LDS Freedom Forum

This is something I was thinking about with the current push for mandatory vaccines. How long until we have to take a hard line in the sand, and which event would trigger it? What would we be willing to sacrafice. I don't mean to ask for us as a people, but each of us individually.

I think lines for me would include:
mandatory vaccines
Disarming of civilians
Openly turning over the country to the chinese and russians
Having to wear a thought-reading device

And what would I be willing to give up? As long as I can live on my farm in peace then I'd be fine. However, if they have me give up my ability to have a job or something like that, that would be a hard pill to swallow as I have a family depending on me.

And how long do we have? I wonder if it's at the door. I also wonder if it will all blow over and there will be a reaction that causes them to have to wait. However, with the internet, I think people are only becoming more aware and preparing for the end of times. It's becoming a worse and worse environment for slowly rolling out the plan, like I think they wanted. So I think they have to speed it up.

It seems like we need to take over the city councils. It can't be by chance that city after city has these horrible programs. It is like they are all run by a giant invisible hand. If we can get regular people in the city councils then we can start making some cities actually livable, like helping the homeless instead of giving them free needles, having self sustaining homes and communities instead of the giant corporations and high density low property housing.

If just one city could get it right it could be replicated.

Hum...what planet you guys living on?

Cheetos wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:10 pm Hum...what planet you guys living on?

Still making fun of other members of the church for not believing and thinking the way you want them to I see? No doubt this is what Christ commanded his disciples to do?

With all the changes that have occurred in our society just with regard to the gays, etc., and abortion in the past two years, where will our society be two years from now? I can't even imagine.

And yet, we are not to the point of being persecuted yet, IMO. If you look at all the examples in the Book of Mormon where groups of people have fled, it is only after persecution begins and their lives are in danger. I think we still have a while to go.

lost ark wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:36 pm With all the changes that have occurred in our society just with regard to the gays, etc., and abortion in the past two years, where will our society be two years from now? I can't even imagine.

And yet, we are not to the point of being persecuted yet, IMO. If you look at all the examples in the Book of Mormon where groups of people have fled, it is only after persecution begins and their lives are in danger. I think we still have a while to go.

There haven't been any changes with regard to abortion in the last few years. It's legal, and the government pays for it, just like they have since the '70s. And sure, you can say that us Mormons aren't being persecuted - the trouble is, all the religious freedom that Americans like to brag about doesn't apply to someone whose religion includes not paying for anybody's abortions.

Destroying the church in America will not require anything that the average person would recognize as persecution. Babylon has got the bread-and-circuses thing down pretty well. As it stands, the majority of active Mormons are willing to allow their enemies to educate their children, either through sending them to bad schools or allowing them to consume endless media or some combination of the two. And the result is that, among other things, you have majority approval of the LGBT agenda among young Mormons.

As for the minority of Mormons who don't let their kids consume Babylon's propaganda, and who are choosy about their schools or who home-school, they've still got the problem that they are supporting a church hierarchy that, through the conceit of a temple recommend, is sustaining the aforementioned majority in the illusion that their lifestyle is pleasing to God. And then there is the fact that, as long as you make enough money to pay income taxes, you are still paying for someone else's abortions, and for all those undeclared wars, and for the schools that drug children into submission and indoctrinate them with Planned Parenthood pep-talks, white privilege bracelets, and Genderbread Man.

Perhaps the reason that Babylon's rulers never try to stop us from going to Church, and never try to take away our guns, is because we are already giving them the things they really want.

I think the time to flee Babylon is now. I'm not sure how to do it, or where to flee to, but those are decisions I have got to make before I start a family of my own. And I admit that the best way to disconnect yourself from the system will vary from person to person.

I do not, personally, plan to become just another contributing member of society and feed more money and children into the system that has devoured so many of my childhood companions.

