LDS Freedom Forum

"How Long Until We Have to Flee Babylon"

Once commercial spacecraft is produced and perfected, then people can flee babylon, but they must be very righteous and Zion minded in both heart and soul. We wouldn't want to spread wickedness across the universe or perpetuate the Babylon mindset, right?.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:47 pm "How Long Until We Have to Flee Babylon"

Once commercial spacecraft is produced and perfected, then people can flee babylon, but they must be very righteous and Zion minded in both heart and soul. We wouldn't want to spread wickedness across the universe or perpetuate the Babylon mindset, right?.

But you are forgetting Joseph Fielding Smith's teaching that man will never make it to the moon since space travel is akin to the building of the tower of babel.

oh wait...

lost ark wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 8:11 pm I wonder if perhaps some of the miscommunication or misunderstanding regarding fleeing Babylon has to do with individual definitions of "fleeing Babylon."

Like I mentioned before, there are numerous accounts in the Book of Mormon of a group of righteous people fleeing from the wicked who are persecuting them. Because I know the Book of Mormon was written for us in our day, I firmly believe there will be groups of righteous people fleeing again from wickedness.

How do others define "fleeing Babylon"?

To me it is to recognize Babylon in the world now, and avoiding or extricating ourselves and our families from it. It may be a literal fleeing, or it may be an ideological separation.

justme wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 11:39 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:47 pm "How Long Until We Have to Flee Babylon"

Once commercial spacecraft is produced and perfected, then people can flee babylon, but they must be very righteous and Zion minded in both heart and soul. We wouldn't want to spread wickedness across the universe or perpetuate the Babylon mindset, right?.

But you are forgetting Joseph Fielding Smith's teaching that man will never make it to the moon since space travel is akin to the building of the tower of babel.

oh wait...

We're accustomed to having sources accompanying quotes and other references. Please provide the source for yours.

harakim wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:16 pm What I'm talking about is when you can't work anymore. You can't participate (without breaking your morals.)

I think this is already happening - certainly in the United States. Work a high paying job, and make enough money to make enough money to pay income tax, and you are paying for Planned Parenthood, various undeclared wars, the world's largest prison system, and a whole host of other human rights abuses.

If paying for that isn't breaking your morals, then what will break your morals? When you have to participate personally? What if Babylon is content for you to just pay for it while someone else does the dirty work? It's a good strategy for getting things done - it's worked pretty well for them so far.

I don't mean to condemn anyone for continuing to live in this country and pay taxes - I really believe that most of us are making a valid utilitarian calculation when we conclude that the good we are able to do with the portion of our salary we keep (whether in charitable giving, educating our children, or whatever) exceeds that evil that Uncle Sam does with his portion. But we all need to be aware of the slippery slope. Everyone's morals are compromised to some degree.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:47 pm "How Long Until We Have to Flee Babylon"

Once commercial spacecraft is produced and perfected, then people can flee babylon, but they must be very righteous and Zion minded in both heart and soul. We wouldn't want to spread wickedness across the universe or perpetuate the Babylon mindset, right?.

I have often contemplated whether there will be some future time when the righteous flee to outer space.

On the one hand, I believe that a Zion Society is the only type could exist on, for instance, Mars. The environment is so harsh that nothing but constant, communal work, free from any jealousy or hope for personal gain, could keep the people alive. Furthermore, there can't be any discord - if one angry person opens the air valve, it's over for the colony.

On the other hand, spacecraft are expensive. Just look at SpaceX and Boeing's attempts to build spacecraft that will take seven people into low earth orbit for a few days. They've taken twice as long to build as they're supposed to and they still aren't ready to fly, and the whole program hast cost billions of dollars.

Now image building a spacecraft that can take a hundred people to Mars and support them with local resources for years and years. It would be a hundred times more complicated. Who could afford it? The super rich and the super powerful - if they get really lucky.

Not the kind of people who are going to need to flee to Zion.

We have until a viable alternative threatens the political, ideological, and economic structure of Babylon. There have been solutions presented, technologies invented, and ideas tried that would have brought about The Zion of our God, but the participants were not willing to have it.

When there are enough people who pray and ask God for it, putting in their effort, and humbling their hearts, then He will bring about the redemption of Zion by power and great glory. Then we will of everlasting necessity have to choose and remain committed to either Babylon or Zion. I would think that it would be easier and better if we were to choose now before that great and marvelous (and dreadful) point arrives.

I hope I can and do choose wisely. Unfortunately is is very difficult if you think that you are the only one in the world choosing the cause of Zion.

gkearney wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 12:31 pm Just where is anyone going to flee to?

Stockpile & shelter in place, ‘till things settle out.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 2:38 am

justme wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 11:39 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 8:47 pm "How Long Until We Have to Flee Babylon"

Once commercial spacecraft is produced and perfected, then people can flee babylon, but they must be very righteous and Zion minded in both heart and soul. We wouldn't want to spread wickedness across the universe or perpetuate the Babylon mindset, right?.

But you are forgetting Joseph Fielding Smith's teaching that man will never make it to the moon since space travel is akin to the building of the tower of babel.

oh wait...

We're accustomed to having sources accompanying quotes and other references. Please provide the source for yours.

I'm sorry, I will look that up. I thought his teaching was well enough known, maybe just not to the younger generations.

I remember thinking it must have been bogus myself until I heard the audio of the talk.

Here is just one of several

A few years later, at a Honolulu stake conference in 1961, Elder Smith reiterated this idea,

"We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it. The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen. "

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Morm ... n_the_Moon

harakim wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 2:09 pm And how long do we have? I wonder if it's at the door.

In my opinion, It is past time to flee spiritual babylon. But this is a slight misunderstanding of your question. Though I still find it useful to say

I don't think there will be an obvious defining event but you can know when it's close by keeping your spiritual eyes open. When the big defining events happen it will probably too late to prepare, or relocate. The parable of the 10 virgins comes to mind. Stay close to the spirit, I don't think President Nelson is kidding when he uses quotes like

...In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe...