REAL inquiry. I don't love the religion of science that excommunicates people with ideas that threaten the anti-God paradigm. And I don't love how condescending the intellectuals in the church are to people who don't have as many degrees as they have, and how they constantly try to bend or break the teachings of the prophets to fit their ideas.

It is a fact that forces are trying to bring the world into captivity. Most of us weren't alive during World War 2. Do you believe there was a Hitler? Do you believe there was a Gadianton? Do you believe we're in the last days? At what point do we finally accept that the threat is real?

RocknRoll wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:24 am It’s funny how most of the posts that came after the OP actually proved his point.

pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 3:06 pm The fact of the matter is, men are walking away from women. Men are beginning to ghost from a society that they perceive has no interest in them. Men as an organism...are "leaving the plantation" per se. They are called weak, in an attempt to keep them picking cotton. However, this shame tactic no longer carries any weight and they simply remove themselves from the equation. Governments know this, and it should be cause for concern. Nevertheless, it is called progressive and necessary. Birthrates plummet, women marry themselves, and society as a whole become inefficient. In turn, a vacuum is created. An we are left with with Horror Vacui "Nature abhors a vacuum." Nature seems to correct itself one way or another.

Dave62 wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 6:28 am "Why are weak men attracted to right wing politics?" The same reason that weak men are attracted to left wing politics. Ideology means that you don't have to think for yourself. Those who are weak minded or simple are easily attracted to the left and right because the catechisms of both do the thinking for you. It's just a matter of autonomy versus heteronomy versus theonomy. (Real men go for theonomy)

pho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 3:06 pm The fact of the matter is, men are walking away from women. Men are beginning to ghost from a society that they perceive has no interest in them. Men as an organism...are "leaving the plantation" per se. They are called weak, in an attempt to keep them picking cotton. However, this shame tactic no longer carries any weight and they simply remove themselves from the equation. Governments know this, and it should be cause for concern. Nevertheless, it is called progressive and necessary. Birthrates plummet, women marry themselves, and society as a whole become inefficient. In turn, a vacuum is created. An we are left with with Horror Vacui "Nature abhors a vacuum." Nature seems to correct itself one way or another.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm It has been an interesting few days on the forum. I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence. But that is simply not the church that I experience on a daily basis throughout my life. I really think it must come down to weakness and insecurity. Does it make us feel better, stronger, more manly to insist that a man is the leader that reigns in the home, church and society. Do we really need to put down women to puff ourselves up. I firmly look forward to the day that we receive further light and knowledge about women and the priesthood. I crave the day that they can once again give blessings. I long for the day when we realize fully their potential and divine destiny. It does not intimidate me at all. That would indeed be weakness.

I cannot fathom racism and even anti semitism that appears on this forum. That is clearly wrong.

The anti intellectualism and anti science stands also are mind boggling. I am glad that we can look to the church and its investment in education to see that this isn't the standard for the church. Why are men so intimidated by science? That is simply weakness and insecurity also. Why can't we just stand up in strength and accept all the beauty of the gospel and the world around us. Why do we have to bunker down worrying about spectre type forces trying to take over the world. The recent move towards nationalism in our country is deeply disturbing. I am glad that the brethren have been willing to speak out against it some recently. I am glad they remind us that we really are a global church and that we are all children of God.

Once again it is weakness and insecurity manifesting itself in all of these unflattering ways. We are better than that.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:04 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:00 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm Still trying to understand. Are men intimidated by women holding the priesthood? Do you have a problem with a hypothetical female bishop interviewing you, asking you about chastity etc? What is the problem here? I can think of many women in the ward who would make better leaders and bishops etc.

If that was the will of the lord I would follow. I would not have a problem. But it's not the will of the lord.

You mean it is not the will of the lord as you currently understand it. Or are you really presuming to dictate to the Lord what his will is and how he will forever interact with us in the future?

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence.

ajax wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 10:40 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence.

This is very charitable of you, and a great way to start a conversation, and immediately establishes yourself as a paragon of virtue, but is essentially meaningless since those words have been so watered down as to mean "anybody that doesn't agree with me"

justme wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 10:49 am

ajax wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 10:40 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence.

This is very charitable of you, and a great way to start a conversation, and immediately establishes yourself as a paragon of virtue, but is essentially meaningless since those words have been so watered down as to mean "anybody that doesn't agree with me"

Thanks for your input. And I agree with and accept your rebuke.
The post was a purposefully overreach to show where many of the threads that day had reached by turning them 180 degrees. Though I had seen that day specific instances of all the mentioned problems, I was mostly trying to get people to realize what they were saying. The follow up responses were telling. I did rightfully get rebuked by the moderators and apologized to them and to all. (But I'm not entirely wrong )

Stahura wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 11:19 am

justme wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 10:49 am

ajax wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 10:40 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:38 pm I have difficulty understanding the views of many on the forum. They seem to base their misogynistic, racist, anti scientific and anti intellectual views as part of their LDS existence.

This is very charitable of you, and a great way to start a conversation, and immediately establishes yourself as a paragon of virtue, but is essentially meaningless since those words have been so watered down as to mean "anybody that doesn't agree with me"

Thanks for your input. And I agree with and accept your rebuke.
The post was a purposefully overreach to show where many of the threads that day had reached by turning them 180 degrees. Though I had seen that day specific instances of all the mentioned problems, I was mostly trying to get people to realize what they were saying. The follow up responses were telling. I did rightfully get rebuked by the moderators and apologized to them and to all. (But I'm not entirely wrong )

I did that once, and it didn't go over well

braingrunt wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 11:15 am we could ask why depraved people are attracted to left wing politics.

I'm not totally wrong either.

Fiannan wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm Oh, just a clarification, there are different types of people under the "left" umbrella. Very often you will get highly empathetic, and often quite attractive, women to join animal rights and environmental causes. They do not do so in order to tear down the system but to make a better world. Their left-wing ideas are based more on idealism, which they usually grow out of once they get hit in the face with reality.

Sadly, their empathy often leads to nativity. This is why on college campuses you will get men who are absolutely less desirable than many of the females in these movements, to pretend to love animals or even be vegan to "get lucky" with some of these women. Maybe that is one part of the reality of human nature that dis-enchants them.

justme wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 2:12 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑May 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm Oh, just a clarification, there are different types of people under the "left" umbrella. Very often you will get highly empathetic, and often quite attractive, women to join animal rights and environmental causes. They do not do so in order to tear down the system but to make a better world. Their left-wing ideas are based more on idealism, which they usually grow out of once they get hit in the face with reality.

Sadly, their empathy often leads to nativity. This is why on college campuses you will get men who are absolutely less desirable than many of the females in these movements, to pretend to love animals or even be vegan to "get lucky" with some of these women. Maybe that is one part of the reality of human nature that dis-enchants them.

I don't think nativity is the word you were looking for. Otherwise the subject just became much more interesting.