As for the prospect of raising another generation of rule-following Mormons in the confidence that things will work out in the end? To hell with that. The church in America is too mainstream, and the mainstream is flowing in the wrong direction.

lost ark wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:36 pm With all the changes that have occurred in our society just with regard to the gays, etc., and abortion in the past two years, where will our society be two years from now? I can't even imagine.

And yet, we are not to the point of being persecuted yet, IMO. If you look at all the examples in the Book of Mormon where groups of people have fled, it is only after persecution begins and their lives are in danger. I think we still have a while to go.

-------------
it's at the door

Cheetos wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:10 pm Hum...what planet you guys living on?

The same one you buried your head in....

Wake up, bro.

lost ark wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:36 pm With all the changes that have occurred in our society just with regard to the gays, etc., and abortion in the past two years, where will our society be two years from now? I can't even imagine.

And yet, we are not to the point of being persecuted yet, IMO. If you look at all the examples in the Book of Mormon where groups of people have fled, it is only after persecution begins and their lives are in danger. I think we still have a while to go.

It could happen quickly. Trump gets reelected in 1.5 years, conservative "Easter worshipers" get blamed by fanatical leftists, this church gets singled out, and we could see a great deal of persecution build in a couple of weeks. It won't be nationwide all at once, but will be particularly bad in far-left states and larger inland cities.

I don’t think we will flee again. I think we’re supposed to stay and stand tall. Jeffrey R Holland talked about this in his talk; Israel, Israel, God is Calling. He says we can no longer flee to Zion, but we have to make Zion wherever we are. I hope and pray more people in the church open their eyes to vaccines and the numbers against this attack on medical and religious freedom grow and unite. There might be a time we do have to gather in our areas and defend ourselves and our children like the pioneer members did, but I don’t believe we will be called to leave the promised land.

KNC wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 10:13 pm I don’t think we will flee again. I think we’re supposed to stay and stand tall. Jeffrey R Holland talked about this in his talk; Israel, Israel, God is Calling. He says we can no longer flee to Zion, but we have to make Zion wherever we are. I hope and pray more people in the church open their eyes to vaccines and the numbers against this attack on medical and religious freedom grow and unite. There might be a time we do have to gather in our areas and defend ourselves and our children like the pioneer members did, but I don’t believe we will be called to leave the promised land.

He mentioned how we are now mature enough to stand and fight. It was a powerful talk.

Having to wear a thought-reading device

You cannot flee Babylon in the physical sense. The only way to flee Babylon today is to reject the ideology and sinfulness of the world and live the higher law of covenants with the Lord. You can still work a respected, high paying job and be a good and worthy member of society while keeping temple covenants and being the salt of the Earth. You can't just run into a hole in the mountain and watch the world burn and think you are fleeing Babylon.

thestock wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 6:25 am You can still work a respected, high paying job and be a good and worthy member of society while keeping temple covenants and being the salt of the Earth. You can't just run into a hole in the mountain and watch the world burn and think you are fleeing Babylon.

What do you think the Apostle John was talking about when he said that only those who had the Mark of the Beast would be able to buy or sell? I think it means some sort of commercial disengagement from the surrounding society will be necessary.

In any case, the idea that you will always be able to work a high paying job, while being true to your faith, is very dangerous. Any serious faith will, from time to time, require the sacrifice of one's money/opportunity to make money.

The scriptures provide plenty of examples of people who were reduced to living in a hole in the mountain.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 6:44 am

thestock wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 6:25 am You can still work a respected, high paying job and be a good and worthy member of society while keeping temple covenants and being the salt of the Earth. You can't just run into a hole in the mountain and watch the world burn and think you are fleeing Babylon.

What do you think the Apostle John was talking about when he said that only those who had the Mark of the Beast would be able to buy or sell? I think it means some sort of commercial disengagement from the surrounding society will be necessary.

In any case, the idea that you will always be able to work a high paying job, while being true to your faith, is very dangerous. Any serious faith will, from time to time, require the sacrifice of one's money/opportunity to make money.

The scriptures provide plenty of examples of people who were reduced to living in a hole in the mountain.

Hey man if that's what you want to believe, then go right ahead. God's kingdom progresses with good and faithful people that lift society up....hard to build the Kingdom of God on the Earth as a hermit in a cave. As for the Mark of the beast....well....what do you think you've been using every time you bust open your wallet to pay for a soda?

Physically there is no where left to flee to. I hear Utah is just as bad if not worse in some regards, some of you could set the record straight on that. I do know they have the same propaganda machines that feed the rest of us (government schools, media, etc).

AnEnemyHathDoneThis wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 6:55 am Physically there is no where left to flee to. I hear Utah is just as bad if not worse in some regards, some of you could set the record straight on that. I do know they have the same propaganda machines that feed the rest of us (government schools, media, etc).

Utah is quite interesting. On the one hand you have very dedicated saints who survive through things and on the other hand some of the most wicked people in the country. And, to mix things all up, a great diversity of all types and races have settled there.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 5:36 pm

lost ark wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 3:36 pm With all the changes that have occurred in our society just with regard to the gays, etc., and abortion in the past two years, where will our society be two years from now? I can't even imagine.

And yet, we are not to the point of being persecuted yet, IMO. If you look at all the examples in the Book of Mormon where groups of people have fled, it is only after persecution begins and their lives are in danger. I think we still have a while to go.

There haven't been any changes with regard to abortion in the last few years. It's legal, and the government pays for it, just like they have since the '70s. And sure, you can say that us Mormons aren't being persecuted - the trouble is, all the religious freedom that Americans like to brag about doesn't apply to someone whose religion includes not paying for anybody's abortions.

Destroying the church in America will not require anything that the average person would recognize as persecution. Babylon has got the bread-and-circuses thing down pretty well. As it stands, the majority of active Mormons are willing to allow their enemies to educate their children, either through sending them to bad schools or allowing them to consume endless media or some combination of the two. And the result is that, among other things, you have majority approval of the LGBT agenda among young Mormons.

As for the minority of Mormons who don't let their kids consume Babylon's propaganda, and who are choosy about their schools or who home-school, they've still got the problem that they are supporting a church hierarchy that, through the conceit of a temple recommend, is sustaining the aforementioned majority in the illusion that their lifestyle is pleasing to God. And then there is the fact that, as long as you make enough money to pay income taxes, you are still paying for someone else's abortions, and for all those undeclared wars, and for the schools that drug children into submission and indoctrinate them with Planned Parenthood pep-talks, white privilege bracelets, and Genderbread Man.

Perhaps the reason that Babylon's rulers never try to stop us from going to Church, and never try to take away our guns, is because we are already giving them the things they really want.

I think the time to flee Babylon is now. I'm not sure how to do it, or where to flee to, but those are decisions I have got to make before I start a family of my own. And I admit that the best way to disconnect yourself from the system will vary from person to person.

I do not, personally, plan to become just another contributing member of society and feed more money and children into the system that has devoured so many of my childhood companions.

As for the prospect of raising another generation of rule-following Mormons in the confidence that things will work out in the end? To hell with that. The church in America is too mainstream, and the mainstream is flowing in the wrong direction.

Well, I guess I have to disagree with you a bit.

I maintain there have been a lot of changes to abortion in the past two years. Now the ability to murder an unborn baby right up to the moment of birth, and even in some place after birth, is becoming more widespread in this country. The gays, etc., are becoming ever more open and infiltrating schools even more. Some states are teaching these perversions and indoctrinating elementary school children with porn. In two more years, I can't even imagine how much worse it will be.

Persecution is an active thing that the victims consciously feel and experience. It is not something victims are oblivious to.

Yes, most members still send their kids to government schools and let them waste their days in endless media drivel. Most mothers say they can't wait for vacation to end so they can send their children back to school.

Yes, unfortunately, we still have to pay taxes. Would it be better for us to not pay our taxes, end up in prison, and have our daughters taken by the government and placed in foster care? For years we didn't actually pay income taxes, because my husband's income was low enough and we had enough children to maximize the exemptions. but eventually they grow up and so do we, and we're past child-bearing age now.

Are you better because you are refusing to marry and start a family in such a wicked society? Elder Rasband had a talk about that one or two conferences ago. You're letting Satan win by refusing to raise up a righteous generation.

Yeah, there are a whole lot of unrighteous members. We see them at church every week. We spent five years in a ward in Missouri where the members were, obviously, quite righteous because they were so wealthy. I spent the first month or so crying, because the hymn books matched, the lesson manuals matched, the name on the building matched, but there was nothing in common with the Church organization and culture we had known in the west.

I worried about it for a while, but our children were very discerning. When we walked into the Halloween party and encountered five year old casino showgirls and pole dancers, they recognized it for what it was. They see it now. They are bothered and ask questions, but their testimonies are solid. They study their scriptures independently, without coercion from their parents, and they come to me with sincere questions. One daughter refuses to attend our early morning seminary because she wants nothing to do with the youth in our stake. Instead, she is doing it online, and it requires a whole lot more time. All the other kids just have to darken the doorway before the closing prayer ends, and they get full credit.

It does not matter what the leaders do. It's the Lord's church, and He will take care of it. He will even give people enough rope to hang themselves, if that is what they wish. My job is to worry about me and my progress, and teaching my children well.

And back to the fleeing from Babylon: It will come. That is what has been prophesied and is the pattern of history. In the meantime, as we are preparing spiritually, we also prepare temporally. People make very poor decisions when they are cold, hungry, sick, and/or tired, decisions that can affect them spiritually.

PrepSchoolDaily.blogspot.com

Do you feel that we need to be taking steps right now? What steps are you taking to prepare to flee Babylon or how do you plan to deal with it if you do not believe we will ever flee?

Babylon can also be a state of mind. A person can be in a tavern and have their mind on righteousness, or they can be in the temple and thinking all manner of evil. We must strive to know what is going on and then discern. My children cannot watch TV news without mocking it. They have no trust in it. That is what we must strive for, though it is hard. We have to make sure children, teens, adults of all ages can recognize evil even when it has a pretty face on it on TV. Many members strive to be cookie-cutter cut-outs of proper middle class American consumers. That is why if you point out an aspect of the Gospel a bit more deeper than they are used to and they think you are crazy. Members today believe that to be a good Mormon means you wear a white shirt, condemn porn, mock Trump as not being righteous, avoid body piercings and tattoos, and brag about your callings and you are celestial material.

Why would the "saints" be persecuted for being/ not being vaccinated when the majority and all the leaders go along with it. Why would there be persecutions for the LGBTQ agenda when the majority of the leaders and members go along with that. Anytime any controversy comes up in conflict with popular opinion and the Federal Government, the church has caved to "Babylon" on everything, and will continue to cave.
If you want persecution, or rather if we would live the fulness of the Gospel, that would bring about the wrath of the devil inspired masses against us. But as it is now when Babylon says "jump" we immediately say "how high".
"The Horn made war with the saints and prevailed", and that happened over 120 years ago. We are and have been suffering the consequences ever since. Look at us today, we are completely immersed into Babylon, we are drunk with the spirit of Babylon. We are turning into sodomites, "and love to have it so".
There are a few grumblers, a few that do not compromise, but notice that the persecution that they receive comes from their own brethren. We are at the same similar stage as when the Saviour was here on earth. The majority rejected Him. Sure, we love to talk about Him and love to think that we love Him, but we refuse to live His commandments. And the main one is to "love one another" and truly become "one". Just look at us right now, extremely rich and extremely poor. And yet we call each other brother and sister.
I know that if we would start or implement the Law of Consecration right now among us, that would bring the wrath of the world/ Babylon upon us immediately. So if you want persecution do that.
After all that was the law that Joseph tried to get the people to live but most failed... Its in the D&C and in the early history of the church. And I think that is the main reason we are still under condemnation.

harakim wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 9:10 am Do you feel that we need to be taking steps right now? What steps are you taking to prepare to flee Babylon or how do you plan to deal with it if you do not believe we will ever flee?

I hope I'm not being presumptuous here, but I'll assume your question was directed to me.

Of course, I think we should be taking steps right now, every day. There are skills to learn and supplies to acquire.

Personally, I believe my family will be fleeing at some point. I'm not convinced that all the righteous will flee. Throughout the scriptures, there are accounts of those righteous people, even prophets, who did not flee but were taken into captivity. And there are lots of accounts of righteous who do flee. I believe there is a lot of fleeing that is going to happen in America. I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

If we don't ever flee, that's fine with me, too. I'd be perfectly content to sit out on my deck overlooking our desert valley with a bowl of popcorn and some lemonade. And I really like my bed, too.

But my family and I prepare to flee. (Staying in place doesn't require much preparation.) My sphere of responsibility is food and medicine. In my observation as food storage/emergency prep person in two different wards and stakes, is that the vast majority of those who do store do not know how to prepare it. And they don't want to learn, because in their experience it is all bad. A good friend who is he emergency prep person for her stake often has women asking her how to boil water. The women just don't know even the basics of cooking.

My children and I are a bit irritable on fast Sunday, when we all know we'll be eating soon and have good food to eat. I can't imagine not being able to feed my family well in a crisis. Hungry people are really cranky and make very poor decisions. And they can be tempted by Babylon.

So I spend some time each week learning how to use food storage, and then writing posts up for my blog so that my children and friends can learn as well, if they wish. Most people will be eating burned beans and rice while we have hamburgers, French fries (way better than McDonald's), and apple pie. All from food storage.

I spent some time testing whether coconut oil could, in fact, be substituted for butter in cooking and baking. Coconut oil has a shelf life of at least five years, if stored properly. It's much cheaper than commercially canned butter or dehydrated butter, and sometimes even cheaper than regular butter at the grocery store. I even tested whether it would substitute for butter in Magic Mix, which is used to make cream of chicken, tomato, celery, mushroom soups, among other things. Most people would say I've gone way overboard on this, but I know how critical good food is to morale.

I also spend time studying medicine, conventional and alternative, and acquiring those supplies. I have no intention of becoming a doctor or a nurse. I don't think there's time, and I don't have the money. But I have taken three different emergency medicine courses from two different ER doctors and an herbalist who want to prepare people for the difficulties that lie ahead. Their belief is that lay people can learn to treat a lot of common problems. So I learn about herbs and dry them and make tinctures and ointments and teas from them, focusing on those plants that grow in my area. For the past two months I've been focusing on bugs--lice, bedbugs, scabies, ticks, spiders, mosquitoes, etc.--and learning how to identify them, prevent them, treat their bites.

It's probably a whole lot more than what you were asking. Sorry about that. But if you're curious, the blog is PrepSchoolDaily.blogspot.com. And you can ask questions if something is unclear or you want more info. I'm happy to research and answer. It's how I learn.

lost ark wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 11:12 am

harakim wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 9:10 am Do you feel that we need to be taking steps right now? What steps are you taking to prepare to flee Babylon or how do you plan to deal with it if you do not believe we will ever flee?

Personally, I believe my family will be fleeing at some point. I'm not convinced that all the righteous will flee. Throughout the scriptures, there are accounts of those righteous people, even prophets, who did not flee but were taken into captivity. And there are lots of accounts of righteous who do flee. I believe there is a lot of fleeing that is going to happen in America. I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

Thanks for your complete answer. This question was directed at everyone, including you.

Where are you going to flee to? Canada? Mexico? Venezuela? The world will be in commotion.

shadow wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 11:29 am Where are you going to flee to? Canada? Mexico? Venezuela? The world will be in commotion.

they are going to pack a mule and flee into the desert.